SPOILERS FFVII Remake Open Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Mayo Master]

Cloud in 1st class outfit is already in the game - double-check Cloud's flashback cutscene with his Mom during chapter 8.
Strange that many people seem to have missed that.

 

[Tetsujin]

Cloud in 1st class outfit is already in the game - double-check Cloud's flashback cutscene with his Mom during chapter 8.
Strange that many people seem to have missed that.

That and the Zack flashback.

 

[cold_spirit]

That and the Zack flashback.

I actually can't find Cloud amongst the rocks during the real-time Zack scenes. The ending scene (where Zack is carrying Cloud) is pre-rendered. I believe his 1st Class outfit is only used during the Mom flashback.

 

[LegendarySaiyan]

Cloud in 1st class outfit is already in the game - double-check Cloud's flashback cutscene with his Mom during chapter 8.
Strange that many people seem to have missed that.

You, my friend are 100% right!

Spoiler: Flashback Nibelheim

Wish we could use that outfit in the game without mods or save editors.. I would get a Save Editor for PS4 if it did not cost $60...

Edit: Also this proves that the YouTuber whom uses this outfit just found its Values with Save Editor and used it. I wonder if anyone have found the Values for Zack and tried to use him?
Ps: No DLC I guess.

 

[DutchDread]

I've heard a lot of talk about proof that Aerith knows the future, and I think the evidence is very compelling, but usually we don't just try to prove a hypothesis, but try to disprove it as well (in fact, that's the most important part).
So with that in mind, shouldn't we also catalog evidence that Aerith doesn't know what happened in the OG?

First thing that came to my mind is that Aerith still asks about Zack and seems hesitant and genuine when bringing it up, which to me indicates that she still doesn't know what happened to him, but is there more? Most instances of Aerith not knowing can be attributed to her not wanting to reveal her knowledge of the future, but subconcious emotional reactions don't really seem to fit that.

She seems to have prior knowledge about Cloud, and meeting him on that day, on the plate dropping, sephiroth, Jenova, and generally about what is going to happen in the next parts. In her CH 14 resolution scene she seems to know that Cloud isn't himself, and I'd assume she knows it's Zack, but that seemingly contradicts her earlier ignorance.

Any more evidence that points to Aerith NOT knowing the future?

 

[Ite]

I didn’t notice that Cloud has two pauldrons in the mom flashback. So we’ll see the Nibelheim flashback with two pauldrons then! Neat.

 

[Yumelinh]

I didn’t notice that Cloud has two pauldrons in the mom flashback. So we’ll see the Nibelheim flashback with two pauldrons then! Neat.

No just the pauldrons, but the gloves are different too. He's pretty much in full Zack attire in that flashback. Very neat indeed.

 

[Eerie]

I don't remember if that has been pointed at, but I watched yet another French youtuber having a go at the Remake, and while he was a fan of the OG and watched AC, he never really went further than that. When he had to fight the Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo whispers, his immediate answer to this was "ohh the Weapons!!! It's the Planet protecting itself!" And then when he read the description, he was like "yup, it's the Weapons, definitely".

And then I thought "ohhh that was their way of implementing the Weapons as a teasing for the real ones???"

I don't know why, the thought never crossed my mind, when clearly I know that it's the way the Planet does protect itself.

 

[Wol]

I don't remember if that has been pointed at, but I watched yet another French youtuber having a go at the Remake, and while he was a fan of the OG and watched AC, he never really went further than that. When he had to fight the Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo whispers, his immediate answer to this was "ohh the Weapons!!! It's the Planet protecting itself!" And then when he read the description, he was like "yup, it's the Weapons, definitely".

And then I thought "ohhh that was their way of implementing the Weapons as a teasing for the real ones???"

I don't know why, the thought never crossed my mind, when clearly I know that it's the way the Planet does protect itself.

The big whisper definitely gives me a kind of protector of time Weapon, the trio not so much imo.

 

[Eerie]

It was the big whisper that made him have the thought, but even the tiny ones have the same colour names in French than the Weapons do. I was like "I was being too meta and missed the most obvious reference "

 

[Wol]

It was the big whisper that made him have the thought, but even the tiny ones have the same colour names in French than the Weapons do. I was like "I was being too meta and missed the most obvious reference "

Oh that's cool, so they're called Whisper Emerald, Ruby?

 

[Eerie]

Yep! I missed the clue in the first playthrough in French that I followed ;_;

 

[KetaKitty]

Any more evidence that points to Aerith NOT knowing the future?

Honestly after re-reading OTWTAS I think it could be those in the lifestream she implanted her memories onto reminding her of specific events, if time has been 'reset'. She wasn't thinking of Zack in the lifestream, but Cloud mostly so it could explain why her memories are focused on him.
Furthermore I think Lifestream White III hints at her wish to go back in time to change things in the way Cloud will listen to her. Reading this post REMAKE makes me think she wished to go back to the busted Mako pipe to try again. Could be her ethereal appearances in AC though, so IDK really. In this case it would be more of those in the lifestream that remember, and she herself does not know the entire future.

