ForceStealer
Double Growth
This is what I would like.
SPOILERS Hard Mode Discussion
- Thread starter Lex
- Start date
This is what I would like.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
I got Aerith's L6 weapon upgrades! ? yasss! Reprieve seems to be on most of her weapons I like this. The trip through the Drum to get to Swordipede was something but triumph was somehow getting past the three Sledgeworm enemies with Cloud and Barret, Cloud at 1 HP and Barrett on low health before the fight, after much retries I was finally able to get them in good condition and win the fight. Swordipede was kind of relaxing by comparison especially since Aerith had the Enemy Skill materia on ?
Cannon_Fodder
Pro Adventurer
Got the platinum and finished the Play Log earlier, with a total of around 95 hours of play time (thank you quarantine and a lack of sleep!) Of all the Chapter 18 bosses on hard, I had the most fun with Motorball 
I think the lead up to Motorball is actually way harder than the fight itself (especially the stage with the two SOLDIERs and the helicopter), but luckily restarting a checkpoint gives you full health so it's not a pain to redo things if you die. Once I figured out a better way of avoiding Motorball's machine guns he went down easily enough.
I still think Whisper Harbinger is a dumb fight. Kinda showcases a lot of the worst aspects of the battle system (camera issues with multiple enemies, transition phases interrupting attacks) to create something that is mildly annoying and kinda repetitive. Luckily it wasn't hard to add to the frustration.
Finally, Sephiroth himself was relentless and tough, which is good, but I also felt like I was fighting the game a bit this time which wasn't. Between him and the harbinger, I think I had 4 limit breaks whiff? The cinematic changes in this fight are awesome (especially the first time) but they need to think of a solution to stop the player from feeling robbed when they pop a big move and Sephiroth just cutscenes out of it. In addition to that general problem, the Sephiroth fight kinda suffers from having your party be random. I had Aerith come to help me first, but she has no defenses against Sephiroth's attacks (and he resists magic) so she just gave me someone to babysit which wasn't very helpful.
I definitely feel like I needed a new strategy for Sephiroth on hard, but since I managed to beat him, I don't think I'll go back and figure out what that strategy is, haha. Especially since that would mean slogging through Whisper Harbinger first.
I think the lead up to Motorball is actually way harder than the fight itself (especially the stage with the two SOLDIERs and the helicopter), but luckily restarting a checkpoint gives you full health so it's not a pain to redo things if you die. Once I figured out a better way of avoiding Motorball's machine guns he went down easily enough.
I still think Whisper Harbinger is a dumb fight. Kinda showcases a lot of the worst aspects of the battle system (camera issues with multiple enemies, transition phases interrupting attacks) to create something that is mildly annoying and kinda repetitive. Luckily it wasn't hard to add to the frustration.
Finally, Sephiroth himself was relentless and tough, which is good, but I also felt like I was fighting the game a bit this time which wasn't. Between him and the harbinger, I think I had 4 limit breaks whiff? The cinematic changes in this fight are awesome (especially the first time) but they need to think of a solution to stop the player from feeling robbed when they pop a big move and Sephiroth just cutscenes out of it. In addition to that general problem, the Sephiroth fight kinda suffers from having your party be random. I had Aerith come to help me first, but she has no defenses against Sephiroth's attacks (and he resists magic) so she just gave me someone to babysit which wasn't very helpful.
I definitely feel like I needed a new strategy for Sephiroth on hard, but since I managed to beat him, I don't think I'll go back and figure out what that strategy is, haha. Especially since that would mean slogging through Whisper Harbinger first.
Claymore
3x3 Eyes
Apparently it's based on the affection mechanics that will determine who your immediate back-up in that fight is. So it's just a simple case of loading them up properly before going into the Harbinger fight once you know who you've been leaning towards during your playthrough.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
It's affection values and who lands the finishing blow on Whisper Harbinger other than Cloud. So if Aerith is your highest affection character and Tifa is second... But through magic Tifa kills Harninger, Tifa appears first, then Aerith.
Cannon_Fodder
Pro Adventurer
Interesting if that's the case, because in my last run I went out of my way to avoid any affection for Tifa (to get the other resolution scenes) and she was the second person to help with Sephiroth. She may have landed the final blow on Harbinger though, so maybe that's enough?
Claymore
3x3 Eyes
Definitely needs some further investigation to find out the exact circumstances. In my Hard Mode playthrough, I didn't lean towards Aerith or Tifa, so got Barret's resolution, and he turned up first in the Sephiroth fight despite being obviously sidelined for the Harbinger battle.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
.... What?
LOL wtf that makes no sense. Are you sure they didn't go back to a chapter and inadvertently change the affection tally? Cause so far it's always been a balance of affection and the final blow from the penultimate boss. That's just. Wow. Totally mysterious.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
He couldn't go back, it was his first run in normal. When I told him he could have had Aerith, he ranted because "it would have been much easier" according to him lol.
Then again at the rest.era forums I did read that it was points based against Harbinger, and that would make sense that the game gauges who you manipulate the best to get them as your team mates.
Then again at the rest.era forums I did read that it was points based against Harbinger, and that would make sense that the game gauges who you manipulate the best to get them as your team mates.
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
Finished all chapters and extra bosses in hard mode (and got the platinum trophy in the process).
In general I'm not a fan of making combat hard by stripping mechaniques from the player, item usage in this case, I wish at least they allowed us to use the offensive items such as bombs & granades (speaking of which, the game could have had more of that kind of stuff). Good hard difficulty will force and train the players in making smarter use of ALL the game mechaniques and system, not some of them only.
