Final Fantasy XIII-2 (Spoiler Thread)

[Zee]

I'm not 'hating on' XIII-2, but XIII had greater replay value.

waht
really

i love xiii but jesus getting through the first half of that game again is a big fat chore due to the linearity

at least when i replay xiii-2 i can dick around with the livetriggers and run around exploring and junk

anything that breaks up what you "have" to do in a video game will always give the game a better replay value imo

I just wish that SE would come out and say if this world is truly dead and gone or what.

restoring the world will probably be the focus of the last game (there's enough questions to cover with this game anyway)

i'm just hoping we get a lot of chaos themed levels

cool shit!!

 

[Purple]

So will there be a XIII-3 or what? Would rather have a full game then shell out some cash for short DLCs.

Oh, and I liked the ending. I like endings that aren't all sunshines and butterflies. Seems like a trend with video games these days too

 

[Tifabelle]

I wouldn't mind a "not happy" ending if they tied up the loose ends and didn't end with "to be continued". :/ I think that's why people weren't happy with it. All it did was leave a lot of questions.

 

[Zee]

They registered the site (and trademark, right?) for XIII-3 so there's almost certainly a third game coming, I just have no idea why they are being so coy about it. A sort of "end of season" type cliffhanger would be less irritating for people if they knew for sure more was coming.

 

[AvecAloes]

So will there be a XIII-3 or what? Would rather have a full game then shell out some cash for short DLCs.

Oh, and I liked the ending. I like endings that aren't all sunshines and butterfliessugar and rainbows. Seems like a trend with video games these days too

Fixxed

But really. I didn't mind the ending. I kind of expected a cliffhanger (although I had no idea how/what story wise, so that was a surprise).

Also also I totally agree with Zee - XIII-2 has more replay value. Period. I wanted to play XIII again, and eventually (like, a year and a half later) started a second play through, but I just finished XIII-2 what, two weeks ago? and I'd be replaying it RIGHTNOW if it weren't for all this stupid schoolwork.

 

[Purple]

I have a question regarding Noel's dream world. Why was it so sad? I mean wasn't it supposed to be their hearts desire? Serah saw Snow and Lightning in hers but for Noel, it seemed like the same thing that happened in the past happened again.

It didn't help either that Serah said "this is your dream world Noel, you'll be happy here forever" WTH? There was nothing happy about that dream sequence at all

That part, though the atmosphere was really sad and effective, was full of contradictions

 

[Fangu]

Well maybe it was because that was all the knew. Being with Caius and Yeul, and being optimistic about finding other tribes - he still believed their world could be saved.

But really I have no idea.

 

[Splintered]

My guess is that Serah being in the world forced him to face reality. It was decently happy until Serah started trying to interact with the world, then characters were disappearing and stuff.

... But yeah I was like, man Noel's really bad at this happy thing, isn't he? when I first played it

EDIT: That said, how did defeating dream Caius able him to become the next guardian in the paradox ending?. That made no godamn sense.

 

[Purple]

Maybe the real Caius has gone Inception on him. IDK, that too. That chapter was really peculiar. It felt more like a flashback than a dream sequence. However, it was easily the best chapter for me. I love the atmosphere and the music. You could really feel Noel's isolation and how his life must've sucked and all, being the last human left and what not. I had a really heavy heart going through that level.

Oh, and back to the ending. I like how the music was very optimistic yet the scene was very tragic. When Serah thanked Noel, did she know she was about to die at that point? Did she lie about not feeling anything. Her thank you felt like a final thank you when she said it, being apprehensive first and all.

 

[Alex Strife]

I actually loved that part of the game. Noel's story. For some reason, I liked the guy fine enough but didn't feel his story close enough. Didn't feel for him. And it all changed with that part. We get to see about his story with Caius and Yeul, and it's well done. Even the "cinematic" light makes it feel much more like "the world is ending". Love it.

 

[Mwynn]

I personally thought they did a great job on keeping our hopes up during the last scenes, blinding us from Serah's fate despite the fact that we know it will surely happen.

 

[Arianna]

Serah's private world didn't seem to be a true dream, while Noel's did. Noel was dreaming about his life up to the point where he was granted Etro's power (honestly, I don't think I'd really call Etro's interference and/or bestowing of favor much of a blessing). He didn't notice Serah until later in the sequence. I could be wrong, but to me, Serah's world seemed to be more of a - for lack of better words - decorated cage or maybe even a hallucination or a delusion.

 

[Alex Strife]

I always thought their dreams came from personalities.

Noel seems, TO ME, more like the pessimistic type, while Serah's clearly optimistic.

So Serah saw her wished future, in her dream, while Noel saw his real past.

 

[Mwynn]

That said, how did defeating dream Caius able him to become the next guardian in the paradox ending?. That made no godamn sense.

