SPOILERS Hard Mode Discussion

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
I just got to chapter 8. So far no problems.

Reno really frustrated me on my first playthrough. Here on Hard he was a freakin cakewalk mostly due to having a fully mastered elemental materia paired with lightning. That and Punisher mode and Counterstance :monster:
 

Suzaku

Pro Adventurer
Got the Platinum Trophy last night. I actually jumped ahead and defeated Pride and Joy early in my Hard Mode run because I wanted to use the accessory, and it certainly does trivialize a lot of the minor encounters and some of the bosses, but it's also pretty fun.

For most of the run I had each party member running two HP Ups, an MP Up, Healing and Revival Materia, Chakra, and some combination of Spell + Elemental / Magnify, plus First Strike / Steadfast Block / ATB Assist / ATB Stagger. I favored the high ATK + Blood Sucker weapons like Hardedge, since spells are deincentivized anyway. For bosses I would sometimes bring Poison, Barrier (often Magnified), and maybe Time, though First Strike + ATB Assist was usually sufficient. Bioga is very strong against susceptible bosses, and the Barrier spells help alleviate the need for healing a bunch, especially with some buff / debuff duration weapon upgrades.

The worst fight for me was definitely the Valkyrie, not because it was mechanically difficult, but because aerial combat really sucks. That whole chapter became really frustrating on Hard. Second worst was probably second phase of Swordipede, mainly because the AI got hit by every single attack he used.

Apart from that, I would say most of the boss fights are greatly improved by the heightened difficulty. It really emphasizes the unique mechanics of each fight, where in normal mode you tend to be able to brute force everything.

Hellhouse, Jenova Dreamweaver, and Rufus stand out as especially fun, and the Arsenal is probably the most interactive, with its multiple phases, line of sight mechanics, and the interrupt primary fire twice to make Red XIII inflict a stagger thing.

Sephiroth was fun but fair, but generally didn't feel too different from the first run. It was kind of frustrating that his Masamune Cometh ability, I think it was called, tended to make him immune when I triggered Limit Breaks. The way Limits function with phase changes is also kind of annoying, generally.

Bahamut + Ifrit in the Simulator was definitely the biggest challenge, but felt suitably rewarding, especially doing it early so I could use Gotterdamerung for nearly the full run.
 

Lex

Administrator
Got my platinum trophy tonight after beating the game on Hard.

I'll agree with the majority of other posters re: Sephiroth being the right level of challenging, it totally was. Also I'm mad at the devs for that Jenova ability where it rains and eats your MP, that's dirty AF considering you've then got another two bosses to contend with (that can be fairly prolonged, particularly The Arsenal) and you can't regenerate MP! Watch out for that one folks.
 

Lex

Administrator
Yeah that's the one. I was very close to failing it at the end. The game deeply wants you to use magic attack spells on that boss in later phases but it just feels wrong to waste MP on them considering the OHKO moves it has, forcing you to res or Curaga someone back from the brink. Pure horror tbh
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
i had to look up where to get that (i remember seeing sites mention an accessory called 神々の黄昏 and i learnt that's what gotterdammerung meant from xenosaga so finally, a name i can work out), and i'm actually excited to see this boss return in some form? i might skip to that chapter just to do it
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
I waited to summon Shiva until the last phase, so that made my life easier I think. Aerith and Tifa died during the final phase (Aerith had revive) so it was this comedic stand off of Cloud running in circles for like 5 minutes.
 
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Suzaku

Pro Adventurer
Yeah that's the one. I was very close to failing it at the end. The game deeply wants you to use magic attack spells on that boss in later phases but it just feels wrong to waste MP on them considering the OHKO moves it has, forcing you to res or Curaga someone back from the brink. Pure horror tbh
Personally I didn't find Arsenal that tough if you understand how the mechanics work.

You can avoid most of the damage he pumps out by hiding behind the pillars during the first phase, and you really only need to use spells to heal / raise. You can take the early phases of the fight pretty slow since his damage output isn't that severe. Just block when he uses homing lasers and stay behind cover when you aren't interrupting his Primary Fire.

When it's using Primary Fire, have Barret use Focused Shot or Aerith use two Spirit Drains to disable the gun. It will then use Primary Fire again; repeat the process and Red XIII will use Stardust Ray (I think it was anyway) to pressure/stagger the boss/barriers. Get the barriers down and it'll start moving around and using Charge, which is pretty easy to avoid.

