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FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH ANNOUNCED

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
I invest in Final Fantasy VII for more than "the events". I invest in the series for its spirit. It's this intangible thing, but I know it when I feel it. "Ah, that's Final Fantasy VII". If I had to put it into words, I'd say "defiant" mixed with "anything goes". So for me, the events of the story can change dramatically and I'd still be invested. It would still be Final Fantasy VII.

I appreciate your response. My question is did you think this way before or after playing Remake?


Couple that with my indifference towards remakes, and yeah, it should at least be a little understandable why I personally, and perhaps others, was excited for the Remake Project to be "more than a remake".

What is a remake to you though?

For me, it's more than a remake in that it's not the kind that people expected. People expected a damn near 1:1 (myself included).
 

cold_spirit

he/him
AKA
Alex T
My question is did you think this way before or after playing Remake?

What is a remake to you though?

I've always felt the way I do. As for what is a remake to me? Oh boy, I've seen folks argue in circles attempting to define that. Is this project a recontextualization, is it a sequel, is it a requel, etc. The conversation usually goes like this:

"According to this [interview/definition], FF7R is a [blank]. So there's really no reason for anyone to believe it's an [opposite of blank]."

"Are you kidding me? [Event x] in Remake is the [same/different] from [event y] in the OG. That is a fundamental [change/similarity] at the heart of the story. It's obviously a [blank]."

And so on. I don't usually engage with semantics like that. Whatever you want to call it, one thing is for certain: Chapter 18 generated a big reaction from players. Some read it one way, others read it another. Now all eyes are on Rebirth to settle the score. And we're so close. I kinda want to keep my head down and just let it be until then.
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
I've always felt the way I do.

Based on what we've gotten, it seems as if you'd be happy about the direction they chose to go. At least since it's not a 1:1 remake.

As for what is a remake to me? Oh boy, I've seen folks argue in circles attempting to define that. Is this project a recontextualization, is it a sequel, is it a requel, etc. I don't usually engage with semantics like that.

Wouldn't you say it's an important thing to establish though? Especially in regards to FF7. This is a game that fans have been calling to be remade for over close to 2 decades (over 1 by the time of 2015). Whether or not it's the exact kind of remake fans wanted doesn't necessarily matter, as long as it's still a remake in the end. If it was intended to be a sequel, than it should've been marketed as such, but it never has been. It would be a very shitty thing for SE to do with this project if that was the case.

one thing is for certain: Chapter 18 generated a big reaction from players. Some read it one way, others read it another. Now all eyes are on Rebirth to settle the score. And we're so close. I kinda want to keep my head down and just let it be until then.

For sure! While I'm not a big fan of the Whispers and ch 18, I can't wait to see what other changes it brings on this "unknown journey."
Knowing that Fort Condor has been physically moved, and Wutai is now being visited later, I'm curious to see if they'll do something differently with the Forgotten Capital and Norther Crater. Maybe combining the events somehow that way Rebirth will still end with the execution scene. IDK. Now matter what, I can't wait
 

null

Mr. Thou
AKA
null
I want it ALL. A remake that tells the same story in new and exciting ways. A rebuild that morphs the original story into something else. A sequel that lets dead characters stay dead. A remaster that's *exactly* the same except I can tell whether the crap laying around Sector 6 is a bridge or part of the background. A reboot that pisses off people on X formerly known as Twitter who never played the original.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X

A critically important detail here is that you have to look at the INTENTION behind the two statements being made there, which involves continuing beyond the the second highlighted section to include the rest of the sentence, "If we don't ... make it that bigger and wider experience, then people just think they know what's coming. I want to avoid that."

Hamaguchi is specifically talking about the importance of not treating the future like it's already a foregone conclusion. That's the critical reason for placing so much emphasis on all of the characters' relationships to one another that they talked about earlier. Additionally, ALL of those changes are taking place within the PREVIOUS quoted context of not being a deviation that prevents arriving at Advent Children which nobody wanted to do. These are both things that Remake also already HEAVILY EMPHASIZES.

The mystery is "The Unknown Journey" and it's important to remember that the JOURNEY ITSELF is oftentimes more important than the Destination – which in this case is the Forgotten Capital. Aerith very blatantly spoke about this to Wedge when the Sector 7 Plate was inevitably going to collapse, even if you're certain that something awful is going to happen and you can't win, that's no reason not to act as if you know you're going to lose and you can't change things, because you don't ACTUALLY KNOW until you try. No matter what you're facing, the most important thing is that you conduct yourself such that you have no regrets about anything you did or the efforts that you made.

