SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

[ForceStealer]

Because the ending is basically a big long statement that they're gonna do their own new thing now. But I didn't want that, I wanted a remake.

 

[Wol]

Because the ending is basically a big long statement that they're gonna do their own new thing now. But I didn't want that, I wanted a remake.

That's one of the problems, and another one of them is their type of "statement" which to me damaged the plot's consistency.

If they wanted to change the plot so much why not do it without adding convoluted nonsense?

I would be very excited if they simply showed new characters affecting the plot or playable flashback sequences... things that wouldnt break the rules of its universe, at least, things that would realistically feel like they could happen in that world.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Oh I remember that, but back then I was thinking of it in reference to how he would've perhaps acquired knowledge of the future.

However, today I just came to the realization that the Edge of Creation itself, might literally be the equivalent to FFIX's Crystal World.

So yeah, I didn't put those two things together a week ago

Yeah, that's how I meant it. I said Crystal World might be what Seph referred to as this "edge of creation."

Why was the stamp on the chip bag different?

Just wanted to verify this since Mako has been insistent that it isn't meant to be the same dog, just an assistant to Stamp or something like that. I wasn't certain myself, so I hadn't doubted him about it up until now.

I looked at the dinner scene in Chapter 4, and well ...

The writing on both bags indicates they're the "Original" flavor. We can also see in that screengrab from Chapter 4 that different flavors apparently still use the same dog (not assistants to Stamp), but in a different pose.

So that settles this then, I think. Stamp really does have a different design in Zack's part of the ending.

Now, doesn't that make everything so much clearer?

 

[AerithLives]

The ending has ruined an otherwise fine remake. What on earth is all that crap about fighting fate in an alternative reality? Absolutely nonsense.
I hope someone gets fired for that.

 

[Odysseus]

The fact that its shoved right in the camera makes it pretty clear they want you to notice it. WhAt CoUlD iT mEaN???

I swear to god if our indicator for what timeline we're in is the design of a cartoon dog, I'm going to laugh so hard.

 

[ForceStealer]

The ending has ruined an otherwise fine remake. What on earth is all that crap about fighting fate in an alternative reality? Absolutely nonsense.

I wouldn't say it ruined it. 95% of it was incredible.
What it DID do was ensure that I'm not aching with anticipation for part 2. So....thanks I guess?

 

[oty]

Isnt it used to convey that Zack is the "original" Stamp? Like the hero before Cloud.

The ending has ruined an otherwise fine remake. What on earth is all that crap about fighting fate in an alternative reality? Absolutely nonsense.
I hope someone gets fired for that.

Good luck trying to fire Nojima, Nomura, Kitase, Hamaguchi and everyone that agreed on the script.

 

[Odysseus]

Isnt it used to convey that Zack is the "original" Stamp? Like the hero before Cloud.

I actually like that interpretation a lot.

 

[Tetsujin]

So the dog is different. Might indeed be an indicator we're not in Kansas anymore. Check for people drinking Nozz-a-la and driving Takuro Spirits, everyone.

 

[youffie]

Wouldnt you still trust them though? I mean, they still delivered a hell of a game overall. That's what is keeping me sane pretty much. They understand things about storytelling, and it would be hypocritical of me to suddenly lose all the earned trust due to an ending that we still dont understand half of it.

Depends on what you mean by trusting them. Will I buy the next part? Well, I’d be a liar if I said I wasn’t. But why should I trust their artistic vision if they can’t trust themselves enough to just change whatever they think should be changed without feeling the need to turn the ending into such a self-indulgent declaration of intents? You think you might improve something, then have the balls to write it and write it well, don’t go hiding behind your bUt We ChAnGeD dEsTiNy crap.

Yes, they are capable of writing and delivering great games and stories and characters. That makes their infatuation for nonsensical bullshit even worse and more dangerous, though.

