SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

Odysseus

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
The Mad King said:
Upon this revelation he cracked open a cold one and said "Ya know, if I hijack that motherfucker my whole plan is gonna involve way fewer risks and take a lot less time."
Click to expand...
I... I think I might draw this.

And you're right, I saw on reddit people peddling this conspiracy that all the scenes with the gold rain from the dead whispers were actually an alternate reality because there's no gold rain when we see the party. No, guys, there's no gold rain around the party because they aren't in Midgar. The Whispers were flying around Midgar!
 
oty

oty

Pro Adventurer
AKA
ex-soldier boy
I mean...yeah. I completely agree that they may use that as a in-game explanation of the events, and really stick its course close to the original, but to the players, it holds a lot of meaning. It's just too much of a nudge towards us. Thats actually the part that I like in an otherwise very messy chapter. It's meta af. And being meta is bold and crazy. Few developers are crazy enough to do that, and some are revered because of it.
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
On another note, I want to say something about the final battle.

One aspect I think cannot be overstated is what a critical factor Aerith's presence was. She's the low-key cornerstone that rallied the confidence and strength of everyone to tackle a final boss at the start of the journey here. If she had not been present to offer her knowledge, guidance and support, I do believe the party would have all been dead. And I believe Sephiroth greatly underestimated her importance and potential to swing the battle with her power of positivity.

"He's tough."-Cloud

"Yeah, so what? Screw him." -Aerith

That was just. The best exchange to me :monster:

Cloud was diggin' deep, trying to tap into his inner level 99 potential early, yet for all of his impressive Advent Children-esque abilities, none of them were able to stick mono-a-mono. Cloud wasn't hanging with Sephiroth one-on-one here. Not just because Sephiroth was toying with him, but because Cloud was too weak; he could not even open up Sephiroth a little bit. Let alone close the fight. Aerith had to save Cloud during the first duel, and it was only with their combined effort they were able to deal enough damage to press Sephiroth a little.

And when Sephiroth finally perfect-play'd their abilities and turned the tables, he was once again thwarted by Tifa. Everyone together felt bold enough to take on an enemy that should have conceivably made them wet their pants. This is an anomaly that Sephiroth was certainly not expecting.

The fact he decided to go "fuck it, y'all can eat a Meteor now, I'm done with this" was essentially him trying to end the nonsense as it spun out of his control.

And the final duel between Cloud and Sephiroth didn't go as it was supposed to. Because Cloud simply wasn't strong enough. He started strong but Sephiroth was merely amusing himself. Sephiroth seemed bemused; testing him because he did not consider Cloud strong enough to fight on the level that he did. So in essence, Sephiroth sparred with him before requesting his help.

I also have the theory that with each vision/glimpse/memory the characters saw of the future, they unlocked a portion of their memory connected to the skill they would have later on in the story. Cloud and the others got increasingly stronger with each of the Whispers they defeated, and I can't help but imagine that those visions they received may have unlocked their own inner strength. Cloud seeing a glimpse of his duel with Sephiroth in the Lifestream, had to have imparted something to Cloud.

On another note, nothing felt as satisfying as having Cloud end the final battle by yelling "Let's dance, asshole" as he proceeded to use Ascension to tear Sephiroth's ass open as he floated, counting down to Meteor

That was... :yass:
 
Odysseus

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
Man, I never heard "Let's dance, asshole" because I just stuck with the Hard Edge after getting it. It looks cool, sue me.
why didn't the hardy Daytona figure come with it?

I wanted to add, I loved how weak the final boss made me feel. Maybe its just because I suck at the game, but I was basically doing chip damage to Sephiroth the whole time and just very slowly wearing him down. He really steps up his game as Tifa and Barret get involved, too. Whenever I needed to heal, I had to switch to a different character so Sephiroth would beat the shit out of them instead while the other character healed. The fight was this chaotic mess where I was constantly swapping characters to distract him while performing various actions. Its like all of the characters were grossly unprepared to take him on, but they beat him back anyway because of
hqdefault.jpg


I dunno, it was good. I liked it. I had so much fun with the fight I couldn't even be mad at the weird plot nonsense, and then seeing Biggs alive I was fucking ecstatic. Good times.
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
The Twilight Mexican

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Makoeyes987 said:
This is an anomaly that Sephiroth was certainly not expecting.
Click to expand...

t9DIawC.jpg

gSDzaAF.jpg

1fpFD4r.jpg

Ap1Vj4D.jpg

mnuEmEv.jpg


Dude doesn't even try to lift his sword to defend himself. It's even still in the same position in the shot where Cloud's sword is connecting. Seph just smiles and allows Cloud to land a completely ineffective blow, and then proceeds to humiliate him.

I will never understand how any of you guys are seeing this entire fight sequence as anything other than Sephiroth amusing himself at their expense. What am I missing?

Like, seriously, Mako, how do these two thoroughly contradictory paragraphs end up next to each other?:

Mako said:
The fact he decided to go "fuck it, y'all can eat a Meteor now, I'm done with this" was essentially him trying to end the nonsense as it spun out of his control.