THAT is what's criticial to have as a mindset with the audience of players, and it's why you have to take all of these mixed and seemingly contradictory approaches because there needs to be enough room in the ambiguity of not being explicitly told what's going to happen – which they never do in interviews. What they DO say is that things are changing, it's important to make players not have certainty about what's going to happen, and that the events will still follow the framework of the original game.

So – what happens as a result of Aerith doing exactly that in the face of Destiny's Crossroads at the end of Remake?

There is some location where Zack survives an event that we KNOW killed him.

What Zack's apparent survival entails IS the mystery itself, because it's inextricably linked into the experience of loss and how you cope with those things. What types of events you're able to reverse and the ripple effect that that continues to have upon everything else if you do matters a LOT to how you understand attempting to take that type of action. It seems like the story is already going to be an exploration of what exactly that means when it comes to Cloud as our main protagonist – because without Zack dying, he's never gonna get his big sword or the responsibility to be a living legacy to his lost friend that are the foundation of his adopted Ex-SOLDIER persona, he'll likely never meet Aerith selling flowers after bombing a Mako Reactor, and countless other things will be altered – especially since the official story recap mentions that Cloud bumping into Aerith (while looking like, matching the mannerisms of, and carrying the weapon of her dead ex-boyfriend) and her giving him a flower that represents Reunion is what set Destiny in motion.

Zack's survival itself is a mystery that's worth exploring because it's an unknown that takes a direct look at what happens if things DO go down the "What If...?" route with something. It's easy to walk down that path with the rose-colored glasses of saving your friend, but it's much harder to take a more honest look at what overwriting all of reality over a single fate would do to everything else that you've come to know and care about and love. The screams of the Planet and the Whispers representing that Destiny that are undulating within Sephiroth that Cloud severs at the end of Remake are those who lived, Died, and RETURNED TO THE PLANET. Their howls of pain don't reach Sephiroth, but instead all of those moments & memories, precious & fleeting are like rain rolling off of his back, and he doesn't care if all those things are lost.

The Destiny that Cloud sundered at the end of Remake are events of Zack's death.

I don't at all think that it's a coincidence that that're specifically mentioning the story leading to Advent Children, given that the climactic scene of Advent Children Complete is where Cloud's Omnislash from the original game is countered by Sephiroth hit-for-hit, and Cloud gets impaled in a trigger to Nibelheim, and is subsequently cut down to the point of total helplessness... at which point Cloud ends up sliding outside of space-time to have a conversation with Zack in a location that doesn't exist in the real world, and then counters and defeats Sephiroth with Omnislash VERSION 5.

Dealing with loss is facing trauma which is dealing with a cyclical repetition of that pain that's just a little bit of a different version of the exact same thing over and over and over again. It's finding new ways to approach that narrative in order to be stronger having overcome it by the time you reach the end.

One part I can’t reconcile (and apologies, I've mentioned this elsewhere)..

In Advent Children, the entire party wears pink ribbons in remembrance of Aerith.

In Rebirth, the new synergy mechanic was created to highlight the bonds between the characters and their growth throughout the story. This has been stated in multiple recent interviews by Hamaguchi.

So it feels a bit contradictory to me to have Vincent and Cid be AI-controlled guests who may or may not even travel with the party throughout Rebirth. I find it mighty suspicious.

As a massive fan of Remake’s battle system, it’s especially saddening that I may never have Cloud, Aerith, and Vincent together in a playable party. My favorite characters. This is, of course, possible in the original game.

I covered a number of reasons that Cid & Vincent make MORE sense being slightly removed from the main cast for this arc of the story, and how doing that actually serves as a catalyst to bring them in much closer to everyone else during the final game, while still giving a slight differentiation between them and the other Midgar-centric members of the party. Essentially, the Pink Ribbon is still representative of the person who helped to bring them all together and forged a bond between them.

You might be surprised how much the death of someone who's a member of a "core group" will end up bringing together a number of the people who were always just standing on the outside of that as a result. Speaking from experience, when the Program Manager of my team died unexpectedly despite her being extremely close friends with her team (consisting of myself & two others, as well as my boss), people who felt close to us as well as to her but weren't a part of that core group felt that loss just from the time that they'd spent with her in a way where they understood that loss of someone who meant a lot to them despite only having a fraction of the number of shared interactions that any one of us did.

Touching other people's lives isn't just about a cumulative series of constant presence or doing all sorts of things together, as sometimes it can even just be a few short conversations that form a bond that matters to that person which can get lost. Cid & Vincent existing on the outskirts can help to showcase how you don't HAVE to be one of the main members to feel that same pain and loss, because all of you lost that same person to the same circumstances. It makes you constantly yearn to have taken opportunities that don't exist now and never will – because it never felt like there was an arbitrary timer placed on those things and you never felt the drive to try and push closer because of that... but the undeniable reminder that life is fragile and short will change that.