The fact that its really only the last hour of my 45 hour playthrough that got stupid, and I really liked the preceding 44 hours for the most part, makes it kinda easy for me to just ignore the dumb whisper and Sephiroth fights and focus on everything else. I feel like too many people are letting the ending ruin the whole thing for them. This thread absolutely dwarfs the others, and I think that's kind of sad.

I understand what you’re saying, but trust me, no one is sadder about this than me. I haven’t been able to sleep these days because I was just too excited all the time. Yesterday I was basically typing the post I was going to write here in my head because I couldn’t wait to share all my thoughts and impressions, and it was very different from what I ended up posting. Playing this game gave me so much joy in a moment when I really needed it, which is probably why I feel even more betrayed and disappointed now. Hopefully, I’ll be able to go back to the rest of the game and have a more balanced opinion after I cool off a bit.

 

[Teioh]

It was pretty much the opposite for me, I had a really easy time with Roche but died to motorball twice.

I nearly died on Motorball which didn't help my feelings towards this chapter. I was hanging on with a tiny bit of energy for Cloud and Motorball itself literally had no energy in the bar but recovered from stagger before I could finish it. Was certain I'd fail but hanging back and taking out the wheels with long range attacks whilst dodging everything else and then speeding up to slash it to death once staggered got me through

We should have a thread for hints & tips, boss battle tactics, etc. I'd love to read what strategies people came up with to deal with the more difficult enemies. Especially if someone has fought them on a different difficulty mode and wanted to share that survival info with us.

 

[Odysseus]

Yeah, I'd love to know how to fight Hell House properly, for one thing. I didn't die, but that fight dragged out for a really long time.

 

[Knights of the Round]

So to change subject for a second, did anybody actually like the bike mini-game in chapter 4 better than the one in 18? I had a hard time with Motorball because hitting his front wheels was hard. I could't speed up the bike enough to reach them some times. I thought Roche was a much more fun boss fight.

I thought both bike sequences were absolutely awesome, but especially the last one with motor. The one with motor was one of the coolest things I've seen in a game to date.

 

[Knights of the Round]

So to change subject for a second, did anybody actually like the bike mini-game in chapter 4 better than the one in 18? I had a hard time with Motorball because hitting his front wheels was hard. I could't speed up the bike enough to reach them some times. I thought Roche was a much more fun boss fight.

Try the distance attack next time (L1 + triangle). It will slow him down.

Also, I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but as mind-f&@^ng as the ending was, my biggest fear and biggest question has been addressed. That question, was: "Can Square resurrect these characters true to their originals?" And that answer for me is a resounding YES. All of them felt like their old selves and are convincing as can be. The personalities, the mannerisms, the voice acting, the dialogue is top notch. For all of them.

To me that was the biggest question of whether not this game could be revisited and resurrect the same feelings for me. And now I feel convinced that Square can do that.. that they care as much about them as I do and going the extra mile with them. I wasn't convinced of that until now.

A big smile made its way across my face the first time I looked behind me and saw Barrett, Tifa, Aeris AND Red XIII following behind me. That was such a familiar and satisfying feeling.

 

[Interslicery]

I just beat it.

I swear to god... if they're turning this thing into another fucking kingdom hearts... I'm out. I'm so far the fuck out, and screw them.

Story deviation and saying they wanna do their own thing aside, how the fuck do you top this?? They literally killed the manifestation of an abstract, universal concept, and Cloud visited the edge of fucking creation. Who cares about the planet after that?
And why the fuck did they even want to stop fate anyway?!?! Hell, the last few times it interfered it was to save their lives, or bring Barret back from the fucking dead.
Was Sephiroth controlling them?? It seemed like it, but was that just fate fucking with them?
Are there now multiple timelines cause of the whole Zack bit? Are they gonna smash together? Are they gonna time travel/visit other dimensions? Is this gonna be a let's chase Sephiroth through different planes of existence? Are OTHER FF gonna start showing up in this??

Ok... I may have gone off the deep end there.... but like.... there are SO many fucking better ways to say "we're gonna do our own thing" than what they did. The way they did it... I am very fucking ready to stop this train we're on and walk home. They have an uphill battle to get me... not interested, but like, they have to show me they aren't gonna go off the deep end like KH.

