SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

Knights of the Round

Pro Adventurer
Would some of you have been happier if the Whispers went unexplained? Not criticizing opinions, just curious.
I would've been happier if they weren't swooping in and ruining some of the good OG moments like when you first meet Aeris or are at the church with her, or the rest of the times they got in the way.

I also feel if they were going to include them as much as they did they should've made them creepier so that the player actually feared them.. instead of them coming off as more comical/quirky.
 

oty

Pro Adventurer
AKA
ex-soldier boy
I agree in the sense that I've more or less made my peace with it, and that the shitty ending isn't enough to overpower how much I adored the rest of it.

BUT, just to put a point on it, my problem is not just it not being a pure recreation - but that it was SO CLOSE to exactly what I wanted, lol. As you said:


That's the part that still gnaws at me. If you finished the bike chase, and everyone stated their reason for continuing the journey, said goodbye to Midgar, gave us this shot, and then rolled credits? I would have been over the moon. 10/10. Even if the stupid dementor stuff was still there because I wouldn't have an answer about them and could just put them out of my mind as just a silly attempt at metacommentary.

BreakableIckyFlicker-size_restricted.gif
I think I just wanted the ending to be better executed. They got something right: I am throughly and completely discussing every single thing, and working out all my predictions and stuff. And that's what they wanted. For oldcomers and newcomers. Except, there is a bad taste in it. And it's the ending.

I dont think there was any way they would have not put some crazy thing in the ending (since ending with Motorball would honestly suck), but I wish it was better made.

Would some of you have been happier if the Whispers went unexplained? Not criticizing opinions, just curious.
I think it's a bit 50/50. I am curious to see their connection to the Planet, if that's going to be more explained. But I also think that when I didnt know what they were, I was more engaged.

I think they should have appeared less, and been more intimidating.

I would've been happier if they weren't swooping in and ruining some of the good OG moments like when you first meet Aeris or are at the church with her, or the rest of the times they got in the way.

I also feel if they were going to include them as much as they did they should've made them creepier so that the player actually feared them.. instead of them coming off as more comical/quirky.
Pretty much this. Even though I dig the concept of "hood with no face", it looks terribly quirky in the Remake.
 

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
That's the part that still gnaws at me. If you finished the bike chase, and everyone stated their reason for continuing the journey, said goodbye to Midgar, gave us this shot, and then rolled credits? I would have been over the moon. 10/10. Even if the stupid dementor stuff was still there because I wouldn't have an answer about them and could just put them out of my mind as just a silly attempt at metacommentary.

BreakableIckyFlicker-size_restricted.gif

final-fantasy-7-remake-ps4-theme.jpg


I have this theme installed on my PS4 and I feel like it is now just mocking me every time I boot up to play the game :rclosedmonster:
 

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
I guess one could say...

That ending shot there is from an alternate timeline too... :awesome:

In my alternate timeline, I am living in the alternate timeline where I don't have to imagine an alternate timeline where this alternate timeline conversation isn't a joke :'(:awesome:

...or maybe the one where danny devito rips himself out of a leather sofa and kills aerith instead. that'd be pretty sweet.

canon is dead let's get creative.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Oh right, but that’s as good as confirmation, isn’t it? I mean people thought it could be Cloud/Tifa/Barret or the three from AC/C, but once you confirm the fighting styles there’s not much more to say?
The Ultimania confirms that the whisper sub-bosses are related/are a reference/have a connection to the Remnants, it doesn't confirm them as being literally the exact same entities/individuals, which may or may not be a significant detail difference to different people.
 

ultima786

Pro Adventurer
AKA
ultima
I mean even in the OG Sephiroth doesn't/can't control Cloud 24/7. It's not an absolute control.

Also an interesting bit of trivia people pointed out in another thread, even in the OG there are instances of Sephiroth speaking to Cloud as if he's an "ally", like when Aerith leaves for the forgotten capital.

Look at 1:04 here. Aerith says, "It's only a matter of time before Sephiroth uses Meteor. That's why I'm going to protect it. Only a survivor of the Cetra, like me, can do it. The secret is just up here. At least it should be. ... I feel it. It feels like I'm being led by something. Then, I'll be going now. I'll come back when it's all over."

WHISPERS?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?! lol

Anyhow, a little more evidence to me that they are just filling in blanks with the remake rather than just making brand-new stuff up.
 

