Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yeah, I agree it's not too big of a difference either way and that the proper pronunciation is more easily conveyed to an English speaker with the "a-e" order. They're going to pronounce it like "air" that way, which is, of course, the way that "e-a" is pronounced in Japanese -- as in エアコン ("eakon"), or "air con[ditioner]."

 

[DLPB]

Ypu still looking through that document? There is 1 thing I am unsure about, we got "pagoda of the Five Sacred Warriors" for the pagoda, but elsewhere I have seen it listed as 5 God's....but I thought leviathan was the only protector god of Wutai?

 

[DLPB]

What does ultimania say about it? I had it translated by Luksy and he is very competant. But what do you get it as?

The general idea is that Wutai is protected by warriors or by some gods or by something sacred? And when you defeat say Shake, you gain that power from him.

The ultimate power being leviathan. See what Ultimania says so we can be sure

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

EDIT: Combined my two posts on this matter for ease of reading.

Ypu still looking through that document? There is 1 thing I am unsure about, we got "pagoda of the Five Sacred Warriors" for the pagoda, but elsewhere I have seen it listed as 5 God's....but I thought leviathan was the only protector god of Wutai?

I'm glad you asked about that. I meant to bring it up and forgot due to falling asleep.

When written as 五強の塔 I would translate it as "Pagoda of the Five Powers."

強=strong, powerful or mighty

Since there's nothing it's actually being an adjective to there, though, it just works better in English as "powers." Better than "five strengths" anyway.

When written as 五強聖の塔, though, I'd translate it as "mighty sages." When used as a prefix, 聖 can mean "holy," "sacred" or "Saint" (such as before a name; ex: St. Peter would be 聖ペト&#12525, but used as it is here, I'm pretty sure it's meant to be "sages." "Gods" was apparently another mistake in the translation.

What does ultimania say about it? I had it translated by Luksy and he is very competant. But what do you get it as?

The general idea is that Wutai is protected by warriors or by some gods or by something sacred? And when you defeat say Shake, you gain that power from him.

The ultimate power being leviathan. See what Ultimania says so we can be sure

All the Ultimania really says is this (pg. 144):

ウ―タイの水神様
街の人からは、ヘビのような姿の水神様が五強聖やダチャオ像とともにウ―タイを守っている、という話が聞ける。この「水神様」とは、召喚獣リヴイアサンのこと。

Wutai's water god
From people in the town the story can be heard that Wutai is protected by a water god with the appearance of a snake, together with the Five Mighty Sages and the Da Chao Statue. This "water god" is the summon beast Leviathan.

 

[DLPB]

This needs further study Sage seems to be the wrong word in this context? I mean, here we have 5 people who fight and attack your party....hardly "sage like" but also that

http://www.saiga-jp.com/cgi-bin/dic.cgi?m=search&sc=0&f=0&j=%E5%BC%B7&g=&e=&s=&rt=0&start=1&sid=1267140187_23669

Lists as "power" or the like. The mighty.

In the game, 5 in the pagoda have been given 5 powers, and you fight those 5 with those powers.

http://www.saiga-jp.com/cgi-bin/dic...=聖&g=&e=&s=&rt=0&start=1&sid=1267140187_23669

I think what they are getting at here is "Pagoda of the Five Sacred/Holy Powers" or perhaps just "powerful" referring to the 5 like Shake, Gorky etc

I am into context, and I just don't see how Sage can work here? What do you think?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm going to hope that hito will chime in if I get any of this wrong.

If it were written as 五聖強の塔 instead, it could be "Five Sacred Powers," but that's with 聖 being used as a prefix. As actually written, 聖 follows 強, so 強 is modifying 聖 rather than the other way around.

I still think 五強の塔 would be best written in English as "Pagoda of the Five Powers," but 五強聖の塔 is almost certainly "Pagoda of the Five Mighty Sages" -- though I don't think anyone would hold it against you if you used "Priests" instead of "Sages" if you feel that would fit better.

Personally, I'd go with "Sages." 老師 -- one of three ways of saying "priest" in Japanese that is coming to mind for me at the moment -- also carries the "sage" meaning (this was the word that became "maester" in the English translation of FFX, by the way), while 司祭 refers to Christian priests and 神主 refers to Shinto priests.

Obviously none of those are terribly similar to 聖, while 聖人 is (meaning "saint," "sage" or "holy man"). For the sake of mentioning, the latter is also apparently synonymous with 賢者.

