FFVII REMAKE CONFIRMED
- Thread starter Elessar
- Start date
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I can never figure out who pays whom in these situations. Is Square paying Ferraro to put FF7 stuff on their candy, or is Ferraro paying Square for the right to do so? Or neither?
oty
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- ex-soldier boy
It's much more complex than simple "greedy evil deals muahahah". Trust me, when people call the gaming industry a "passion driven" one, they are not lying. The higher ups at Square may not give a damn, but the strain that the developers go through in order to make these titles......I mean, if you dont already know, I advise for you to research (and please support unionisation ?).
Makoeyes gave a very insightful look at the way this industry works, and yea, things are tough for tripleA games. These deals can very much help them, and that's something we shouldnt just unknowingly criticise and deem unethical. As every single thing in this capitalistic, and even more "bland", humane society, things are not black and white.
Makoeyes gave a very insightful look at the way this industry works, and yea, things are tough for tripleA games. These deals can very much help them, and that's something we shouldnt just unknowingly criticise and deem unethical. As every single thing in this capitalistic, and even more "bland", humane society, things are not black and white.
Littlewing
Pro Adventurer
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- human
They were driven by different motives and constraints then these days I think if you look at the games up until like, what was it? 13? it's weird. I guess they stopped being as financially viable and the video game industry changed quite drastically and then FF15 took like, 10 years? lol.
Sasseli
~*:Newbie:*~
But couldn’t they still make deals with more ethical companies /products? Why does it always have to be the worst choices? Fans would buy anything, why not make that, idk any example that’d be fit for America... something that fits the narration of the game at least a little, not be totally contrary to it...
I simply wouldn’t buy something like Butterfingers, not for anything, because it goes against my ethics. But that doesn’t seem to be the case for most fans, else they wouldn‘t cooperate with that company.(Is it Nestlé or Ferrero? In Germany they belong to Nestlé.)
I understand why they do such cooperations, but I can still lament it. Personally I’d pay more for the game, if that made such cooperations unnecessary.
I simply wouldn’t buy something like Butterfingers, not for anything, because it goes against my ethics. But that doesn’t seem to be the case for most fans, else they wouldn‘t cooperate with that company.(Is it Nestlé or Ferrero? In Germany they belong to Nestlé.)
I understand why they do such cooperations, but I can still lament it. Personally I’d pay more for the game, if that made such cooperations unnecessary.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Butterfingers and Baby Ruth belong to Ferrero (Leichtenstein), via Ferrara (USA), which used to be owned by Nestle (Switz.) but was sold by them last year, I think. Nestle still own Crunch.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
I live in a threatened rainforest that has been particularly dogged by Nestlé over the last few decades. The fact that they sold their candy bars to Ferraro means scant little to me, but I’m willing to concede that Nestlé doesn’t own the products anymore... but isn’t my saying that something of an equivocation? Do I want this game so badly that I’m willing to compromise on the very values I developed because of the OG?
These questions are as pertinent as asking “is it worth it to kill the planet to pay my electricity bill to power my PS4 in the first place?” But then again... isn’t that the question that all citizens of Midgar should ask themselves every day?
These questions are as pertinent as asking “is it worth it to kill the planet to pay my electricity bill to power my PS4 in the first place?” But then again... isn’t that the question that all citizens of Midgar should ask themselves every day?
Rose_of_Night
Pro Adventurer
Because the shitty corporations tend to offer way more money, and that's what the shareholders want
Sasseli
~*:Newbie:*~
That's why our electricity comes from renewable sources. I know, they're also controversial and not everyone's able to have green energy, but companies and politics have to move in that direction much faster and with more resolution.
Sorry for the ot...
Rose_of_Night I guess so...
Sorry for the ot...
Rose_of_Night I guess so...
Clean Cut Chaos
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Cub Chaos
Choice. They could all have a line to Shinra in the middle.
You have to stand in awe of Unilever to own both dove beauty products and foods that make sure you will need them if eaten regularly.
You have to stand in awe of Unilever to own both dove beauty products and foods that make sure you will need them if eaten regularly.
Sasseli
~*:Newbie:*~
I try to steer clear of all their products and I think I'm doing pretty well. I make most stuff myself, which helps a lot. Buying organic helps, too.
But yeah, it's AWE(ful) to behold. To me, those corporations are the real-life equivalent of Shinra. They may provide a lot of work and taxes, but ultimately they do more harm than good.
But yeah, it's AWE(ful) to behold. To me, those corporations are the real-life equivalent of Shinra. They may provide a lot of work and taxes, but ultimately they do more harm than good.
Clean Cut Chaos
Pro Adventurer
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- Cub Chaos
90% of my food comes from the local Co-op. It's expensive, but it's supporting local farms and not having hundreds of thousands in medical bills later in life more than makes up for the extra 10 or 20 bucks a visit. Plus your body looks good when you treat it right. I'm almost 40 and people are often shocked as they think I'm in my 20s.
Sasseli
~*:Newbie:*~
Clean Cut Chaos
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Cub Chaos
I like people like you!
Clean Cut Chaos
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Cub Chaos
People can point fingers all day long, but if they aren't changing themselves, they aren't changing the world. I have my moments of hypocrisy, but I generally am the change I wish to see.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
...That kind of thinking may help you feel good, but structural issues only get solved by structural solutions.