 

[ForceStealer]

Cloud's outfit was like the second thing I looked for/noted in the mom flashback

 

[Eerie]

One has to wonder, with such phrasing, if she didn't possess her own body in the past

 

[Saven]

Finally got burned out and had to take a break from everything FFVII-related for a month after that intense pre-release hype and long playthrough lol. Time to start my second playthrough (after I finish up Chapter 4 Hard which is where I stopped. Thankfully only have the plot ghosts left to fight so I can mark that complete for the trophy lol)! Going to start a Normal New Game+ playthrough to get my feet wet so I don't get demolished on Hard.

EDIT: Thank god it was the ghosts that I had left instead of Roche, I am VERY rusty (and was quickly introduced to Hard mode's dumb MP rule when I saw Cloud had only 11MP left )

 

[Yumelinh]

I've heard a lot of talk about proof that Aerith knows the future, and I think the evidence is very compelling, but usually we don't just try to prove a hypothesis, but try to disprove it as well (in fact, that's the most important part).
So with that in mind, shouldn't we also catalog evidence that Aerith doesn't know what happened in the OG?

First thing that came to my mind is that Aerith still asks about Zack and seems hesitant and genuine when bringing it up, which to me indicates that she still doesn't know what happened to him, but is there more? Most instances of Aerith not knowing can be attributed to her not wanting to reveal her knowledge of the future, but subconcious emotional reactions don't really seem to fit that.

She seems to have prior knowledge about Cloud, and meeting him on that day, on the plate dropping, sephiroth, Jenova, and generally about what is going to happen in the next parts. In her CH 14 resolution scene she seems to know that Cloud isn't himself, and I'd assume she knows it's Zack, but that seemingly contradicts her earlier ignorance.

Any more evidence that points to Aerith NOT knowing the future?

Good post! These are very good points in proving that she might not know the future or that she doesn't know it entirely.


I think that at this moment it's difficult to refute that she doesn't have a certain knowledge about what will happen in the future, however, it's the extent of her knowledge and how they work that we still don't know prob? Is she aware of everything that will happen from now until AC/C? or things are revealed to her as she goes? Like meeting Cloud "triggered" her knowledge about him and so on?

Honestly, the tricky part here for me is her resolution scene because that requires knowledge of a far-future from part 1 while, as you mentioned, her questions about Zack and her reactions to the mention of his name seems to imply that she isn't fully aware of the whole story.

 

[DutchDread]

Good post! These are very good points in proving that she might not know the future or that she doesn't know it entirely.


I think that at this moment it's difficult to refute that she doesn't have a certain knowledge about what will happen in the future, however, it's the extent of her knowledge and how they work that we still don't know prob? Is she aware of everything that will happen from now until AC/C? or things are revealed to her as she goes? Like meeting Cloud "triggered" her knowledge about him and so on?

Honestly, the tricky part here for me is her resolution scene because that requires knowledge of a far-future from part 1 while but, as you said, her questions about Zack and her reactions to the mention of his name seems to imply that she isn't fully aware of the whole story.

My guess is that she got sent very limited information, but that more and more puzzle pieces fall into place as she experiences more.
I think a in depth investigation on all her lines is needed honestly.


Her first few lines when she gives Cloud she shows obvious knowledge about Cloud, she also talks about giving the flower to his girlfriend, but I don't think this is an explicit reference to Tifa, although I think that when Cloud mentions her name, these might be pieces of her memory falling into place. Like she had a general memory of "Tifa, good, Cloud" or something, but didn't really place who Tifa was, or her role, until Cloud mentioned her, and she met her.


Aeriths first words on reuniting with Cloud in the church are obviously bullshit, she KNOWS he's a mercenary, and clearly knows he was her bodyguard in the OG. Now again, these could be some flashes of memory like "Cloud, mercenary...my bodyguard". But in this case, it feels even more like she's trying to directly recreate her meeting with Cloud in the OG. She seems a lot more sure of this.

I just get the distinct impression that only things that are clear in her mind are the things impacting HER destiny, the things that the whispers would actively try to make sure happen, the things that define her destiny.
She knows Cloud, she knows Sephiroth, she knows Jenova. But when it comes to things like Tifas identity, that's more of a shadow falling into place. Things like Zacks fate, that's her personal interest, it's not relevant to her task at hand, while the fact that Cloud is not himself, perhaps is.

 

[Yumelinh]

My guess is that she got sent very limited information, but that more and more puzzle pieces fall into place as she experiences more.
I think a in depth investigation on all her lines is needed honestly.


