General writing fiction discussion thrad.

[Dawnbreaker]

The thing is, real life people have unique speech patterns. At the most basic level we're talking about the catchphrases people over-use (my HoD always says, "Fabulous") but it's also about the richness and breadth of their vocabulary, the complexity of their sentence structures, whether they are wordy or laconic, the rhythmic pattern of their words.

A good way to practice this is by starting with people you know. Think of three or four people you know well who are all very different from each other. Then try to write the way each of them would speak in various real life banal scenarios, such as
- somebody running over their foot with a shopping trolley at the supermarket
(for example,
My brother in law: Fuckin' hell you eejit careful fuck
My mother: Oh my goodness, ha ha sorry, I didn't see you there
My eldest son: ....... Ouch.)

- calling everyone in the house to come eat dinner
- trying to book a hotel room
- pointing out to someone else that they have made a mistake
- apologizing for making a mistake

You can think of plenty more. The purpose of this exercise is to develop an ear for diverse voices. The ideal should be to give each character such a distinct voice that you don't even have to use dialogue tags for the reader to know which person is speaking.

OMG, this. I use to use that to explain to people what the differences in alignment meant in D&D--from the Lawful-Good (read: Lawful-Stupid) Paladin rushing into the fray and dying almost immediately to the Chaotic-Evil (read: BMF) slaughtering everyone, including his companions. The idea is to point out the differences, and that'll help you with the dialogue.

(I once created a story based on a D&D All-Stars (read: All alignments) Big Brother party. The result was hilarious...and disturbing. xD)

 

[Team_Wingless]

Yooooo so I've got no idea where this conversation is right now, if we're talking about writing dialogue or what, but I've got a ton of resources for writing combat and action scenes that I put together myself. Everyone everywhere sucks at writing combat, even me, even successful writers! No idea why this is, so I'm on a mission to get better action scenes into literature. If anyone needs help with their melee, get at me.

 

[Ghost X]

^Feel free to share. I personally like the idea that combat and action scenes in general should actually be written as suspense scenes solved by action.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

That's a good suggestion. I don't really like action scenes in fiction or in films, unless there's some doubt about who will win; I feel that they're just holding up the plot. However, if the course of the action poses problems for the protagonist to solve, it becomes more interesting (a little bit).

 

[Flare]

I had difficulty with action scenes a lot in the past (like fight scenes) but I'm getting better at them. I used to try and write out every move like a slow-motion movie, but that totally sucked; I think the key is to have some action, but if it's a long-ish battle, make sure you do more than just describing the moves. I actually have a couple fight scenes in a fantasy novel I wrote, and I think I did them fairly well. I tried to keep it always moving and progressing, like a real fight would be, not stalling to describe every move. I also tried to put in some dialogue and varied events.
Well, I suppose the proof is in the pudding, but anyway.

 

[Super Mario]

I'd kill to learn some action scenes and shoot outs. Most of the physical combat I've learned through RPs, but I wanna learn shoot outs.

 

[Ghost X]

^As an example of a shootout, look at all the information communicated through the imagery of your signature's gif, just in the few seconds it runs for. There's actually a lot going on both inside and out of the frame. If you could translate all that effectively into writing, you'd be on to a good start. Perhaps use it as an exercise. Try googling "motivation-reaction units" too. If anyone has other ideas on small-scale story structuring (ie: at paragraph level, as opposed to wider chapter/story arcs), I'd be interested in hearing about it.

 

[Clement Rage]

Some of the best character moments can be in action scenes. Somebody fighting with a shotgun says something different about them than busting a chair across somebody's teeth. How someone fights is a part of characterisation. Do they go for the first draw or dive for cover? Do they prioritise the kill or injured allies? When do they panic, or not panic? How do they react to pain? Drop their guns or reload them? Plan ahead, or not? If a key character point is a certain philosophy, does their fighting style reflect that?

Saner Sephiroth generally goes for single stroke kills. That tells you something about him. Insane Sephiroth draws out his conflicts, while still being tactically clever-he does a lot of taking high ground and causing rockfalls, making Cloud expend energy climbing and cutting up rocks, with the end result that Cloud gets tired first. That tells you something about him.

Revenge of the Sith, final battle:

Spoiler

Anakin is total aggression, because he's in a rage, Obi-Wan is mostly defensive, because in the end he doesn't want to kill his pupil, the offensive moves he uses have a hesitation first, because he has to psyche himself up for them. In the end, because he's not raging, he thinks more clearly and that's why he gets the win

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I personally think Clem writes really good fight scenes. Normally I just skip to the end of the fight scene to find out who won, but Clem uses his fight scenes to develop character. They are integral to his plot.