Essentially repeat the process from there. When he targets a character with Particle Beam (not sure of name), hide them behind a piece of debris while the other works on attacking. You can also continue mashing attack in cover to build ATB even if you aren't hitting him. After the cover is all destroyed Particle Beam will guaranteed kill the targeted character unless they have Reprieve. Just Curaga or Arise them depending on which happens.

The only tricky part is the final phase, where he traps you between flame walls and aims a big Particle Beam at your party. The first one can be avoided with one last piece of debris, however the next one will kill you if you don't finish him off in time. Fill your ATB as quickly as possible and use Maximum Fury / Ray of Judgment to finish him off. It took me I think three Maximum Furies and two Rays of Judgment, but it worked. You might also save your summon / LB for the final phase.

It will help if you bring your highest ATK weapons, and you don't need to use elemental materia since she shifts resistances during the fight.


I've heard people having trouble with Hell House too, but I thought it wasn't too bad. Main advice, have Aerith cast Bioga with a strong MATK weapon that has 10% debuff duration. Otherwise, try and keep Cloud flanking the house to avoid getting sucked in by Hospitality, Triple Slash the tonberries it summons (they have low HP), and use Arcane Ward to double cast whatever element it is currently weak too. Again, don't bring an elemental weapon because its resistances shift. The Sweepers (or Cutters? I forget) it brings in towards the end can be burned down pretty quick.


Also, if you're really struggling at any point, you can try and jump ahead to Chapter 17 and finish up the VR challenges to get Gotterdamerung.


Main advice I have for the Top Secrets fight: Bring Lighting + Elemental on Cloud's weapon (for Leviathan and Pride and Joy), put Fire + Elemental on Aerith's armor (absorb Ifrit's attacks during the Bahamut fight). Bring Fire spells on all three party members to deal with Shiva effectively. Definitely bring two HP Ups and one MP Up for each party member. Give Aerith Magnify + Barrier. Have everyone equipped with Healing + Revival Materia. Give everyone else either Chakra, or give Cloud and Tifa Chakra and Aerith Prayer. For the remaining slots, ATB Assist, ATB Stagger, Steadfast Block, Skill Master, etc. on party members of choice. First Strike isn't that useful in prolonged fights since it's a one-time benefit. Might consider bringing Ice so you can nuke down Ifrit, but I didn't find it necessary. You may want to bring Headbands so Shiva doesn't sleep you, but it's not mandatory.

Shiva is a pain in the ass, try to nuke her down with Fire/Fira using Arcane Ward, then try and time your ATB so you can maximize damage during Stagger. Maintain Manaward (don't need physical reductions, so don't use Barrier or Manawall) and heal as needed. Try and avoid Icicle Impact and when she does the big ice block drops, you have to run to avoid those or die. The annoying thing about this fight is her Ice Familiars. She "consumes" them to absorb fire attacks or to bolster her own attacks. When she runs out, hit her with Fire. I'm pretty sure you can just spam weak fire spells to eat them up quickly, but depending on RNG it seems that sometimes the AI will just keep reapplying them, in which case you might want to just retry the fight. You can interrupt Diamond Dust by staggering her, but if the timing isn't good for that, just Manaward and heal up before and after.

Fat Chocobo is easy, pretty much identical to the first fight with him. Maintain physical mitigation with Barrier, then basically just work him over to build his stagger, then unleash everything you can on him. I like to use Chi Trap since he just sits in it. When he uses Wark Wark and starts rolling around, just hold block. And roll out of the way of Boom. Very easy to manage. For the adds, just spam Triple Slash to quickly kill them.

Leviathan is pretty much a pushover. For this one you might want to use Manawall, though his physical attacks aren't too common or powerful so Manaward should be sufficient. Get up close, pile on damage as much as you can, won't be long before he summons the water spouts and starts flying around. You can basically use this phase to replenish MP and just whittle him down. Avoid the spouts, use chakra/prayer to keep up, maybe have Aerith lob Spirit Drain, basically just wait for him to fly low to the ground and then work on staggering him. Deal with Tidal Wave the same way you dealt with Diamond Dust, either Stagger or Manaward + Heal.

