Pizzachu
SOLDIER Fan
I've been searching for that info, but I still can't find it...
FFVIIR at TGS 2019 (NEW TRAILER!)
- Thread starter Shademp
- Start date
I've been searching for that info, but I still can't find it...
Jairus
Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
Ody, I can understand that and I share your hope for her character to be explored more in the remake. But remember that in the OG, we saw Cloud laughing and joking with Aerith after getting away from Reno in the church and while they were on the junk piles. So he is capable of being lighthearted and caring and I hope we get to see more of that smart-aleck side of him. And a date scene like you suggested, with Jessie as an option - maybe the default, given her ultimate fate and that this is her only game in the series. I don't think that Cloud would be looking for anything romantic initially, I get that his mind's a bit frazzled at this point, but he is coherent enough to walk and talk and swing a sword and function as a person in most respects, so it's not impossible that it could find him, though he'd probably be at a bit of a loss for a while about how to handle it, feelings he wasn't expecting and all. And don't forget, he was able to flirt back with Jessie in the OG, so it's likely he'll be able to do that in the remake as well. And you don't usually flirt with someone you're not at least somewhat attracted to. And you get to talk to her when she's wounded in the pillar in the OG, so I'm sure she'll have a last scene with Cloud in much the same way in the remake, though likely greatly expanded and probably after we actually see what happens to her. So she could still work as a love interest.
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
Boy, you ship this hard. I respect that! I guess my impression of Cloud and Jessie is colored by the fact that most of his interactions with her are while he's still in full hard-ass mode. It's not until meeting Aerith that he begins to really lighten up, and after that point he doesn't seeJessie again until she dies. There's certainly a lot of room for the remake to expand on that relationship, and it's obvious she's getting focused on in trailers. I look forward to seeing how this all goes, March can't come soon enough!
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Well... in the OG, Jessie's role was to misdirect the player's expectations into a false love triangle with Tifa, Cloud and Jessie. But Cloud never really shows much interest in her; the interest is all from Jessie. Then she dies, but by the time she dies the player has realised she's not a playable (i.e., main) character, so her death doesn't represent a huge loss. After Biggs, Wedge and Jessie die, we think that maybe that's everyone we're going to lose. Jessie's death is like the statue of Jenova's face that Sephiroth has to rip away to reveal the real, much uglier reality behind: the reality of losing someone who is integral to you, who really matters to you: Aerith.
Don Corneo's Dungeon
Pro Adventurer
I wonder if we will find out Biggs, Jesse and Wedge's surnames....
and the Turks for that matter!
and the Turks for that matter!
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
No Turk surnames!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jairus
Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
So, Lic, you're saying she shouldn't matter in the remake, either? We shouldn't care or let her or the others matter? Or their loss? They said they were changing things, so they may not happen in the same way in the remake. And you did have the option to flirt with her in the OG, which will likely also be doable in the remake. So they could have Cloud feel something for her this time to add to her loss. I did think she was going to be a love interest for Cloud the first time I played the OG, and I know I'm not the only one. Some of us liked that idea and her, but we had to accept that it just wasn't happening and couldn't happen. Now another chance has been given. How do you think that feels? To have something you once thought impossible suddenly made possible again? To be given the chance to see and experience something you weren't allowed to before?
I've always had a bit of a soft spot for FF characters, especially the girls, that tend to get overlooked and overshadowed and forgotten most of the time simply because they're not one of the playable cast - Jessie, Ellone, Mikoto, those sorts of characters. And the chance to see one of them get the spotlight she never really had before and possibly a love arc she was originally denied excites me and makes me happy. If anything, Jessie's always the one who's been overshadowed by Aerith and Tifa (and even Yuffie). Aerith and Tifa have boatloads of fans, hires renders, a scenario where they get to be all glamoured up and fancily dressed, playability, and a guaranteed spot in future remake installments. What does Jessie have? Hardly any of that. Some fans, yes, but that's about it. Part 1 is her only game in the series, her only opportunity to shine and have what she was never able to before and perhaps come closer to a more equal level to the other two. So she should be allowed to. Just give the possibility of her being a love interest for Cloud in this one part of the series a chance. Give her a chance. You might be surprised.