 

[Team_Wingless]

^Feel free to share. I personally like the idea that combat and action scenes in general should actually be written as suspense scenes solved by action.

I've got study-guides I've compiled containing fight-scenes from best selling fantasy books. People get a little snippy when I offer them out because they think I'm giving away other author's writing, but it's all legal under Fair Use and it's a page here and a page there that they give out anyway in previews. I just organized it better so that it's only the fight scenes. It's really helped me because I'll write an action scene, and then I'll read it side by side with the author's one and be able to know point blank if my writing holds up to industry standards or not. Regardless of whether people think combat belongs in fiction, everyone tries to do it and everyone fails miserably, so hopefully getting some resources out into the writing pool will help writers improve.

Anyone wants study-guides, PM me and I'll hook anyone up.

 

[Flare]

Some of the best character moments can be in action scenes. Somebody fighting with a shotgun says something different about them than busting a chair across somebody's teeth. How someone fights is a part of characterisation. Do they go for the first draw or dive for cover? Do they prioritise the kill or injured allies? When do they panic, or not panic? How do they react to pain? Drop their guns or reload them? Plan ahead, or not? If a key character point is a certain philosophy, does their fighting style reflect that?

Saner Sephiroth generally goes for single stroke kills. That tells you something about him. Insane Sephiroth draws out his conflicts, while still being tactically clever-he does a lot of taking high ground and causing rockfalls, making Cloud expend energy climbing and cutting up rocks, with the end result that Cloud gets tired first. That tells you something about him.

Revenge of the Sith, final battle:

Spoiler

Anakin is total aggression, because he's in a rage, Obi-Wan is mostly defensive, because in the end he doesn't want to kill his pupil, the offensive moves he uses have a hesitation first, because he has to psyche himself up for them. In the end, because he's not raging, he thinks more clearly and that's why he gets the win

I really love the way you wrote this; I never thought quite so deeply about fight scenes being so good at showing you who the character really is. Thank you for the good info, when I reread my fight scenes in my book I'll be sure to keep this in mind and see if there's anything I want to alter.

 

[Clement Rage]

^Feel free to share. I personally like the idea that combat and action scenes in general should actually be written as suspense scenes solved by action.

I've got study-guides I've compiled containing fight-scenes from best selling fantasy books. People get a little snippy when I offer them out because they think I'm giving away other author's writing, but it's all legal under Fair Use and it's a page here and a page there that they give out anyway in previews. I just organized it better so that it's only the fight scenes. It's really helped me because I'll write an action scene, and then I'll read it side by side with the author's one and be able to know point blank if my writing holds up to industry standards or not. Regardless of whether people think combat belongs in fiction, everyone tries to do it and everyone fails miserably, so hopefully getting some resources out into the writing pool will help writers improve.

Anyone wants study-guides, PM me and I'll hook anyone up.

Can you link em in the thread?

I really love the way you wrote this; I never thought quite so deeply about fight scenes being so good at showing you who the character really is. Thank you for the good info, when I reread my fight scenes in my book I'll be sure to keep this in mind and see if there's anything I want to alter.

Cheers, I hope it's some use.

Also, thanks Licorice, glad they work for you.

 

[Team_Wingless]

Can you link em in the thread?

.

Can't. Word docs. I'll get around to getting a torrent made eventually but in the meantime PM me your email and I'll send them.

 

[Flare]

So I figured this thread was the best thread for a question I could use some help on, guys.
I haven't been able to find a very clear answer yet online, so I'm hoping someone here can help out.
When a person/character has a name ending with S, like Lars, and you're putting it in context of "so-and-so's house" and whatnot, is there an apostrophe s, or just an apostrophe at the end of the name?
Like this:

Lars' house.
Lars's house.

Is there a right or wrong answer here? I've been going with Lars's, but before I publish my book, I want to be clear on this. >,<


Oh, and one more question... I'm thinking of publishing as an ebook to start. Anyone have any opinions on ebooks and if you ever read them? They seem to be very popular nowadays, so I thought it would be a good start, even though I prefer physical books (plus you can publish an ebook for free on Amazon and such, so it's cost-efficient for me right now).

 

[Starling]

If it ends with an S, you only add the apostrophe, like your first example. I don't really know anything about ebooks so I can'T help you with that.