P.s. And the fates didn't even do their fucking job right! Wedge survived!

 

[Odysseus]

^Hey now, you leave my lad Biggs out of this!

Nojima did say he was looking forward to seeing fan theories and such after the game came out, he totally knew how weird this was. He and Nomura must be cackling maniacally while sipping brandy right about now.

 

[Interslicery]

Ugh... I meant Wedge. He survived before fate was killed.

I don't even wanna theorize. It's not worth it.

 

[lithiumkatana17]

Apologies if this has been said, but I just got a thought and now have to word vomit all over this post:

Shitty concepts aside, what if by destroying the fates they've created an alternate (and I hate to keep using this word) timeline where certain folks have survived but it's a timeline they can no longer be a part of since they crossed over into Singularity and... I don't know where I'm going with this.

Ok, what if the timeline they've crossed over into is one doomed to failure since they screwed up and in order to go back to the other timeline and set things right, the characters who have survived now have to... die? because they can't exist in the timeline where those people have survived and... ugh.

Don't mind me, I'm consuming caffeine again after a 3-day break.

 

[Knights of the Round]

^Hey now, you leave my lad Biggs out of this!

Nojima did say he was looking forward to seeing fan theories and such after the game came out, he totally knew how weird this was. He and Nomura must be cackling maniacally while sipping brandy right about now.

Endless entertainment for them until the next release.

 

[Interslicery]

Well I'm glad they're fucking happy, then. Good for them.

I need to unplug or something, I'm just a fucking ball of emotions and thoughts cause of this damn thing

 

[Wol]

Well I'm glad they're fucking happy, then. Good for them.

I need to unplug or something, I'm just a fucking ball of emotions and thoughts cause of this damn thing

It will take a while, first day felt like I was the one living in some alternate reality, but no its real.

This aint FFVII: Remake, its FFVII: Demake.

 

[Odysseus]

Can I tell you I think some folks are reading way to much into this ending. All the stuff I'm seeing about time travel, alternate realities, stealth sequel stuff, it all feels like a case of over analyzing something.

Near as I can tell the plot is as simple as this. Sephiroth fell into the lifestream, absorbed it's knowledge, and looked at the Black Materia and was all like "I can work with this." But then he realised that fate itself was an actual mechanism of the planet. Upon this revelation he cracked open a cold one and said "Ya know, if I hijack that motherfucker my whole plan is gonna involve way fewer risks and take a lot less time." Then lo and behold he tricks the party into weakening the whispers, absorbs the whispers thus hijacking fate, and promptly loses that power again thanks to Cloud and the others. With that done we're all set for Sephiroth, and the story in general to proceed as usual going forward with any differences being closer to what we saw during the first 16 chapters in terms of how different things are. The main story beats are all still coming, and Zack is still dead

Granted, it's a bit confusing, and I only fully formed this idea after reading Mako's excellent post up above, but I still think it's all a lot less convoluted than it's being made out as.

I... I think I might draw this.

I did it (apologies for shitty phone picture)

 

[Interslicery]

Oh god... I just had the thought that they're gonna make Aerith the same one from the original game, and when she died she like, traveled to the remake world or some shit... cause she acts like she knows exactly what's gonna happen to her, and knows things that she shouldn't have...

 

[Aphyo]

Oh god... I just had the thought that they're gonna make Aerith the same one from the original game, and when she died she like, traveled to the remake world or some shit... cause she acts like she knows exactly what's gonna happen to her, and knows things that she shouldn't have...

Why else to do you think the plot devi.. I mean, whispers exist?

 

[Interslicery]

I need to tap out. I'm drinking now, and I'm just gonna get more incoherent, rambly, and whiny.

This ending jit me fuxking hard, man...
I fucking hate kingdom hearts, and this has strong fucking kingdom hearts vibes, and it's way too fucking extravagant to just be a one time thing, going forward.

God, I wanna know what people who haven't played the original think of the ending