FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH ANNOUNCED
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Golden Ear
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- M. Prod
LOL You guys think THAT is concerning?!
Have you not seen this?
I don't where everyone stands on how they're changing the story but if you're expecting this to continue like the FF7 we know......
Have you not seen this?
I don't where everyone stands on how they're changing the story but if you're expecting this to continue like the FF7 we know......
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Oh it's gonna suck, but I remain in denial hopeful to at least get some cool parts played straight, but knowing that even when they do there still might be fuckin whispers still is a drag. Thinking that we killed them was like the one good part of the ending 
Golden Ear
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- M. Prod
Barret convincing Dyne to not jump off the cliff and explain that there is more to life, don't do it man.....
Then some fucking whispers come in and just force him to his death anyway!
Then some fucking whispers come in and just force him to his death anyway!
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
Cloud's gonna do it. Pllleeeeaaaassseeeee
Maidenofwar
They/Them
Cloud's not going to do it, Cloud's going to die, and Zack becomes lead for the next game 
Aerith stuff doesn't really bother me, because it just seems like a massive red herring to me, hyping it up, please look forward to it, etc. Why would they spoil that. That's why I'm not trusting anything related to fate at the Forgotten capital until the game comes out. The "big surprise" ... and then the big surprise is haha gotcha and everything's the same.
Even though Aerith's my favourite ... nah not trusting it. Then again they did spoil what happened before on the game discs/commercials, etc, all those years ago so who knows with them.
This time around Aerith fans get to play as her in two full size games. Not to mention Ever Crisis and tie ins. It means a lot. Even if her fate remains the same she still plays a big part in story as well.
Aerith stuff doesn't really bother me, because it just seems like a massive red herring to me, hyping it up, please look forward to it, etc. Why would they spoil that. That's why I'm not trusting anything related to fate at the Forgotten capital until the game comes out. The "big surprise" ... and then the big surprise is haha gotcha and everything's the same.
Even though Aerith's my favourite ... nah not trusting it. Then again they did spoil what happened before on the game discs/commercials, etc, all those years ago so who knows with them.
This time around Aerith fans get to play as her in two full size games. Not to mention Ever Crisis and tie ins. It means a lot. Even if her fate remains the same she still plays a big part in story as well.
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For me it's simple, If Aerith survives FFVII I stop being a fan of Final Fantasy, I've been meh about almost everything they've done since 10, and the move towards mobile and gacha BS has made it more and more unpalatable for me, but if they don't just destroy future projects but even start going back and destroying old ones then I am done.
I JUST wanted to see the scenes I've seen in my head my entire life in reality. I don't want an F-ing twist. I want to see that legendary scene where Sephiroth drops down and skewers Aerith, in 4k, is that REALLY so much to ask? Honestly, even if she does die but they just do it differently, that might still be enough to end my 25 years as a fan, the whispers in part 1 already have them hanging by on a thread.
I JUST wanted to see the scenes I've seen in my head my entire life in reality. I don't want an F-ing twist. I want to see that legendary scene where Sephiroth drops down and skewers Aerith, in 4k, is that REALLY so much to ask? Honestly, even if she does die but they just do it differently, that might still be enough to end my 25 years as a fan, the whispers in part 1 already have them hanging by on a thread.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
Funny thing about grief is that you feel all the stages in random orders, and different stages come back. The Rebirth demo had me back in denial, and now I’m depressed and angry again lol.
I don’t know why they wanted us to feel meta-grief over the potential for a remake, but I guess it’s on theme?
Here’s hoping they do a “memories of nostalgia” thing when the trilogy is all said and done and show us the OG scenes that they skipped/changed/whispered up.
I don’t know why they wanted us to feel meta-grief over the potential for a remake, but I guess it’s on theme?
Here’s hoping they do a “memories of nostalgia” thing when the trilogy is all said and done and show us the OG scenes that they skipped/changed/whispered up.
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
Regarding Aerith, as long as they handle it in a way that makes sense for the story, I don't actually care either way. Would I prefer her to die? Of course. Hell, I'm hoping Cloud is the one who does it this time haha. As for the mobile/gacha stuff, it's not for me. That's fine though, I'll just keep going back to the older games I do like. I'll still always be a fan of Final Fantasy.
