Final Fantasy XIII-2 (Spoiler Thread)

[Lex]

I agree with some of your points, but I can't defend the extreme linearity of the game or the fact that it takes around 20 hours to actually have to strategise to beat things other than mashing X. It takes far too long to actually give you even a tiny measure of control, and by then it gets really repetitive and boring. It does vastly improve as the game goes on though.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The assessment the two of you made of XIII vs. XIII-2 is exactly what I think as well.

Some of the best character development the FF series has had was in FFXIII. I, too, wanted to hug each and every one of them at the ending after the journey we had shared. And I also experienced their bittersweet victory with Vanille and Fang left in that pillar. The gameplay really just didn't do anything for me, though.

Then, FFXIII-2 was the reverse -- some of the best gameplay the series has had, with a story that really did next to nothing for me. If not for Noel (and Hope to a lesser degree), I would outright hate its narrative.

Both are good games, but for very different reasons, and I like them both. But story and characterization ultimately trumps everything else for me, I think. I trudged through the drudgery of FFIX's awful, sluggish, tugboat gameplay to experience scenes like "You're Not Alone" again.

It's the reason I call XIII a good game that could have been great, while I will only say that XIII-2 is a decent game that had a long way to go to be good.

 

[Lex]

I need to derail this to say ^ inorite!? About FFIX. It had the smoothest exploration of the PS era but that battle system made me want to shoot myself sometimes. It can take about 15 seconds for the battle screen to even appear after the music has started and then you can be waiting for minutes for a command issued to actually be shown on screen. Grrrr, that was frustrating at times.

But yeah, the story more than makes up for it. Which is something that XIII-2 fails in slightly.

 

[I Am Not Me]

I agree with some of your points, but I can't defend the extreme linearity of the game or the fact that it takes around 20 hours to actually have to strategise to beat things other than mashing X. It takes far too long to actually give you even a tiny measure of control, and by then it gets really repetitive and boring. It does vastly improve as the game goes on though.

I was more referring to the "not being able to fully explore" linearity of the game, rather than the battle system. The battle system took a while to really become awesome, but I enjoyed how it slowly broke me into it. Maybe I enjoyed it longer than I should have because of the battle music.

Or I could just be one of the few who really found the gameplay refreshing. It didn't feel like it was playing itself, rather it was just letting me focus more on learning the Paradigms and making a strategy with them.

My only gripe is how it just didn't unlock the full Crystarium before the Final Boss. It was... the FINAL BOSS. There should at least be a feeling of finality when you end it. Or they could've given us an extra stage of Crystarium after beating the final boss to make things feel more like "endgame".

Both are good games, but for very different reasons, and I like them both. But story and characterization ultimately trumps everything else for me, I think. I trudged through the drudgery of FFIX's awful, sluggish, tugboat gameplay to experience scenes like "You're Not Alone" again.

I need to derail this to say ^ inorite!? About FFIX. It had the smoothest exploration of the PS era but that battle system made me want to shoot myself sometimes. It can take about 15 seconds for the battle screen to even appear after the music has started and then you can be waiting for minutes for a command issued to actually be shown on screen. Grrrr, that was frustrating at times.

But yeah, the story more than makes up for it. Which is something that XIII-2 fails in slightly.

D:

But FFIX had awesome gameplaaaaaaaaaay. I really loved it. I'm not sure about the slowness, but I remember you have the option to significantly shorten eidolon summoning. FFIX was one of my overall favorites. It never felt sluggish to me, just really simple. Didn't stop it from being fun though. To me, it was like... great story, great gameplay. Great game.

But I guess, to each his own.

FFXIII-2 had the best for me though. Really enjoying it. I'll probably just stay and race my Chocobos when I achieve 100% completion. Because that is just awesome.

 

[Arianna]

Regarding Alryssa: I like her. I feel bad though, that she's a paradox, and I understand how she does what she does because of her wishing to live, but knowledge of the truth. She was a bit more clingy than I liked; though, again, I wonder if that's because of her issue with being a paradox. I know when I feel very insecure, I get very clingy.

 

[Arianna]

Then, FFXIII-2 was the reverse -- some of the best gameplay the series has had, with a story that really did next to nothing for me. If not for Noel (and Hope to a lesser degree), I would outright hate its narrative.

Both are good games, but for very different reasons, and I like them both. But story and characterization ultimately trumps everything else for me, I think. I trudged through the drudgery of FFIX's awful, sluggish, tugboat gameplay to experience scenes like "You're Not Alone" again.

Agreed.

I really don't feel a desire to play XIII-2 again.

XIII on the other hand, I'm playing again. And I'm enduring hours of grinding to gain the items necessary to buy items and upgrade weapons and accessories.

The play in XIII-2 was definitely better, but I too wish a story, a reason as to why I'm doing all this.

As said, story trumps everything.

 

[Mwynn]

^With that said though, I find it really hard to get back to playing XIII again when I'm so used to XIII-2's improved battle system.

 

[Splintered]

The only time I've ever seen people hate Noel is when they say he is a safe character (and some pairing war stupid shit). To be honest, I agree completely, but it doesn't mean I dislike him. Hell I consider Zack one of the safest characters in FF and it works for him.

XIII you weren't suppose to really like the cast right off the bat, I know I didn't. Even Snow who changes the least, the first thing Vanille says about him is that he seems like he's all talk. Everyone is the worst of their tropes and it's kind of the point. And then by the end they are the best of themselves and it really was a hell of a journey.

But you can do that when you have a cast of 6 (or 9 like other FFs) simply because you have much more characters. You can have someone creepily over perky, or a brat, or an asshole because chances are you are going to like at least one character. And even if you don't, at least one character is going through development and you get to see how all the different characters rebound off each other.

In games like XIII-2 (or Zack in CC), you only get one or two characters you better be damn sure they are likable pretty early on. There's so little else to help buffer the annoying out, and imo the plot isn't so great in either XIII-2 or CC can distract from characters you hate.

The saddest part about the loss is the lack of character development, Serah and Noel is pretty much the same in the beginning and the end of XIII-2. They get sad sometimes but that was less of character development than exploration, and it lasts for about a level.

But then again, the game is kind of non linear, you get all kinds of strange side stories that you can go to whenever you want to. And so Serah and Noel react the exact same way no matter when in the main plot that happens and it makes sense.

You can't do it in XIII, because characters like Lightning and Hope are completely different- and Snow, Vanille, and Sazh have gotten their kind of crippling issues out of the way. Imagine Hope meeting his dad any other time, before he got most of his rage and communications issues out, or after his eidolin when he gets his confidence and his tendency to make speeches. It wouldn't make sense.

So what was I saying? Oh yeah, Noel and Serah are fairly easy and safe characters and it's better for the story of XIII-2. It works for them.

XIII on the other hand, I'm playing again. And I'm enduring hours of grinding to gain the items necessary to buy items and upgrade weapons and accessories.

I like XIII better for the story and characters but XIII-2 is so much more fun to play. And I've played both twice. XIII to get a better grasp on the story (so much easier when you figure out what's going on) and XIII-2 mostly to experiment gameplay wise- I played purposefully underleveled, with different monsters and I switched up my leveling experience to make a mage out of Noel and an attacker out of Serah.

 

[Lex]

I was just talking about this with someone else (regarding battle systems, because lol about 5 posts between this one and the one it's in response to). There are aspects of XIII I prefer but XIII-2 wins for... I want to say smoothness? The only thing I find difficult to adjust to in XIII-2 is no haste. Going from an endgame XIII to an endgame XIII-2 is hardtaimu.

Also, Yop is now playing through XIII-2 as we speak. Why has this not been menshun bai the Gr8 Auld Yin I do not know.

 

[Kuja9001]

I might be grabbing the 13-2 novels soon.

 

[ForceStealer]

Character exploration is just as valid as character development.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I agree with that, though some characters would benefit from both. I think Noel was fine as he is. Serah, I liked more in the first XIII. She was more interesting before we were compelled to ask "That's it?"

 

[Lex]

Yeah her personality in XIII-2 consisted of shallow likeability and that's about it. It was disappointing in a lot of respects that she didn't do the following:

• Have a massive rage at Snow
• Have an anger fit about something
• ...

In fact, let me boil it down to - she didn't lose her temper when she should have. It would be easy to look at that like she didn't have that kind of temperament but there was something about the way she was portrayed that lacked any kind of oomph, which annoyed me at times. Where's the anger?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

As much as she had been forced to be a pawn/spectator/powerless fiancee (and younger sister) waiting around for the people she loves most to come back to her, she should have been raging about everything from cold soup to a cloudy sky on a day she wanted some sunshine.

One might say that her patience and placid demeanor are what we're supposed to see in that (i.e. "what a trooper"), but it wasn't believable and it didn't make her relatable. It, along with other things, made her a Mary Sue.

Where was the Serah from XIII who tried breaking up with Snow to spare his feelings when she became a l'Cie? That Serah had a breakdown. That Serah was full of passion.

For that matter, XIII's cast in general was passionate. They got upset about stuff they had a right to be upset about. Heck, they got downright irrational at times, but you could see why. They were believable and relatable.

There isn't one of them who didn't fall to pieces over something and rage at someone, whether it be themselves, the right person or the wrong person. Even Yaag Rosch was more engaging on a psychological level since he personally bore no ill will toward the party and knowingly did heartbreaking things to serve what he believed to be a greater good up to the point of using his final breaths for more noble purposes.

I guess Serah in XIII-2 is more interesting than Jihl, but who isn't?

 

[Fangu]

^ Yeah, the passionate sides of her personality is definitely toned down in XIII-2. It was on my third playthrough () I started noticing subtle things about her. Like how determined she really is about saving the world even though she knows it will cost her her life. She is, in a lot of ways, honoring Lightning, which I ofc like But it's not an 'omg I have to be better than my sister' thing, I truly believe her heart when she decides to be the hero.

Speaking of playthrough, since I'm procrastinating away studying for my finals like mad, and all my playthroughs are on my bf's PS3 account, I've started an XIII-2 speedrun. Or, at least I'm gonna skip the cutscenes and try to fight each enemy only once (Augusta Tower is ofc gonna ruin that for me), and go for fragments for CP - trying to avoid running back and forth like I did in my first run. I'm also gonna try leveling the crystarium a bit different - going straight for SEN for all the small nodes.

It took me 35 mins to finish Valhalla and New Bodhum, which is a bit longer than I expected, but there is a lot of cutscenes and loading screens, so. I HAD to stop at the little garden of course, to hear Noel marvel about the vegetables - always makes me laugh

 

[Fangu]

I didn't realize until now that the Ghouls in Academia 400 AF are throwing Remedies at themselves... poor things

 

[Lex]

Nice! How did you notice that?

 

[AvecAloes]

They are? I never noticed that.

//is suddenly depressed

 

[Lex]

I didn't either, that's why I'm curious. I love little things like this, always makes the game feel that much deeper.

 

[Fangu]

Go to 9:50, the red boxes says "Remedy".

I also noticed that the place you get the Fragment Skills is the exact same set as a scene in XIII:

 

[Lex]

I was going to say something about laziness and reusing assets, but it actually fits with the nature of serendipity so that's another awesome find

 

[Arianna]

I took some screenshots and was going to post something about why the Cocoon fal'Cie mark was on the wall near the ceiling, as well as an old fashioned stylized version of Cocoon was on the floor in the Mystic's room in Serendipity.

Cool that someone else saw the same thing!

 

[Fangu]

^ I had no idea that was Cocoon! Awesome!

I'm curious what the original room was meant to be. A worshipping chamber playing soothing jazz?

 

[Arianna]

^ I had no idea that was Cocoon! Awesome!

I'm curious what the original room was meant to be. A worshipping chamber playing soothing jazz?

I'll still post the pictures, just to be an attention whore. *kidding*

But seriously...

Isn't this the 'sanctuary' of the fal'Cie Siren of Coccon? Well, when featured in XIII.

Makes me wonder if Serendipity has anything to do with Lindzei... ?!?

 

[Kuja9001]

Copied/Pasted from user "Leaferian" from the NA SE Forum

"For one, the Japanese seem to diferentiate the human measurement of time (eternity, history, causality) from the actual, static principle of experienced time. Second, even if 'time' as it previously existed disappeared, the world hasn't stopped moving. This isn't the effect of time, but rather just an occurence of gravity. The sun doesn't stop moving, and the sun doesn't technically mark time. People mark time and use the sun as one of their markers. It's like saying that since time no longer exists, that person shouldn't be able to walk down the street. If you want to dig into temporal mechanics and the way physics work, that's true. Although the person COULD walk down the street, the universe would experience all of the sensations and moments at the same time or in chaotic order. However, it's not possible (or plausible) to make a game like that. This is an element which, if you take it with as much real-world science as possible, cannot be accepted without suspension of disbelief.


To put it as simply as possible, the end of time in XIII-2/LR is more about the end of causality and the end of aging than the end of actual time. Cauaslity is time's logic, the rubber band that snaps it back into place when someone goes aruond trying to stretch it out and tie into the shape of a poodle. Causality is what caused Hope and his research team to forget their meeting with Noel and Serah once the two of them had repaired the rift in Oerba, and it's what caused the Proto-fal'Cie Adam to vanish once Hope saw Serah's message. It's also the effect that would have (and apparently did) written Alyssa out of history if Serah and Noel had completely untangled the future, pulling her back to her death during the Purge. Remember also that Caius specified that "The time measured by Etro shall end". Time existed BEFORE Etro did, and the time Etro 'measures' is the human lifespan. Humans were born from her, and she goes to greet them in the afterlife and guide them on their way to rest. In this case, 'time' may actually refer specifically to the life and death cycles of humanity."

Your thoughts?