SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

Oh god....what the hell is going on....?

It's like every time a theory shows up, another one even crazier and just as possible also appears. I want that Ultimania just as much as I wanted the freaking game as of now.

Apparently if you pick "Tails" with Chocobo Sam in Wall Market, and then select "Who's a good boy? You are!" when talking to Red XIII on the roof of the Shinra building, you unlock a hidden side quest which allows you to return to the Drum, breed a rainbow chocobo and fly to Sephiroth's alternate dimension on the moon.
 

SpacemanZero

Lv. 25 Adventurer
....Those sign inconsistencies do exist, yet they're also extremely inscrutable. Could they really be that intended?

This is honestly very confusing and frustrating because now both conclusions carry plausibility.

What the fuck is going on here?

The biggest issue however is the plate. I find the fact they would fuck up the plate to be an error that's highly unlikely because why would it happen? They did it right; why somehow flub it here? I dunno. My head literally hurts and while I don't prefer the alternate timeline answer, it felt like a definitive answer. Now it seems even that answer is no longer as assured due to continuity flubs in animation.

I'd scream like Tidus if I didn't care about embarrassing myself.

Honestly, they just can't fuck up the plate. Not when they're hinting a different timeline with changing Stamp's breed and after that putting a golden dust over the scenes that are "off" and one of those dust clouds just happen to appear on top of the plate 7 which really really should not be there. Not when we're just exiting from a singularity fighting ghosts from a future timeline and not after Aerith says all what she says before that.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
1587158403115.png

Either this is the partially collapsed Sector 6 with next to it Sector 5, and they are counting the plates counterclockwise (which is wrong), or a very different rendition of to what extent the Sector 7 plate collapsed they made. I hope it's somehow the former to be honest but I guess it's the latter
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Ah of course, then it's settled! - they used the wrong one in the ending. Mystery solved.

So to clarify....

They used the wrong skybox.

Messed up the signage of Seventh Heaven.

Created a hitherto unknown puppy for a bag of chips while the previously used model of said puppy exist,ed within the assets of the game still.

Showcased Zack seemingly surviving his last stand and being surprised by his own survival.

Showed Biggs being alive against all odds.

Showcased Jessie's personal effects strangely placed on the desk near Biggs' bed.

And all of these strange things happen to simply be a coincidence?

View attachment 5582

Either this is the partially collapsed Sector 6 with next to it Sector 5, and they are counting the plates counterclockwise (which is wrong), or a very different rendition of to what extent the Sector 7 plate collapsed they made. I hope it's somehow the former to be honest but I guess it's the latter

Even if it were just a partial collapse it's still a radical change that would be the result of a change in time. Why else would that happen?

This is all very mysterious.
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
but chapters 13 and 14 have an actual skybox with no sector 7.

FINAL-FANTASY-VII-REMAKE_20200414231741-1024x576.jpg

To be fair, this is also inconsistent with how it looks in chapter 15
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Chapter 15 and Chapter 13 might as well be two different timelines, like where are you standing in Chapter 15 if not ON TOP of the city that fell on Sector 7 slums before Chapter 13 and then seemingly mostly disappeared again? They really bungled that no matter what the ending means.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
View attachment 5582

Either this is the partially collapsed Sector 6 with next to it Sector 5, and they are counting the plates counterclockwise (which is wrong), or a very different rendition of to what extent the Sector 7 plate collapsed they made. I hope it's somehow the former to be honest but I guess it's the latter
I think this scene with Marle is either supposed to take place in the Sector 6 slums and the animators accidentally left in the Sector 7 plate (in the upper right hand corner of this screenshot) unfallen, OR it's supposed to be the remains of the Sector 7 slums and the animators accidentally used the Sector 6 plate for where the fallen Sector 7 plate skybox should be.

It's a shame we can't see the number on the reactor in this scene, it would definitely help clarify things (maybe data-miners will be able to see it in the future?)
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Chapter 15 and Chapter 13 might as well be two different timelines, like where are you standing in Chapter 15 if not ON TOP of the city that fell on Sector 7 slums before Chapter 13 and then seemingly mostly disappeared again? They really bungled that no matter what the ending means.

At the very least, those issues are issues in depicting rubble in-game via the engine. Maybe there were technical limitations or they simply didn't want to make the screen completely cluttered with debris? I dunno, I'm spitballing here tbh.

The ending however is a CGI cutscene. They're meticulously animating it and going by the details and rendering they've done before. It would be clown-shoes for them to mess up so egregiously.

I'm trying to look at the total picture here. The ending movie inconsistencies all could be a mistake. But then what does the rest of everything point to?
 

Lex

Administrator
Sigh. It really gon' be like that huh

So to clarify....

They used the wrong skybox.

Probably. Or they made the cutscene separately, prior to the skybox being created. Or they didn't have one made in the "dawn" shade they wanted so used another, more convenient one hoping nobody would notice it's actually the sector 6 plate above them, since it's only visible for about 3 seconds of the ending (I just rewatched it).