I understand why you feel this way. I wanted the Remake to be handled just like Resident Evil 2 remake on ps4. I see why SE didn't want to do that though. That wouldn't have been as challenging to them as creatives. I'm just along for the ride and I'm definitely enjoying it.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Insofar as the details of the situation regarding the fates of Zack & Aerith is concerned, I think it's likely worth chiming in about a bit of context that's probably worth considering when it comes to the storytelling style of these two different versions of events and what they're influenced by. (This is a piece of the bigger thing I'm still working on in the background when I can, so hopefully this little condensation of some details doesn't give away too much).
One of the big things about FFVII is how its core themes are centered specifically around the storytelling of what it's like to experience the loss of a loved one, with the Lifestream and those core underlying themes coming from Hironobu Sakaguchi reflecting on the death of his mother in a house fire during the development of FF3 in 1988 and how he processed that type of grief and trauma by trying to look at life from an objectively logical & mathematical perspective. As such, it's worth looking at how things like those are presented as a facet of fictional storytelling with other influences that predated FFVII.
One of the more obscure ones is the manga Pygmalio which ran from 1978-1990 and was a significant influence on BERSERK (main character Kurt wielding a gigantic sword, the name of King Griffith, and a host of other things). What's most notable about this manga is that while approaching the conclusion of the story, his wife suddenly and unexpectedly passed away (detailed on the manga Intermission in Chapter 161 on Page 394-396), leaving him in a total state of shock until he was finally able to continue for some time, leading up to the finale of the arc, "Mother of Light, Mother of Darkness" as the key conflict is about the nature of Pygmalio's mother. (Yes there is a LOT more about how this story intersects with a vast number of other elements in FFVII with the mother relationship, but not gonna dive into all of that here as that also crosses over to several other manga and influences that shape that).
When working on the renewal version, he included an epilogue called "Another Pygmalio" (Chapter 164 Page 491-end) which is an alternative version of events where everyone gets to live happily which was included as a "gift" to both himself and to the readers of the original story who were left wishing to see a glimpse of a world where so many of the terrible things didn't come to pass and where he explains the overview of many of the concepts at the end of the manga that have a clear parallel to the themes of life that Sakaguchi emphasized as a core part of the ORIGINAL Final Fantasy VII – long, LONG before the concept of the Remake Project was ever conceived.
Following this, there have been lots of explorations of the concept of having the power to reshape the world into a different state, with Princess Mononoke, Evangelion, and Final Fantasy VII being all at the center of those ideas back in 1997 from the perspective of where Japan was at the time. In September 2007, Rebuild of Evangelion was the first to take a sequel+reboot approach and do essentially the same thing while building into a large departure from the original into a flow of an alternative series of events that leads to a happy ending for the characters that's not just something for the audience but also for the author as well. BERSERK has explored this in the Fantasia Arc starting in 2009 which literally rewrote the entire world setting into that of another reality that set a vastly different conflict in motion, and which Remake has specifically paralleled in its visual iconography for the moment of Zack's survival at the end of the first game.
In all these cases, they don't retcon the original narrative as that continues to exist on its own terms and specifically as a moment in time that captures the experiences and feelings that existed at that time for them. In the case of the FFVII Remake Project they've stated that they're going to follow the original narrative while also including some unexpected surprises.
What's most important to look at is that this is STILL a narrative that's focused around how we process the ideas of loss, but that now this also includes what that's like to endure given the passage of time.
It's a story that's made both for newcomers to the series, but also for returning fans of the original, which is why during my research I've found myself most frequently returning to the epilogue of Pygmalio when considering what the "Terrier" events really are. They're exactly what, as fans, we've always wanted to see in some way. There's an undeniable yearning for a point where Zack doesn't get killed and is able to make it to Midgar, and which is able to present a totally different series of events in another reality to this one. Even if it isn't what's coming to pass in the main story, the ability to experience that reality as an audience carries a meaning just in the way that having "Another Pygmalio" did (and does if you're new to that story as I expect most anyone reading this post would be).
