Final Fantasy XIII-2

[Zee]

wait are people calling serah a mary sue because shes pretty and has a mysterious power


isnt that the staple for just about all final fantasy characters

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

She's perfect in looks, she's perfect in demeanor, she has the sight that the Yuel's have, and everyone seems to love her (minus whatever the case is with Aryssa, as I've not followed XIII-2's spoilers that much).

idk i think serah's huge flaw is finding snow attractive to date, just from ff13

....thats a flaw right....

okay well if you don't count that as a flaw, from what little of ff13 i saw, a huge flaw she seemed to have was that she genuinely believed in snow's child-like fantasy of him being a hero. she seemed to believe he could save her, not to the point that she threw a fit afterwards when he didnt save her immediately, but she is jesus christ incredibly naive

Honestly, part of my gripe is that she's beautiful to boot. Seriously, I doubt many - even here in this thread - would love her so much if she wasn't so physically perfect. That's general psychology though.

dude its final fantasy. tell me one character in 13 who wasn't ridiculously pretty. sazh is attractive, so is vanille, lightning, fang, hope to an extent, fuck, even snow is generally pretty attractive.

EVERYONE IS ATTRACTIVE I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY SERAH IS A TERRIBLE PERSON FOR BEING ATTRACTIVE?

 

[Celes Chere]

Seriously, I doubt many - even here in this thread - would love her so much if she wasn't so physically perfect.

I didn't even see this... ouch.
I'd like to think we aren't that shallow.

 

[Fangu]

I just have to add that I didn't mean to call anyone in here a 14 year old That came out wrong. I guess what I was trying to say is that an older person (who's say, a mother) will have interests in different parts of a story than a younger person who's more interested in romance and, say, relationships between siblings.

Even if FF storylines aren't great classical work, they are still pretty good stories. There are aspects of the stories I probably wouldn't care about had I played the game at an earlier age. Like, I wouldn't had given a shit about Cid and the story about his rocket in VII, or the story of Barret and Dyne and the mines. Maybe that's why I'm not as interested in Serah as I was in Lightning - It's more difficult to relate to her bubblyness now that I'm all tainted by the Darth Vaders in life I just like dark stories where people are betrayed and left alone and constantly poked in the eye with forks. It's not a happy place people, never grow old

 

[Celesta]

idk i think serah's huge flaw is finding snow attractive to date, just from ff13

....thats a flaw right....




dude its final fantasy. tell me one character in 13 who wasn't ridiculously pretty. sazh is attractive, so is vanille, lightning, fang, hope to an extent, fuck, even snow is generally pretty attractive.

EVERYONE IS ATTRACTIVE I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY SERAH IS A TERRIBLE PERSON FOR BEING ATTRACTIVE?

Well Snow may be a little obnoxious as I believe was intended. But the truth is he's a good-natured (hot albeit rough around the edges) guy and he really loves Serah; many women would be lucky to have a man as devoted to them as Snow is to Serah. 
And yes, all Final Fantasy characters are ridiculously attractive; this is like a key hallmark of the series.



I find this discussion funny because I wonder how many male fans dislike characters in part because they find them too nice and attractive. 
I think females in general tend to be put off by girls who are a combination, of smart, pretty and well loved by those around them; it reminds me of good old fashioned cattiness.



Between Lightning and Serah however, Lightning seems more like the type women would hate on; she doesn't come across as a girl's girl and Serah does.
Serah is like the girl who everyone wants to be friends with or liked by in high school or college or life in general. 
Lightning seems like the type who would be misunderstood as too beautiful and aloof.

Would I like Serah is she wasn't as pretty? I think so, I mean in real life I don't decide whether or not I like a person based on how attractive they are. And anyway, this is a matter of personal opinion but I don't think she is the prettiest female character in FFXIII-universe anyway; Lightning, Fang, Vanille, and Yuel are prettier. Serah is more of a combination of pretty and very cute than drop dead gorgeous.
And I really didn't like Serah that much until finding out how hard working, strong willed, smart and sincere in caring for others as she was.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Isn't Mary- Sue a term for a character that seems " Perfect " ? Serah goes through alot of troubles, and it seems like she's going to go through more in the sequel. She was worried that she was going to become a monster... that's not wonderful.