Given that you fight Godo and the rest on the grounds of Wutai's primary shrine (that's what the building next to the pagoda is identified as in the Ultimania Omega; pp. 285-286), and given that they're apparently in charge of maintaining and protecting the premises as well as the sacred materia of the Wutai deity, I definitely think that something along the lines of "sage" or "priest" is called for.

As for the accuracy and applicability of "sage," keep in mind that this is Final Fantasy. Just look at the Sage job class:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Sage

Guys like Tellah belong to that group, as do, arguably, the maesters of Yevon. Those guys -- especially Seymour and Kinoc -- are anything but pacificists, and at least two of them are magic users and summoners.

Your call, of course, but that's my assessment.

 

[DLPB]

I will see what Luksy and Hito say first and see if there is a concensus

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Sounds good.

 

[Strangelove]

If it were written as 五聖強の塔 instead, it could be "Five Sacred Powers," but that's with 聖 being used as a prefix. As actually written, 聖 follows 強, so 強 is modifying 聖 rather than the other way around.

I still think 五強の塔 would be best written in English as "Pagoda of the Five Powers," but 五強聖の塔 is almost certainly "Pagoda of the Five Mighty Sages" -- though I don't think anyone would hold it against you if you used "Priests" instead of "Sages" if you feel that would fit better.

There's actually a man in Wutai who says 五強聖 refers to the people anyway

http://rokoran.com/ff7hokankeikaku/ff7/script/ss16-utai.htm

「五強聖とは力、速、魔、武
　そして、すべてをかねそなえた
　総の５人を意味します」

"Sages" would probably work. I can't really think of a alternate suggestion for a 'sacred master' type work at the moment anyway

 

[DLPB]

Maybe it is the job class afterall, but it just seems a very odd thing to call them, I would expect "5 warriors" or "5 powerful" over sages...anyday...

 

[Strangelove]

"Sage" makes me think of someone more spiritual or religious, which might work for the 'magic' one, but I don't know how sagely you can be for 'being really fast' or 'punching people in the face really hard'

 

[DLPB]

"Sage" makes me think of someone more spiritual or religious, which might work for the 'magic' one, but I don't know how sagely you can be for 'being really fast' or 'punching people in the face really hard'

yeah that is the weird thing...

 

[Strangelove]

Thesaurus tells me some other words for 'master' (since how I'm seeing it, these people have all mastered a certain trait, and if 'master' isn't a good enough name) are 'maven', 'doyen', and 'adept'. Although none actually including anything about holiness, and 'doyen' is masculine (and IIRC one of them is a woman, which should be 'doyenne').

Which leaves 'sage', combining two ones (one for 'mighty/master' and one for 'holy'), or mucking around with Latin or something and making up a new word for it

 

[DLPB]

hahaha cool

So basically it is referring to the 5 masters (well sage but you get me)

So how about we just use master and be done with it? Is there anything else that can work, because sage doesn't really work here, even if it is taken as the job class.

Main Entry: sage Part of Speech: noun Definition: wise person Synonyms:

guide, guru, intellect, intellectual, learned person, mahatma, master, mentor, philosopher, pundit, savant, teacher, thinker, wise man/woman
I think it works.... "master"

Pagoda of the Five Powerful Masters

Any case that won't fit in the game (23 character limit) so will have to be reduced to : Pagoda of the 5 Masters

Definately not Pagoda of the Five Powerful Mahatmas


edit:

Eveyone is in agreement that it is indeed "Mighty Sages" and that context can shift this to "Mighty/Powerful Masters"

Thanks for spotting this, it is a nice correction. Hope Hito and Tres haven't abandoned the check through at my forum?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Eveyone is in agreement that it is indeed "Mighty Sages" and that context can shift this to "Mighty/Powerful Masters"

Yep, sounds workable to me.

Hope Hito and Tres haven't abandoned the check through at my forum?

Don't worry, I'm still working on it! My job has kept me from checking as much as I'd have liked the last couple of days, but I've not given up on it.

Sleep has somewhat encroached on it as well.

 

[DLPB]

Think yourself lucky you didn't have to stay up all night endlessly like I did.

Also What is your opinion on especially:

Zax
Zeng
Irina

Frostbite Cave > 千年霜柱の洞窟 > Cave of the Stalactites [Cave of the Thousand Year Old Stalactites but cut due to space

Fire > 炎 > Flame
Ice > 冷 > Cold

Kalm > カーム > Kalm (not calm?)

