Final Fantasy XIII-2 (Spoiler Thread)

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
Does anyone with the XIII-2 Ultimanias know if there is coverage of Sazh's story, and especially pictures of the cards - at least Jack, Queen and King?

I took some pictures, but they are not clear, unfortunately. Still, if you look at those three cards and read the script, you learn that Lindzei is the Jack/Joker card, Etro is the Queen card, and Pulse is the King card (with Cocoon behind him!).

If someone would be so kind, if there are clearer pictures, to try and get a good picture of those three, I'd be quite grateful. I'm especially interested in Lindzei's.
 

Fangu

Great Old One
Okay I just realized that in Sunleth, when you ride that big beast thingy - after you jump off it, it actually goes underneath the plateau you stand on and turns around.

It might sound silly to be impressed by something like that, but they didn't have to add that detail; it's back could easily go as being either facing forward or backwards. Also, the attention to detail in the leafy stuff on it's back... yeah. That sequence used to annoy me but now I really like it.

Replaying the game has also made me realize that Noel really is head over heels for Yuel.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
A good question. Given what little sense the rest of XIII-2's plot makes, though, I wouldn't expect an answer.

As nonsensical as that is, it's probably the least egregious of the plot issues with the game. Still don't see how they could have thought any of this was the logical follow-up to the first game.
 

Lex

Administrator
I assumed Valhalla was just outside of the timeline, as in the people there don't age.
 

Alex Strife

Ex-SOLDIER
^ Exactly. If there truly was no time, you couldn't even move.

So clouds (and weather) move the same way people move in there. Quite easy in fact.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Which really begs the question of why there are clouds/sun/weather there to begin with, but I've given up on trying to make sense of that plot. I'm just along for the ride at this point and hope Lightning Returns is decent.
 

Alex Strife

Ex-SOLDIER
I guess aesthetics.

But you know what? If I made a game with this type of stuff (timeless place, etc.), I'd try to get right as much stuff as possible, even if it looked eerie. Because that'd make for a GREAT game, aesthetically speaking.

Yes, I'm a fan of eerie-looking stuff.
 

Fangu

Great Old One
Well, I can see the variety of clouds and light, but I've yet to see an actual sun. The 'sunny' pic it looks like the light is coming from beneath; the sky is still dark. *giving the logic a helpful hand*

Nah I really don't care about the artistic use of light, colors and logics. As long as it's pretty I'm okay with it :P Also, is time that stands still really time? Bc they never said Valhalla has no time, it's just outside the timeline, in an endless loop. I do wonder how they're gonna explain all of that in LR:XIII though... cue several more in game speeches about time! Oh boy.

I played through A Dying World tonight. Love all of it. Poor Noel :'
 

Alex Strife

Ex-SOLDIER
I played through A Dying World tonight. Love all of it. Poor Noel :'

So much yes. I love that section of the game. I don't know why but I found it to be very powerful. It's possible that the whole strange lighting in that part helped greatly. Very cinematic.

(See? Told you. I like odd stuff).

But now talking seriously. I already said it before, but I loved that part of the game.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
That's the only part of the actual story I found good. A lot of that portion's success comes from Noel being such a likable character.

As for time in Valhalla, "logically" (as much as it can get with this game anyway), there should be none there because of the Chaos. In that interview with Toriyama and Watanabe from the XIII-2 Ultimania Omega, it's said that there is no time there:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/619315-final-fantasy-xiii-2/63314579

It's that same interview where we found out it doesn't have toilets. :monster:
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
That's the only part of the actual story I found good. A lot of that portion's success comes from Noel being such a likable character.

I played through A Dying World tonight. Love all of it. Poor Noel :'

THANK YOU.

I have no idea why a lot of people seem to hate Noel. Many have tried to justify this hate by saying he could have been easily replaced by any of the old characters from the previous game. Which I don't get at all.

His backstory was unique to him and pretty much only worked BECAUSE it was him. He was the time traveler from the future, the last human to be born. The sadness of all of this wouldn't have worked for any old character, seeing as all of them had been already developed in the previous game.

As much as I'd loved to see more Sazh and Fang and Snow without DLCs, they wouldn't have worked if they were put in his role. None of FFXIII-2's plot would've worked on anyone either way because... time travel, people crystallized, new antagonist, etc etc.

