SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 2 Spoiler Discussion

[Eerie]

Spoiler: (Chapter 14 spoiler)

No they can't. It's already rushed towards the end, there are so many scenes that they can do, they had a limited time. They already did THREE different scenes for ch14, they were not going to do yet another in case you give the flower to Jessie and pick Tifa to romance. It also changed Cloud's arrival in 7th Heaven, so you'd also need two scenes there. Shit gotta be kept more simpler. More choices mean more work, a LOT more.

Edit: it also means that the flower is not here anymore in 7th Heaven if you give it to Jessie, so you gotta redo all the scenes there.

 

[Jairus]

Spoiler: (Chapter 14 spoiler)

The flower could still be in the same pot if you give it to Jessie, there's nothing saying she couldn't have put it there. And that scene in Chapter 14 is hardly a romance. It's only one moment, and can be with Barret just as easily as with either of the girls. He hasn't been with either of the girls for very long, not long enough for anything to really develop yet. The game itself doesn't even call them romances but resolutions. Besides, they already let us have one choice with Jessie. What's one more? And it could be added later as DLC along with the requisite alternate scenes to go with it.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Spoiler: (Chapter 14 spoiler)

No they can't. It's already rushed towards the end, there are so many scenes that they can do, they had a limited time. They already did THREE different scenes for ch14, they were not going to do yet another in case you give the flower to Jessie and pick Tifa to romance. It also changed Cloud's arrival in 7th Heaven, so you'd also need two scenes there. Shit gotta be kept more simpler. More choices mean more work, a LOT more.

Edit: it also means that the flower is not here anymore in 7th Heaven if you give it to Jessie, so you gotta redo all the scenes there.

Spoiler: (Chapter 14 spoiler)

It's really not as big a deal as you're making it out. Two versions of Cloud's arrival at Seventh Heaven, two versions of the Chapter 14 conversation with Tifa, with minimal dialogue changes.

 

[looneymoon]

I caved and got a digital copy

I don't really like what they did with Cloud and Aerith's first encounter. The angry dementors threw off the tone in a way that was not good, imo. I wouldn't mind so much if this was a different scene. But it's the first encounter between the two most important characters in the story, and I dont like how it was handled :/

I am less salty about the whole "Shinra blew up the reactor" thing what with how its expanded upon in the world. This is a full game in it's own right, and I think setting up a more direct conflict between Shinra/Midgar vs Avalanche works fine.

Tifa's strength stat is higher than Cloud's. Which means her fists hit harder than that giant sword. God I want her to beat me up.

All this running around with Tifa is making me a happy shipper. I love the world building of the slums.

Also the music is outstanding.

I'm taking a long time with this chapter because I'm so happy to finally be able to talk about stuff!! Gonna carry on now

 

[Eerie]

I don't know, I think it's more than they could give, they also had to redo all the scenes in 7th Heaven without the flower... I think it's too much work compared to what they were ready to give for the sake of giving the flower to Jessie. And then people would have complained because they'd want to give it to Marlene too. Things go fast if you start like this on a tight schedule.

 

[Odysseus]

they also had to redo all the scenes in 7th Heaven without the flower...

I'm not about to weigh in on this "Should Jessie have gotten the flower" discussion, but I will say that hiding the flower model so its not sitting on the bar would basically require no effort. Its not like they'd need to completely redo the whole scene, they could just hide the flower in the event Tifa didn't get it. its easy.

 

[Jairus]

They don't even need to do that. Jessie could have easily put the flower in the same pot and in the same spot that Tifa did. No need to redo all the 7th Heaven scenes at all.

 

[Eerie]

So the question that lingers is, how many people would think you have to give it to Jessie and won't have the choice to give it to Tifa, since she appears later on?

In the OG you had the choice but Tifa and Marlene were together. Here Jessie and Tifa are not at the same place, you wouldn't feel like you are given "a choice", at least not new players. As I see it it's really a "it's more simple that way", really. Plus all the rest...

 

[Jairus]

If it's made obvious it's a choice, then people wouldn't think she was only one you could give it to. The choice for giving it to Jessie could have happened on the train, and if you turned her down, you'd get Tifa's scene on entering the 7th Heaven. If you give it to Jessie, you'd have a scene on the train with her and an altered 7th Heaven entry scene that doesn't feature the flower being given to Tifa.

 

[Eerie]

How so? I mean the French streamer I know in ch10

Spoiler

woke up Aerith without even realising that he was picking her LOL

so you must realise that a LOT of people who play FFVII Remake (and even the OG hell) without pondering too much about it would completely miss the choice. I even suspect that most would want to be nice to Jessie and give her the flower and thus miss the canon choice of giving it to Tifa, except for CloTi shippers.

 

[Tennyo]

Got to say this chapter was cool. I like the fact that the game was not trying to make us think that what Avalanche did was okay. I like the fact that it was showing that what happened in the reactor was having huge ramifications. Even though Shinra made it so much worse than it should have been, the members of Avalanche were still having to come to grips with the fact that hey what if we really did do this.

And I kind of do like sephiroth showing up a little bit more than I thought I would. I really liked seeing Cloud kind of having a breakdown over it and seemed so upset. The only thing that bothers me, is that this almost feels like it's sephiroth confirming to Cloud the oh yeah you were in Nibelheim when a big part of the largest twist in the original game was Sephiroth trying to make Cloud think he wasn't.