Even moreso to that point, the latest holiday event for Halloween in Ever Crisis featured the Portal materia again where you can't recall anything about what you experienced on the other side and when you come through it's totally gone from your mind, however despite not recalling anything there's a quote from Matt which carries some weight to this perspective, "Even if you don't remember, it's etched in your heart and your body." While that conversation then continues in an exploration of whether or not free will exists (which is interesting but more a subject for the EC thread), the most poignant detail is that it establishes that there is another reality and even if the characters in Remake were able to reach that, they wouldn't remember anything about it – but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have meaning to do it or to try regardless.
This echoes the same sentiment that Aerith openly expressed during the Sector 07 plate collapse in Remake which is that even if it is impossible to change anything, the most important thing is that you try to and make sure that no matter how it DOES happen, that you're able to move forward without any regrets about your choices and doing everything you can even if it's impossible to reverse things.
This is something that just grows as the presence of a loss lingers over time. As much as that pain exists there's always a part of you that can't help but imagine what things might be like now if those things had never come to pass – and that is inherently such a deeply impactful and existential experience that that one change can't help but alter absolutely everything else around it. Portraying how that yearning inherently contradicts the ability to simultaneously have the other things you want to keep that only came about as a result of things that followed the loss is DEEPLY important as an exploration of what the core concepts of life & loss are – which is the central structural framework of Final Fantasy VII.
At any rate, hopefully this little ramble is helpful in providing a bit of a different perspective on things by stepping out to a slightly different layer of the storytelling than often gets focused on (and speaking from the experience working alongside designers, is one that they spend a LOT of time considering before even beginning to approach the in-context elements).
X
One of the big things about FFVII is how its core themes are centered specifically around the storytelling of what it's like to experience the loss of a loved one, with the Lifestream and those core underlying themes coming from Hironobu Sakaguchi reflecting on the death of his mother in a house fire during the development of FF3 in 1988 and how he processed that type of grief and trauma by trying to look at life from an objectively logical & mathematical perspective. As such, it's worth looking at how things like those are presented as a facet of fictional storytelling with other influences that predated FFVII.
One of the more obscure ones is the manga Pygmalio which ran from 1978-1990 and was a significant influence on BERSERK (main character Kurt wielding a gigantic sword, the name of King Griffith, and a host of other things). What's most notable about this manga is that while approaching the conclusion of the story, his wife suddenly and unexpectedly passed away (detailed on the manga Intermission in Chapter 161 on Page 394-396), leaving him in a total state of shock until he was finally able to continue for some time, leading up to the finale of the arc, "Mother of Light, Mother of Darkness" as the key conflict is about the nature of Pygmalio's mother. (Yes there is a LOT more about how this story intersects with a vast number of other elements in FFVII with the mother relationship, but not gonna dive into all of that here as that also crosses over to several other manga and influences that shape that).
When working on the renewal version, he included an epilogue called "Another Pygmalio" (Chapter 164 Page 491-end) which is an alternative version of events where everyone gets to live happily which was included as a "gift" to both himself and to the readers of the original story who were left wishing to see a glimpse of a world where so many of the terrible things didn't come to pass and where he explains the overview of many of the concepts at the end of the manga that have a clear parallel to the themes of life that Sakaguchi emphasized as a core part of the ORIGINAL Final Fantasy VII – long, LONG before the concept of the Remake Project was ever conceived.
Following this, there have been lots of explorations of the concept of having the power to reshape the world into a different state, with Princess Mononoke, Evangelion, and Final Fantasy VII being all at the center of those ideas back in 1997 from the perspective of where Japan was at the time. In September 2007, Rebuild of Evangelion was the first to take a sequel+reboot approach and do essentially the same thing while building into a large departure from the original into a flow of an alternative series of events that leads to a happy ending for the characters that's not just something for the audience but also for the author as well. BERSERK has explored this in the Fantasia Arc starting in 2009 which literally rewrote the entire world setting into that of another reality that set a vastly different conflict in motion, and which Remake has specifically paralleled in its visual iconography for the moment of Zack's survival at the end of the first game.