It's a paradox ending. It's not supposed to make sense.

Anyways, here is the page that I was talking about in the other XIII-2 thread.

 

[Aqua]

EDIT: That said, how did defeating dream Caius able him to become the next guardian in the paradox ending?. That made no godamn sense.

Um, iirc they kept mentioning that for Noel to become the next "one true Guardian" he would have to defeat Caius and accept the Heart of Chaos. In that fight I guess you're supposed to accept that Noel actually defeats Caius and for whatever reason accepted his Heart of Chaos and became immortal.

Except it makes absolutely no sense why that would ever happen since Noel was so adamant about never, ever killing anyone so I can't believe he'd ever actually kill Caius. By far Noel's paradox ending had to be the strangest.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

To be perfectly honest, I still don't get the parameters of Caius's immortality --

-He can't die unless you destroy the Heart of Chaos within him
-He can't do this himself
-He ends up doing it himself anyway; Noel is just holding the other end of the weapon, but applies no force of his own, and has no desire to kill him
-An ordinary sword was sufficient to pierce the Heart of Chaos, but burying Caius under rubble or blasting him to hell does nothing
-The Heart of Chaos and role of Guardian can only be passed from Caius to another if they kill him -- but they can't kill him unless they destroy the Heart of Chaos, in which case there's nothing to pass on anyway; oh, and reality falls apart too
-In the end, even destroying the Heart of Chaos doesn't keep him dead (but this may have been because he died in Valhalla)

Just wtf all over the place. This is the biggest conundrum with the story, even if we can explain a couple of things related to Etro's interference in the normal world leading to the paradoxes.

And, unfortunately, this particular conundrum breaks the fiction like an egg shell, because its main premise rests on the Heart of Chaos. Plot makes no sense.

 

[Zee]

I can answer at least some of these!

-He can't die unless you destroy the Heart of Chaos within him

But he can die! Just not permanently. That bahamut technique he does kills the user, he just gets "reborn" instantly.

-The Heart of Chaos and role of Guardian can only be passed from Caius to another if they kill him -- but they can't kill him unless they destroy the Heart of Chaos, in which case there's nothing to pass on anyway

I thought the way Noel explained it was that you don't really destroy the heart, you consume it and kill the user. Caius did this to his predecessor, and Noel was able to do this to Caius too.

-An ordinary sword was sufficient to pierce the Heart of Chaos, but burying Caius under rubble or blasting him to hell does nothing

Well, 1) only the next guardian in line could pierce the heart and 2) why would knocking him around pierce the heart?

In the end, even destroying the Heart of Chaos doesn't keep him dead (but this may have been because he died in Valhalla)

Yeah, he died/released Valhalla, a place with no time where the dead are supposed to wander. So he's not really dead but he's not exactly alive either, imo.

He ends up doing it himself anyway; Noel is just holding the other end of the weapon, but applies no force of his own, and has no desire to kill him

My confusion about this mostly stems from the fact that the Paddra seers tell Noel he has to be ready to kill Caius, and answering yes is the only way to get all the fragments.

However, maybe that's exactly why shit got fucked up. If Noel had it in his heart to kill him, being the next guardian that conviction would have "blessed" him with the heart. If it's all related to the will of the potential guardian when they pierce the heart, like they imply, maybe Noel's hesitation to kill anyone was exactly why Caius believed he could destroy the heart and have no one inherit it.

babble babble

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I can answer at least some of these!



But he can die! Just not permanently. That bahamut technique he does kills the user, he just gets "reborn" instantly.

Well, that's what I mean when I say he can't die (i.e. permanently).

thought the way Noel explained it was that you don't really destroy the heart, you consume it and kill the user. Caius did this to his predecessor, and Noel was able to do this to Caius too.

I'd swear I remember reading that Caius was the first to have the heart; something about Etro taking pity on him when he first used the Bahamut technique, making him the first immortal Guardian. Did I dream that?

ell, 1) only the next guardian in line could pierce the heart and 2) why would knocking him around pierce the heart?

But Noel doesn't stab him. And I'm saying if a sword could destroy the heart, crushing his body or disintegrating it should as well.

Yeah, he died/released Valhalla, a place with no time where the dead are supposed to wander. So he's not really dead but he's not exactly alive either, imo.

Okay, good enough.

My confusion about this mostly stems from the fact that the Paddra seers tell Noel he has to be ready to kill Caius, and answering yes is the only way to get all the fragments.

However, maybe that's exactly why shit got fucked up. If Noel had it in his heart to kill him, being the next guardian that conviction would have "blessed" him with the heart. If it's all related to the will of the potential guardian when they pierce the heart, like they imply, maybe Noel's hesitation to kill anyone was exactly why Caius believed he could destroy the heart and have no one inherit it.

babble babble

So if Noel had been more willing to do it, you think stabbing the heart would have transferred it to Noel rather than destroy it altogether?

 

[Zee]

I'd swear I remember reading that Caius was the first to have the heart; something about Etro taking pity on him when he first used the Bahamut technique, making him the first immortal Guardian. Did I dream that?

The only thing I remember was Etro being moved by his devotion to Yeul and granting him great power. But you might be right, I have to double check.

And I'm saying if a sword could destroy the heart, crushing his body or disintegrating it should as well.

Well, if the curse can only be passed guardian to guardian, there's prolly a reason.

imo since this ritual seems to be dependent on the heart/will of the potential guardian, then it's probably true that the heart/will of the current guardian counts too -- they both agree to the combat accepting that one is going to die and the other is going to be cursed.

that's just my personal theory though

connect with caius, noel

connect

with his heart

So if Noel had been more willing to do it, you think stabbing the heart would have transferred it to Noel rather than destroy it altogether?

I think so. I think the reason for the paradox ending was to show it was possible -- Noel did have it in him, he just chose not to.

 

[Purple]

Something just crossed my mind. Didn't Noel say he was the last child to be born? Then how does Yeul fit into all this? Yeul died when she was just 15 and Noel was 18 at the time. So wouldn't, technically, Yeul be the last child to be born?

 

[Aqua]

That's a good point. Methinks SE made a mistake there unless Yeul is able to magically appear at will.

 

[Lex]

Maybe Yeul doesn't count since she's the seeress or something. I'm also curious how the customs of the people in the Paddraen archaeopolis managed to pass their customs down until the "end of days" considering you're there in both 13 and 13-2 multiple times and it's completely abandoned/falling apart.

Although I think I recall a codex entry saying they became nomadic but I can't be sure. It's been a while since I played.

 

[Mwynn]

Something just crossed my mind. Didn't Noel say he was the last child to be born? Then how does Yeul fit into all this? Yeul died when she was just 15 and Noel was 18 at the time. So wouldn't, technically, Yeul be the last child to be born?

Writing mistake, most definitely.

Maybe Yeul doesn't count since she's the seeress or something. I'm also curious how the customs of the people in the Paddraen archaeopolis managed to pass their customs down until the "end of days" considering you're there in both 13 and 13-2 multiple times and it's completely abandoned/falling apart.

Although I think I recall a codex entry saying they became nomadic but I can't be sure. It's been a while since I played.

We can assume that the people have become nomadic, as you say, since Gran Pulse's civilization fell apart after the war and people left and went to different places.

 

[Splintered]

I'd swear I remember reading that Caius was the first to have the heart; something about Etro taking pity on him when he first used the Bahamut technique, making him the first immortal Guardian. Did I dream that?

You didn't. I read both that he was the first and that he killed his previous guardian.

I'm just going to wager a guess and say that the guardian ritual was created long before him, but the heart of etros didn't come into play until long after. After all, the original power of the guardian had nothing to do with the heart of etros, they were just made into a l'cie.

He ends up doing it himself anyway; Noel is just holding the other end of the weapon, but applies no force of his own, and has no desire to kill him

This is the only serious issue I have with the whole situation. Noel hesitated in killing him, by all rights the heart of etros should have been passed to him rather than have her heart obliterated.

He didn't have it in him to really kill Caius much less anyone. Noel hates anyone dying because of what happened to him. Although I remember when Noel said, "No one deserves to die" and I automatically said, "nah, some people deserve to die twice. Not even the first game agrees with you."

I'm pretty sure Lightning slaughtered half of psicom when the l'cie stormed eden. Although that made me sit back and think, you know, there really are no human enemies in this game. It's one of the things that makes this game so different in the last, in the original no one stood with you and in this one, everyone is absolutely okay with Noel and Serah. The people are like "Oh you traveled from hundreds years into the past? That's cool, want a fetch quest?"

 

[Aqua]

I think the person taking down Caius has to accept the Heart of Etro before it can be passed on...I might be confusing things though. But what exactly is considered "accepting" the Heart of Etro? In the paradox ending, Noel receives the heart and becomes immortal. What was the difference? There was no line before the paradox scope activated that gave the indication that Noel's mind had changed causing the fight to become killer.

As for the Paddra tribe, I do believe it is stated or at least outright hinted at, that the Paddra tribe became nomadic once their city fell. I think a fragment may have even mentioned her going into hiding to prevent further problems.

One thing I do wonder is if the Paddra tribe eventually returned settled down. The relic that Yeul passes away at cannot have been easy to move, especially for a tribe that is constantly dwindling. This might indicate that they had settled down after a time (mostly likely after the fall of Cocoon) and tried to rebuild their settlement. The maps have changed drastically but it is also possible they returned to the approximate location of their ancestors home as well.