Personal choices and manifested ethics are great to feel proud about, but they do little in solving the problems that are a result of economic and government policy. Even if every person held the same standard as you (which they don't, and can't due to income inequality, and food availability) that would not change the corporation, company, business or government continuing their system that allows them to prioritize profit and act in the manner that allows them to strip resources and race to the bottom.
That kind of change only happens via government and hard activism, not just choice. Because it's a system that enables and creates these distortions. Not just a bunch of people making poor decisions in diet and corporate support.
Personal choices and manifested ethics are great to feel proud about, but they do little in solving the problems that are a result of economic and government policy. Even if every person held the same standard as you (which they don't, and can't due to income inequality, and food availability) that would not change the corporation, company, business or government continuing their system that allows them to prioritize profit and act in the manner that allows them to strip resources and race to the bottom.
That kind of change only happens via government and hard activism, not just choice. Because it's a system that enables and creates these distortions. Not just a bunch of people making poor decisions in diet and corporate support.
Sasseli
~*:Newbie:*~
I'm totally aware of that. Still, I think if sales and profits plummeted really hard, companies would be forced to change something.
Of course, a bunch of people can hardly change the greater scheme of things, but if I can avoid supporting it, I'll do it.
Especially where I live, many people's opinion goes along the line of: if people didn't buy it, it wouldn't be produced. And I see truth in it, albeit not the whole. I'm aware that the masses won't change, but look at all the vegan foods that have emerged over the last couple years, although there's only, like, 1% vegans.
I think consumers do hold the power, problem is that most simply don't care. Income isn't always the reason, education and compassion are much more important imho (at least that's what I see here). But you're right in that politics and worldwide economics do have to change, or else nothing will...
I hope SE won't cooperate with Nestlé in Germany...
Of course, a bunch of people can hardly change the greater scheme of things, but if I can avoid supporting it, I'll do it.
Especially where I live, many people's opinion goes along the line of: if people didn't buy it, it wouldn't be produced. And I see truth in it, albeit not the whole. I'm aware that the masses won't change, but look at all the vegan foods that have emerged over the last couple years, although there's only, like, 1% vegans.
I think consumers do hold the power, problem is that most simply don't care. Income isn't always the reason, education and compassion are much more important imho (at least that's what I see here). But you're right in that politics and worldwide economics do have to change, or else nothing will...
I hope SE won't cooperate with Nestlé in Germany...
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Sales and profits influence very little in terms of business decisions framed around resource procurement. Sales don't change that. Government regulations and source viability versus costs, are what matter for those decisions. Also partnerships and agreements for the use of GMOs, pesticides, fertilizers, and production costs. That's not consumer driven.
And like I said, those personal choices are good for your own personal ethics and beliefs. But no, a consumer choice does not change or influence what is used in resource extraction or management of where profit goes. Considering that most healthy and organic foods are more expensive, to around the tune of $45 or more a person, that's not even a viable strategy given income inequality, food deserts, the lack of affordable foodstuff, lack of affordable health care or how its difficult for people to even have a living wage. So no. It's not just consumers not caring, it's some can't even afford to care or even have options to buy that food even if they want to. And other businesses in industries completely unrelated, are not going to somehow magically be aware or capable of exerting pressure to change a system that has existed and been globally subsidized for over a century.
Why? Because corporations and agricultural industry don't have any incentive, compulsion or need to create the kind of food that is more expensive to produce, ship, store, package and market. The resources necessary are more expensive, costly, time-intensive, and requires a disentanglement from GMOs and pesticide corporations that are subsidized heavily by the government with government research. Consumers buying or not buying isn't going to make it cheaper or easier to create healthier, environmentally friendly foods or products. Or make it more available for people, which is most important. Only a government incentivizing, mandating, and radically raising the standards would cause that type of change. A person making X choice does nothing to change the system. They're just existing within it.
And like I said, those personal choices are good for your own personal ethics and beliefs. But no, a consumer choice does not change or influence what is used in resource extraction or management of where profit goes. Considering that most healthy and organic foods are more expensive, to around the tune of $45 or more a person, that's not even a viable strategy given income inequality, food deserts, the lack of affordable foodstuff, lack of affordable health care or how its difficult for people to even have a living wage. So no. It's not just consumers not caring, it's some can't even afford to care or even have options to buy that food even if they want to. And other businesses in industries completely unrelated, are not going to somehow magically be aware or capable of exerting pressure to change a system that has existed and been globally subsidized for over a century.
Why? Because corporations and agricultural industry don't have any incentive, compulsion or need to create the kind of food that is more expensive to produce, ship, store, package and market. The resources necessary are more expensive, costly, time-intensive, and requires a disentanglement from GMOs and pesticide corporations that are subsidized heavily by the government with government research. Consumers buying or not buying isn't going to make it cheaper or easier to create healthier, environmentally friendly foods or products. Or make it more available for people, which is most important. Only a government incentivizing, mandating, and radically raising the standards would cause that type of change. A person making X choice does nothing to change the system. They're just existing within it.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
You're right, it is your only weapon and if you feel good and believe it, good 
I just was illustrating that beyond that, a systemic approach is what's needed which probably is best enacted through political change and radical restructuring of the status quo.
But that's neither here nor there.
I just was illustrating that beyond that, a systemic approach is what's needed which probably is best enacted through political change and radical restructuring of the status quo.
But that's neither here nor there.
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
Saw some funny reactions to the candy bar promotion campaign on Twitter
Cloud_S
Pro Adventurer
I feel bad for the Jessie cosplayer not being the focus of the photo, as that's a pretty accurate costume. That and there isn't a single reply left about her/the costume.
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