Cid & Vincent's characters are ALREADY defined by loss. Vincent by the loss of someone he loved who was committed to something that he knew endangered her and couldn't stop, and Cid by the loss of his dream because he wouldn't seize that at the expense of the life of the person he loved even if they were willing to throw it away like it was nothing, and both of them are trapped in a cyclical type of regret and existential conflict that the entire party doesn't experience collectively UNTIL the Forgotten Capital.

That's why Zack's survival being on the table matters.

If you can't stop it from happening – you can still reverse it... BUT SHOULD YOU?

Cid got the ok from Shera to launch anyway. She was ok with a reality where he erased her in pursuit of the dream he'd had, despite knowing that it would erase any possibility of a future with her in it... and he aborted that launch, and they ended up unable to escape that pain for years afterwards... until he literally names a new airship after her. Vincent even manages to find Lucrecia but he tells her that her son Sephiroth who she loves and never even got to hold is dead, despite the fact that he's alive because he doesn't want her to have the hope of seeing him again, only for them to have to kill him.

Both of their stories are inextricably intertwined into the psychological strife with complications that don't take place until AFTER the Forgotten Capital, but I don't think that them being characters who feel more like Red XIII did in Remake will diminish that, but rather I think that understanding Red XIII's loss with Ceto and him still being a child who eventually comes to be closer to the party despite initially being less of a "core member" throughout Rebirth will emphasize that Vincent & Cid are just as important as everyone else going into the next game.

The "core group" don't feel an ownership over the experience of that loss, because they don't know what any of the moments that Aerith shared with them really meant to them. She's the type of person where even a simple conversation might hit them very personally in a way where they think about it and her absence all the time. Zack giving her the pink ribbon on their first date sets an establishing theme of that to represent their shared connection and Aerith still wearing it constantly after his death is really just her ALREADY doing the same thing in Final Fantasy VII that everyone else is doing to symbolize their continued attachment to her in spite of that loss in Advent Children.

View attachment 14036I'm wondering if this background is Northern Crater/forgotten capital

The rock surface sliced into squares with the glowing green below motif has pretty much always been the North Crater where the Jenova Synthesis boss fight takes place. It's definitely interesting to see that particular visual used here, but especially since Remake used the Edge of Creation, it makes me curious if there's going to be a similar sort of foreshadowing or not in the finale of Rebirth.



X :neo:
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
View attachment 14034

The irony that I can see it here but not on any of the twitter accounts I have

View attachment 14035

Good post anyway Pixel. Maybe one day I'll understand you :monster:
I wasn't active back then so I have no idea whatever happened with Pixel, but he deleted his twitter days after posting this so I can't help but feel like you cursed him by acknowledging this lol.
 

Sephiroth Crescent

Way Ahead of the Plot
I'm wondering if this background is Northern Crater/forgotten capital
I'd say that's the Forgotten City.
If you look closely you can see some Cetra writing drawn on the floor, and I don't think it would make sense to have that on the crater depths.

Compare these two shots:
8f8b5a8f3a8fd80247f239ab591nzhk5.JPG

4e548e59ea534be9017950c1bb1nzhc5.JPG

Also, here's some higher res shots from the latest news:
Final-Fantasy-VII-Rebirth_2023_11-17-23_004.png
Final-Fantasy-VII-Rebirth_2023_11-17-23_026.pngf0eeef0eeeb7dbd7968c6e7d8d1nzgx5.JPG
@cold_spirit I know that Aerith one isn't perfectly hi-res/hi-quality either but would you edit that one like you did with the lower res version?

And two extra cover art shots:
visual_pc.jpgvisual_pc_.jpg
 

Lex

Administrator
I wasn't active back then so I have no idea whatever happened with Pixel, but he deleted his twitter days after posting this so I can't help but feel like you cursed him by acknowledging this lol.

With the caveat that I won't go into too much detail because I don't want to dredge old stuff up and cause anything, I'll make a few notes here.

He was an OG member and also is the person who created the YouTube - he is responsible for the audiobooks, and a lot of the really good TLS content (particularly YouTube content). He is definitely one of the best creative talents I've come across in the FFVII fandom in all the years I've been on the internet tbh.