In all these cases, they don't retcon the original narrative as that continues to exist on its own terms and specifically as a moment in time that captures the experiences and feelings that existed at that time for them. In the case of the FFVII Remake Project they've stated that they're going to follow the original narrative while also including some unexpected surprises.
What's most important to look at is that this is STILL a narrative that's focused around how we process the ideas of loss, but that now this also includes what that's like to endure given the passage of time.
It's a story that's made both for newcomers to the series, but also for returning fans of the original, which is why during my research I've found myself most frequently returning to the epilogue of Pygmalio when considering what the "Terrier" events really are. They're exactly what, as fans, we've always wanted to see in some way. There's an undeniable yearning for a point where Zack doesn't get killed and is able to make it to Midgar, and which is able to present a totally different series of events in another reality to this one. Even if it isn't what's coming to pass in the main story, the ability to experience that reality as an audience carries a meaning just in the way that having "Another Pygmalio" did (and does if you're new to that story as I expect most anyone reading this post would be).
Even moreso to that point, the latest holiday event for Halloween in Ever Crisis featured the Portal materia again where you can't recall anything about what you experienced on the other side and when you come through it's totally gone from your mind, however despite not recalling anything there's a quote from Matt which carries some weight to this perspective, "Even if you don't remember, it's etched in your heart and your body." While that conversation then continues in an exploration of whether or not free will exists (which is interesting but more a subject for the EC thread), the most poignant detail is that it establishes that there is another reality and even if the characters in Remake were able to reach that, they wouldn't remember anything about it – but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have meaning to do it or to try regardless.
This echoes the same sentiment that Aerith openly expressed during the Sector 07 plate collapse in Remake which is that even if it is impossible to change anything, the most important thing is that you try to and make sure that no matter how it DOES happen, that you're able to move forward without any regrets about your choices and doing everything you can even if it's impossible to reverse things.
This is something that just grows as the presence of a loss lingers over time. As much as that pain exists there's always a part of you that can't help but imagine what things might be like now if those things had never come to pass – and that is inherently such a deeply impactful and existential experience that that one change can't help but alter absolutely everything else around it. Portraying how that yearning inherently contradicts the ability to simultaneously have the other things you want to keep that only came about as a result of things that followed the loss is DEEPLY important as an exploration of what the core concepts of life & loss are – which is the central structural framework of Final Fantasy VII.
At any rate, hopefully this little ramble is helpful in providing a bit of a different perspective on things by stepping out to a slightly different layer of the storytelling than often gets focused on (and speaking from the experience working alongside designers, is one that they spend a LOT of time considering before even beginning to approach the in-context elements).
As those threads for "the remake" were intended to encompass the FFVII Remake Project as a whole, I just amended the names of those two threads to be "Remake & Rebirth" so feel free to use those ones accordingly as they're already pinned.
X
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
"We’ve seen that Yuffie and Vincent will be joining the party. Are we going to see their backstories integrated into Rebirth in any way?
Nomura: Firstly, for Yuffie, the order of locations that the characters explore will differ slightly in terms of her storyline with the original. So as we mentioned for Rebirth, it will be the story going up till the Forgotten Capital.
With the original game, following the storyline, the party would be visiting Yuffie’s hometown Wutai, in the midst of that. But for Rebirth, this has been shifted to the next title so going further in-depth into the backstory will happen in the next game. Vincent won't be a controllable character in Rebirth, and will be more of a guest character, similar to Red XIII in Remake."
So more than likely no or little backstory for Yuffie or Vincent in Rebirth. I'm curious to see how that'll look in Rebirth. Or even when Vincent will be brought in as a guest. With them moving things around, it could be for endgame similar to Red
Nomura: Firstly, for Yuffie, the order of locations that the characters explore will differ slightly in terms of her storyline with the original. So as we mentioned for Rebirth, it will be the story going up till the Forgotten Capital.
With the original game, following the storyline, the party would be visiting Yuffie’s hometown Wutai, in the midst of that. But for Rebirth, this has been shifted to the next title so going further in-depth into the backstory will happen in the next game. Vincent won't be a controllable character in Rebirth, and will be more of a guest character, similar to Red XIII in Remake."