I've always had a bit of a soft spot for FF characters, especially the girls, that tend to get overlooked and overshadowed and forgotten most of the time simply because they're not one of the playable cast - Jessie, Ellone, Mikoto, those sorts of characters. And the chance to see one of them get the spotlight she never really had before and possibly a love arc she was originally denied excites me and makes me happy. If anything, Jessie's always the one who's been overshadowed by Aerith and Tifa (and even Yuffie). Aerith and Tifa have boatloads of fans, hires renders, a scenario where they get to be all glamoured up and fancily dressed, playability, and a guaranteed spot in future remake installments. What does Jessie have? Hardly any of that. Some fans, yes, but that's about it. Part 1 is her only game in the series, her only opportunity to shine and have what she was never able to before and perhaps come closer to a more equal level to the other two. So she should be allowed to. Just give the possibility of her being a love interest for Cloud in this one part of the series a chance. Give her a chance. You might be surprised.
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LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I think there are many ways to make us care about her aside from making her a major love interest for Cloud. If we can care about Biggs and Wedge even though they're not love interests, why can't we care about Jessie as a person in her own right?
If she's going to have a love arc, I'd like to see her crush on Cloud slowly changing into a more realistic romantic connection with Biggs. If the two of them died just as they discovered they truly loved each other, that would pretty damn painful and poignant, don't you think?
I know you don't mean to do this, but your posts are somewhat implying that if a girl doesn't have a love story, she has no story at all.
If she's going to have a love arc, I'd like to see her crush on Cloud slowly changing into a more realistic romantic connection with Biggs. If the two of them died just as they discovered they truly loved each other, that would pretty damn painful and poignant, don't you think?
I know you don't mean to do this, but your posts are somewhat implying that if a girl doesn't have a love story, she has no story at all.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
Plus from FF30th material it say-
“Aerith’s warm cheer begins to melt Cloud’s frosty exterior. ” I don't know it took years literally decades for some people to admit or believe Cloud had -any- feeling for Aerith, Tifa, /both girls throwing Jessie in there I don't know I really don't know.
There's a lot more to it than just church scene/promise scene early game, for Aerith for example it's been highlighted by SE about the scene where it's the first time in the game Cloud laughs/smiles/etc, that she's the one that begins to get him to open up, melt his frosty exterior, etc, she's "special" in that sense/it's supposed to be a defining moment for the player that wow here's Cloud laughing, and smiling, etc when he was more of an ass, etc before ?With Tifa there's the whole deal of going to help her re- the don and wall market and what nots, furthering developing the "helping her when she's in a bind", etc, elements, there sector 5 reactors, stuffs, and so on.
“Aerith’s warm cheer begins to melt Cloud’s frosty exterior. ” I don't know it took years literally decades for some people to admit or believe Cloud had -any- feeling for Aerith, Tifa, /both girls throwing Jessie in there I don't know I really don't know.
There's a lot more to it than just church scene/promise scene early game, for Aerith for example it's been highlighted by SE about the scene where it's the first time in the game Cloud laughs/smiles/etc, that she's the one that begins to get him to open up, melt his frosty exterior, etc, she's "special" in that sense/it's supposed to be a defining moment for the player that wow here's Cloud laughing, and smiling, etc when he was more of an ass, etc before ?With Tifa there's the whole deal of going to help her re- the don and wall market and what nots, furthering developing the "helping her when she's in a bind", etc, elements, there sector 5 reactors, stuffs, and so on.
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Erotic Materia
[CONFUSED SCREAMING]
@Jairus, I have no doubt this will earn me your ire, but I gotta say it.
You're monopolizing this thread with pipe dreams about the possibility of romancing Jessie.
It's entirely possible, I'll admit. The first episode is set entirely in Midgar, so the amount of time available to flesh out Jessie's story (among others) definitely leaves room for that eventuality. I'd even argue that SE might work that angle in order to have a lesser version of Aerith's death. Only, I highly doubt Cloud would show any real interest himself, at least outwardly. To me it makes more sense if she were this girl who was clearly smitten with a hardass SOLDIER who never gives her any more consideration than anyone else. Later, when fighting their way up the support beam, and Cloud finds Jessie dying, he grieves for her, maybe feels bad for not having returned her affection. But that's it. Girl becomes enamored with guy, guy doesn't care, girl keeps trying anyway, girl dies. Cue waterworks.
Getting away from all that, I don't have a problem with the idea of romancing Jessie (although, I feel it's a big departure from the theme of the OG). It's an interesting idea, and maybe one day you'll get to lord it over all of us if SE decides to take that route. But in the meantime, you're getting way too invested in fighting back against anyone that disagrees with you on this. You have an idea that you'd like to see become reality. Others don't share that view (myself among them, for the most part). And rather than acknowledge that there are differing opinions on this (and they are opinions, as we have no real evidence to point one way or the other), you've railed against any dissent with at least 10 different posts.
Just agree to disagree and let it go. Of all the things that we can and do focus our navel-gazing on, is this really the hill you wanna die on?
You're monopolizing this thread with pipe dreams about the possibility of romancing Jessie.
It's entirely possible, I'll admit. The first episode is set entirely in Midgar, so the amount of time available to flesh out Jessie's story (among others) definitely leaves room for that eventuality. I'd even argue that SE might work that angle in order to have a lesser version of Aerith's death. Only, I highly doubt Cloud would show any real interest himself, at least outwardly. To me it makes more sense if she were this girl who was clearly smitten with a hardass SOLDIER who never gives her any more consideration than anyone else. Later, when fighting their way up the support beam, and Cloud finds Jessie dying, he grieves for her, maybe feels bad for not having returned her affection. But that's it. Girl becomes enamored with guy, guy doesn't care, girl keeps trying anyway, girl dies. Cue waterworks.
Getting away from all that, I don't have a problem with the idea of romancing Jessie (although, I feel it's a big departure from the theme of the OG). It's an interesting idea, and maybe one day you'll get to lord it over all of us if SE decides to take that route. But in the meantime, you're getting way too invested in fighting back against anyone that disagrees with you on this. You have an idea that you'd like to see become reality. Others don't share that view (myself among them, for the most part). And rather than acknowledge that there are differing opinions on this (and they are opinions, as we have no real evidence to point one way or the other), you've railed against any dissent with at least 10 different posts.
Just agree to disagree and let it go. Of all the things that we can and do focus our navel-gazing on, is this really the hill you wanna die on?
Jairus
Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
I didn't say she couldn't have a story apart from the love arc. Of course she should. Maiden, who's to say SE can't allow Jess to do a little of that thawing this time since we'll have more time with her? It would make sense to do so. And the OG is only a baseline now, EM. An outline. We know there will be changes. So you can't go completely by that. But the fact that he was capable of flirting back in the OG and likely will be able to in the remake shows that he is capable of having feelings like that even at that point. Like I said before, he probably wouldn't know what to make of it at first. But things could happen - some solo scenes and some missions with just them without Biggs and Wedge, for instance - to push them both closer in that way without actually going full-on romantic until the end when he loses her and finally understands what it is he feels just as he has to say goodbye, much like what happened with Aerith in the OG.
Another thing I forgot to mention before is that the only other woman besides Jessie that SE has shown with Cloud on a bike has been a love interest (Tifa in ACC), so the idea of showing him and a love interest on a bike together actually has precedent within the FFVII universe itself and shouldn't be discounted. And Lic, you forget that Cloud is the last one that Jess sees and talks with, not Biggs. He's much farther down on the pillar. So your scenario doesn't seem likely because of that. And EM, going by what I said earlier about Tifa's dialogue at the start of the TGS trailer when she calls out to Barret and Jessie actually most likely being from when Tifa and Cloud reach the top of the pillar, it seems Jessie will be alive and with Barret when you get the top and we'll see on screen what happens to her instead of finding her after the fact.
I wouldn't feel so defensive and the need to respond so much if I didn't feel like I was being ganged up on, if some of you would at least try to keep an open mind about it and not be so automatically opposed to it but would give it a fair chance and say as much. I know it's alright to have a different opinion and that there are different opinions. I just don't want to feel like I'm being overwhelmed and outnumbered and not listened to just because I think differently. That just makes me keep responding, because I feel like I'm not being understood or people aren't reading everything I've said or aren't taking it seriously.
