Final Fantasy XIII-2

Celesta

Pro Adventurer
Warning, Lightning rant ahead :P

I want to play the game before saying anything for 100%. But if what One Winged Demon is saying about Serah being rescued all the time is true (and I've seen that fight between Snow and Noel, although I don't know a word Japanese so I'll have to take your word for it, that they're fighting over the right to protect her) I just find it a bit sad - but that's because I'm comparing her to Lightning, which is one of my all time favorite heroines. You never expected anyone to jump in and save Lightning, because Lightning could handle herself, and of course that's because she's been trained a a soldier and a guard, so comparing her to Serah like that is ridiculous. And I guess that's what I'm doing, I AM comparing her to Lightning, and I need to play Serah and see her "for myself" before really making up my mind about her.

I just feel very strongly for Lightning, and in my head I guess I divide heroines into two groups - there's all the others, and then there's Lightning. Even Tifa I can't put into the "can handle herself" batch because even she plays the damsel role a couple of times. Not that there's anything wrong with being rescued! It's just that heroines like Lightning, that dare to be different, are hard to come by. (Starbuck in the new Battlestar Galactica series is one other I can come up with.) I have no numbers for this but I would guess Serah is a much more likable character than Lightning (though I think Lightning was generally very well liked, if I'm not mistaken) - it's easier to like someone who's sweet and kind. And I guess there's some psych thing to that, we like people we want to be, and would you rather be a bitch than kind? So seeing that Square actually took a chance of making their female heroine less feminine, really, is a delight. They took chances with her, definitely.

That being said, it's just... Lightning's whole attitude and personality. I feel I can relate to her (more). Because being in settings with a lot of guys in my life (especially with work), I've experienced how a lot of people still question my interest and devotion as "wanting to do man stuff". Like I want to prove a point or something. With Lightning, it's just who she is. It's Lightning, in battle you can trust that she does her job, you don't have to look after her. She's skilled. She's one of the good ones. She can do what anyone can, no limits. She doesn't have to be nice and sweet and feminine, she has other values than to be a people pleaser. Still that doesn't mean she doesn't care about people or that she can't be a good friend.

I don't really know where I'm going with this rant... oh yes. Serah. Isn't there a point in the game where she says she wants to pay back Snow for what he did for her? I do hope she actually does get to pay him back, and not just by randomly saving his life (with someone else in the party). I hope Serah gets to be heroic in her own way.

And, I also hope we get to see her develop. Lightning 'came out of her shell' in XIII and learned through befriending Hope that she had been a bitch to Serah and that she was taking care of her own need to protect her more than to actually protect her by being her sister and listen to her. So I hope there's a similar kind of growth with Serah. Good storytelling requires character development.

On a side note, when people say Fang HAS to be a lesbian it makes me a little sad. Just because a woman has spine and attitude, she has to be into ladies? As a butch kid who refused to wear dresses and sit nicely at the table, well, I can see Fang as a heterosexual, she'd just be a little bit different than the other gals. She just walks straighter. (But don't worry, I still thinks the lesbianism suits her better ;))

I love Lightning, she's my favorite character. But I love Serah too. I think the pair represent a character foil. Lightning and Serah are both strong; their strength just manifests in different ways.
Lightning is strong in that at a very young she sacrificed the opportunity to experience a normal adolescence so that she could raise her sister on her own. She is strong willed and physically strong. However as we meet her in FFXIII she doesn't emote very well and is more quick to resort to brute force or lash out at people if she feels overwhelmed. And though she is kind at heart it takes time for her to let her guard down and show that side to other people.
Serah is just the opposite, the fact that she is sweet, open, and endearing just works better than if she were a carbon copy of her sister. Her strength is in how she cares for those around her, copes with hardship and follows her convictions.
She should be vulnerable and perceived as naive or weak where her sister is strong because Lightning raised and protected her for many years. The fact that she seems like a normal 18 year old; goes to school, has a boyfriend, is girly, is all a testament to Lightning doing her best to shelter her so that she could live a normal teenage life.
I guess SE could have made her bitter, unruly, and disgruntled as a consequence of losing her parents at a young age and not getting as much time to spend with her workaholic older sister but I'm happy they didn't go there.
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Yeah, you're right.

03346.gif
 

Kobato

Pro Adventurer
Oh give me a fucking break. Picking up a weapon and having a two-bit boohoo story does not a developed character make. That is precisely what a Mary-Sue is.

If she didn't pick up a weapon at all, you would complain that Serah is a weak damsel in distress. :/ She hasn't had the proper chance to be developed yet because in the original game she was out of action due to storyline purposes. A Mary Sue is a character who has no flaws, how is picking up a weapon and having the chance for a lead role in the sequel make her flawless ? That makes no sense.

I think Serah fits ALL of the above and then some. Everyone is ready to lay down their life for her in this game and for no fucking reason. Everyone finds her endearing, and any "flaws" she may have are too made to be endearing and not grating.