So more than likely no or little backstory for Yuffie or Vincent in Rebirth. I'm curious to see how that'll look in Rebirth. Or even when Vincent will be brought in as a guest. With them moving things around, it could be for endgame similar to Red
cold_spirit
he/him
- AKA
- Alex T
My biggest question with guest characters this time around is will they travel with the party? Perhaps Cid will stick around to pilot and guard the Tiny Bronco while everyone else adventures, explaining why he doesn't engage in combat. If so, what can they write for Vincent? Or will they write it so that Vincent and Cid have some sort of story reason to leave the party after Nibelheim / Rocket Town?
Red XIII joined they fray in Remake's final dungeon. He pretty much had no choice but to travel with the party until the credits rolled. But with Rebirth, the world and story is much more open. Honestly, I kind of hope Vincent and Cid bugger off with something. As a Vincent fan, it would be physically painful to see Vincent on the sidelines the whole endgame, but not be able to actually play as him.
I would, however, forgive SE for this creative decision if they ever remaster Dirge of Cerberus in my lifetime.
Red XIII joined they fray in Remake's final dungeon. He pretty much had no choice but to travel with the party until the credits rolled. But with Rebirth, the world and story is much more open. Honestly, I kind of hope Vincent and Cid bugger off with something. As a Vincent fan, it would be physically painful to see Vincent on the sidelines the whole endgame, but not be able to actually play as him.
I would, however, forgive SE for this creative decision if they ever remaster Dirge of Cerberus in my lifetime.
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
Yeah, it'd be weird to have them tag along as guests for a long period of time. That's why I wondered if it wouldn't be till towards the end when we did get them. If they arrive early, having them go off somewhere would be better imo as well. But then why consider them as guests if that's the case? They'd definitely have to be with us for some amount of time
As for a Dirge remaster, I'd love one. I actually love that game. It's not one of my favorites, but I'll gladly play it again if it's remastered
As for a Dirge remaster, I'd love one. I actually love that game. It's not one of my favorites, but I'll gladly play it again if it's remastered
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cold_spirit
he/him
- AKA
- Alex T
I can see Vincent traveling with the party through Mt Nibel. Then, perhaps after seeing the makonoids at the reactor, he decides to break from the group and do some personal resonance on Hojo. That is his goal in the original afterall.
As for Cid, hmmm, it's a bit tricky. Even in the original he didn't really have a good reason to join the party. I can see them expanding the Rocket Town scenario to include more combat, allowing the party to fight alongside Cid, but what about afterwards? Maybe he decides to stay back and guard the place from Shinra, who is after their technology/engineers?
As for Cid, hmmm, it's a bit tricky. Even in the original he didn't really have a good reason to join the party. I can see them expanding the Rocket Town scenario to include more combat, allowing the party to fight alongside Cid, but what about afterwards? Maybe he decides to stay back and guard the place from Shinra, who is after their technology/engineers?
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Even in the original game Vincent's scene where they all reunite on the Highwind had a gag about how he's always standing around sort of broodingly in the background disconnected from everything to the point that Cloud didn't know he actually cared, which is punctuated by Vincent not being self aware about the impression he gives off. This is a gag that's largely continued in Advent Children with him not having a cell phone, and not really understanding that that's an expectation for other people to be able to reach him, which is why Dirge of Cerberus relies on that as a key communication point. Essentially, Vincent in Rebirth having a role of being an indirect combatant and not full PC like Red XIII was in Remake is really only laying what's essentially PERFECT groundwork for all of this, and there're countless ways that they're likely to portray that. I don't expect that he'll actually leave so much as just be passively lurking the way he's used to monitoring everything from a distance being a former Turk, where always being one layer of attachment removed is his normal (and also his trauma from Lucrecia that we won't address until later, which will help to change that).