Another thing I forgot to mention before is that the only other woman besides Jessie that SE has shown with Cloud on a bike has been a love interest (Tifa in ACC), so the idea of showing him and a love interest on a bike together actually has precedent within the FFVII universe itself and shouldn't be discounted. And Lic, you forget that Cloud is the last one that Jess sees and talks with, not Biggs. He's much farther down on the pillar. So your scenario doesn't seem likely because of that. And EM, going by what I said earlier about Tifa's dialogue at the start of the TGS trailer when she calls out to Barret and Jessie actually most likely being from when Tifa and Cloud reach the top of the pillar, it seems Jessie will be alive and with Barret when you get the top and we'll see on screen what happens to her instead of finding her after the fact.
I wouldn't feel so defensive and the need to respond so much if I didn't feel like I was being ganged up on, if some of you would at least try to keep an open mind about it and not be so automatically opposed to it but would give it a fair chance and say as much. I know it's alright to have a different opinion and that there are different opinions. I just don't want to feel like I'm being overwhelmed and outnumbered and not listened to just because I think differently. That just makes me keep responding, because I feel like I'm not being understood or people aren't reading everything I've said or aren't taking it seriously.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I couldn't care less about learning their surnames, but why the vehement opposition to it? Just curious
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Jairus, I have kept an open mind. I'm not automatically opposed to it. This isn't some knee-jerk reaction on my part due to my failure to read your arguments carefully. I have read all your posts and I have thought things through. And I still don't agree with you. Are you sure you're not falling into the trap of thinking that if only we really understood what you're saying, we'd agree?
TBH I don't see why the fact that Cloud is the last person Jessie talks to makes a developing romance between her and Biggs impossible. For one thing, perhaps in the remake Biggs will be the last person Jessie talks to. Secondly, just because two people are in love with each other it doesn't automatically follow that they die side by side or that each makes sure the other is the last they speak to before they die. Imagine the poignancy of Biggs telling Cloud to, "Tell Jessie I love her...."
Let's be clear. I have no reason to suppose SE is planning a romance between Biggs and Jessie. All I'm saying is that I personally would prefer that to Jessie and Cloud developing a romance. Your preference is different - and you're mustering every argument you can think of to "prove" that SE "ought" to have a Cloud/Jessie romance because it "makes sense". Nobody wants to stop you from wishing for this development; of course you're entitled to your preferences. Where we disagree with you is in the suggestion that such a development Makes Sense and would be A Good Thing.
Re Turk surnames. It's all part of their mystique to have just one name.... A code name....
TBH I don't see why the fact that Cloud is the last person Jessie talks to makes a developing romance between her and Biggs impossible. For one thing, perhaps in the remake Biggs will be the last person Jessie talks to. Secondly, just because two people are in love with each other it doesn't automatically follow that they die side by side or that each makes sure the other is the last they speak to before they die. Imagine the poignancy of Biggs telling Cloud to, "Tell Jessie I love her...."
Let's be clear. I have no reason to suppose SE is planning a romance between Biggs and Jessie. All I'm saying is that I personally would prefer that to Jessie and Cloud developing a romance. Your preference is different - and you're mustering every argument you can think of to "prove" that SE "ought" to have a Cloud/Jessie romance because it "makes sense". Nobody wants to stop you from wishing for this development; of course you're entitled to your preferences. Where we disagree with you is in the suggestion that such a development Makes Sense and would be A Good Thing.
Re Turk surnames. It's all part of their mystique to have just one name.... A code name....
Erotic Materia
[CONFUSED SCREAMING]
Erotic Materia
[CONFUSED SCREAMING]
Maybe you're just an outlier? By saying "if you would just give it a chance", you're telling people to agree with you. People have already conceded the possibility (or at least, I have... I don't feel like digging through all the other posts on this). In my eyes, that's giving it enough of a chance.
I haven't heard anyone outright raging against the thought, they just don't see it as a likely scenario. No one's screaming "But muh Cloud would never! This is blasphemy!"
Everyone has been very clear on their stances and why they hold them. You especially so. But you can't just expect people to change camps because you keep arguing over and over that "you just need to give it a chance!" Because the reality is that, no, I don't have to do anything. I have my own thoughts on what I think is likely, on what fits with the overarching themes, and I'm not going to change that simply because someone else on the internet doesn't like it.
So, your two options are :
1- Accept that some of us disagree with you, and move on
or
2- Get progressively angrier when your carefully worded responses continue to fail to pull people over to your way of thinking.
I'd go with option 1, if I were you. Less stressful. And I'm aaallll about avoiding stress.
Jairus
Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
I wasn't saying anyone had to do anything, EM. I was just asking. There's a difference. And no, Lic, believing something isn't a good idea and doesn't make sense isn't giving it a chance. It's being already decided on it. Giving something a chance means not deciding on it one way or another before you actually see it. You said you conceded the possibility, EM, but you still went on about how you didn't like it anyway. That, like I said, isn't giving it a chance, but already deciding about it. I'm just asking you not to do that.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
No, I thought about it and came to a conclusion. Have you never given someone else's position due consideration and come to the conclusion that they're wrong? You seem to be saying that every time we think about something with an open mind we must come to the conclusion that it makes sense, since according to you it's impossible to give an argument due reflection and then conclude that it doesn't make sense. I have thought about your argument, I have not changed my original position as a result of it, and you're saying that means I have a closed mind and didn't give your idea a chance. If you think about that for a minute you might see why it's a rather insulting patronising thing to say.
Just to be clear: your liking Cloud/Jessie and wanting a romance to develop between them totally makes sense, and nobody wants to stifle your enthusiasm for it. Claiming that it's the most logical path for the Remake to take and that we should all be onboard with it is what doesn't make sense.
Just to be clear: your liking Cloud/Jessie and wanting a romance to develop between them totally makes sense, and nobody wants to stifle your enthusiasm for it. Claiming that it's the most logical path for the Remake to take and that we should all be onboard with it is what doesn't make sense.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Not preferring something and "giving it a chance" are not mutually exclusive. You can think something is a bad idea but still be willing to see how it turns out. But this has been more than exhaustively discussed. Let's drop it and move on. Feel free to start a CloudxJessie thread in Clubs. I have no doubt there's been a spike in fanart from like-minded individuals.
In other observations, Lex, Tetsujin and I discuss this in our soon-to-be-released trailer analysis. But I really enjoy that the hallucination of Sephiroth causes Cloud to forget his surroundings and draw his sword somewhere without the room, banging it on the door frame. It shows how all-consuming the hallucination is. And certainly has implications for...another occasion where he draws his sword when he shouldn't.
In other observations, Lex, Tetsujin and I discuss this in our soon-to-be-released trailer analysis. But I really enjoy that the hallucination of Sephiroth causes Cloud to forget his surroundings and draw his sword somewhere without the room, banging it on the door frame. It shows how all-consuming the hallucination is. And certainly has implications for...another occasion where he draws his sword when he shouldn't.
Erotic Materia
[CONFUSED SCREAMING]
Ok, I'm done with this pedantry and your complete unwillingness to let people be.
So, my opinion, boiled down: SE isn't going to give the option to romance Jessie.
That's it. It's not a feeling, it's not about what I like, it's what I think will be in the game.
Take what you want from that, I'm finished talking about this topic.
Erotic Materia
[CONFUSED SCREAMING]
OH MAN! I hope so! Not to toot my own horn, but that was one of the very first things I ever posted when I joined the forums. I think that'd be a great way to freshen up that infamous scene for the OG veterans.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Yes, though I don't know if there should be a flawless hallucination in that case. The ability to press other buttons to struggle against it was powerful little piece of design. But you could absolutely involve a hallucination (I don't think Sephiroth was directly moving his hands for him after all), to make it a very stressful sequence.
Erotic Materia
[CONFUSED SCREAMING]
I wonder... do you think the "Watchmen of Fate" might have a hand in this? I don't really understand the role they'll play, to be honest.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I like it.
(Not so sure about the Watchmen of Fate, tho. We'll have to wait and see).
(Not so sure about the Watchmen of Fate, tho. We'll have to wait and see).
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
On another note: I really loved the stuff with the Summons and the fact that environment can play a role. In the fight with Aps, you can see Ifrit lighting the boss on fire, but he dives into the water to put out the fire and things like that, so not just the enemy type/weaknesses, but also environmental factors of the battle itself can impact how things work out.
I didn't notice it the first time I watched it, but upon reviewing the footage again, there's some neat stuff like that that I think will make a lot of the fights feel more interesting or unique than they would otherwise.
X
I didn't notice it the first time I watched it, but upon reviewing the footage again, there's some neat stuff like that that I think will make a lot of the fights feel more interesting or unique than they would otherwise.
X