She's nice, cute, friendly and girly but there's nothing wrong with that. Serah haters complained that she was too much of a damsel in the original, she picks up a weapon and tries to fight and defend herself and now she's too " perfect " ??

Oh give me a fucking break. Picking up a weapon and having a two-bit boohoo story does not a developed character make. That is precisely what a Mary-Sue is.

Typically, this refers to a character accused of being overly idealized or having other traits traditionally associated with fan fiction "Mary Sues", such as being "special" by having a gratuitously tragic past, unrealistic skills or attractiveness, or a seeming inability for the character to do wrong

I think Serah fits ALL of the above and then some. Everyone is ready to lay down their life for her in this game and for no fucking reason. Everyone finds her endearing, and any "flaws" she may have are too made to be endearing and not grating.

In the first fucking minutes of the game her damsel status is further reinforced at least 3 times that I can count right off the top of my head. I mean fucking Noel is tasked with protecting her because Lightning no longer can. We progress, meet Snow, and STILL Noel and Snow have a cock fight over who gets to protect her. Again.

Does Serah show any 'bad' personality traits at all? I haven't watched the streams so I only have the trailers and XIII for reference, and she does seem a little... flat. Did she ever lash out on her sister? Be jealous? Racist? Angry? Whiney? Depressed? I have this feeling that no. That doesn't mean I don't like her, it just makes her a little... uninteresting.

THIS SO FUCKING MUCH.
You're entirely correct, of course. Serah never even gets angry. At anyone. Snow's being an idiot and she doesn't even call him on anything, not even when his behavior brings monsters on their heads. She's always confused, which gets tired really fast because going "huh?" like a fucking fish is all she does. Noel is constantly fucking saving her. Constantly. I can't stress this enough. He's pulling her out of the way of falling blades and chocobo stampedes all the fucking time.

Not only that, she's got more "special" flowing through her this time.

Spoiler

Her and Yuel "are the same".

Ugh. I can't. Her special powers never end.

She's so boring :\

 

[OneWingedDemon]

It's not about special powers. It's about several traits and qualities all coming together to create an uninteresting walking cliche.

Sephiroth is a fucking freak of nature, he's insane, a mass murderer everyone hates. He hates humanity, has a vendetta against Cloud because Cloud shames him, etc.,etc. How the fuck is he a Gary-Stu of any sort? Don't confuse canon Sephiroth with fanon Sephiroth, they are completely different. The guy is not in need of a hug.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

In the first fucking minutes of the game her damsel status is further reinforced at least 3 times that I can count right off the top of my head. I mean fucking Noel is tasked with protecting her because Lightning no longer can. We progress, meet Snow, and STILL Noel and Snow have a cock fight over who gets to protect her. Again.

so people fighting over who gets to protect a person=the character is a mary sue! ?

so then renji and ichigo having a physical fight=rukia is a mary sue?

all of orihime's friends wanting to save her=orihime is a mary sue?

three dudes wanting to help and protect emma in victorian romance emma=emma is a mary sue?

how is serah's backstory any more tragic than say, hope's or vanille's?

okay, if you hate serah, go ahead and be like 'fuck i hate serah i can't like her in the least' but don't try to justify it by calling her a mary sue

Sephiroth is a fucking freak of nature, he's insane, a mass murderer everyone hates. He hates humanity, has a vendetta against Cloud because Cloud shames him, etc.,etc. How the fuck is he a Gary-Stu of any sort?

he was basically an overpowered gary stu in that he was shown as being the best, super perfect at what he did, etc.

he's the sort of stu people could call an 'anti-stu gary stu' in that he hates and wants to kill everyone in the original ff but the only thing from preventing this full-monty is him being very pretty as opposed to gratuitously ugly

 

[Catherine]

Serah never even gets angry. At anyone.

Actually she does, but I won't get into details because it might be a minor spoiler.

Regarding the rest of your arguments... I just won't even.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

okay, if you hate serah, go ahead and be like 'fuck i hate serah i can't like her in the least' but don't try to justify it by calling her a mary sue

Don't try to justify it? There's a reason I dislike her and that's it. Should I not be giving reasons for my opinionz?