Their reason to lay down their life for her is because they care for her as a lover/ sister/ friend. They care about her because of those simple reasons. You would help your lover/ sibling/ friend if they were in trouble, so what's the issue ? She has people who care about her, it's a good thing, it means she's a loved person <3

In the first fucking minutes of the game her damsel status is further reinforced at least 3 times that I can count right off the top of my head. I mean fucking Noel is tasked with protecting her because Lightning no longer can. We progress, meet Snow, and STILL Noel and Snow have a cock fight over who gets to protect her. Again.

WELL. Cloud is Aerith's bodyguard. Squall is Rinoa's knight. Zidane promised to protect Garnet, Tidus is Yuna's guardian. Sooooooo. What's wrong with Noel doing the same to Serah ?

Snow is her fiance and Noel is some new guy who strolls in, of course that's going to cause some drama between them.

She's so boring :\

So is Light/ Claire. Her personality has been done before. She's friggen Squall Leonhart with a vagina for crying out loud. >>
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I never saw Serah as annoying or an air head but idk, no one ever gives me an example just claims that she is one. :monster: I haven't seen a time where she has acted like one. Vanille was more like that to be honest, skipping around and being overly hyperactive. (not to say I didn't like her)

In the first game, Serah expressed concerns for Snow, her sister, and dealt with her own struggles because she was going to 'become a monster'. I don't see how that makes her a Mary Sue or a ditz. It's not really her uh, fault that she turned into a crystal and had to be saved. And I don't understand why people HATE characters that need to be rescued. omg she was turned into a crystal what a bitch

And we like, don't know enough about XIII-2 to pass a judgement, really. At least to me because I haven't seen all of the spoilers. Is there a time in XIII-2 where she acted majorly annoying or like a fuck up? Do tell. :monster: I see everyone dishing out the insults, but no one's really backing it up.

It kinda seems to me like people are just assuming
"omg a girl with pink hair and boobs she must be a dumb whore"

Sweety, check my post again. I was talking about Serah in XIII-2. :monster:

I loved her in the first game -- and not just because of that glorious schoolgirl, jailbait look she had there (but, yeah, that was a big part of it too). She's a stupid, annoying airhead in this one. Check out those translations I linked to earlier if you need examples:

http://xi-feng.livejournal.com/

And, yeah, like Arianna mentioned, Serah's got several other qualities of a Mary Sue -- aside from just being pretty (which, yes, is common in FF girls and not the pivotal issue in this case), she gets to have special snowflake powers for literally no reason other than "because," is always on an even keel, and everyone adores her except the guy who's trying to kill her. Oh, and she's a goddamn schoolteacher.

I mean come on.

Lightning's not a Mary Sue, though, because she has some serious personality flaws (in the first game anyway). She's cold, abrasive, and tries to hide behind walls like Squall. The woman even changed her name to "Lightning" of all things in an attempt to mask her weaker side.

Vanille's no Mary Sue either -- she's got issues with self-loathing and running away from things.

Stuff like that is what prevented Aerith from being a Mary Sue despite being beautiful, adored and having the special snowflake powers in her game (though there was at least a reason in her case). She tends to be harsh, insensitive and is socially awkward; she's also terribly conflicted about who she is. She's liked despite her personality flaws, not because she's sweet as the sap from a frost-covered maple on a winter morning.
 

Kobato

Pro Adventurer
Sweety, check my post again. I was talking about Serah in XIII-2. :monster:

I loved her in the first game -- and not just because of that glorious schoolgirl, jailbait look she had there (but, yeah, that was a big part of it too). She's a stupid, annoying airhead in this one. Check out those translations I linked to earlier if you need examples:

Hehehe is it strange that I read all this post in Puss in Boots voice ? :awesome:

She's a stupid, annoying airhead in this one.

But..................... she loves cats. ):
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
And if she'd put on that oufit from the first game again and just stop talking, this kitty would love her back. :awesome: "I will never forget you, Margarita. I mean Rosa."
 

Catherine

coquettish cat
AKA
Itsuki, Vanille, Meruru, Catherine.
I have read some of those translations and I honestly can't seem to figure out what you guys find so annoying about her. But okay.

I don't care if you like the character or not, but some people are just judging her way too harshly when they haven't even played the game. Plus, the North American version's dialogues may vary from the Jap ones. Remember that what you're reading is nothing more than a fan translation. I'm not saying the girl is doing a bad job or anything, I think it's very nice of her to actually take the time to do this and everything, but I think you get my point.
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
03346.gif

Well, I meant with the stuff about me, and judging by media sources which are definitely always unreal.

She's a stupid, annoying airhead in this one. Check out those translations I linked to earlier if you need examples:

http://xi-feng.livejournal.com/

And, yeah, like Arianna mentioned, Serah's got several other qualities of a Mary Sue -- aside from just being pretty (which, yes, is common in FF girls and not the pivotal issue in this case), she gets to have special snowflake powers for literally no reason other than "because," is always on an even keel, and everyone adores her except the guy who's trying to kill her. Oh, and she's a goddamn schoolteacher.

I mean come on.

Lightning's not a Mary Sue, though, because she has some serious personality flaws (in the first game anyway). She's cold, abrasive, and tries to hide behind walls like Squall. The woman even changed her name to "Lightning" of all things in an attempt to mask her weaker side.

Vanille's no Mary Sue either -- she's got issues with self-loathing and running away from things.

Stuff like that is what prevented Aerith from being a Mary Sue despite being beautiful, adored and having the special snowflake powers in her game (though there was at least a reason in her case). She tends to be harsh, insensitive and is socially awkward; she's also terribly conflicted about who she is. She's liked despite her personality flaws, not because she's sweet as the sap from a frost-covered maple on a winter morning.

I still stand by the 'Mary Sue' and the 'too much' stuff.
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Serah : "I know all that. If I change time then I'll see into the future and my life will be cut short. But even so... even so, I'll protect the future!"

what a dumb bitch! I totally get what you mean now.



:awesome:
but rly I don't see a quote that's too bad, then again I only looked at two of the LJ cuts. Are there any specific ones?
 

OneWingedDemon

NOT AMUSED
She does nothing, though.
It's Noel who fights the final battle. Oh and SAVES HER AGAIN by throwing himself in front of Caius' sword.

She's completely useless in this one, bb. If you actually take the time to read the translations in full, or if you watched the streams, that "protecting shit"? It's all just superficial talk. Nothing happens. Serah's behaviour as we progress through the game doesn't reflect any of that.
 

Catherine

coquettish cat
AKA
Itsuki, Vanille, Meruru, Catherine.
^ Wow, thanks for the spoiler.
Edit: Oh never mind, the damage is still done though ;____;

Apparently a lot of people are annoyed by her 'duh' responses sometimes. Like, saying stuff we already know.

Thing is, as far as I know most of those lines are not actually spoken, it's just her thinking, so I honestly don't understand.
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Well, I guess I'll just have to wait until I play the game to find out because I'm trying to avoid most spoilers. :monster: And you're right OWD, someone should split all of our character.... discussion. :awesome:
 

Catherine

coquettish cat
AKA
Itsuki, Vanille, Meruru, Catherine.
Maybe we should just have a thread called 'XIII-2 Character Discussion' since apparently people have a lot to say. :awesome:
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
Pudding!Serah: "Our transformation magic is perfect! Don't give the game away, Noel! ...Please Mog, next we need you to find a 'miracle honey'"
w h a t

is this game
 

Fangu

Great Old One
Well, this thread was getting sorta quiet, so it did life things up ;D

@ Serah Farron (lol this is a bit strange) - Serah 'gets it' in this thread because, well, the thread is about XIII-2 and Serah is one of the (if not the) main character(s). Previous heroines has 'taken it' in other games too, like Meruru said. (Poor Tifa :/ )

And what would a discussion forum be if we all agreed ;)
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
Am I missing something about the general study of Mary Sues, because I don't see how is being a teacher relevant to that?
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
No need for the discussion to be split so long as spoilers are tagged, and other topics of XIII-2 discussion aren't overwhelmed/become impossible.

Remember that what you're reading is nothing more than a fan translation. I'm not saying the girl is doing a bad job or anything, I think it's very nice of her to actually take the time to do this and everything, but I think you get my point.

Maybe it lacks the prestige of being official, but it is from someone who has lived and worked in the country for a few years. That, and I've watched the streams on top of reading the translations, and I picked up on the annoying things about Serah in this game on my own.

But... hasn't main characters from other games done it? I'm with Tiff on this one, I just don't understand.

It seems like half the shit people are complaining about, has been done/seen before in other games, but she's getting all the hate for it for some reason.

I can't count how many games I've played where the protags repeat the same thing over and over again after someone else already did (and had really annoying voice overs) ...

It's always been annoying, but it's even worse here than it was in Dirge of Cerberus. The "I added two and two, but did I do it right?"-inflection of her voice on top of doing this literally all the time? It hurts.

You'd think they could remember how they made fun of shit like this way back in Final Fantasy V because of how tired and annoying it already was by that time. It should have been well and truly buried before the age of voice-acting.

hito said:
Am I missing something about the general study of Mary Sues, because I don't see how is being a teacher relevant to that?

Just another example of being pure-as-snow "perfect."
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
Am I missing something about the general study of Mary Sues, because I don't see how is being a teacher relevant to that?
well see yoko was also a teacher but see she had huge boobs but serah has medium to small boobs so obviously her being a teacher has to do with how people will overlook her flaw (small boobs) just to be a teacher!!!
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
well see yoko was also a teacher but see she had huge boobs but serah has medium to small boobs so obviously her being a teacher has to do with how people will overlook her flaw (small boobs) just to be a teacher!!!
tits

of course, how could i be so blind
 
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