Insofar as Cid is concerned, I think that him being the Tiny Bronco Pilot and potentially even the Highwind Pilot who has an obligatory sense of tagging along with the team works perfectly. He'll likely bring back a feeling a bit like Remake having the auxiliary Avalanche Crew of Biggs, Wedge, & Jessie who tag along with you because of shared mutual interest. For Cid, I think that this gives a REALLY big focus for how he has to sort of take center stage in the next game when Cloud gets lost in the Lifestream, and why the Highwind becomes a rallying point for everyone to return to where the aforementioned Vincent scene takes place. Insofar as purpose, Cid demonstrably has a volatile relationship with the person he loves for destroying his dream of flying into space, so he's not gonna have an easy time forming a bond to the party when they literally do the same thing to his personal aircraft and ground it to a shallow water-skimming vessel. Like Vincent, he's not really initially in a place where something will start to disrupt his natural aggressively-defensive behaviour any more than it will for Vincent's passively removed behaviour.
Both of those things change with story that comes after everyone goes through a lot more traumatic things as a group, and so they all feel the same about things even if they're not as close as the others, they'll start to feel more connected to what's happening and be pushing into taking up an active role rather than only feeling comfortable being one layer of relationship removed from the group, and very clearly Yuffie is a catalyst for that in how they established her character as being isolated and still heavily dependent upon having someone who's more of an adult to assist her – and Cid & Vincent are very much those characters but in polar opposite ways that her nature will really highlight and break down. She's clingy in a way that will attach herself to Vincent like glue, and she's a mouthy teenage goofball which will take the edge off of Cid's own aggression. Especially as the return to Wutai is about having to learn how to see her dad as a person, but also someone with a role & duty to others that is opposed to his personal wishes, those are story elements that make sense when you're given the space to build up those relationships explicity, and can rely on the others as more of an established core to reflect those into.
I think that having the additional team-building of those three primarily shifted into the next game is gonna be how you set up for the "Return To Midgar airdrop" where Cid leaves the pilot-in-training with the Highwind while Vincent is going after the Jenova-infused Hojo where the collective agendas of everyone all come together. I also expect that we'll be building up camaraderie with Yuffie & Vincent to address her own return to Midgar as where Sonon is trapped likely being where some of the team will go, especially as the Proud Clod's development was shown throughout INTERmission and that's a combat encounter of that story in the original game and it makes sense for them to follow through on what lies below as well.
Add to that that ACC's final battle at North Crater is shown as Barret, Red XII, Tifa, & Cait Sith and then Cid, Vincent, & Yuffie there's a thematic grouping of those three that's slightly different from the others. I'd expect that we'd also be seeing the Midgar Evacuation scene before the opening credits of Dirge of Cerberus where Vincent & Yuffie are helping to organize flights away from the outskirts of the Slums (where Yuffie came into the city in INTERmission), which would explicitly make sense if they had the assistance of Cid to manage the different flight crews, and give a bigger reason to focus on building up that group as a team who might be able to take on a split mission to what the ex-Avalanche Crew who are all retuning to Midgar are doing with the assistance of Reeve/Cait Sith playing an intermediary role in helping them both in different capacities during that Midgar mission in a way where you can have the established characters getting back to all of those "What the hell happened at the end of Remake" threads like the Leaf House, Wall Market, and other places where those 3 won't have natural story cohesion to party up and go address that.
X
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
ESRB rating hints story details for Rebirth. Rated T.
www.esrb.org
FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH - ESRB
FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH - Teen - This is an action role-playing game in which players follow the story of a mercenary (Cloud Strife) on a quest to save the planet from evil.
www.esrb.org
cold_spirit
he/him
- AKA
- Alex T
From the rating description:
suggestive dialogue sometimes accompanies camera panning/close-ups of characters' bodies/outfits (e.g., “Just admit it. You're obviously captivated by my bodacious beach bod.”).
I hope Hojo says this.
suggestive dialogue sometimes accompanies camera panning/close-ups of characters' bodies/outfits (e.g., “Just admit it. You're obviously captivated by my bodacious beach bod.”).
I hope Hojo says this.
Golden Ear
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- M. Prod
ESRB rating hints story details for Rebirth. Rated T.
FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH - ESRB
FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH - Teen - This is an action role-playing game in which players follow the story of a mercenary (Cloud Strife) on a quest to save the planet from evil.
I feel like if there was any kind of depiction of suicide in the game (a la Dyne) then that would've come up in the ratings description. Makes me wonder how they'll handle that scene.
billy22
Pro Adventurer
The whispers show up and push him off a cliff.
Golden Ear
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- M. Prod