There is some awkward old drama stuff that I won't go into (not related to me), but aside from that he really didn't like me or any of the other site/content staff who tried to reach out to him to discuss content etc. I could speculate and say it was maybe a mixture of my "managerial" style with maybe feeling like I was stepping on his toes, but I was very clear always that he was his own thing and I didn't want to ever dictate what he did, just work together on content. I think there was a disagreement toward the end where he basically said a lot of stuff and then wouldn't hear anyone out.

He wouldn't - or did not want to - communicate with me or anyone else on staff about anything and was short and/ or (I personally found) hostile/ evasive when I tried. I believe he read malice or intent behind some of the things I said that genuinely was not there for me. I'm not going to sit here and say I was a saint, because I did struggle, was younger at the time and was frustrated that he just wouldn't have a human conversation with me. But I can say with genuine honesty from my side that the vibe I got was that I just pissed him off by talking to him. It was a bit like he was angry at me, or at TLS in general, and wouldn't talk to us about it, and then he left. And more than one of us tried to talk to him, and he just said he didn't want to talk about any of it, and then he was gone.

As I've gotten older I've run into one or two other people like him and I've learned that sometimes people just don't like you. They draw a line in the sand in their head, decide they don't want to know you and don't want to give you the opportunity to prove them wrong. It's their perogative. He was my first brush with this kind of attitude and it was a couple of years later until I understood it fully. I'm sure he feels he has his reasons, and that's OK.

He's very talented and I'll always respect the work he puts out for the VII fandom (when he doesn't block me from it I guess, but given the complexity of our past relationship I don't really seek out his stuff), and that's really the bottom line. Whatever lingering hostility there may be from him will never stop me from cheering him on to continue, because he's an asset to the VII community and he always has been.

With Rebirth coming soon I sometimes fantasise about not being such a divisive figure tbh. It'd be nice to move around in the VII fandom and make posts to discuss the lore again without all the baggage - it's disheartening to be blocked from FFVII meme accounts. Maybe I should make a burner and go back to just... talking about the game. What a thought.
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
The rock surface sliced into squares with the glowing green below motif has pretty much always been the North Crater where the Jenova Synthesis boss fight takes place. It's definitely interesting to see that particular visual used here, but especially since Remake used the Edge of Creation, it makes me curious if there's going to be a similar sort of foreshadowing or not in the finale of Rebirth.

I'd say that's the Forgotten City.
If you look closely you can see some Cetra writing drawn on the floor, and I don't think it would make sense to have that on the crater depths.

I zoomed in as much as my phone would allow, and I couldn't see the Cetra writing on the floor of the difficulty screen. Imo it looks more like the NC, but I am wondering if they're going to combine/move the two locations a lot closer so they're not as far apart and potentially combine two events. IDK, probably not. I'm trying to envision different possibilities of how the events could play out though.

This is for anyone
One thing that's for sure, is we're going to end at the Forgotten Capital. What could that mean for the story though? At face value, I take that means Aerith's death is at the end of the game. If they go that route, I don't think that'd be very suspenseful/mysterious. Especially if they don't have Cloud do it this time.

I think they should have the Forgotten Capital/Aerith death take place around the midway point, similar to FF7. This way it'd be a surprise for everyone and part of this game we get to see more character development post her death. They could still have the final battle take place at NC against Jenova Death (3 total battles against Jenova throughout the game). Have some of the execution scene in Junon. Then an ending scene of Red, Vincent, Yuffie, Cid and Cait Sith in the Forgotten Capital planning how to save Tifa and Barret. This would be my preference, but I'm fine with whatever as long as the story is still good. Just please have Cloud kill Aerith haha
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
I don't want Cloud to kill Aerith and I want to play my favourite character (my main) for the whole of the second game and get my money's worth so no :pinkmonster:

But I want to get my money's worth as well! In order for that to happen, Cloud has to kill her. Grrrrrrr
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
Here's a full-res image of it, cropped. I've marked places where it is easier to distinguish the pattern and also adjusted the lighting a bit.
View attachment 14044

Those patterns are actually everywhere on the ground texture, though.
Yeah, I definitely couldn't see those on my phone lol.

It's possible this is still NC, but there were Cetra that lived there. They likely lived across the whole planet
 

Sephiroth Crescent

Way Ahead of the Plot
@cold_spirit Thanks!

While I'm still surprised by how much content there seems to be on REBIRTH, and every time I keep telling myself I don't want to see more of what little bits they unleash only to actually give up and go watch it... I'm still a bit sad it won't end on the North Crater Reunion line of events.

I know it's very unlikely and kinda weird but...
Let's say we get Forgotten City events happen followed by the Northern Cave and then somehow some party member(s) returning there for the game's ending. It would make true what has been said about where the game is ending, but is there any way this could actually work well?
Can any of you imagine some decent scenario for that?
 
