Game of Thrones

[Random Nobody]

Spoiler

You'd be surprised how many fans think that Shad. Nobody can use their brain anymore. They just take it at face value.

But no, I've been seeing a lot of Dany hate on the interwebz since the start of the season. Many of it from females. It's hard to believe that there are women out there that are misogynistic towards strong, female characters, but this fandom proves that with every new episode that hits the air. I understand that some feel Dany has gotten too big for her britches--that was the impression I was getting around Season 5, but every time something happens to knock her off that high horse, so just wait.

Spoiler

I've despised her character since shortly after Drogo (whom I also despised) died, and that whole white woman serf surfing scene was not only terrible for multiple reasons, but probably the precise point I stopped being able to take the show seriously. Homegirl's generally shitty acting and the boring and unsympathetic character motivation itself don't really help.

What is incomprehensible to me is the writers trying to go out of their way to characterise Cersei as some uniquely monstrous creature. It's not as though she's likeable, but I find it a pretty lame contrivance being that nothing she's done has been without reason (execrable ones, notwithstanding) and all her actions are largely retaliatory. The scale of death and destruction she's caused is roughly on par with others' shown on screen (though flashier), lesser than those who are mentioned as part of the world-building, and isn't solely a function of depravity, like we've seen in other cases. Cognitively, I can at least understand murdering the child of your child's murderer (and I will never forgive the writers for ruining Ellaria/the Sand sisters, the only worthwhile characters in the books), unlike, say, keeping a harem of daughters that you rape to create more daughters, or strangling a lover to death because she hurt your feelings.

Meanwhile, the narrative goes out of its way to paint characters like Tyrion and Jaime sympathetically when they are, in fact, fucking horrible. It's just #notrealistic.

 

[lithiumkatana17]

Spoiler

You'd be surprised how many fans think that Shad. Nobody can use their brain anymore. They just take it at face value.

But no, I've been seeing a lot of Dany hate on the interwebz since the start of the season. Many of it from females. It's hard to believe that there are women out there that are misogynistic towards strong, female characters, but this fandom proves that with every new episode that hits the air. I understand that some feel Dany has gotten too big for her britches--that was the impression I was getting around Season 5, but every time something happens to knock her off that high horse, so just wait.

Spoiler

I've despised her character since shortly after Drogo (whom I also despised) died, and that whole white woman serf surfing scene was not only terrible for multiple reasons, but probably the precise point I stopped being able to take the show seriously. Homegirl's generally shitty acting and the boring and unsympathetic character motivation itself don't really help.

What is incomprehensible to me is the writers trying to go out of their way to characterise Cersei as some uniquely monstrous creature. It's not as though she's likeable, but I find it a pretty lame contrivance being that nothing she's done has been without reason (execrable ones, notwithstanding) and all her actions are largely retaliatory. The scale of death and destruction she's caused is roughly on par with others' shown on screen (though flashier), lesser than those who are mentioned as part of the world-building, and isn't solely a function of depravity, like we've seen in other cases. Cognitively, I can at least understand murdering the child of your child's murderer (and I will never forgive the writers for ruining Ellaria/the Sand sisters, the only worthwhile characters in the books), unlike, say, keeping a harem of daughters that you rape to create more daughters, or strangling a lover to death because she hurt your feelings.

Meanwhile, the narrative goes out of its way to paint characters like Tyrion and Jaime sympathetically when they are, in fact, fucking horrible. It's just #notrealistic.

Spoiler

I think you're missing the point.

Yes, many of these deeply flawed characters are being painted in a sympathetic light, but don't confuse the writer's intentions with how fans perceive things. Whether you like it or not, Jon, Dany, and Tyrion are the three main characters of Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire; they're all uniquely important and have a part to play.

I like a lot of the characters on the show, but that doesn't mean I don't know that they are deeply flawed and that I forgive them for that. I love Jaime to death; doesn't mean I've forgotten that he once pushed a kid out of a window.

Also, Shae didn't just 'hurt' Tyrion's feelings, she kinda lied about him and Sansa conspiring to kill Joffrey in front of the entire court during the trial, all the while sleeping with Tyrion's father, while homeboy is being sentenced to death. I don't know about you, but yeah, I'd probably react the same way. Idk. Maybe you're a lot more forgiving than I am.

Tyrion and Jaime ARE sympathetic characters, for largely different reasons. Maybe you don't sympathize with them, but many others do.