Other news:

Omnislash and Bewilder cannot be caught up with the remaining votes, and so they are voted in. I have overuled the vote on Turtle Paradise in favour or lounge (it is an excellent suggestion and is equal with paradise despite coming into the vote late)

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Think yourself lucky you didn't have to stay up all night endlessly like I did.

Also What is your opinion on especially:

Zax
Zeng
Irina

Frostbite Cave > 千年霜柱の洞窟 > Cave of the Stalactites [Cave of the Thousand Year Old Stalactites but cut due to space

Fire > 炎 > Flame

All of those sound good to me. I like that you're going with "Zeng," by the way, given the derivation of the character's name.

Ice > 冷 > Cold

I'd either keep it as "Ice" or make it "Frost" -- preferably the latter, just because it sounds so much cooler and would fit better thematically with "Flame" in my opinion. "Cold" refers to relative temperature, but "flame" doesn't -- it's more a manifestation/phenomenon, as frost and ice are.

Kalm > カーム > Kalm (not calm?)

I'd go with your own preference/whatever the votes come out as on this one.

Other news:

Omnislash and Bewilder cannot be caught up with the remaining votes, and so they are voted in. I have overuled the vote on Turtle Paradise in favour or lounge (it is an excellent suggestion and is equal with paradise despite coming into the vote late)

Well that's good news.

 

[DLPB]

yeah you are right....of course there are things in VII move wise such as "Cold Breath" and "Freeze Beam" and "Flame Emission" which suggest that the "cold" and "Flame" is more the words they wre looking for but as you say, Flame is not "heat"

tbh they have tried to be clever rearranging the classical names. For example:

Fire has become Flame
Air has become Wind

It is a tough one to be sure but the kanji is very specific let's be honest

oh and example:

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Certainly the kanji are specific, yeah. Just one of those liberties I would be personally willing to take, like "warriors" instead of "sages."

 

[DLPB]

Why couldn't they have made it easier for me That menu needs a lil look at too later I think. I don't like all those dashes and full stops. I will ask about how to resize that window too if need be, I am sure it is just a hex value somewhere....

Can you think of something better for death blow? given it is "certain kill"

 

[Strangelove]

Reading up to Tifa's weapons:

Valvados: According to this page, 'Valvados' was one of the gods worshipped in the lost continent of Mu in Cthulhu mythos. (ヴァルヴァドス・・・クトゥルー神話。古代ム－大陸で崇拝されていた神の一つ&#12290 I can't seem to find much else to back it up, but I don't know much about Cthulhu mythos.

Domino and Hutt: possibly a reference to the pizza delivery companies (Dominos and Pizza Hut). The Ultimania Omega mentions the possibly of a connection between their names and Barret calling the plate of Midgar a 'rotten pizza'.

Mukki, Kocchi, Socchi: These are probably jokey names. 'Kocchi' and 'socchi' mean 'this [person]' and 'that [person]' respectively, and 'mukimuki' describes a really muscular body type (like what Mukki has).

ザ0 > Za0> [Possibly used as "The" and 0. Unknown at this time]

I don't know if the 0 is meant to be ・ and got messed up somehow (as in ザ･[name], 'The [name]').

テクニカ > tekunika > Technique

Is there a reason you didn't go for Technika/Technica?

Locker Room > ひかえ室 > Spare Room

控え室 is a waiting room. (I can't remember where this was, from the looks of the original name I guess in Junon where you're mistaken for a Shinra soldier?)

Respectable Inn > 上級者の館 > Upper Class Inn

Isn't this one related to the Beginner's Hall? (The place in Junon where you learn more about how to play the game?)

Shanghai Inn > 上海亭１階 > Shanghai Inn, 1F

亭 is used more for places serving food and drinks, or with a theatre for shows and music, than inns, I think.

 

[DLPB]

Valvados: According to this page, 'Valvados' was one of the gods worshipped in the lost continent of Mu in Cthulhu mythos. (ヴァルヴァドス・・・クトゥルー神話。古代ム－大陸で崇拝されていた神の一つ&#12290 I can't seem to find much else to back it up, but I don't know much about Cthulhu mythos.

I will look into it, although at the moment I cannot see anything with "Valvados". I will do more checking for what it could refer to in that mythology.


Domino and Hutt: possibly a reference to the pizza delivery companies (Dominos and Pizza Hut). The Ultimania Omega mentions the possibly of a connection between their names and Barret calling the plate of Midgar a 'rotten pizza'.