Her first few lines when she gives Cloud she shows obvious knowledge about Cloud, she also talks about giving the flower to his girlfriend, but I don't think this is an explicit reference to Tifa, although I think that when Cloud mentions her name, these might be pieces of her memory falling into place. Like she had a general memory of "Tifa, good, Cloud" or something, but didn't really place who Tifa was, or her role, until Cloud mentioned her, and she met her.


Aeriths first words on reuniting with Cloud in the church are obviously bullshit, she KNOWS he's a mercenary, and clearly knows he was her bodyguard in the OG. Now again, these could be some flashes of memory like "Cloud, mercenary...my bodyguard". But in this case, it feels even more like she's trying to directly recreate her meeting with Cloud in the OG. She seems a lot more sure of this.

I just get the distinct impression that only things that are clear in her mind are the things impacting HER destiny, the things that the whispers would actively try to make sure happen, the things that define her destiny.
She knows Cloud, she knows Sephiroth, she knows Jenova. But when it comes to things like Tifas identity, that's more of a shadow falling into place. Things like Zacks fate, that's her personal interest, it's not relevant to her task at hand, while the fact that Cloud is not himself, perhaps is.

Yes, that could be it. And I agree with you that we should definitely look more in-depth at what she said and how she reacted at certain events. I'm not 100% convinced that she knows everything exactly because there are some things that simply don't add up as of now.

For example, when Cloud asked if she knew who Sephiroth is, she gave a simple and straightforward answer about what she had heard about him, but when Cloud mentioned that he thinks Sephiroth might be alive, then she reacted like...things just started to make sense at that moment.

If I had to guess from what we know from Part 1, I think Aerith may be experiencing the same thing Cloud is (he sees glimpses of the future a few times during the game when triggered by a similar event), but due to her Ancient powers (on due to her 'past' self in the Lifestream?), these views are stronger and clearer for her than Cloud's visions are for him.

As for Sephiroth, I would say that he's definitely aware of everything. At least the one that appears at the Edge of Creation.


As for Zack, do you think she may be in denial of his death as she seemed to be in OG? We know from Elmyra's story that she can definitely sense when someone dies, and CC implied that she felt Zack's death. So, even without her "foresight" powers, she should know that he's in the lifestream now.

Edit: add Zack's part... and Sergio is Sephy btw, my autocorrect just love to name him like this XD

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The bit in Lifestream White is a contrast to what Sephiroth is doing in AC I think. The full context of that quote is this.

He was apparently going to use separate entities to be his agents. The woman asked herself if she could do the same. However, she soon changed her mind. Even if it were possible, I want to meet Cloud the way he knows me.

Aerith is asking herself if she should make separate entities from herself outside of the Lifestream to do her will. Just like Sephiroth made Loz, Yazoo and Kadaj. But Aerith also wants to know that Cloud knows who she is if she ever runs into him. So she ultimately doesn't do what Sephiroth did.

What Aerith wants ends up happening when Cloud sees her (and Zack) in the Lifestream and knows who she is immediately. It's yet another example of Aerith and Sephiroth being able to do similar things, but making different decisions about doing them.

 

[Theozilla]

Apparently Remake data-miners discovered an unused Tseng model. Wonder why they weren’t able to use it for the flashback? (also does 19 indicated that it took 4 years for Shinra, or at least Tseng’s first visit, to find Aerith at Elmyra’s?)

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270518987776909313

 

[DutchDread]

Yes, that could be it. And I agree with you that we should definitely look more in-depth at what she said and how she reacted at certain events. I'm not 100% convinced that she knows everything exactly because there are some things that simply don't add up as of now.

For example, when Cloud asked if she knew who Sephiroth is, she gave a simple and straightforward answer about what she had heard about him, but when Cloud mentioned that he thinks Sephiroth might be alive, then she reacted like...things just started to make sense at that moment.

If I had to guess from what we know from Part 1, I think Aerith may be experiencing the same thing Cloud is (he sees glimpses of the future a few times during the game when triggered by a similar event), but due to her Ancient powers (on due to her 'past' self in the Lifestream?), these views are stronger and clearer for her than Cloud's visions are for him.

As for Sephiroth, I would say that he's definitely aware of everything. At least the one that appears at the Edge of Creation.


As for Zack, do you think she may be in denial of his death as she seemed to be in OG? We know from Elmyra's story that she can definitely sense when someone dies, and CC implied that she felt Zack's death. So, even without her "foresight" powers, she should know that he's in the lifestream now.

Edit: add Zack's part... and Sergio is Sephy btw, my autocorrect just love to name him like this XD

I definitely think she's in denial of Zack, that just seems the same as in the OG. Sephiroth definitely knows more than Aerith. When Aerith answers Cloud about who Sephiroth is I just feel like she straight up lied, even in my first playthrough it felt like that to me for some reason.