Sorry I ranted. I just love seeing Noel being loved. :3



Speaking of Noel being "the last human to be born", I'm pretty sure he said it himself once, but I've always wondered why he said this when Yeul was clearly younger than him. Wouldn't that make Yeul the last one to be born? Or did he not consider her human? :O

Also, whatever happened to Alyssa? I haven't gotten 100% completion but I've been hearing that after doing something, Alyssa disappears and people forget her? Maybe it was discussed before but... um... I didn't actually read the thread before this page. Heehee? :)

And Academia 400AF. I felt so bad for all the NPCs that turn into Cie'th everytime I pass by. It breaks my heart to hear a mother tell her child it's all going to be okay... then suddenly just turn into freaking Cie'th. Terrible. :sadpanda:

I have also defeated Paradox Scope'd Caius (with Serah)! :reptar: Wound and Goblin Chieftain were life-savers. I don't even know how I got 5 stars on that battle, since I took my sweet time trying to get him to Stagger then casting multiple Wounds on him.



hi :monster: i love this game
 

Fangu

Great Old One
THANK YOU.Sorry I ranted. I just love seeing Noel being loved. :3
I love your rant! Where are those people who dislike Noel so much? (On Tumblr, maybe?) I haven't come across that many people who dislike him (in fact... none?) but I can see how people would have preferred the old characters instead. But it's like you say, the storyline needed a new character to tell the story right. I'm not even sad Fang and Vanille has such small roles, because when they do appear, it's awesome. I choke up every time Serah refuses the fake Lightning and you hear Vanille's voice... aaaa it's so awesome.

Speaking of Noel being "the last human to be born", I'm pretty sure he said it himself once, but I've always wondered why he said this when Yeul was clearly younger than him. Wouldn't that make Yeul the last one to be born? Or did he not consider her human? :O
I've been pondering about that myself... I've been convinced it was just bad translation, because in New Bodhum 003 AF, he says "I was the last living human being", which I thought might have a Japanese counterpart that could be misinterpreted as "born", like maybe "alive" and "born" are the same word or something like that. I've seen other stuff that I believe are (very minor) translation fuckups (based on the very little I know about Japanese), however this would be a really big one, and I don't think they'd let it slip. So probably they mean Yuel isn't born, but reborn, so that's not the same thing. Or something?

Also, whatever happened to Alyssa? I haven't gotten 100% completion but I've been hearing that after doing something, Alyssa disappears and people forget her?
This is also something I've been wondering about... I don't like how they just abandoned her story like that. I know she was stressed out and such, but they could have played more on the 'turning into a traitor' thing, especially since they show so much of her in Bresha Ruins. I think the Alyssa thing is one of my biggest disappointments in the game. Thankfully there aren't many!

And Academia 400AF. I felt so bad for all the NPCs that turn into Cie'th everytime I pass by. It breaks my heart to hear a mother tell her child it's all going to be okay... then suddenly just turn into freaking Cie'th. Terrible. :sadpanda:
Yes, me too :(

I have also defeated Paradox Scope'd Caius (with Serah)! :reptar: Wound and Goblin Chieftain were life-savers. I don't even know how I got 5 stars on that battle, since I took my sweet time trying to get him to Stagger then casting multiple Wounds on him.
That fight is a bitch. I did the same thing (SEN + Wound). There is probably another way, but meh >_>

hi :monster: i love this game
Oh hello there, I can relate :desu:
 

Kuja9001

Ooooh Salty!
AKA
roxas9001, Krat0s9001, DarkSlayerZero
Speaking of Noel being "the last human to be born", I'm pretty sure he said it himself once, but I've always wondered why he said this when Yeul was clearly younger than him. Wouldn't that make Yeul the last one to be born? Or did he not consider her human? :O

I don't think she was "born" like regular people.

Also, whatever happened to Alyssa? I haven't gotten 100% completion but I've been hearing that after doing something, Alyssa disappears and people forget her? Maybe it was discussed before but... um... I didn't actually read the thread before this page. Heehee? :)

She was erased from history, she was a paradox.

1. She died in 13 during the Purge.
2. Etro saved the party at the end and caused the paradoxes to happen.
3. Alyssa never dies due to being time messed up instead her friend dies in her place.
4. She has nightmares about her dying.
5. She teams up with Caius and hands N/S a rigged artifact.
6. After N/S fix the paradoxes she disappears and people can barely remember her.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
The "last child" thing probably is a mistranslation, but it's easy to see how it may have been made.

Noel says (Japanese verison):

俺たちは滅びの時代に生まれた
最後の子供だった

"We were born in an age of ruin.
We were the last children."

The English version has this as:

"I lived at the end of days.
I was the very last child to be born."