Mayo Master

Pro Adventurer
Hey folks, just finished my second playthrough in Normal. I just had 2 things to note about this chapter:

- First, I'm not sure why everybody seems to loathe the motorbike chase and the fight vs. MOTOR. Got it done again on my first try with ~20% life to spare. I've seen so many raging comments about how this fight is broken, how this fight is a clear miss on Q&A for how much it sucked, etc... I'm just puzzled. IMO there are many more sequences in the game that are more difficult or frustrating to deal with (like how I got wiped out in a random fight vs. zenenes because I got interrupted 5 times in a row when trying to heal >_>).
Let me keep me motorbike sequences. I had fun...

- For some reason I found the ending more palatable on the second go. I'm wondering if it's because the 'shock & WTF' isn't overwhelming and I can look at it with the mindset of understanding what it's all about (although I did not necessarily make progress :mon:) and just enjoying the show in general.
 
Realizing now I may not have seen the forest for looking at the trees.

My first thought was that the nebula Sephiroth and Cloud look at, while they stand on the Edge of Creation, was connected with the ultimate fate of planetary lifestreams. Like maybe lifestreams that have undergone the Omega scenario all congregate in one place. I also figured that the name "Edge of Creation" held some obscure meaning in new lore yet to be revealed.

But I think now I over-complicated matters. What can cause such a giant cloud of gas to appear? A supernova. What happens after a supernova? New stars form. Cloud and Sephiroth are standing at the edge of where new stars are formed. The location name thus becomes overly straightforward. They are standing next to the nursery of new stars and planets.

Will the final Remake game change it so that Sephiroth's Supernova attack is a window into the inevitable future of the FFVII world? Supernova will thus be discretely woven into the plot, as it is now the very thing that Sephiroth wants to transcend.

Feel free to laugh at me for taking so long to associate the Edge of Creation nebula with actual supernovae and indeed Sephiroth's Supernova. :monster:
 

Knights of the Round

Pro Adventurer
Hey folks, just finished my second playthrough in Normal. I just had 2 things to note about this chapter:

- First, I'm not sure why everybody seems to loathe the motorbike chase and the fight vs. MOTOR. Got it done again on my first try with ~20% life to spare. I've seen so many raging comments about how this fight is broken, how this fight is a clear miss on Q&A for how much it sucked, etc... I'm just puzzled. IMO there are many more sequences in the game that are more difficult or frustrating to deal with (like how I got wiped out in a random fight vs. zenenes because I got interrupted 5 times in a row when trying to heal >_>).
Let me keep me motorbike sequences. I had fun...
Totally with ya. I enjoyed the MOTOR fight and the whole highway sequence more than just about any other fight in the game. All the 'QA miss blah-blah' is being way overblown. Some people are so infatuated with it they're writing full-blown short stories out of it.

Insane, if you ask me.. but some people pick apart things because it helps them feel important.
 

Wol

None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
AKA
Rosarian Shield
Totally with ya. I enjoyed the MOTOR fight and the whole highway sequence more than just about any other fight in the game. All the 'QA miss blah-blah' is being way overblown. Some people are so infatuated with it they're writing full-blown short stories out of it.

Insane, if you ask me.. but some people pick apart things because it helps them feel important.
It surely helps one's ego when you frame other opinions as just wanting to feel important.
 

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
my dumb brain didn't really process the transition to left-right being up-down :sadpanda:

i had no problem after i figured that out lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: LNK

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
There's a steep curve in terms of the bike boss fight. Once you figure out the pattern and trick to success it's pretty easy, and it lends itself to being won that way. However, if you're fumbling in the dark, it'll chew you up. I think there's just a lot of people who haven't played games like this in a long time so they're less likely to figure out such mechanics. I don't think it's necessarily badly designed, but it could be designed better.

Easy mode at least makes it a lot more manageable, and the game designers mercifully don't make fighting it a requirement more than once.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Realizing now I may not have seen the forest for looking at the trees.

My first thought was that the nebula Sephiroth and Cloud look at, while they stand on the Edge of Creation, was connected with the ultimate fate of planetary lifestreams. Like maybe lifestreams that have undergone the Omega scenario all congregate in one place. I also figured that the name "Edge of Creation" held some obscure meaning in new lore yet to be revealed.

But I think now I over-complicated matters. What can cause such a giant cloud of gas to appear? A supernova. What happens after a supernova? New stars form. Cloud and Sephiroth are standing at the edge of where new stars are formed. The location name thus becomes overly straightforward. They are standing next to the nursery of new stars and planets.