 

[Ghost X]

1. Lars'

2. Publishing an ebook is easier than doing it through a publisher. People do read ebooks, but don't expect too much, sale-wise, unless you got a fanbase (with their own ebook readers) already . When I published an ebook a few years back, it was only a handful of family and friends who bought it. I only marketed it through my social media, and didn't get any sales that way. Fortunately that was the case, cos my writing was pretty shit, and I wouldn't want to be famous for it . Can't wait to write again.

 

[Flare]

Thanks so much you two; that really helps! Now I just have to go back to his name every time it's mentioned in the book and then take out the extra s.

And I do wonder about marketing... I don't have much experience in that area. Yet, anyway. I don't know if a physical copy or an book would make much of a difference in this area, I think I need to establish a fan base, but how can I do that when the book isn't even published?
Any advice on marketing tips?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

If you don't mind me stepping in here - as an English teacher I have studied extensively the vexed subject of the apostrophe, and in fact the rule with names or nouns that end in "s" in the singular is that either -s' or -s's is correct. Eg, both Lars' and Lars's are equally acceptable. So take your pick. I'm only saying this so that you don't have to go the trouble of deleting all the extra 's if you don't want to.

 

[Claymore]

Was just about to write that too - as it comes up often in my capacity as a proofreader and editor. Both are correct. Though I aesthetically prefer the apostrophe after the s.

Also Flare, I had a friend who self-published an e-book. It is very difficult but you just have to begin to slowly build your fanbase. Start up a facebook page, get friends and family to like and join, post teasers and inserts, then when published, start to get credible reviews displayed and up there. It is very hard work but if you stick to it you can build a media presence and start building a following that will then make the next book's response a heck of a lot easier.

 

[RedFFWolf]

I agree with the above two on this one.

I would always write it as "Lars's house"

However, if I were to write about Lars and his shop (where the following word begins with the letter 's'), I'd write "Lars' shop".

 

[Flare]

Oh so then you can use it both ways! Even better to know that, thanks again guys. Maybe that's why I was finding it stated both ways online. XD It made me a bit confused because I was under the impression only one of them was right.
So, I'll probably just keep it the way it is to save on some time of editing his name. *phew...*

And thanks Claymore for the info on helping to build a fanbase. It sounds like both time and work, but I can do it if I want my book to take off!
I was originally hoping to go through a publishing company and have them 'do the work', but after doing a lot of research I hard that publishing co.'s weren't doing much marketing for newcomers anymore and I'd be doing it mostly anyway. Not to mention, I've never been able to snag a literary agent, so what with the popularity of ebooks, I figured I'd stop writing queries, cover letters, synopsis and all that stuff and just publish it myself.

 

[Ami]

I'd personally use it as Lars' since you've already got one s and don't need the other, but I didn't know that both ways were completely acceptable.

 

[Flare]

So last night I was reading more of my novel, going through it to get the story fresh in my mind, to get a diferent perspective of it being on paper instead of a computer, and to edit it.

While reading, I've come to the conclusion that while I feel the writing is good in a few parts, it's not great. Speaking objectively, There's parts in my book that really grab me and I fly through reading it, like I can't put it down, but then there's these 'downtime' parts in my book, where I feel it's okay to set the book down.

First off, is this a problem? I feel like one should always be 'I can't put this book down it keeps grabbing at me!" when reading a good/great book. But I feel like some parts are really a 'downtime' in my book, like a break, and I guess I'm asking if that's a big deal to anyone else when reading novels?

Secondly, is there any advice you all can give on how to make 'casual' scenes, or scenes that connect one big event to the next, still just as gripping and captivating on a reader's attention?

There's important info in a lot of my downtime scenes, but it just seems more leisure than the bigger events in the book, so I'm trying to think on ways to help elevate the interest.

Any advice would be awesome

 

[Clement Rage]

Maybe have someone else look at it? It's not necessarily wrong to have slower parts of the book, too frenetic a pace can cause trouble too. But lags can be a problem too, hard to judge from here, it could be just a matter of taste.

Regarding making personal scenes resonate, some kind of subplot could work, not necessarily relating to the main one. People usually go for a romantic conflict, but you could have an ongoing bet between the parties or a darts tournament or something. (I'm not saying you need a subplot because it's hard to judge from here, but if you think you need one that could be a suggestion.

 

[Ghost X]

The story should ebb and flow with increasing intensity until the final climax. At the same time, it should all be easy to read in so far as not being clunky and being able to keep interest. That's entirely different from having places where the book can be put down. I'd say that's a part of good design. You have to keep your reader in mind. They can't be reading your book forever. They got to have "save points" so to speak, if I can use a gaming analogy . For me personally, this generally comes in the form of the end of a chapter. Whether that's a good way, I don't know .