It just kind of seems like they're trying to remove what I've always felt was the best plot twist in the game and part of why Cloud's story arc in the original game was as powerful as it was. It's possible that that's not the case, but I'm kind of worried that it is. I think if they had not brought up Nibelheim it would have been better.

I can't remember, does chapter 2 end when you get back to the bar or does it end when you get off the train?

 

[Theozilla]

Eh I think it’s entirely in character with Sephiroth to mess with Cloud to make him believe one thing first and then another later. Especially with the ambiguity of how much Sephiroth is being filtered through Cloud’s subconscious versus his actual persona.

 

[looneymoon]

I usually gave Marlene the flower in OG. I like my Cloud being nice to kids as opposed to suave with girls.

Cloud and Jessie's interactions so far are basically like

Jessie: hey lmk how big's that d )))))
Cloud: small leave me alone

(I saw this in a meme but didn't wanna accidentally spoil myself trying to find it again)

 

[Tennyo]

I usually gave Marlene the flower in OG. I like my Cloud being nice to kids as opposed to suave with girls.

^^^THIS. I always gave the flower to Marlene.

I didn't want to bring it up because I couldn't remember if what happens at the bar was the end of chapter 2 or if it was the beginning of chapter 3 (must be end of chapter 2), but I agree. The way he pulls out the flower and holds it out for Tifa was just...a little too smooth for me. XD

Eh I think it’s entirely in character with Sephiroth to mess with Cloud to make him believe one thing first and then another later. Especially with the ambiguity of how much Sephiroth is being filtered through Cloud’s subconscious versus his actual persona.

I guess. Maybe he'll flip it later and be like, "I never said that too you." I'm trying not to think too deeply about it.

 

[oty]

Eh, I get why they did that. I dont super enjoy it, but the original didnt really do a superb job of laying out the mystery. There are still people who dont get the whole Zack-Nibelheim deal, so I think they are making it easier.

 

[Jairus]

I usually gave Marlene the flower in OG. I like my Cloud being nice to kids as opposed to suave with girls.

Cloud and Jessie's interactions so far are basically like

Jessie: hey lmk how big's that d )))))
Cloud: small leave me alone

(I saw this in a meme but didn't wanna accidentally spoil myself trying to find it again)

He does flash her a small smile though. He's a tsundere, and so he's not entirely sure how to respond to warmth and interest like Jessie's. But his eyes follow her almost the whole time, and she has to move the materia to even get him to notice it because he's watching her so much. And she keeps flirting because she knows he doesn't really mean what he's saying. She can tell he's trying to act cool and aloof but that it's not really him. It's why she keeps at it.

Eerie, why would giving it to Tifa be canon if there was more than one option? Suppose Jessie went to the 7th Heaven along with Cloud instead of going off with Biggs and Wedge and the choice was presented there instead? Or on the train, if the choice was presented as "Give it to Jessie/Save it for Tifa"? In either case, the options would be clear and unmissable. And no choice would be more canon than the other. It would be completely player-determined.

 

[Eerie]

Because obviously since there is no option like this SE decided it was the canon route.

Also all the choices are “silent choices” meaning you don’t know you are making a choice towards a girl. That’s how the system has always worked, so it would be bizarre for them to do otherwise.

 

[Jairus]

How can it be silent when their names are right there in front of you? And I was just saying if there had been given options, then none of them would be canon and each would be equally valid.

 

[Eerie]

What I mean is that the choice to romance a girl are usually more subtle, you don't know how the system works. With such a blatant answer, there is no subtlety anymore.

 

[Jairus]

But at least with the names there, the player knows what they're in for and can more easily take the path that they want to.

 

[Eerie]

The whole point is that it's a hidden system Jairus, IDK why you seem to miss that point.

 

[Jairus]

I don't seem to see why you miss the point of having the option of who you want to give the flower to clearly labeled, as it was in the OG.

 

[Eerie]

OK Jairus I'm 2cm away from blocking you, just so you know. Stop asking WHY DID THEY NOT FAVOURED JESSIE LIKE I WANTED THEM TO? because it's driving me (at the very least) crazy. You will not accept ANY opinion as to why they decided to not include her, missing the VERY OBVIOUS point that she is NOT part of the romance possibilities (which includes 2 romance outcomes + a non-romantic outcome, and that's already a good deal IMHO). While you could be nice to her to some extent ALREADY which you seemed happy at first with but you've focused on that damn fucking flower which is a fucking plot point that actually links Aerith, Cloud and Tifa nicely IMHO.

We are NOT the dev team we cannot answer for sure that question, what went with the development, why they chose this or that. IMHO there are many more interesting questions about FFVIIR (which is why I prefer to hang around in ch18 thread tbh), so you are living on a question that will probably remain unanswered, at least until the Ultimania IF NOT for your WHOLE LIFE so stop being obsessive about it and accept that's the choice that they made because they thought it was the way they wanted it to go.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm not caring for the tone this is taking. Let's just pretend you guys have agreed to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[Clean Cut Chaos]

So Cloud tells Seph that he "killed him with his own hands" but in the OG Calm flashback, he didn't know what happened or even how he could have survived the encounter given how strong Seph was. That was one of my favorite revelations in the OG and I'm kind of sad they just pulled the trigger on that point so soon.