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null

Mr. Thou
AKA
null
I zoomed in as much as my phone would allow, and I couldn't see the Cetra writing on the floor of the difficulty screen. Imo it looks more like the NC, but I am wondering if they're going to combine/move the two locations a lot closer so they're not as far apart and potentially combine two events. IDK, probably not. I'm trying to envision different possibilities of how the events could play out though.

This is for anyone
One thing that's for sure, is we're going to end at the Forgotten Capital. What could that mean for the story though? At face value, I take that means Aerith's death is at the end of the game. If they go that route, I don't think that'd be very suspenseful/mysterious. Especially if they don't have Cloud do it this time.

I think they should have the Forgotten Capital/Aerith death take place around the midway point, similar to FF7. This way it'd be a surprise for everyone and part of this game we get to see more character development post her death. They could still have the final battle take place at NC against Jenova Death (3 total battles against Jenova throughout the game). Have some of the execution scene in Junon. Then an ending scene of Red, Vincent, Yuffie, Cid and Cait Sith in the Forgotten Capital planning how to save Tifa and Barret. This would be my preference, but I'm fine with whatever as long as the story is still good. Just please have Cloud kill Aerith haha

I would end it right after Barret opens the window to show Meteor in the sky. Cloud's gone, WEAPON is rampaging, all hell is breaking loose, and they're gonna be executed on live TV. Rufus hair flip, cut to black, Hardwired by Metallica plays over "The Unknown Journey Will Conclude". Now that's a cliffhanger!

Anyway, I'm not worried. Based on OG alone I thought it would be awkward to end Remake as the party leaves Midgar, but they introduced enough content to make it feel like a proper ending, even if the content was polarizing. Maybe Rebirth ends with Zack pulling some Quantum Leap shit.
 

Sephiroth Crescent

Way Ahead of the Plot
I know it's very unlikely and kinda weird but...
Let's say we get Forgotten City events happen followed by the Northern Cave and then somehow some party member(s) returning there for the game's ending. It would make true what has been said about where the game is ending, but is there any way this could actually work well?
Can any of you imagine some decent scenario for that?
I think they should have the Forgotten Capital/Aerith death take place around the midway point, similar to FF7. This way it'd be a surprise for everyone and part of this game we get to see more character development post her death. They could still have the final battle take place at NC against Jenova Death (3 total battles against Jenova throughout the game). Have some of the execution scene in Junon. Then an ending scene of Red, Vincent, Yuffie, Cid and Cait Sith in the Forgotten Capital planning how to save Tifa and Barret. This would be my preference, but I'm fine with whatever as long as the story is still good. Just please have Cloud kill Aerith haha
Sorry, totally forgot about that part of your previous message. Unlike you and @null however, I think Barret opening that window to unveil Meteor would make for a nice Part 3 opening followed by the execution scene. I really don't think we are going to see the Reunion event on REBIRTH, but...
Oh, well.
:shrug:
 

Golden Ear

Pro Adventurer
AKA
M. Prod
I would end it right after Barret opens the window to show Meteor in the sky. Cloud's gone, WEAPON is rampaging, all hell is breaking loose, and they're gonna be executed on live TV.

Right after Barret pulls down the blinds and reveals Meteor to Tifa the door handle starts to jostle. We all expect it to be Rufus but instead a guy with spikey black hair carrying a buster sword busts in the door 'C'mon follow me! We have to get out of here......NOW!"

The camera does a close up dramatic shot of Tifa looking shocked as she says "...Zack??!" as the music swells and the shot fades to black. ROLL CREDITS.

I'm joking.
 
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LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
Sorry, totally forgot about that part of your previous message. Unlike you and @null however, I think Barret opening that window to unveil Meteor would make for a nice Part 3 opening followed by the execution scene. I really don't think we are going to see the Reunion event on REBIRTH, but...
Oh, well.
:shrug:
What would the cliffhanger be for Rebirth though?

I think having the reunion take place at the end of Rebirth fits with the title of the game. That is when Sephiroth is "reborn."
 
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Roundhouse

Pro Adventurer
'As I've gotten older I've run into one or two other people like him and I've learned that sometimes people just don't like you. They draw a line in the sand in their head, decide they don't want to know you and don't want to give you the opportunity to prove them wrong. It's their perogative. He was my first brush with this kind of attitude and it was a couple of years later until I understood it fully.'

This probably sounds really obvious to some but is honestly quite wise. It took me a while to figure this out too.

Some people go even farther than that, and become actively hostile towards you. Reminds me of this quote:

1700790489268.png
 
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