You want to like her, go ahead. I don't give a shit, but don't try to justify it by trying to paint her into a complex and interesting character. She's none of that.

She's pretty. That's about it.

 

[Arianna]

I'm just being honest with myself when I say that Serah is very beautiful, but to the point that I feel uncomfortable.

I do not really hate Serah. I never said that. I do feel that she's not as great a character as others feel she is, and the reason is because she just seems too much. This does not mean that I hate her.

To illustrate my point again: she's beautiful, she has a beautiful heart, she has a demeanor that fits the situation (at least near) perfectly (nearly) all the time, since Cocoon fell she can naturally (if that's what it is) use magic as well she has visions of the future, she can fight using a sword and a bow and arrow (so short and long range), she is a teacher... I do not hold these admirable things against her. What I am saying is that she's too much. Heck, even in one translation I read,

Spoiler

Caius recites a passage that calls her 'Miracle Child'

.

I'm sorry, I just find it hard to relate to someone like this.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Don't try to justify it? There's a reason I dislike her and that's it. Should I not be giving reasons for my opinionz?

You want to like her, go ahead. I don't give a shit, but don't try to justify it by trying to paint her into a complex and interesting character. She's none of that.

She's pretty. That's about it.

don't say shit that's incorrect is all im saying. it's like saying 'BELLA SWAN WAS A WELL DEVELOPED CHARACTER WHO WAS PERFECTLY CAPABLE OF LEAVING ABUSIVE SITUATIONS AT ANY TIME'

sorry if you like embarrassing yourself tho

 

[OneWingedDemon]

don't say shit that's incorrect is all im saying. it's like saying 'BELLA SWAN WAS A WELL DEVELOPED CHARACTER WHO WAS PERFECTLY CAPABLE OF LEAVING ABUSIVE SITUATIONS AT ANY TIME'

LOL the irony of this sentence.
But ok, Serah is deep and complex character. Mah bad

 

[Catherine]

I don't think anyone is trying to say Serah is deep or complex... You're just missing the whole point.

But like I said, I just won't even bother. None of us are going to change our minds anyway, sooo.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

LOL the irony of this sentence.
[/COLOR]But ok, Serah is deep and complex character. Mah bad

wow i did not realize there were no shades between 'CHARACTER WITH NO COMPLEXITY' (mary sue) and 'DEEP AND COMPLEX'

the world must be very special for people like that

 

[Celes Chere]

Oh give me a fucking break. Picking up a weapon and having a two-bit boohoo story does not a developed character make. That is precisely what a Mary-Sue is.

I don't think anyone ever said that? I thought we all agreed that Serah wasn't well developed in FFXIII. But none of us have played FFXIII-2, we don't know exactly what she's like. From what I've seen, she seems to be just fine but I wouldn't judge completely until I play it. I liked her in the first place though, so I'll go in liking her. xD

think Serah fits ALL of the above and then some. Everyone is ready to lay down their life for her in this game and for no fucking reason.

... People are laying down their lives for their friend? UNSPEAKABLE. FF has kind of always been about that with the main party.

Everyone finds her endearing,

Yeah... and everyone found characters like Rinoa, Rosa, Garnet, and Ashe endearing too. Why should they be hated for that?

In the first fucking minutes of the game her damsel status is further reinforced at least 3 times that I can count right off the top of my head. I mean fucking Noel is tasked with protecting her because Lightning no longer can. We progress, meet Snow, and STILL Noel and Snow have a cock fight over who gets to protect her. Again.

Also, what's wrong with being a damsel? What's wrong with a girl that hasn't grown up fighting her whole life, and isn't used to it? what's wrong with someone who needs to be protected? I can't use a weapon either and often times I depend on others too... I guess I'm just a mary sue.
Noel called Snow out on being a dumbass. Since he and Lightning spoke before this, it's not like he just shows up out of the blue and goes "HEY YOU'RE PRETTY IMMA PROTECT YOU"

Serah never even gets angry. At anyone.