Messed up the signage of Seventh Heaven.

I don't see a huge difference between the two. Nothing that requires there to be an alternative universe to explain anyway.

Created a hitherto unknown puppy for a bag of chips while the previously used model of said puppy exist,ed within the assets of the game still.

This is an indication there is an AU, or that the timeline has been altered in some way. I will take this moment to remind you that I believed this from the start, and also that you've spent the vast majority of your time in this thread arguing *against* that notion, even going so far as to claim that the dog is simply a lower rank because less stars are visible on his hat. (I don't always get involved but I certainly read the posts lmaooooooooooooooooooooo)

Showcased Zack seemingly surviving his last stand and being surprised by his own survival.

Again yeah this is right, I argued this from the beginning lol.

Showed Biggs being alive against all odds.

Don't wanna repeat myself but yes

Showcased Jessie's personal effects strangely placed on the desk near Biggs' bed.

Not sure this is indicative of anything yet since we don't know if she's alive.

And all of these strange things happen to simply be a coincidence?

Nope! Some of these things are clearly there to tell us the timeline has changed in some way. Some of these things are far more likely to be goofs. I don't see the point in the fandom grasping at straws to prove something they can easily discern from other stuff going on.

Like, it's not that deep guys. We don't need to make it more complicated than it is. They made an AU. Use the evidence they actually gave you and don't get hung up on details that can easily be explained in other ways. The last thing we need to be doing is making this more trouble than it needs to be. By all means, go on treasure hunts and look for indicators but



Even if it were just a partial collapse it's still a radical change that would be the result of a change in time. Why else would that happen?

This is all very mysterious.

Some of it is mysterious yeah but the majority of things now that people are arguing are proof of an AU are - to me - simply things that happened in the version of events we played. We didn't actually see Biggs die for example. I believe his place in the ending is meant to prove that he has recovered (against all odds) where the fate things wouldn't have let him do so if the party hadn't defeated them. I don't believe it means the sector 7 collapse segment we actually played in the game happened any differently.

This is strongly reminding me of the time when the remake was revealed and people spent a thousand pages being absolutely certain the gold hilt of the buster sword was hidden under the studs. No. Reality check please.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Your country needs you!
I don't know if this is a screen-grab you're interested in, but I took one for the Chapter 8 thread, showing how the Church is definitely under the Sector 6 plate and Sector 6 Reactor (since the matching/corresponding #number of the reactors are on the left slices/sides of their sectors/plates) even though narratively/geographically it shouldn't be.
3990002D-AACD-4A96-9E9C-1DF108B0FC52.jpeg
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
@Lex yes, you're right I was firmly of the camp that didn't think there was an alternate timeline. However, given these egregious continuity errors coupled with the strange additions showcased in the ending, the strain on my previous disbelief of that being a possibility has become too great to bear.

Maybe these coincidences in animation errors are that, coincidences. And maybe all those strange changes in the ending have perfectly reasonable explanations.

...But I feel like a young college co-ed staying at Camp Crystal Lake at night trying to explain away the heavy slimy footsteps I hear outside my door, the machete I saw stabbed in the trunk of a tree entering the camp, the screaming I heard next door, and the lumbering hockey-mask wearing madman peering through my window.

There's a point where reasonable explanations cease being reasonable, I guess :monster:
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
For the record I still don't think there's an alternate timeline (be it one where the Sector 7 plate didn't fall or one where Zack is alive), I think the main point of the different Stamp Champs chip bag dog was for usage of visual symbolism to show how Zack is the "original" one in Cloud's backstory.
 

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
Not sure this is indicative of anything yet since we don't know if she's alive..
No other reason for them to be there. Their very presence is meant to cause the viewer to think of her, and then Biggs is shown just a second later, alive. Obviously the viewer is meant to connect the two ideas: Jessie's things + Biggs alive = Jessie alive. Because one thought naturally flows into the next. First thought - we see Jessie's glove, so we think of her. Next thought - we see Biggs alive, so the concept of characters thought dead being alive is firmly established. Third thought - if Biggs is alive, and Jessie's glove is there, then maybe Jessie's alive, too. I believe we are meant to make that connection and realize that possibility.

Besides, merely hinting at her survival rather than showing it outright naturally leads to people talking and theorizing about her and that possibility more than they otherwise would. As she is the most popular and developed of the trio, it makes sense to me to leave it like that to keep us hooked and interested and wanting to find out and thus, build anticipation and even excitement for her possible eventual Part 2 reveal, in which I suspect she'll look fairly different from how she did in Part 1 given that some of her gear was left behind for Biggs to find, maybe as a message to him that she's alright and not to worry about her.
 
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Lex

Administrator
Of course we are, but it is equally possible that Biggs (or whoever) took them off her as a memento when they found her body. We don't know yet and we won't know until they decide to tell us :monster:
 
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