Will the final Remake game change it so that Sephiroth's Supernova attack is a window into the inevitable future of the FFVII world? Supernova will thus be discretely woven into the plot, as it is now the very thing that Sephiroth wants to transcend.

Feel free to laugh at me for taking so long to associate the Edge of Creation nebula with actual supernovae and indeed Sephiroth's Supernova. :monster:

If it helps at all, what the localization made "edge of creation" was "世界の先端" in Japanese. Which ... being completely honest, I'm unsure what it means as an apparent noun unto itself like this. It literally looks like "tip of the world," and the only recollection for this sort of "世界の先端" construction I have is in phrases about the world's "most-advanced"/"leading"/"cutting edge" something or other.

Maybe @Strangelove would see some nuance I'm missing, but based on the overall context we have for this, I'd wager "先端" should be taken as "apex," and "世界の先端" as "the apex of the world" -- or, in other words, "the culmination/end of the world." Which is what we know the "seven seconds" thing to be about.

So this is less a precipice of cosmic creation and more the sorry state of the planet in its final moment. Of course, given the Omega concept, I suppose whether this is the end of everything or the birth of something new is all in the eye of the beholder. :monster:
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
In English, "creation" also carries the definition of denoting the planet or Earth itself.

"I've been running around all over creation to find you, why have you been avoiding me?!"


. .Is an example of the word in that context.

So, "Edge of Creation" could easily be read as "the ends of the earth," or "the planet at the brink." Which is a very interesting context to ponder, given the description and previous scene shown before the boss fight with Sephiroth.

If Meteor was Sephiroth's plan to rule the planet as it's god by absorbing the Lifestream, where is he? Why is he speaking to Cloud as if the Planet had wiped all life on its own, and not him?

.... I mean the only thing that would do that would be Holy. Pronouncing a verdict of guilty on all life and deeming it "bad for the planet."
 

Mayo Master

Pro Adventurer
Feel free to laugh at me for taking so long to associate the Edge of Creation nebula with actual supernovae and indeed Sephiroth's Supernova. :monster:
To add to that, I pointed our in another thread that the cluster of nebulae in the background oddly had a silhouette resembling Safer Sephiroth.
The fact that the path to reach the Edge of Creation ("tunnel vision") is exactly the same as the journey from the fight vs Safer Sephiroth to the final 1 vs 1 battle in the OG can't be coincidental...
 

snatchr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Snatchr
I agree in the sense that I've more or less made my peace with it, and that the shitty ending isn't enough to overpower how much I adored the rest of it.

BUT, just to put a point on it, my problem is not just it not being a pure recreation - but that it was SO CLOSE to exactly what I wanted, lol. As you said:


That's the part that still gnaws at me. If you finished the bike chase, and everyone stated their reason for continuing the journey, said goodbye to Midgar, gave us this shot, and then rolled credits? I would have been over the moon. 10/10. Even if the stupid dementor stuff was still there because I wouldn't have an answer about them and could just put them out of my mind as just a silly attempt at metacommentary.

BreakableIckyFlicker-size_restricted.gif
Even having an obligatory Sephiroth battle where he beats the shit out of your party effortlessly (no you shouldn't be staggering that guy in MIDGAR) woulda been fine. If you need to pump up the ending of Midgar, you throw a teaser of the main antagonist there. Easy, done. All they've really done is blown their load on spectacle and completely shattered my grasp of how powerful anyone is. Cloud is already flying through the air and slicing buildings in half. How is anything supposed to be imposing at this point?

Doubly jarring when the game awkwardly crashes back onto the rails of 1997 and the gang is ready to adventure across the world to chase a bad guy, as if they didn't just get thrust into an existential nightmare reality to fight an all powerful cosmic timelord. The way they all just roll with the punches and breeze over their interdimensional fate battle is hilarious honestly. Barret in particular should be losing his fucking mind all the way to the credits.

It feels like they just dropped this tonally divergent scene into the middle of the original script with no editing on either side. While other additions naturally feed into the story, easing in and easing back out seamlessly- The ending goes full [INSERT NEW SCENE HERE, CUT, CONTINUE]
 
Last edited:

Knights of the Round

Pro Adventurer
It surely helps one's ego when you frame other opinions as just wanting to feel important.
Looks like I struck a nerve.

No, it’s just basic psychology, actually, and anyone who cares so much about what an anonymous persona on the internet thinks of them is a solid case study.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom