SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 17 Spoiler Discussion

[LicoriceAllsorts]

If nothing else, SE have given us plenty of fodder to happily dissect and analyse and generally keep us sustained until the next installment comes out. That's very thoughtful of them.

 

[Odysseus]

Can't let the hype train stop or people get off.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I am saved in a room in the Drum with a bench and a vending machine with Aerith, Cloud, Tifa. Sleepy but so many thoughts I really felt a twinge here-

"I'm not a rat dog" Red XIII ?

 

[Shademp]

While my scanner may not be the best, at least I can provide some good zoom-in pictures of the painting by Ifalna and Aerith.

From FFVIIR World Preview:
- Page 118
- Page 128

 

[Wol]

The painting reminds me of the one done by Amano for FFXV, where you see the moon "spawning" all the monsters and summons; here the planet is the source of all life.

 

[Odysseus]

Is that meteor headed for the Planet in the center? Or maybe Jenova?

 

[Dark and Divine]

Is that meteor headed for the Planet in the center? Or maybe Jenova?

Or maybe both, Jenova being the red comet and Meteor being that huge orange meteor

 

[Mayo Master]

Alright, penultimate chapter impressions before I move on to the thread of DOOM (and Destiny)...

- I liked the Drum as a dungeon, that was pretty neat. It was cool to switch party members, and you gotta love Red's animations to pull the levers! One thing I really enjoyed in this dungeon is once again how Square manage to bring to life some very silly monster designs (brain pod, swordipede... and that Sledgeworm fight that was a really game of whack-a-mole!) in a manner that felt so well-integrated in the setting. To me that's one of the very strong points of this game overall.
- The trail of blood doesn't give the same feeling when it looks like alien purple goo. In the OG, you feel like it's a carnage that Jenova had left in its wake. Here, it looks more like Jenova itself made a mess when escaping.
- I really didn't like the whole scene with Barret rescuing President Shinra from his predicament, only to be fooled 10 seconds later, Sephiroth stabbing Barret only for the Whisperers of fate to nullify it... IMO this whole scene doesn't do any service to any character and doesn't serve the story either. I can't find anything redeemable in that scene. The OG version where you just find the President impaled by Sephiroth's sword and Barret feels like somebody beat him to confronting him works way better.
- I really liked the boss fight vs Jenova Dreamweaver. I got some vibes from the Broodmother boss fight from Dragon Age Origins
- Badass points to Rufus, I really enjoyed his intro. That was great. The boss fight was tough, but yeah, in the end you had to wait for the moment where he reloads his gun to have at him.
- I was also happy about the fight vs the Arsenal. A rather challenging one, at that.
- I was so happy they had kept the dialogue where Barret, Aerith and Red XIII introduce themselves as "Avalanche!", "Local florist!", "Lab-rat dog!" - I didn't mind it was with Heidegger rather than Rufus. It was great.
- I was thrilled with the escape from the Shinra building. My spouse and my friend were amazed at the sturdiness of the sa-37 truck, actually. I really liked that part in the OG and I was really happy with how they had it remade. I also enjoyed that the Motorball boss fight ended up as part of the motorbike chase. What did surprise me was that Roche was nowhere to be found. I was so sure he'd show up in this sequence. Oh well.
- Overall I was surprised that so many plot points were already introduced in the game. Namely, it's quite a change to already know that Jenova was the great calamity.
- Overall, I'm not thrilled with the plot changes brought about by the Whisperers, and that they're some kind of Arbitrator of Destiny. They're literal 'Plot devices' floating around. Bleh.

There's good stuff in this chapter, but overall I'm still disappointed with the Whisperers, because I feel like they're not adding to the story. They just make things unnecessarily convoluted, IMO. Personally, I feel like Square could have just easily decided to change or not change anything to the story without having to make the insertion of a plot device to justify it. But I guess there's more to be said about that in the final chapter...

 

[ForceStealer]

I liked the Drum as a dungeon, that was pretty neat. It was cool to switch party members

I loved that the party-switching stations were "PHS Terminals"

 

[LNK]

While my scanner may not be the best, at least I can provide some good zoom-in pictures of the painting by Ifalna and Aerith.

From FFVIIR World Preview:
- Page 118
- Page 128

I'm glad that was included in the book. Once I saw that in the game, I knew I wanted to paint it! Looks like I'll just have to wait till I get mine.

I can't wait to find out how connected that mural is to future parts of the remake

 

[Shademp]

As someone pointed out earlier, it's easy to imagine that the lower parts of the painting were mostly done by Aerith and that the upper parts were done by Ifalna, with some exceptions. I find it interesting then that child Aerith appears to have channeled an image of Marlene. Or at least that's my interpretation.



Brown eyes and brown hair, like Marlene. The light-blue dress evokes Marlene's Advent Children outfit (which is white-grey-ish, but appears light blue in certain lighting). So if this interpretation is correct, the supernatural connection between Aerith and Marlene indeed transcends time and space, even if only in this case as a premonition.

There are also what appears to be big raindrops that Marlene is looking at. A vague premonition of the rain that heals those with Geostigma?


Next to what is presumably a re-imagined version of Bugenhagen's observatory, we see a pagoda.



I reckon this is an additional hint to the player that a visit to Wutai will be obligatory in the FFVII Remake series, which makes sense given the heightened role Wutai has been given in the peripheries of the main story. Since it makes sense both story-wise and design-wise to make Yuffie an obligatory party member, this also adds a motivator to rewrite FFVII in such a way that Wutai becomes an obligatory place to visit.

 

[Odysseus]

New head-canon: Ifalna was a famous artist before being captured.

 

[LNK]

As someone pointed out earlier, it's easy to imagine that the lower parts of the painting were mostly done by Aerith and that the upper parts were done by Ifalna, with some exceptions. I find it interesting then that child Aerith appears to have channeled an image of Marlene. Or at least that's my interpretation.

View attachment 5755

Brown eyes and brown hair, like Marlene. The light-blue dress evokes Marlene's Advent Children outfit (which is white-grey-ish, but appears light blue in certain lighting). So if this interpretation is correct, the supernatural connection between Aerith and Marlene indeed transcends time and space, even if only in this case as a premonition.

There are also what appears to be big raindrops that Marlene is looking at. A vague premonition of the rain that heals those with Geostigma?


Next to what is presumably a re-imagined version of Bugenhagen's observatory, we see a pagoda.

View attachment 5756

I reckon this is an additional hint to the player that a visit to Wutai will be obligatory in the FFVII Remake series, which makes sense given the heightened role Wutai has been given in the peripheries of the main story. Since it makes sense both story-wise and design-wise to make Yuffie an obligatory party member, this also adds a motivator to rewrite FFVII in such a way that Wutai becomes an obligatory place to visit.

I like what you said about that potentially being Marlene. It would make sense with what we know of AC. I wonder if we'll see more of that in the future, or if it'll just be an easter egg.

At first I thought that was just the Ancient Temple. I think @Erotic Materia first said it could be Bugenhagen's observatory. I wasn't convinced. But after you posting a zoomed in picture, I agree with you guys more.

That's also really cool that you noticed a pagoda!

Damn, I can't wait to get the book so I can really get into that mural. That was definitely one of my favorite things about the remake. There's so much meat to the painting, once you really dig into it

 

[Fangu]

This chapter is way too long. That is all.

 

[Makoeyes987]

This chapter is way too long. That is all.

You will ride the entirety of Hojo's House of 1000 Horrors amusement park ride and LIKE IT!

 

[Odysseus]

I know it was replaced by the scene in Aerith's room, but I'm surprised they removed the prison section. Maybe it's just me. But I always saw that as one of VII's iconic moments. Also took out Rude and Tseng ambushing you in the elevator because of that.

 

[Theozilla]

While my scanner may not be the best, at least I can provide some good zoom-in pictures of the painting by Ifalna and Aerith.

From FFVIIR World Preview:
- Page 118
- Page 128

So who are these three beings (plus the peacock) out of curiosity?

 

[Clean Cut Chaos]

peacock is Phoenix?

I didn't really care if remake had a photo mode or not, but after seeing all the detail I really wish there was a way to get Cloud out the damn way so I can seeeeeee

 

[LNK]

So who are these three beings (plus the peacock) out of curiosity?
View attachment 5759

My guess was Phoenix, Bahamut and Leviathan (matches the colors of Aerith's bracelets) Or they could be different variations of Bahamut

Not sure about the peacock though

 

[Theozilla]

My guess was Phoenix, Bahamut and Leviathan (matches the colors of Aerith's bracelets) Or they could be different variations of Bahamut

Not sure about the peacock though

Which ones do you think are supposed to be Phoenix and Bahamut (I assume the dark right one is supposed to be Leviathan)?
Because the left one with the unicorn horn I don't think matches any previous depictions of Bahamut or Phoenix in the FF franchise?

 

[LNK]

The purple/black figure next to the peacock, could also symbolize Sephiroth

 

[LNK]

Which ones do you think are supposed to be Phoenix and Bahamut (I assume the dark right one is supposed to be Leviathan)?
Because the left one with the unicorn horn I don't think matches any previous depictions of Bahamut or Phoenix in the FF franchise?

I agree that the unicorn looking one, doesn't look like past depictions of Bahamut, but besides the longer horn, it still could be. And I thought the figure below the sun? was Leviathan. The one in the middle, Phoenix

 

[Theozilla]

I agree that the unicorn looking one, doesn't look like past depictions of Bahamut, but besides the longer horn, it still could be. And I thought the figure below the sun? was Leviathan. The one in the middle, Phoenix

So you don’t think the black/purple snake is representing Leviathan then?

 

[LNK]

So you don’t think the black/purple snake is representing Leviathan then?

I think it could be. But then what would the one below the sun be?

 

[Theozilla]

I think it could be. But then what would the one below the sun be?

I don’t think I have seen/recognized the one below the sun?