That would be really cool Would the game designers (japanese) know of these places though?

Mukki, Kocchi, Socchi: These are probably jokey names. 'Kocchi' and 'socchi' mean 'this [person]' and 'that [person]' respectively, and 'mukimuki' describes a really muscular body type (like what Mukki has).

Didn't know origin of Mukki, will add it We did have a discussion on Kocchi and Socci to rename them something like "Hier" and "thur" or just "here" "there" but they are so poor names we left the Japanese intact


I don't know if the 0 is meant to be ・ and got messed up somehow (as in ザ･[name], 'The [name]').

Does "The" appear as a part of the names in the Chocobo square?

Is there a reason you didn't go for Technika/Technica?

There is a limit of around 2 or 4 characters for names in the Japanese game, and I figured Technique is probably what they meant? As a chocobo name. As a suffix, I would expect that....

控え室 is a waiting room. (I can't remember where this was, from the looks of the original name I guess in Junon where you're mistaken for a Shinra soldier?)

You are right.

Respectable Inn > 上級者の館 > Upper Class Inn

Isn't this one related to the Beginner's Hall? (The place in Junon where you learn more about how to play the game?)

Yup, you appear to be correct. Inn is wrong. It seems to come out as "Advanced Hall" or something (as opposed to the Beginner's Hall). Hmmm does 者 suggest this to be "Expert's Hall"


Shanghai Inn > 上海亭１階 > Shanghai Inn, 1F

亭 is used more for places serving food and drinks, or with a theatre for shows and music, than inns, I think.

We did discuss this, and indeed it does have a small plce for serving food and drink. It also has an Inn there too. However, Dilly dally mentioned that 亭 is chinese in this case and therefore is Inn

Keep up the good work!

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Domino and Hutt: possibly a reference to the pizza delivery companies (Dominos and Pizza Hut). The Ultimania Omega mentions the possibly of a connection between their names and Barret calling the plate of Midgar a 'rotten pizza'.

That would be really cool Would the game designers (japanese) know of these places though?

Definitely:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ドミノ・ピザ
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ピザハット

 

[DLPB]

That case I will take Ultimanias word for it and go with it

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elder_God_%28Cthulhu_Mythos%29#Vorvadoss

Could this be the one

Only thing I see here is that Vo has become Va ? A deliberate change? Or it could be as I said, and come from Norse Varva

 

[Strangelove]

The most common spellings for Vorvadoss in Japanese seem to be ヴォルバドス, ボルバドス or ヴォルヴァドス. But it's possible, given how close it is, that they just changed one letter of it. I guess without asking the guy how made it, you'll never know for certain.

Didn't know origin of Mukki, will add it We did have a discussion on Kocchi and Socci to rename them something like "Hier" and "thur" or just "here" "there" but they are so poor names we left the Japanese intact

Mukki sounds more like a name (But but you can see where it comes from. But the other two just sound like Don Corneo cba with their actual names.

Does "The" appear as a part of the names in the Chocobo square?

I didn't bother with the Chocobo racing last time I played it, so I don't remember

http://marie.saiin.net/~ffpocket/data/ff7bc/gold/chokobo.html

That site (those it seems to be more about BC, it does mention the names that appeared in the original game) just lists it as 'za', so maybe the '0' indicates a blank space or something. The dot looks nicer to me, but that's if we're talking about Japanese/if I know what I'm talking about anymore

There is a limit of around 2 or 4 characters for names in the Japanese game, and I figured Technique is probably what they meant? As a chocobo name. As a suffix, I would expect that....

Technique would usually be テクニック, I think. I don't know what 'Technica' is supposed to mean, I was used assume it was meant to sound fancy.

Yup, you appear to be correct. Inn is wrong. It seems to come out as "Advanced Hall" or something (as opposed to the Beginner's Hall). Hmmm does 者 suggest this to be "Expert's Hall"

I think Expert's Hall works because, as far as matching the Japanese and the name of the other one goes.

We did discuss this, and indeed it does have a small plce for serving food and drink. It also has an Inn there too. However, Dilly dally mentioned that 亭 is chinese in this case and therefore is Inn

Ah, I wouldn't know about Chinese In Japanese it seems mostly for places with food and drink/entertainment (it was in the name of that pub in FFXII where you first get to take on missions). But since it's 'Shanghai' maybe it is going for the Chinese usage.