Bahamut is without a doubt the hardest part of the fight. Counterstance is especially good since he does quite a bit of melee, just be aware that Umbral Frenzy can't be blocked or countered, or even reliably dodged. Most of his attacks are pretty hard to avoid, frankly. Maintain Manawall (both phys and mag mitigation), you probably want to try and get Regen up to help take pressure off healing, too, but it's not mandatory. Also nice to have Aerith setup a Fleeting Familiar on this one, since it lasts such a long time anyway and helps a fair bit. Work his stagger gauge, especially when he stands still to countdown; Chi Trap is great when he's stationary. When the countdown is done you want to be ready for Mega Flare, so make sure you have ATB to spare so you can heal, Manaward, and re-heal.

At 50% he summons Ifrit. It may help to let him cast the first Mega Flare before you take him down to 50% so you don't have to deal with Ifrit at the same time, but it's still manageable if you don't. When Ifrit appears, focus entirely on him and bring him down ASAP. He doesn't have a ton of health and staggers pretty quickly from Focused Thrusts / Blizzaga / Shiva. After Ifrit is gone, the rest of the fight is just more of the same, so rinse and repeat and you'll win.

Pride and Joy (aka Proud Clod) is pretty much a victory lap. Stay behind it as much as possible, avoid its heavily telegraphed area attacks, damage its arm until it lets go of party members it catches, or be ready to revive them when it kills them. There really isn't much more to it than that.
 
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Cannon_Fodder

Pro Adventurer
If I remember right, Lustrous Shield even blocks the Arsenal's primary fire, so that might be another option. If I'm remembering wrong and this gets someone blasted, I apologize!

Also, to my shame, I never knew you could still hit his gun while his barrier was up. So I've always just slowly chipped away at the little drones before attacking the boss itself.

I kinda wish you could just fight a boss without doing the full level first. I wanna experiment with new tactics but it's not worth all the time to get to certain bosses.
 

Suzaku

Pro Adventurer
If I remember right, Lustrous Shield even blocks the Arsenal's primary fire, so that might be another option. If I'm remembering wrong and this gets someone blasted, I apologize!

Also, to my shame, I never knew you could still hit his gun while his barrier was up. So I've always just slowly chipped away at the little drones before attacking the boss itself.

I kinda wish you could just fight a boss without doing the full level first. I wanna experiment with new tactics but it's not worth all the time to get to certain bosses.
This game would definitely benefit from a boss rush mode.
 

Sasseli

~*:Newbie:*~
Opening all those treasure chests with items in them... "Hello item, nice to have you, you'd be so valuable if only I could use you..."
Picking up Materia... "Hello 1234567th orb of ice materia. You're not good for anything, but at least I can use you!"
What a cruel world. :okay:
 
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Maidenofwar

They/Them
Hell House is ... Yeeahh no.

Among the many variables is that the summon bar seem to disappear if you take too long so you're looking for your summon in the final stage of the fight like what.
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
I really want to know the thinking with Hell House. The hard version is just SO much harder than any of the bosses surrounding it, it is effectively the game's super boss. Why? I love it so much, but why?
 

Maidenofwar

They/Them
Also top WTF moments-

*Getting three way sandwiched between a Cutter, a Sweeper, and Hell House, with bad camera angles, what a stunlock.

*Getting knocked unconscious before limit break takes effect while you're using it i.e Planet Protection.

*Trying not to get squished by Hell Bound only for the AI to position themselves so they get squished when you do and it's a party wipe and you're sitting there like I didn't even see you what were you doing under there!?

Anyway ate some cereal, time to try again, attempt I lost count ?
 

Lulcielid

Eyes of the Lord
AKA
Lulcy
Hellhouse tip: Use poison (bioga) since Hellhouse is not inmune to that, it's excellent to bypass its god mode (white shield) and deals about 100ish damage per season and last for a good while. Using that can save you a lot of MP for healing & revival. The only time I used offensive spell was to free one of the party members that's caught inside HH and againts the two mechas in the last phase.

Since MP is a precious resource in hard mode, casting the level 1 version offensive spells is far more effective than the higher tiers, more like than not you'll need to cast one lv1 spells to put foes under preassure state (if they're weak to that element) and from there build stagger.
 
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