Also, I still stick to my sentiment that if Daenerys were a man, nobody would give two fucks about how cocky she's been acting.

 

[Joe]

Spoiler

Also, I still stick to my sentiment that if Daenerys were a man, nobody would give two fucks about how cocky she's been acting.

Spoiler

I half agree with you here. I think if Dany were a male character nobody would give a fuck in general about them. Being a 'strong female' is her defining quality. I truly find her to be the worst written character in the series, for at least the last 4 to 5 seasons now. She's just so formulaic in a really dull way. Problem occurs, she tries to throw her weight around, then she does something 'badass' to win over the people/convince the masses/assert dominance. Then a new issue arises and it's the same again.
I think the best written characters in GoT are all female - with some male outliers - but Dany, for me, is not one of them.

 

[Flare]

Spoiler

I must admit that I liked Dany more in the earlier seasons than I do now. I really was eager to see where she would go. Not sure how I feel about her character right now. I still like her but... idk

 

[Random Nobody]

Spoiler

I think you're missing the point.

Yes, many of these deeply flawed characters are being painted in a sympathetic light, but don't confuse the writer's intentions with how fans perceive things.

I don't think I am. I'm not really arguing about fan perceptions (and to be honest, I don't know what the majority opinions even are), but the way the show handles (or mishandles) character writing. For my own part, I'm largely apathetic to the cast itself, and the criticism is down to how they're executed. E.g. I think the Daenerys the showrunners meant to write might have been interesting to watch, but the lack of (acting) charisma and her extremely questionable mess of a character arc has made almost all her subsequent appearances a constant source of irritation. The show's penchant for constantly humiliating her (surpassed only by its love for humiliating Sansa)? Also very irritating. Whilst I'm sure on some level the latter is meant to arouse viewer sympathies, when the character is distilled, the concentrate that's left is nothing but presumption and hierarchical ambition. This isn't any different from a lot of the named characters in the series, but it is grating when the story is trying with a lot of fanfare to convince us of the existence of some kind of benevolence, ethical complexity. All the writing that's meant to supply any kind of depth is wasted because it's....fuccing bad. Like...full body cringe bad. The whole thing watching like a Tintin tale kind of undermines everything they were trying to accomplish.

Also, Shae didn't just 'hurt' Tyrion's feelings, she kinda lied about him and Sansa conspiring to kill Joffrey in front of the entire court during the trial, all the while sleeping with Tyrion's father, while homeboy is being sentenced to death. I don't know about you, but yeah, I'd probably react the same way. Idk. Maybe you're a lot more forgiving than I am.

What I'm saying is that he didn't need to kill her, and in fact went out of his way to do so. I don't particularly like the optics of murdering a theretofore impoverished woman (especially a prostitute) in anger or in any other state, but it's not the action itself that I find most disagreeable (in a sea of disagreeableness), but the way its contextualised. I could be remembering incorrectly, but the narrative seemed to especially emphasise the emotional betrayal rather than the material one. That is -- the fact that she was fucking his father and was evidently no different from the girl from his youth that Tywin bribed to trick him. The purposeful symmetry and the framing centred his personal humiliation and his anger at such, and that to me just isn't a good enough reason to kill anyone. Had she just been persuaded by money to testify against him, I don't think he would have done what he did. Distasteful on its own, I guess, with how it mirrors real-life incidences, but it's less that than it is how charitably its treated in the work itself because its implicitly (and on an explicit, meta level) considered justified (and even righteous).

Tyrion and Jaime ARE sympathetic characters, for largely different reasons. Maybe you don't sympathize with them, but many others do.

You're right in that I don't sympathise with them. And I don't dislike them either, largely because the show fails to inspire any kind of attachment in me at all. The annoyance just comes from the uneven way morality is handled. I'm supposed to like so-and-so character despite whatever deficiency, but then I'm supposed to believe that a reactive character like, say, Cersei is some uncontrollable beast because the writers directly told me so. I just find the inconsistency obnoxious. Feels like I'm being bamboozled.

Also, I still stick to my sentiment that if Daenerys were a man, nobody would give two fucks about how cocky she's been acting.

Maybe. Particularly if they're only critical of her behaviour now. But I'm sure there are large contingencies of people who view it as an extension of her previous arcs, which all have the same thematic basis and are repetitive. Personally didn't mind it one way or another besides giving me secondhand embarrassment because I don't find Emilia Clarke convincing.

 

[lithiumkatana17]

Spoiler

I think you're missing the point.

Yes, many of these deeply flawed characters are being painted in a sympathetic light, but don't confuse the writer's intentions with how fans perceive things.

I don't think I am. I'm not really arguing about fan perceptions (and to be honest, I don't know what the majority opinions even are), but the way the show handles (or mishandles) character writing. For my own part, I'm largely apathetic to the cast itself, and the criticism is down to how they're executed. E.g. I think the Daenerys the showrunners meant to write might have been interesting to watch, but the lack of (acting) charisma and her extremely questionable mess of a character arc has made almost all her subsequent appearances a constant source of irritation. The show's penchant for constantly humiliating her (surpassed only by its love for humiliating Sansa)? Also very irritating. Whilst I'm sure on some level the latter is meant to arouse viewer sympathies, when the character is distilled, the concentrate that's left is nothing but presumption and hierarchical ambition. This isn't any different from a lot of the named characters in the series, but it is grating when the story is trying with a lot of fanfare to convince us of the existence of some kind of benevolence, ethical complexity. All the writing that's meant to supply any kind of depth is wasted because it's....fuccing bad. Like...full body cringe bad. The whole thing watching like a Tintin tale kind of undermines everything they were trying to accomplish.

Also, Shae didn't just 'hurt' Tyrion's feelings, she kinda lied about him and Sansa conspiring to kill Joffrey in front of the entire court during the trial, all the while sleeping with Tyrion's father, while homeboy is being sentenced to death. I don't know about you, but yeah, I'd probably react the same way. Idk. Maybe you're a lot more forgiving than I am.

What I'm saying is that he didn't need to kill her, and in fact went out of his way to do so. I don't particularly like the optics of murdering a theretofore impoverished woman (especially a prostitute) in anger or in any other state, but it's not the action itself that I find most disagreeable (in a sea of disagreeableness), but the way its contextualised. I could be remembering incorrectly, but the narrative seemed to especially emphasise the emotional betrayal rather than the material one. That is -- the fact that she was fucking his father and was evidently no different from the girl from his youth that Tywin bribed to trick him. The purposeful symmetry and the framing centred his personal humiliation and his anger at such, and that to me just isn't a good enough reason to kill anyone. Had she just been persuaded by money to testify against him, I don't think he would have done what he did. Distasteful on its own, I guess, with how it mirrors real-life incidences, but it's less that than it is how charitably its treated in the work itself because its implicitly (and on an explicit, meta level) considered justified (and even righteous).

Tyrion and Jaime ARE sympathetic characters, for largely different reasons. Maybe you don't sympathize with them, but many others do.

You're right in that I don't sympathise with them. And I don't dislike them either, largely because the show fails to inspire any kind of attachment in me at all. The annoyance just comes from the uneven way morality is handled. I'm supposed to like so-and-so character despite whatever deficiency, but then I'm supposed to believe that a reactive character like, say, Cersei is some uncontrollable beast because the writers directly told me so. I just find the inconsistency obnoxious. Feels like I'm being bamboozled.

Also, I still stick to my sentiment that if Daenerys were a man, nobody would give two fucks about how cocky she's been acting.

Maybe. Particularly if they're only critical of her behaviour now. But I'm sure there are large contingencies of people who view it as an extension of her previous arcs, which all have the same thematic basis and are repetitive. Personally didn't mind it one way or another besides giving me secondhand embarrassment because I don't find Emilia Clarke convincing.

Spoiler

I'm wondering why you bother watching the show at all if you're largely apathetic to the cast then.

Like I'm genuinely curious. I can't watch a movie or a show if I'm apathetic or indifferent to the cast, so I wonder what it is that you have invested in the show.

I mean, I love the books, I love the show, and although some decisions about the plot and characters have pissed me off, I do my best to keep the show and the books separate, because no film adaptation is ever going to be true to its source material. The writers know the endgame for the story and some key plot points, but it's up to them to connect the dots for how everyone gets from point A to point B.

Don't think I'm a mindless Dany lover, I acknowledge that her characterization has been less than the best, especially over the past few seasons, and like Joe said, have been relying on 'badass' moments to win the audience over again, but I do think that by the end of this season, and hopefully the last one, things with her character will be different. If the spoiler leaks I've read are to be believed...

 

[Flare]

Oh. My. God.

 

[lithiumkatana17]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT AN EPISODE!!!!!!!

BURN MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Flare]

Spoiler: S7E4

WHAT A FUCKING EPISODE LIKE OHHHHHHH BABY

SO MUCH FIRE
BIG DRAGON
MUCH WOW <3

FINALLY

Dany is doing her own thing!!! Instead of waging politics (like Tyrion is good at) or burning homes and castles with her dragons (like most Targaryen's were good at) she took a third route. It's about fucking time that something is happening!!!

Best episode of the season so far. Omg. I need to absorb the epicness that was in that battle. @_____@

 

[lithiumkatana17]

Spoiler: S7E4

WHAT A FUCKING EPISODE LIKE OHHHHHHH BABY

SO MUCH FIRE
BIG DRAGON
MUCH WOW <3

FINALLY

Dany is doing her own thing!!! Instead of waging politics (like Tyrion is good at) or burning homes and castles with her dragons (like most Targaryen's were good at) she took a third route. It's about fucking time that something is happening!!!

Best episode of the season so far. Omg. I need to absorb the epicness that was in that battle. @_____@

Spoiler

Yeah, but did you see the preview for the next episode though?
She's obviously gonna go overboard somehow, if Varys's line to Tyrion 'You need to find a way to make her listen' is anything to go by.

10 bucks says Jon's gonna be involved somehow.

And speaking of Jon, did you see the preview for the next episode?!?!?!

He's gonna meet Drogon!!!!

 

[Flare]

Spoiler

Yeah, but did you see the preview for the next episode though?
She's obviously gonna go overboard somehow, if Varys's line to Tyrion 'You need to find a way to make her listen' is anything to go by.

10 bucks says Jon's gonna be involved somehow.

And speaking of Jon, did you see the preview for the next episode?!?!?!

He's gonna meet Drogon!!!!

Spoiler

Hmmm I dunno if she's going to go overboard somehow... actually my first thought was that Varys feels him and Tyrion are losing control of her, as in, she's not following everything they say and she's making her own plans. Which... tbh I think is best for her, almost. WHICH as much as I love Tyrion, I don't know if his tactics and plans are going to deliver the best results for Dany, so to speak.
I loved what Jon told her about, if she burns and destroys things to become queen she'll be like all the rest.

Idk we'll see what happens. This battle gave me some hope for Dany again. I hope it doesn't get snatched away. She was a huge fave of mine initially.

Also thank fuck Drogon, Jamie, and Bronn are all still alive. Wonder how jamie's gonna get out of that river.

And ARYA you fuckin badass fighter. I loved that scene with her and Brienne.

Lastly, I like the preview. Jon meets Drogon face to face
But, interesting thing I was just thinking of. Everyone currently following Dany is doing so of their own free will (to my knowledge), the Dothraki, the slaves she freed, Unsullied, Greyjoys that allied with her, etc. Yet in the preview she's telling the Westerosi who just survived that battle with her to follow her and join with her...or die. She didn't tell that to the others. They followed her because they chose her as their queen, because they believe in her, love her, whatever. It's their choice, as Missandei said.
I'm just worried she'll alienate the Westerosi from her if she goes and says that stuff.

 

[Shademp]

Spoiler: S07E04

- "Chaos is a ladder".
YES! YES! CREEP OUT THE CREEPER! FUCK YES! I am quite enjoying the Three-Eyed Raven, despite the tragedy of Bran Stark essentially being dead.

- I feel so sorry for Meera Reed. She is cast aside without a tangible reward for her actions.

- Arya being on equal footing to, or greater than, Brienne of Tarth. AW YEAH! SO BADASS!


- I liked the cave paintings scene but I was quite put off by how intricate the drawings of the white walkers were. They were too...detailed and color intensive compared to the rest of the paintings. My eyes saw a painting made by the staff of GoT, not a painting made by the Children of the Forest or ancient humans. That brought me out of the scene a bit.

- I hope that Drogon being hurt will make Daenerys smarter and make her not fly straight into the red keep. The capital is sure to have many scorpions. If Daenerys flies straight to King's Landing without a plan then her dragons are as good as dead.

- My impression is that medieval armor is heavy and difficult to take off, so how in the world will Jaime get out of that river? Even with Bronn's help, I'm gonna have trouble visualizing how Jaime gets out alive.