I think the most logical time for Aerith to get information is when she's praying, we see that way more in this version than in the OG, the most obvious time being I think when she's praying in the midst of the plotghosts and says "follow them, the yellow flowers".
Her just getting visions while communing with the planet is the explanation that requires the least explaining (none, actually), and that seems like the kind of cryptic shit that doesn't fall into place until you see more of the puzzle.

The only question then is how much of those visions come from future Aerith, how much is just her interpreting the lifestream itself (and it's control of destiny), and is it just THIS Aerith seeing things, or could she actually be said to be part future Aerith (which depending on the vividness of the visions might be a meaningless distinction).

 

[Yumelinh]

I definitely think she's in denial of Zack, that just seems the same as in the OG. Sephiroth definitely knows more than Aerith. When Aerith answers Cloud about who Sephiroth is I just feel like she straight up lied, even in my first playthrough it felt like that to me for some reason.

Yeah, If we go by CC ending she at least has a clue that Zack might be dead ( and it ties up with her reaction/lines at the end of the game). But now that I think of it...Aerith's questioning Cloud about Zack might be her way of trying to infer if both of them have a connection/know each other ( but then again, it would only make sense if she wasn't aware of who Cloud is at that moment, which doesn't seem to be the case).

As for her straight up lying.. that could be it indeed. But I found weird that she doesn't react when asked about Sephiroth, but only when Cloud mentions that he might be alive, maybe she didn't expect him to know this by now?

I think the most logical time for Aerith to get information is when she's praying, we see that way more in this version than in the OG, the most obvious time being I think when she's praying in the midst of the plotghosts and says "follow them, the yellow flowers".
Her just getting visions while communing with the planet is the explanation that requires the least explaining (none, actually), and that seems like the kind of cryptic shit that doesn't fall into place until you see more of the puzzle.

The only question then is how much of those visions come from future Aerith, how much is just her interpreting the lifestream itself (and it's control of destiny), and is it just THIS Aerith seeing things, or could she actually be said to be part future Aerith (which depending on the vividness of the visions might be a meaningless distinction).

That's a very good point. If OG!Aerith became one with the lifestream by the end of AC/C and Remake is somehow "OG but repeating itself", then isn't so far fetched to believe that she can access her OG memories somehow simply because they're part of the lifestream now.

But in the end, they can easily explain her foresight powers due to her being a Cetra, but what about Cloud? He shouldn't be seeing visions of the future either...is it because of his Jenova Cells? Is it the fact that he's connected with Sephiroth (and he's messing up with past/present/future) that is kinda allowing him to have such visions?

 

[DutchDread]

Yeah, If we go by CC ending she at least has a clue that Zack might be dead ( and it ties up with her reaction/lines at the end of the game). But now that I think of it...Aerith's questioning Cloud about Zack might be her way of trying to infer if both of them have a connection/know each other ( but then again, it would only make sense if she wasn't aware of who Cloud is at that moment, which doesn't seem to be the case).

As for her straight up lying.. that could be it indeed. But I found weird that she doesn't react when asked about Sephiroth, but only when Cloud mentions that he might be alive, maybe she didn't expect him to know this by now?




That's a very good point. If OG!Aerith became one with the lifestream by the end of AC/C and Remake is somehow "OG but repeating itself", then isn't so far fetched to believe that she can access her OG memories somehow simply because they're part of the lifestream now.

But in the end, they can easily explain her foresight powers due to her being a Cetra, but what about Cloud? He shouldn't be seeing visions of the future either...is it because of his Jenova Cells? Is it the fact that he's connected with Sephiroth (and he's messing up with past/present/future) that is kinda allowing him to have such visions?

I think Clouds future visions aren't a huge mystery, like you said, we know Sephiroth can send Cloud visions through the Jenova cells, and we know Sephiroth knows the future, so that potentially checks out. Although it could still be that the origin of the future visions is something totally different, who knows, but at least potentially, this makes perfect sense, the better question would be "why these visions in particular".

 

[Yumelinh]

I think Clouds future visions aren't a huge mystery, like you said, we know Sephiroth can send Cloud visions through the Jenova cells, and we know Sephiroth knows the future, so that potentially checks out. Although it could still be that the origin of the future visions is something totally different, who knows, but at least potentially, this makes perfect sense, the better question would be "why these visions in particular".

True! why these visions in particular seem to be the tricky part here. From what I can recall his "future" visions were the plate dropping and when he shed a tear when he meets Aerith again after leaving her house at night ( idk if we can count the ones he had after they went through that portal because everyone was experiencing future visions there). So, both of these were 'bad' future events that he couldn't prevent in OG, and well... the plate dropped so there's only Aerith vision to be fulfilled...?!