And the final duel between Cloud and Sephiroth didn't go as it was supposed to. Because Cloud simply wasn't strong enough. He started strong but Sephiroth was merely amusing himself.
Click to expand...

And also this:

Mako said:
Aerith had to save Cloud during the first duel, and it was only with their combined effort they were able to deal enough damage to press Sephiroth a little.

And when Sephiroth finally perfect-play'd their abilities and turned the tables, he was once again thwarted by Tifa.
Click to expand...

"Thwarted"? Seph had Cloud and Aerith telekinetically pinned for about seven seconds, completely helpless, and he just used that time to hover his blade in front of Cloud's face. He didn't even make a gesture like he was preparing to slice or stab.

Where was the killing blow that he had ample time for if that's what he intended? Where's the desperation in any of his moves? The surprise? Frustration? Fear even?

Why didn't he use this pin move more than the one time?? :wacky:
 
The Twilight Mexican

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Theozilla said:
Its not inherently contradictory, I mean haven't you ever seen a cat play with its food too much, and as a result ends up losing its prey? Same concept but with Sephiroth.
Click to expand...
But that's not how the situation resolves itself here. That's how Seph loses when he loses, sure. But he doesn't lose here. He just makes a chump out of Cloud and bugs out smugly, like a drive-by shitposter.

Misterbadguy said:
I suppose that's what make the current situation so interesting. We're quite literally in the realm of the unknown, noone knows what to expect or when to expect it now (for better or worse). By that measure it's down to how much the writers can endear her as a character to players, before she's taken away from them - if that still happens at all. I certainly liked her more in this than in OG, so that at least is encouraging.
Click to expand...
I meant to reply to this already, sorry.

It's not a matter of whether they can endear her to us that's the issue. They can do that. They did it in the original and have done so even more effectively here.

I'm saying that they may have mis-assessed the fandom's preoccupation as being that she survives rather than that her most meaningful of death scenes is preserved.
 
Theozilla

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
The Twilight Mexican said:
But that's not how the situation resolves itself here. That's how Seph loses when he loses, sure. But he doesn't lose here. He just makes a chump out of Cloud and bugs out smugly, like a drive-by shitposter.
Click to expand...
But it kinda is? When a cat loses its prey it was playing with, it doesn't mean the cat was defeated, it just means the the predator didn't get to finish off its prey/get its original objective achieved, which is what happened in this Remake scenario climax.
 
Erotic Materia

Erotic Materia

[CONFUSED SCREAMING]
Ok, just finished the game. I have a few thoughts.

1- WHAT.

2- THE.

3- ACTUAL FUCK JUST HAPPENED.

Now I understand why there are 35 pages about this chapter.

I have feelings about this, and they mostly aren't good. But I also don't have the patience to type out a novel.

Odysseus said:
YOU WERE FUCKING RIGHT @oty ! MY MIND IS THOUROUGLY BLOWN! FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK THEY ARE ALIVE! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I don't even care about any of the other crazy bullshit! Biggs and Jessie are ALIVE!
10000000000000000000/10, I might literally die.
Holy fuck. I need a minute.
Click to expand...

I saw Biggs, but where was Jessie?

Also, the trio survived? Really? Come on. What a bunch of bullshit.
 
Odysseus

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
Erotic Materia said:
I saw Biggs, but where was Jessie?

Also, the trio survived? Really? Come on. What a bunch of bullshit.
Click to expand...

Her glove is on the table, and maybe also her headband. The way the scene is directed leads me to believe she's alive too, but It's kinda 50/50. I was just real excited in the moment and over reacted a bit. Obviously not everybody is going to like such a change, but I don't care because I'm horribly biased. If Aerith doesn't die later I'll probably be upset though.
 
Theozilla

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
The Twilight Mexican said:
Not even a little bit, though. Seph clearly had him dead to rights and chose not to act on it, multiple times.

Like, really, how does anyone see a win for Cloud and team here on any level? They went where Seph told them to go, fought the destiny ghouls he wanted them to fight, and then got embarrassed.
Click to expand...
But that's literally what happens in the analogy between a cat playing with it's prey and losing it. The cat could have killed its prey, but because of it's own carelessness/hubris. The fact that Sephiroth ended up not being able to kill the party, is the same as a prey escaping the cat.
 
Theozilla

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
The Twilight Mexican said:
You're overlooking the distinction I keep trying to emphasize, though: they don't get away. He lets them go.
Click to expand...
Same difference in regards with the analogy though. That's effectively what happens with cats and prey, the cat's own actions/hubris are ultimately what allows for their prey to get away.
That's why @Makoeyes987 's description of Sephiroth both toying and losing control (since he ideally didn't want the party to disrupt his control of the Whispers) isn't contradictory.
 
Theozilla

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
The Twilight Mexican said:
That's my point, though: he doesn't lose control. They don't get away. He basically stops what he's doing and says "This was fun. See you later." There's no hubris-fueled comeuppance.
Click to expand...
There's no comeuppance, but there is at least some loss of control, if there wasn't losing the final battle wouldn't be an option. Sephiroth was obviously sincerely trying to some degree to kill the party, the fact that he doesn't indicates some amount of faux pas on his part.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom