FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH ANNOUNCED

[Odysseus]

I've become aware that the idea that Zack is, in fact, still dead, is a very popular theory even now. I've officially decided I must be the crazy one.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's the beauty of Schrodinger's Zack.

He's simultaneously dead (relative to Cloud's past) and alive (relative to the ending where in that past he survived).

Zack is dead and alive depending on where you observe him.

 

[Odysseus]

I've just seen a huge resurgence of "Zack is dead and in the life stream and him living was a red herring" over on Twitter lol. I really thought that theory fell out of fashion.

 

[Makoeyes987]

They more than likely aren't aware of the FFVII Remake Ultimania which is honestly the only primary source that says with certainty that Zack survived and defied his fate. For those not-in-the-know, it can appear ambiguous and mysterious enough to look like it's the hereafter.

It's a bit strange to think the Lifestream would be that much of a... Traditional looking afterlife or that a fake Cloud would somehow be traveling with him in said afterlife, but I can see how the surreal surroundings of the setting might make someone think that.

But that Zack is alive. That's the hook.

 

[Odysseus]

My main thing is that we already saw what Zack saw after dying, Angeal coming down to get him. And besides that, Zack could go on afterlife adventures with or without time ghosts being involved, so assuming Zack is dead thematically severs that scene from the context it's presented in.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That makes sense

It is also pretty interesting that the white feather from Crisis Core's ending is seemingly following Zack as he carries Cloud to Midgar. Dunno if that represents Angeal watching over him or some sort of omen, but it's something.

I find it unnerving, personally.

 

[cold_spirit]

Personally, I don't see the white feather as representing Angeal, though I can see why that connection is made. I'd be surprised if Angeal plays any role in Rebirth beyond flashbacks.

We see it blow off screen in Crisis Core after Zack delivers his final "would you say I became a hero" line. Now, 15 years later, we see it blow by Zack and Cloud after his survival. It's like a continuation. To me, the white feather just symbolizes how Zack's journey is continuing.

Fun fact: a black feather is featured in Remake's reveal trailer.

 

[Odysseus]

Angeal is like "Zack no come back I drive all the way here to get you".

Yeah I dunno how to take the feather yet. White feathers usually represent Angeal so it could be a nod to the original fate of Zack, or it could represent Angeal being his guardian Angeal, like you said.

Or something else I dunno.

That makes sense

It is also pretty interesting that the white feather from Crisis Core's ending is seemingly following Zack as he carries Cloud to Midgar. Dunno if that represents Angeal watching over him or some sort of omen, but it's something.

I find it unnerving, personally.

 

[Wol]

Does Minerva have anything to do with Zaxks. I think she also have white feathers.

 

[kuroudo]

idk if zack its alive or death, but it is a coincidence that at the end of the dlc when zack enters into the church the background is the same as in advent children when he and aerith appear in the church.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I doubt it's Minerva. Minerva can shoot feathers at you, violently and with murderous intent.

Angeal is represented by white feathers and it could be a positive thing... But the overall context makes me think it's more complicated than that.

In the CC ending, Angeal came to guide Zack to death and help him pass on. He was in essence, a psychopomp. That feather represented Angeal coming for Zack so... It seems really odd that the feather is still following him. Almost like it's waiting.

I know if I just barely escaped death, I'd feel very unnerved by the symbol representing my passing on, was still tailing me.

 

[Odysseus]

idk if zack its alive or death, but it is a coincidence that at the end of the dlc when zack enters into the church the background is the same as in advent children when he and aerith appear in the church.

Why is outside the church not blindingly white when we see him outside it then

 

[Makoeyes987]

Personally, I don't see the white feather as representing Angeal, though I can see why that connection is made. I'd be surprised if Angeal plays any role in Rebirth beyond flashbacks.

We see it blow off screen in Crisis Core after Zack delivers his final "would you say I became a hero" line. Now, 15 years later, we see it blow by Zack and Cloud after his survival. It's like a continuation. To me, the white feather just symbolizes how Zack's journey is continuing.

In the context of Crisis Core, white feathers most certainly represent Angeal and Zack ascending to the sky.

Spoiler

The blue sky symbolises Zack, the white feather Angeal, and the water Aerith.

As with its use in the logo of ‘CC’, the blue sky symbolises Zack, the ideal SOLDIER 1st class envisioned in “FFVII”. This is the image of Zack at his best and complete. If you pull back a bit, you could say it symbolises ideals, goals, dreams.

The white feather, as well as being a symbol for Angeal, is also a symbol for ‘wings’. The “wings” which cross the ‘blue sky’ is Angeal, and it also includes the hint that in order to reach those heights, dreams, he needs to overcome many difficulties.

I don't think the meaning behind those elements from CC are lost here in the Remake. Especially since that feather was such a memorable and key part of the final scene of CC's ending.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Why is outside the church not blindingly white when we see him outside it then

And there's still a difference between Zack walking into the light with Aerith (ACC) and from the light (Intermission). It's not like the inside of the church is all white either. Not to mention I can't really envision the Lifestream being so... well, like a Sims simulation of real life.

 

[Eerie]

I think Max noticed that every time Aerith talked, there was this white feather, so it might be her. However, it's not exactly true; it appears at first in the trailer, then again but the scene *is the same* and we see it when Cloud talks, too. So I don't think it represents Aerith. It may be a reference to Genesis, or maybe because Cloud's about to die in this universe.

I'll notice that her speech "let's not talk about the past (images of Zack and Cloud walking near Midgar) but the future (images of Meteor)" certainly breaks it to people that Meteor is still the future of the Planet right now (I think it was Max again saying that it was now in the past, but I disagree vehemently lol).

What also bugs me is that the whole part of Zack and Cloud at the end happens *after* the "what facts are only fiction?" - while it certainly alludes to Cloud's personality trouble, does it ALSO alludes to the whole part of Zack being alive? IS HE A DREAM? Cue in Cloud wondering where Zack is??? I am almost certain now that this line is from a dream he has. Maybe we spend the night in Gongaga and he dreams about Zack, IDK? Or maybe that replaces the dialogues he has with himself in Junon about Tifa? I think it's probably something *added* rather than replacing, because they are going to confuse the hell out of us. Things are going to amp up even before we reach the Temple of the Ancients - Tifa wondering if he's really him, Aerith searching for him, Zack dream, they'll want to confuse people even more than in the OG. Shit's going to get real.

The breaking down of the narrative is super interesting in the trailer BTW:
- Tifa asks him if he believes she's not the same from before, images of the Kalm flashback, but line most probably from the Northern Crater
- Aerith praying, Holy in the water
- "What facts are only fiction?"
- back to the images of Zack and Cloud near Midgar that were from the beginning of the trailer (THE PAST)
- Cloud: "I don't understand. 5 years ago, did we come here together? Zack... where is he now?" > talks to Zack
- Aerith: "It's you... I want to see" > talks to Cloud (GS date, alluding to his personality trouble)
- Zack: "Sorry. I don't know how to help you." > probably talks to Cloud (most probably heartbroken because Cloud is mako poisoned and he can't do a thing about it; maybe even because Cloud is dying)

BOTH Aerith and Zack allude to Cloud's mental problem, however they both do it after the "what facts are only fiction?" part. Tifa does it too, but her way of wording it is by asking if she's the problem (she isn't, her part is before that black screen; it's also funny because we know the Nibelheim incident didn't happen as Cloud says in the Kalm flashback, so it's sort of fake too). I really think it's a very clever trailer. It makes you believe at first that everything has changed but once you stop and look at it, we are exactly where we should be with the OG.

Re Zack being dead or alive: Aerith tells me that he is dead at the end of Remake, but that something is odd with him in Intermission. What she did at the end of the game certainly transformed his fate into something else, but she is not aware of this.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I mean, the white feather is connected to Crisis Core and it's memorable ending. It's a glaring callback to it, given it's floating above and near Zack. Who's walked past the spot the feather would have blown away from had he died.

It's not Aerith. If it represents anyone, it's Angeal and/or Zack who wanted those wings... And the moment Zack died and ascended into the sky. That's the most overt symbolism white wings and feathers have in connection to him.

 

[Fiz]

I think Max noticed that every time Aerith talked, there was this white feather, so it might be her. However, it's not exactly true; it appears at first in the trailer, then again but the scene *is the same* and we see it when Cloud talks, too. So I don't think it represents Aerith. It may be a reference to Genesis, or maybe because Cloud's about to die in this universe.

I'll notice that her speech "let's not talk about the past (images of Zack and Cloud walking near Midgar) but the future (images of Meteor)" certainly breaks it to people that Meteor is still the future of the Planet right now (I think it was Max again saying that it was now in the past, but I disagree vehemently lol).

What also bugs me is that the whole part of Zack and Cloud at the end happens *after* the "what facts are only fiction?" - while it certainly alludes to Cloud's personality trouble, does it ALSO alludes to the whole part of Zack being alive? IS HE A DREAM? Cue in Cloud wondering where Zack is??? I am almost certain now that this line is from a dream he has. Maybe we spend the night in Gongaga and he dreams about Zack, IDK? Or maybe that replaces the dialogues he has with himself in Junon about Tifa? I think it's probably something *added* rather than replacing, because they are going to confuse the hell out of us. Things are going to amp up even before we reach the Temple of the Ancients - Tifa wondering if he's really him, Aerith searching for him, Zack dream, they'll want to confuse people even more than in the OG. Shit's going to get real.

The breaking down of the narrative is super interesting in the trailer BTW:
- Tifa asks him if he believes she's not the same from before, images of the Kalm flashback, but line most probably from the Northern Crater
- Aerith praying, Holy in the water
- "What facts are only fiction?"
- back to the images of Zack and Cloud near Midgar that were from the beginning of the trailer (THE PAST)
- Cloud: "I don't understand. 5 years ago, did we come here together? Zack... where is he now?" > talks to Zack
- Aerith: "It's you... I want to see" > talks to Cloud (GS date, alluding to his personality trouble)
- Zack: "Sorry. I don't know how to help you." > probably talks to Cloud (most probably heartbroken because Cloud is mako poisoned and he can't do a thing about it; maybe even because Cloud is dying)

BOTH Aerith and Zack allude to Cloud's mental problem, however they both do it after the "what facts are only fiction?" part. Tifa does it too, but her way of wording it is by asking if she's the problem (she isn't, her part is before that black screen; it's also funny because we know the Nibelheim incident didn't happen as Cloud says in the Kalm flashback, so it's sort of fake too). I really think it's a very clever trailer. It makes you believe at first that everything has changed but once you stop and look at it, we are exactly where we should be with the OG.

Re Zack being dead or alive: Aerith tells me that he is dead at the end of Remake, but that something is odd with him in Intermission. What she did at the end of the game certainly transformed his fate into something else, but she is not aware of this.

I think the feather might be alluding to both of them, or Angeal. Like, double meanings. I think Max was on to something.

 

[Eerie]

I definitely think it's either Angeal, Zack or Cloud in this specific case. The feather is already there when Cloud talks, so it's not an Aerith-only thing. To me it does allude to CC's ending scene, but since it's changed, it's really hard to know what it is supposed to represent. I think we probably need either more trailers or the game in itself to form an opinion on that, it's way too vague tbh.

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

Angel's wings.
Represents his place of death, and passing on to Heaven.
Also represents Angeal watching from above to welcome him there.
He's now walking away from the gates of Heaven so to speak.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Minerva-

I read a "leak" that said

Spoiler

Aerith was going to survive but she was actually a vessel for Minerva and vessel!Minerva Aerith would fuse with Genesis to become Warrior of Light, Cloud would attack them but die and Zack would become the lead for the third game and that's how Rebirth ended. Don't know if anyone else saw that "leak", I saw it copied on twitter but yeah that was really out there

 

[Eerie]

I certainly wouldn't consider that leak as anything close to a leak - it sounds more like wishful thinking? FFVII is Cloud's game, Zack isn't there to usurp his place.

The trailer already sort of debunk all of this. If by any chance Minerva acts in any way and interacts with Aerith, I'd expect it to be either in the Temple of the Ancients or once she's dead, tbh.

 

[LNK]

Considering that Rebirth is coming out next year and Remake came out two years ago, if Square Enix manage to keep up the three year gap, I'd say the final part would be out in 2026 if we're lucky.

Yeah, I think we may get the final game at the end of ps5 cycle. Then a collectors edition on ps6. My hope would be that's released in a case just like the original black label game

 

[LNK]

I've become aware that the idea that Zack is, in fact, still dead, is a very popular theory even now. I've officially decided I must be the crazy one.

Shit, I used to be the crazy one still thinking he was dead lol. It's funny how things switch sometimes. I still have doubts though

idk if zack its alive or death, but it is a coincidence that at the end of the dlc when zack enters into the church the background is the same as in advent children when he and aerith appear in the church.

This was part of the evidence I used to say he was still dead

Why is outside the church not blindingly white when we see him outside it then

I can't really explain why I've thought this. It's more that, we don't see this with other characters (besides Aerith in AC). I don't think we'll see the blindingly white light all the time with him, but I do think we'll see it some more

And there's still a difference between Zack walking into the light with Aerith (ACC) and from the light (Intermission). It's not like the inside of the church is all white either. Not to mention I can't really envision the Lifestream being so... well, like a Sims simulation of real life.

I'd just explain that away, like the difference between the buster swords in the different compilation titles. At the end of the day, it's still the same one. It's also like how we've seen cloud killing sephiroth in the different titles. In some, he stabs him and throws him in the lifestream. In one, sephiroth jumps in himself. To me, the white light differences between ACC and now, is the same idea at the end of the day

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

FFVII is Cloud's game

Expanding on this...
It seems possible the FF7R project titles are alluding to his mental condition? (though also in a way applicable to his master's physical condition? ?)

Spoiler

Unless part 3 is called Regenesis and the Meteor logo turns into a red Genesis troll-face.

 

[Eerie]

I wonder... if it alludes to Sephiroth. Sephiroth literally re-birthes at the Northern Crater. Part 1 is Remake because it's him trying to manipulate the events in his favour; part 2 is where he gets to come back again? No clue what part 3's title should be named tho.