SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 8 Spoiler Discussion

Jairus

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
That's true. I couldn't remember if it was for the same night as Jessie's date, though. But if he accepted hers, than that would make three dates in one night. What a busy guy...

Er, not sure if he'd be that kind of busy, though. :mon:
 
The Twilight Mexican

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Jairus said:
That'd be a little awkward though, wouldn't it? Especially if both girls had found out about the other's date? :mon:
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I don't know, maybe? Neither of them strike me as the type to get insanely possessive that a guy they just met (especially this guy) isn't immediately moving into the exclusive zone before there's been a conversation about it.
 
Tennyo

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
Jairus said:
You know, Aerith's nice and all, but did they have to let her have her line about the date all while Cloud might've already had one planned with Jessie if he had accepted her invitation in Chapter 4? It's like it was totally forgotten about. I know that Aerith would've had no idea and no way to know, but the writers did. Couldn't they have had Cloud say something like "Already got one." if he had accepted Jessie's invite earlier? To show that he'd done that and make the choice matter just a little?
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Aerith offering Cloud a date as payment is a pretty iconic line, and was even something the writers had mimicked by Zack in Crisis Core. So no, it's too important of a line that too many people in the fandom were looking for. TBH I think people would have been upset if it was cut.

Also, did not one of the shops in Sector 5 have a phone Cloud could've borrowed to call the 7th Heaven? Curious oversight, if you ask me. Cloud and Aerith didn't even think of it, and he's meant to be this seasoned fighter while's she's a street smart flower girl. Supposedly. Not one person in the entire sector has a phone? Kinda reminds me of Marlene in AC:C getting on Vincent for not having one - "You don't have a phone!?"
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Maybe Seventh Heaven doesn't have a phone to call? These are poor people living in the slums, remember.
 
Jairus

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
The Twilight Mexican said:
I don't know, maybe? Neither of them strike me as the type to get insanely possessive that a guy they just met (especially this guy) isn't immediately moving into the exclusive zone before there's been a conversation about it.
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I was sort of joking around.

Tennyo said:
Aerith offering Cloud a date as payment is a pretty iconic line, and was even something the writers had mimicked by Zack in Crisis Core. So no, it's too important of a line that too many people in the fandom were looking for. TBH I think people would have been upset if it was cut.
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Like I said before, a line could've been added to have Cloud say something like he already had one, instead of cutting hers.

Maybe Seventh Heaven doesn't have a phone to call? These are poor people living in the slums, remember.
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I think it was shown that it does.

ForceStealer said:
He already missed Jessie's date. That was for the night before.
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No, it was for the same night. The Reactor 5 mission happened the day of the date, and he woke up in the church that same day. So it would've been the night he was at Aerith's house.
 
Theozilla

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Tennyo said:
Maybe Seventh Heaven doesn't have a phone to call? These are poor people living in the slums, remember.
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There's also the potential of Shinra monitoring phone and other wireless communication too, and thus not being secure forms of communication, for Avalanche in particular. (then there's also the Doylistic explanation that this an adaption of an narrative that was made in the mid-90s when personal phone communication wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now)
 
Jairus

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
Then there should've been given some in-game explanation for that. I don't think we're shown that Shinra can monitor phone lines, and it doesn't seem like a safe practice to leave your teammates without any way of contacting each other if they got separated. And we're shown that cellphones exist in the remake, so simpler and cheaper ones could easily exist as well.
 
lithiumkatana17

lithiumkatana17

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lith
Dude.

Cloud is not romantically interested in Jessie. They're never going to be a couple, and a date between them just isn't going to happen at this point.

There is a reason the material you are suggesting be put in the game was not put in the game. Because it's just not going to happen.
 
Tennyo

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
Cell phones also existed in the original as well. It's not anything any if us really cared to pay attention. ?

And I disagree about the date. I see no reason for Cloud to tell Aerith no just because he told Jessie maybe. It'd bring the scene in the church to a hault if he did do.
 
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Theozilla

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Tennyo said:
Cell phones also existed in the original as well. It's not anything any if us really cared to pay attention. ?
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Yeah, but they weren't as ubiquitous in the mid-90s as they are today, that's undeniable. Back then a poor person not having cellular communication wasn't as much of a suspension of disbelief as it is today.

But regardless, I personally can totally believe even in the Remake that Cloud and poor people in the slums are too poor to afford having cell phones. (plus it not being a form of secure communication within Midgar being another valid explanation)
 
Theozilla

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Tennyo said:
My point was that even with cell phones they didn't see fit to give everyone a phone (even landlines) and the rest of us just didn't dwell on it. :P
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I know that, but there are cultural reasons/differences why we (collectively) didn't dwell on it the 1990s versus the 2020s. Suspension of disbelief as society changes.
 
Jairus

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
lithiumkatana17 said:
Dude.

Cloud is not romantically interested in Jessie. They're never going to be a couple, and a date between them just isn't going to happen at this point.