Meanwhile, Noel's first Datalog (Autoclip in Japanese version) entry refers to him as 最後の人間 ("last of humanity"), which, of course, could just be in reference to him being the last living person. But his second Datalog entry calls him 人類最後の子 ("last child of humanity"), which sounds a bit more like the last to be born. It could, of course, also just also mean that he was the last living person -- but it's easy to see where someone could be confused when translating this.

Really, the mistake in localization was choosing to call Noel the "very last child to be born," which, in Japanese, would have been 「一番最後の子が生まれる」, if I'm not wrong. If I am, hopefully hito will pop in and correct me.
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
I love your rant! Where are those people who dislike Noel so much? (On Tumblr, maybe?) I haven't come across that many people who dislike him (in fact... none?) but I can see how people would have preferred the old characters instead. But it's like you say, the storyline needed a new character to tell the story right. I'm not even sad Fang and Vanille has such small roles, because when they do appear, it's awesome. I choke up every time Serah refuses the fake Lightning and you hear Vanille's voice... aaaa it's so awesome.

I've seen a lot of Noel haters on Youtube, and yeah, a bit on tumblr, and I have a friend who seriously hates him.

Whenever Fang and Vanille appear, I get all teary-eyed. I get reminded of FFXIII's ending, how beautiful it was, and I just get so emotional. :'(

What I'm really sad about is the lack of Sazh (can't buy DLCs). He's one of my favorite characters from the original game (along with Hope and Fang). It's like... why not just put everything in the disc. Why do I have to pay to see my favorite characters? I already paid for the damn game, with my miniscule allowance, in fact. I HAD TO STARVE MYSELF. :sadpanda:

I've been pondering about that myself... I've been convinced it was just bad translation, because in New Bodhum 003 AF, he says "I was the last living human being", which I thought might have a Japanese counterpart that could be misinterpreted as "born", like maybe "alive" and "born" are the same word or something like that. I've seen other stuff that I believe are (very minor) translation fuckups (based on the very little I know about Japanese), however this would be a really big one, and I don't think they'd let it slip. So probably they mean Yuel isn't born, but reborn, so that's not the same thing. Or something?
I also thought it could've been bad translation, but considering the pretty good job they did with the rest of the lines (especially since they have all those datalog things), I got more convinced that it's actually a plot-hole or something. It's not actually that hugely relevant, since we can also interpret it to mean that Yeul isn't actually human. Then again... >_>

I don't think she was "born" like regular people.

This makes me question the sense in her dying and being reborn. If she wasn't going to be born like normal people anyway, why not just make her immortal? What's the sense in her dying over and over again?

Oh Etro...
:kermit:

It does make more sense to mean he's the last human "left", which was shown by his story in the Dying World (cried during these parts, by the way, especially when he's walking around in the huge dark place all slowly and alone...). Still, I can't get the whole "last human to be born" thing out of my head. Really bothers me.

EDIT: NVM. THANKS, TRES. :awesome:

This is also something I've been wondering about... I don't like how they just abandoned her story like that. I know she was stressed out and such, but they could have played more on the 'turning into a traitor' thing, especially since they show so much of her in Bresha Ruins. I think the Alyssa thing is one of my biggest disappointments in the game. Thankfully there aren't many!

Yeah, I felt like turning the traitor thing was handled too quickly and out of nowhere. I mean, yeah, she was a bit of a bitch towards Noel and Serah the next time they met but that was all there was. In fact, it seemed natural for her to act that way because it's easy to be skeptical about the time traveling business. Then she apologized in 4XX Academia. Which was weird considering she was planning on helping Caius get rid of them. And it wasn't like Noel and Serah knew that she was a paradox (she hints them herself, but it was so offhanded anyone could've missed it).

They showed no other hints (that I know of in the main storyline) that she was working with Caius, besides that one creepy look she gave them as they entered the sabotaged gate. That was it. She could've been doing anything else than working with Caius whenever she disappears somewhere.

TL;DR: It just felt too rushed. Alyssa was also my biggest disappointment in the game. Also, she needs to get her hands off Hope. Seriously, woman, don't make me erase you from history. D<

She was erased from history, she was a paradox.

1. She died in 13 during the Purge.
2. Etro saved the party at the end and caused the paradoxes to happen.
3. Alyssa never dies due to being time messed up instead her friend dies in her place.
4. She has nightmares about her dying.
5. She teams up with Caius and hands N/S a rigged artifact.
6. After N/S fix the paradoxes she disappears and people can barely remember her.

I kind of knew 1-5 since I got that silly paradox ending with Snow, but number 6 is really where my question is at. What do I do to see this happen? Do I need to fix ALL the paradoxes, or just specific ones?

I don't look at guides much, they make my head spin with all the text. >_>

Yes, me too :(

400AF is my most hated place ever. It's the only place I looked at a guide for so I can complete the map for it and open the optional gate and get all the necessary items, so that I won't have to go back to running around it if I missed something.

Now I just stand near the NPC that has the map quest whenever I visit the timeline. :awesome:

I might need to use a guide for that Captain Cryptic minigame though. I never found him after he disappeared the second time.

That fight is a bitch. I did the same thing (SEN + Wound). There is probably another way, but meh >_>
Yeah, had to retry it three times before I figured out my strategy. I'm still missing one Paradox Scope battle with him, but I forget which one it is. :'(

Oh hello there, I can relate :desu:
:awesomonster: ORLY?

CHOCOBO RACES! :reptar:
 

Fangu

Great Old One
She was erased from history, she was a paradox.
Ah. Of course. *facepalm*

I can't remember the game explaining that straight out though, but that might be my very bad memory. But yeah, I guess they trust the player to put 2 and 2 together with her Purge talk about her friend etc... not me however :P

By the way, I seem to remember that after the whole Dying World stuff, when you go back to Academia 4XX, Alyssa isn't gone, is she? I think I remember Hope just saying something like "Alyssa goes out on her secret errands and refuse to tell me where she goes" or something, so when you go back to 4XX, the Alyssa paradox still isn't fixed? Or am I remembering this wrong...

(I played through this YESTERDAY!)

400AF is my most hated place ever. It's the only place I looked at a guide for so I can complete the map for it and open the optional gate and get all the necessary items, so that I won't have to go back to running around it if I missed something.
What annoys me is that the Encounter Master skill seemingly has no effect on that world.
 

Kuja9001

Ooooh Salty!
AKA
roxas9001, Krat0s9001, DarkSlayerZero
by the way, especially when he's walking around in the huge dark place all slowly and alone...). Still, I can't get the whole "last human to be born" thing out of my head. Really bothers me.

He gets messed up alot worse in the novel. Link -----> Click me for novel summary

What do I do to see this happen? Do I need to fix ALL the paradoxes, or just specific ones?

Game doesn't go too deep about it. She arranged Hope's & everyone else death at Augusta Tower
 

Splintered

unsavory tart

TL;DR: It just felt too rushed. Alyssa was also my biggest disappointment in the game. Also, she needs to get her hands off Hope. Seriously, woman, don't make me erase you from history. D<
I was upset about that too. All things considered this is a great emotional dilemma when you think about it. Going around fixing the world for hundreds of years in the future basically dooms a friend in her present.

It would be great to confront Alyssa about it, but instead they turned Alyssa into a scooby doo villain instead of a woman facing nonexistence.

There are parts of the game that made me think they were trying to lead up on it. Alyssa seemed extremely bothered by the thought of her dying in the Bresha Ruins, that and Alyssa was short sited and didn't care about what happened to Cocoon hundreds of years in the future- significantly different from all the other characters that rushed to save it.

If you hear some of the NPCs, a lot of them seem to be two minds about Alyssa- the ones that aren't in love with her note that she seems to aggressively work her way to the top. Fragment/datalog also reinforces this and says that a lot of people think the reason she hangs on Hope so much is because it will her help her climb the latter (although everyone agrees that she's smart of enough to have earned it). That and Noel's first impression of her isn't exactly one of trust.

It all adds up to a person that it makes sense if she did work with Caius. She's not a bad person, just ambitious and looking out for herself. She doesn't plot for evil but if she was going to die, yeah she would try everything to get out of it. In fact, Caius has speech in the next level about how going to save one person dooms another and if she's willing to take responsibility.

He's talking about Yuel of course but that could easily be referring to Alyssa as well. Serah saves the future and kills a friend, but instead of actually giving us a difficult moral choice they just gloss it over.

It's a shame D:
"Alyssa goes out on her secret errands and refuse to tell me where she goes" or something, so when you go back to 4XX, the Alyssa paradox still isn't fixed? Or am I remembering this wrong...
It's hinted that she's gone because all the NPCs around her can't remember her.

Hope is an anomaly, he keeps his memory of her and so he justifies her leaving with that. There's an NPC that has a huge crush on her that doesn't forget her as well, but is confused on why no one else seems to remember her. Iirc, in one of the ruins, there's an NPC if you talk to that discusses how paradox fixing wipes peoples memories but there is a possibility that some people will be able to hold on to them- whether luck of the draw or they just have emotional connections.

I kind of knew 1-5 since I got that silly paradox ending with Snow, but number 6 is really where my question is at. What do I do to see this happen? Do I need to fix ALL the paradoxes, or just specific ones?
As soon as you get back from the dying world, the people inside and at the entrance of the Academia building talk about it.
 
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The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Splintered said:
If you hear some of the NPCs, a lot of them seem to be two minds about Alyssa- the ones that aren't in love with her note that she seems to aggressively work her way to the top. Fragment/datalog also reinforces this and says that a lot of people think the reason she hangs on Hope so much is because it will help her climb the latter ...

Hope fangirls, you know who to ask now whether the boy is hung like a sequoia.
 

Alex Strife

Ex-SOLDIER
Technically, Noel is the last child to live, if we see Yeul dies before him. Isn't that so? Not the last to be born but... the last "child" (if we assume his age can still be called "child" somehow).
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
It's one thing if someone hates XIII-2 and what it stands for and all that jazz, but I don't see why people would hate Noel. He is the antithesis of the only male protagonists that Square seemed interested in writing at that point. A heavy, tragic past (future?) about him, but he was headstrong and confident, and still managed to grow as a character without going batshit or becoming a recluse or some other thing. He might not place very highly on my "favorite FF characters" or anything, but he was very refreshing and a high point of the game, I think.

And BIG kudos for not making him fall in undying love for Serah. You were welcome to have her flirt with him if you wanted, which is cool, but you could also have her stay true to Snow (or not express a huge interest in either) and they still act as completely normal friends. They hadn't shown that kind of restraint with character romance since VII.
 

Lex

Administrator
^I completely agree, Noel was likeable in almost every way, right down to the English VA (Simba's son in law FFS!!!). One of the things they did right in XIII-2 was the characterisation of Serah and Noel. The story ended up being a bit bleh but they certainly succeeded with those two.

And having likeable characters makes all the difference when you're trying to make your way through the game in my honest opinion. Honestly, I think that's another reason people found it so difficult to get through XIII. It's another aspect that was just completely flipped going from the original to the sequel - in XIII you had characters that were annoying/ totally flawed to start with that became likeable later due to some of the best character development the series has ever seen. In the sequel they were likeable from the start but didn't develop much at all.

I'm not sure which I prefer.
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
And having likeable characters makes all the difference when you're trying to make your way through the game in my honest opinion. Honestly, I think that's another reason people found it so difficult to get through XIII. It's another aspect that was just completely flipped going from the original to the sequel - in XIII you had characters that were annoying/ totally flawed to start with that became likeable later due to some of the best character development the series has ever seen. In the sequel they were likeable from the start but didn't develop much at all.

I'm not sure which I prefer.

I prefer the former. In XIII, I'd started with being annoyed with everyone (except Sazh), including my now favorite Hope. I disliked Vanille because she grated on me the wrong way with the way she acted and the way she talked; Lightning because she seemed like such a generic cold, badass hero, just genderflipped; Hope because I thought he was such a whiner (thinking about it now, I find it realistic and cute); and Snow because he wouldn't shut up about Serah, didn't care about anything else, and was such an attention whore. Probably the only character I liked from the beginning besides Sazh was Fang.

When the characters started developing and I'm thrown right in the middle of it all, it was... I don't know. I'll just say it was really well done. The fact that I actually changed my mind about all of them, and came to really like them, gave the ending a bigger impact than most endings I've come across. I actually cried, seeing them come so far. I still get teary-eyed remembering the ending. I wanted to be there to hug all of them. It was great writing.

By contrast, we have likeable characters in Serah and Noel from the beginning, but no development whatsoever. Don't kill me but... when the ending happened, it was just... meh. I didn't get any feels besides the obvious WTF when things went to fudge. I liked both Serah and Noel, and Noel's story made me teary-eyed, but when my journey with them ended, I wasn't sad at all. To me, they were basically just there for me to play the game with. Just likeable player avatars with a backstory, a girl for the female players, a boy for the male players.

I'm not sure if I can call it justified, but it does make sense because XIII-2's story wasn't really its best point. It lacked in almost everything XIII had in terms of storytelling and character development. I guess maybe a lot of people complained about the previous game's way of storytelling, so they switched it up in XIII-2. To me, it just made it seem like they lazed about it.

Don't get me wrong though, I love the game. It has its flaws, but that doesn't make playing it less enjoyable. I just wish it made me as emotionally attached (to the main characters) as XIII.

On a different note: I think that people who disliked the "linearity" of FFXIII completely missed the point of it. I believe was designed that way to make us feel what the characters were feeling--caged in, trapped fugitives. I can't justify the encounters though, but it worked for me anyway. :awesome:

lol i should shutup :monster:
 
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