 

[Channy]

Spoiler: fecking GoT

Holy crap on a cracker. We waited 7 damn seasons to finally see these babies in action and boy did we get it. I like that at that point, she had only taken Drogon with her and still showed the entire army how one dragon can decimate them. Taking 3 to King's Landing and she'll squash Cersei.

I guess she finally had to listen to poor dead Olenna... she tried listening to her advisor but in order to really accomplish something she had to ignore him. Hopefully she'll find her way back to him though and remember why she recruited him. Dany can be quite strong willed and pig headed at times so let's hope she remembers who's there to help her on her side.

meh Jaime. I was glad that Bronn survived even if he did try to take a chunk out of Drogon. I didn't think it'd be that easy though. The skull they'd previously crushed in the tomb when showing Cersei the weapon was old and brittle.. It'll take a lot more to take those flying puppies down.

 

[Shademp]

Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner should just marry already

 

[Channy]

They are just the cutest, they're everything I wanted out of a sister-relationship.

 

[Cthulhu]

Williams is short tho

 

[Shademp]

 

[Shademp]

Neat t-shirt by PBS Space Time

*Almost* accurate to Game of Thrones, except the white walkers only arrive AFTER the heat death of the universe.

 

[lithiumkatana17]

 

[Cthulhu]

Spoiler: Stuntmen doing a stunt

(making of stuff)

 

[lithiumkatana17]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT THIS EPISODE WAS AWESOME I NEED MORE

NEXT SUNDAY IS GONNA BE SO FUCKING INTENSE I MIGHT DIE

 

[Flare]

Lot's of good bits in this episode. I feel like it wasn't quite as "OH MY GOD!!!" as last episode, yet it's also a sort of 'calm before the storm' I think.

Last two episodes should be amazeballs.

 

[Flintlock]

Something I keep thinking about is how much I felt the loss of certain characters when they were killed off earlier in the show, and contrasting it with how little I miss them now. I know it's not really fair to call them distractions but that's how I've started to feel about them. Every episode this season has been so purposeful that it makes the previous seasons seem quite plodding by comparison. And the cast that's left is still really, really strong. I'm excited to see the dynamic between

Spoiler: S07E05

Ser Davos, Jon and The Hound. I've been a fan of the Onion Knight ever since I heard that was his nickname and I was happy that he got a lot of screen time this episode. I also felt more empathy for Daenerys this time around. I mean, who wouldn't fall for Jon Snow...

 

[Shademp]

Spoiler: S07E05

Maynard says here that he issued an annulment for prince "Ragger" and remarried him to someone else at the same time, in a secret ceremony in Dorne.

YES! YES! REFERENCE TO MARRIAGE BETWEEN RHAEGAR AND LYANNA STARK! YES!

Or at least, I assume as much. A bit surprised that the ceremony took place in Dorne but I can't imagine it being anything other than the marriage between Rhaegar and Lyanna.

- 15782 SHITS! ...Steps. XD That should be, like, a meme or somethin'.

- If the show had followed a logical conclusion, Randyll Tarly would have pursued Sam Tarly by now to kill him for stealing the family's Valyrian steel sword. Randyll had plenty of opportunity until now to hunt down his son. With Randyll dead, we no longer have to worry about Sam being killed by his father at least. Still, I feel very much like Sam got a free pass here because of poor writing.

- Gendry using the hammer, just like his father Robert Baratheon. I like! Too bad he didn't go with the alias of "Clovis". That is one badass name.

- Pregnant Cersei, eh? So her inevitable death at the hands of the valonquar will also mean the death of her unborn child. Compounding deaths!

- Poor Jorah. The second he gets reunited with Daenerys he decides on leaving. Then again, maybe this is a sign of Jorah being more at peace with the unrequited love he feels for Dany? He knows he best serves his queen from afar.

- Jon Snow is now the dragon whisperer. Understandable that Dany gets the hots for Snow more than ever.

- I forget how the creation of the undead works in this show. If you are killed by an undead, do you always turn into an undead? Or is proximity to the magic in the north and the Night King a necessary element?


ONLY TWO EPISODES LEFT!

 

[Jason Tandro]

Spoiler: About last night's episode

Made to commemorate Sam... leaving his responsibility again. But hey it's for the greater good.