There is a reason the material you are suggesting be put in the game was not put in the game. Because it's just not going to happen.
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Wrong. If you actually pay attention to his arms and hands when she hugs him late in Chapter 4, you'll see that Cloud starts to reach up to hug her back but catches himself before he can slip out of his cool facade. He often tries to impress her, either with his cool merc talk and attitude or his fighting skills on the bike. She keeps flirting because she knows he doesn't really mean the harsh things he says. It's a front, and she knows it. He's a tsundere, and that means he's not used to warmth and affection like what she gives him and responds in the only way he knows how. And when she kisses him, he's surprised and startled, not uncaring. He's just so stunned he doesn't have any idea how to respond, so he doesn't. That doesn't mean he didn't like it. Also, watch his eye contact with her in the scenes they have together. His eyes follow her practically all the time. So much so that she has to move the materia she's holding in Sector 8 to get him to look at it and away from her.

He also never tells Jessie to stop holding onto him. In one of the bike end scenes, he actually tells her the opposite, to hold on tight. And when she hugged him outside her place, he could have easily pulled her off because of how strong he is as a SOLDIER. But the attempt he made was only half-hearted at best, which means he didn't mind it near as much as he let on. And not only could you choose to have him accept her invitation, the story treats it as the default choice because he mentions it to her later in the pillar, and before she does.

And he does warm to her by the end of Chapter 4. If you watch his face, you'll see he gives her a small smile just before he picks her up (watch how his mouth goes up slightly). And he didn't even have to carry her at all. If he really didn't care about her, he'd have let Barret carry her in or let her lean on Tifa. But he didn't do that. He got down and picked her up all on his own. Also, in the Japanese translation, he's much warmer and more tender to her as well. For instance, from the scene in the pillar:

English
Jessie: My hero... so gentle.
Cloud: Just try to hold on.

Japanese
Jessie: You saved me again...
Cloud: I'll save you as many times as you need.

Also, in Chapter 4 when she makes her invitation:

English
Cloud: Are you seriously that desperate?

Japanese
Cloud: Is this how it's gonna go?

And it was Jessie, not Tifa and not Aerith, that got Cloud to drop his hard edges. She's also the only one of them to have kissed Cloud on screen. Also, he encouraged her when she was down about being off the mission. Sure, that could just be a friend thing, but combine it with everything else and that becomes less certain. Also, how quick he was to agree to her request to cause havoc for her on the mission.

Except, Theo, it's not the mid-90's anymore. And you still haven't addressed the fact that Shinra is never shown with the capability of monitoring phone calls. It's just hard to believe that there wasn't a single landline phone in all of Sector 5. Those would've been cheap enough to be affordable even there. Something should've been said about it to explain why he couldn't call.

Real life people on welfare and such have cellphones, btw. So income being low isn't as much of a barrier as you might think. And about the date, I never said Cloud had to say no. Just that he already had a date and to think of another fee instead. Or just that he had one and leave it at that.
 
Theozilla

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Jairus said:
Except, Theo, it's not the mid-90's anymore. And you still haven't addressed the fact that Shinra is never shown with the capability of monitoring phone calls. It's just hard to believe that there wasn't a single landline phone in all of Sector 5. Those would've been cheap enough to be affordable even there. Something should've been said about it to explain why he couldn't call.

Real life people on welfare and such have cellphones, btw. So income being low isn't as much of a barrier as you might think. And about the date, I never said Cloud had to say no. Just that he already had a date and to think of another fee instead. Or just that he had one and leave it at that.
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I know we're are not in the mid-90s anymore, I just agreed that collective suspension of disbelief has changed. But the Remake is based on a mid-90s narrative, so anachronistic elements are bound to pop up in the Remake is what I am saying. If that breaks your suspension of disbelief so be it.

And I know Shinra isn't shown monitoring phone calls or not, I am saying if you want to create your own Watsonian explanation, it's a viable one since it's entirely believable and in-line with Shinra's practices.
 
Jairus

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
What do you mean, Watsonian? English, please. And nobody, not even the US government, can monitor every single phone in existence. Besides, surely Jessie's smart enough to be able to hack a few phones to keep them encrypted and secure.
 
Jairus

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
I understand what he meant now. I just hadn't heard those terms for it before.
 
Maidenofwar

Maidenofwar

They/Them
Well that's where the balance is right?, before Aerith was known as the one who began to melt Cloud's frosty exterior and highlighted as one who Cloud smiled/laughed with as noted with external materials, etc. It's different here, but to keep things fair they had to give/leave Aerith with something to show she might be an option for Cloud as well. There's been changes to the church and rooftops section, but Cloud and Aerith are not shut down completely and none of Cloud's potential interests are left with it all/everything. There's enough there to bring happiness to Cloud/Aerith people but if Cloud flat out refused Aerith a date that on top of the other changes from earlier might bring sadness/be too much for some people.
 
Odysseus

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
Here's a totally unrelated thought i had: It was retroactively said in Crisis Core that Zack was the one who made the hole in Aerith's roof, but now it is once again Cloud who did it. I guess the rood could have been fixed in the mean time, but given the state of disrepair of the rest of the church, I doubt it.
 
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