OMG SERAH IS TOO NICE THAT BITCH?

he was basically an overpowered gary stu in that he was shown as being the best, super perfect at what he did, etc

Pretty much, Sephiroth is considered perfect by every character even when he DOES go bat shit insane he is still known for being the most powerful being in pretty much the entire world. And then - he goes insane for pretty much no reason. He snaps after suddenly coming to this realization that he's a monster rather abruptly. Interesting that Serah cries and feels scared that she will become a monster but Sephiroth snapping, killing everyone, and then making 25645756873234123 speeches about his Mother makes him a better character? I actually like Sephiroth before he went all murderous and spiteful... because he wasn't so smug back then. He was the kind of guy that knew he was respected, but didn't really say anything about it. And he actually smiled and cared about his friends. The way he selfishly gives all that up because he was easily manipulated by Hojo and easily quick to not listen to Zack who he'd been fond of makes me respect him less as a character.
See this is the kind of thing I don't understand~ Serah's nice, that makes her boring.
Lightning's a bitch ~ OMG SHE'S SO UNIQUE AND OMG I WANT TO BE HER
I understand wanting a character to have flaws, but even the nicest character has flaws. Serah for instance should have considered Lightning's feelings a bit more in FFXIII, and was rather naive. (she's young though, you can forgive her a bit)

Idk. It just boggles my mind that the reason Serah is hated/disliked is because she's too nice.

 

[Super Mario]

XIII-2 is where her story's at, regardless of what she went through in XIII (though I didn't mind her parts during my brief playthrough). What happens to her now or where she falls into is yet to be seen, judgement must be held until then.

 

[Max Payne]

I don't think Serah is beautiful.

That is all.

 

[Fangu]

Warning, Lightning rant ahead

I want to play the game before saying anything for 100%. But if what One Winged Demon is saying about Serah being rescued all the time is true (and I've seen that fight between Snow and Noel, although I don't know a word Japanese so I'll have to take your word for it, that they're fighting over the right to protect her) I just find it a bit sad - but that's because I'm comparing her to Lightning, which is one of my all time favorite heroines. You never expected anyone to jump in and save Lightning, because Lightning could handle herself, and of course that's because she's been trained a a soldier and a guard, so comparing her to Serah like that is ridiculous. And I guess that's what I'm doing, I AM comparing her to Lightning, and I need to play Serah and see her "for myself" before really making up my mind about her.

I just feel very strongly for Lightning, and in my head I guess I divide heroines into two groups - there's all the others, and then there's Lightning. Even Tifa I can't put into the "can handle herself" batch because even she plays the damsel role a couple of times. Not that there's anything wrong with being rescued! It's just that heroines like Lightning, that dare to be different, are hard to come by. (Starbuck in the new Battlestar Galactica series is one other I can come up with.) I have no numbers for this but I would guess Serah is a much more likable character than Lightning (though I think Lightning was generally very well liked, if I'm not mistaken) - it's easier to like someone who's sweet and kind. And I guess there's some psych thing to that, we like people we want to be, and would you rather be a bitch than kind? So seeing that Square actually took a chance of making their female heroine less feminine, really, is a delight. They took chances with her, definitely.

That being said, it's just... Lightning's whole attitude and personality. I feel I can relate to her (more). Because being in settings with a lot of guys in my life (especially with work), I've experienced how a lot of people still question my interest and devotion as "wanting to do man stuff". Like I want to prove a point or something. With Lightning, it's just who she is. It's Lightning, in battle you can trust that she does her job, you don't have to look after her. She's skilled. She's one of the good ones. She can do what anyone can, no limits. She doesn't have to be nice and sweet and feminine, she has other values than to be a people pleaser. Still that doesn't mean she doesn't care about people or that she can't be a good friend.

I don't really know where I'm going with this rant... oh yes. Serah. Isn't there a point in the game where she says she wants to pay back Snow for what he did for her? I do hope she actually does get to pay him back, and not just by randomly saving his life (with someone else in the party). I hope Serah gets to be heroic in her own way.

And, I also hope we get to see her develop. Lightning 'came out of her shell' in XIII and learned through befriending Hope that she had been a bitch to Serah and that she was taking care of her own need to protect her more than to actually protect her by being her sister and listen to her. So I hope there's a similar kind of growth with Serah. Good storytelling requires character development.

On a side note, when people say Fang HAS to be a lesbian it makes me a little sad. Just because a woman has spine and attitude, she has to be into ladies? As a butch kid who refused to wear dresses and sit nicely at the table, well, I can see Fang as a heterosexual, she'd just be a little bit different than the other gals. She just walks straighter. (But don't worry, I still thinks the lesbianism suits her better )

 

[Catherine]

ALL THE AWARDS, TIFF.

 

[Super Mario]

DIRECTED TO BIG BOSS


I would like to say that despite not getting much development and her characterization isn't up to par, she can still improve. I don't know about you, but I think she's pretty regardless of her character.

 

[Arianna]

Well Snow may be a little obnoxious as I believe was intended. But the truth is he's a good-natured (hot albeit rough around the edges) guy and he really loves Serah; many women would be lucky to have a man as devoted to them as Snow is to Serah. 
And yes, all Final Fantasy characters are ridiculously attractive; this is like a key hallmark of the series.



I find this discussion funny because I wonder how many male fans dislike characters in part because they find them too nice and attractive. 
I think females in general tend to be put off by girls who are a combination, of smart, pretty and well loved by those around them; it reminds me of good old fashioned cattiness.

I feel kind of bad that I started (or at least helped start) such a debate. I don't want to see this become like Tifa vs. Aerith. Personally, regarding those two, I like them both. I just am not so pulled towards Serah. Besides everything I've already mentioned, I just don't know why it is, but Serah repels me more than she reals me in. Honestly, most of the characters in XIII were like that - they weren't very compelling. I found Fang and Vanille to really have the back story, while Sazh and Hope are a close second. I don't know what else to say.

I didn't even see this... ouch.
I'd like to think we aren't that shallow.

I have no right to say any of you are like that, but if I may use myself as an example:

Spoiler

If my looks were Serah's looks, I'm sure she wouldn't be so loved. Not saying that's the opinion from anyone here, but...

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

If my looks were Serah's looks, I'm sure she wouldn't be so loved. Not saying that's the opinion from anyone here, but...

i just can't understand why it's serah's fault she's good looking when everyone in ff13 is good looking

accusing people who like her of only liking her for her looks would be like saying fans of lightning only like her cause she's hot

and yeah, there is no body variety in ff games. but it's not like this is a new serah-only sort of thing?

 

[Celes Chere]

You are not an ugly person, Ari. And this is MEDIA. Media will always make their ladies and men out to be nearly perfect when it comes to their looks and physique. At least to the point where it is not a look or body you can achieve as a human being because it's simply not possible. It's like how models are actually air brushed and made up and all that. Beneath the make up and everything else, they look like normal human beings. But we're not talking about normal human beings, these are video game characters. They are supposed to have a fantasy feel to them, they are supposed to have traits that humans can't really ever compare to when it comes to their looks. But I find it interesting you chose Serah to feel all of this about. I feel that Lightning is the 'hot' sister and Serah is the 'cute' one. xD I think Fang and Vanille are probably the prettiest characters in the game. It's nothing to feel intimidated by, though. After all it is only a game.

I personally dislike many characters that are drop dead gorgeous. And I think I like a lot of characters that aren't considered the prettiest. I think I've seen most people at least on this site, be reasonable when it comes to visuals and personalities.

 

[Arianna]

You are not an ugly person, Ari. And this is MEDIA. Media will always make their ladies and men out to be nearly perfect when it comes to their looks and physique. At least to the point where it is not a look or body you can achieve as a human being because it's simply not possible. It's like how models are actually air brushed and made up and all that. Beneath the make up and everything else, they look like normal human beings. But we're not talking about normal human beings, these are video game characters. They are supposed to have a fantasy feel to them, they are supposed to have traits that humans can't really ever compare to when it comes to their looks. But I find it interesting you chose Serah to feel all of this about. I feel that Lightning is the 'hot' sister and Serah is the 'cute' one. xD I think Fang and Vanille are probably the prettiest characters in the game. It's nothing to feel intimidated by, though. After all it is only a game. ... I personally dislike many characters that are drop dead gorgeous. And I think I like a lot of characters that aren't considered the prettiest. I think I've seen most people at least on this site, be reasonable when it comes to visuals and personalities.

Yeah, you're right.