Hard mode also hidligths the problem of enemy attacks interrupting your abilities/spell animations (and wasting your MP in the case of spells), taking damage (while not interrupting the attacks) should be enough punishment to player. It also shows how unfair the system is, enemies normal attacks can interrupt your spell animation and some of your abilities but when you attack them during theirs, they can withstand it for several attacks, the game should make it work equally for both player and enemy in either direction (interrupting or not interrupting).
The hardest fight was probably Sephiroth, mainly because my party was pretty drained during the Whispers boss rush.
The superboss was surprisingly easy, doesn't have any nasty AoE attack, all its moves are very telegraphed, and it's deadliest move is very avoidable, Bahamut was tougher (even though I managed to beat it on first try, seconds before it had the chance to Megaflare, with a combination of Cloud and Tifa's Limit Break 2).
In general I'm not a fan of making combat hard by stripping mechaniques from the player, item usage in this case, I wish at least they allowed us to use the offensive items such as bombs & granades (speaking of which, the game could have had more of that kind of stuff). Good hard difficulty will force and train the players in making smarter use of ALL the game mechaniques and system, not some of them only.
Hard mode also hidligths the problem of enemy attacks interrupting your abilities/spell animations (and wasting your MP in the case of spells), taking damage (while not interrupting the attacks) should be enough punishment to player. It also shows how unfair the system is, enemies normal attacks can interrupt your spell animation and some of your abilities but when you attack them during theirs, they can withstand it for several attacks, the game should make it work equally for both player and enemy in either direction (interrupting or not interrupting).
The hardest fight was probably Sephiroth, mainly because my party was pretty drained during the Whispers boss rush.
The superboss was surprisingly easy, doesn't have any nasty AoE attack, all its moves are very telegraphed, and it's deadliest move is very avoidable, Bahamut was tougher (even though I managed to beat it on first try, seconds before it had the chance to Megaflare, with a combination of Cloud and Tifa's Limit Break 2).
Cannon_Fodder
Pro Adventurer
Agreed that just taking out an entire mechanic isn't the best way to do a good hard mode. I was thinking about this the other day, and I'd even be okay with heavy restrictions on item use. Something like:
- no items outside of battle
- must have item master materia equipped to use items in battle
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
I dunno, a lot of challenge quests and hard modes in other games essentially do restrict an entire mechanic.
It's common in competitive gaming circles and other games have done such restrictions in terms of limiting the use of a specific mechanic, or sealing it completely.
I don't think losing items is a design flaw. It's a choice. A direction.
I agree the egregious flaw is the way bosses can cheese you out of your resources or the efficacy of your abilities. That's far more unfair than the premise of a hard mode.. Being hard. It's a challenge, and challenges can be framed arbitrarily and liberally. It only matters if the rule is consistent and fairly applied to the contest.
Getting stunned out of your spell animation and losing MP because the boss went nuts, meanwhile absolutely nothing can be done to interrupt or avoid a boss throwing AoEs confetti is just.. LOL that's hell. Dying mid-limit break is pretty damn embarrassing and infuriating, and would be funny if it weren't essentially a death sentence.
It's common in competitive gaming circles and other games have done such restrictions in terms of limiting the use of a specific mechanic, or sealing it completely.
I don't think losing items is a design flaw. It's a choice. A direction.
I agree the egregious flaw is the way bosses can cheese you out of your resources or the efficacy of your abilities. That's far more unfair than the premise of a hard mode.. Being hard. It's a challenge, and challenges can be framed arbitrarily and liberally. It only matters if the rule is consistent and fairly applied to the contest.
Getting stunned out of your spell animation and losing MP because the boss went nuts, meanwhile absolutely nothing can be done to interrupt or avoid a boss throwing AoEs confetti is just.. LOL that's hell. Dying mid-limit break is pretty damn embarrassing and infuriating, and would be funny if it weren't essentially a death sentence.
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
is that one of the materia you can get from chadley? it's a purple one that lets you dodge while blocking and if you hit the enemy it does damage, i think it's from the 200% stagger battle report?
i have tried a bit of hard mode and i've got to admit, i'm not enjoying it too much. i thought no items would just be in battle, not everywhere. since it doesn't have a chakra walk type ability to restore mp as you walk, benches and inns don't restore it, you only get one mp absorb materia.
also enemies seem to hit insanely hard. idk if it's because i tried it on later chapters (14) but yeah, it's feeling like it's going to be a slog.
i have tried a bit of hard mode and i've got to admit, i'm not enjoying it too much. i thought no items would just be in battle, not everywhere. since it doesn't have a chakra walk type ability to restore mp as you walk, benches and inns don't restore it, you only get one mp absorb materia.
also enemies seem to hit insanely hard. idk if it's because i tried it on later chapters (14) but yeah, it's feeling like it's going to be a slog.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Yes, that's the Parry materia.
You can recover MP by breaking crates and finding mako shards. That's your only way of getting MP back, and if you know how to re-spawn crates by going from zone-to-zone, you can replenish your MP to an extent. Depending on the chapter and area.
Steadfast Block mastered is a must-have for Hard Mode. The minute I got it, I never took it off and it saved me so much. It's one of the most important materia in the game.
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
is this the purple materia that lowers damage taken when blocking?
also must i now learn how to block
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
thankfully i used my trip to chapter 14, while looking for a missing music disc, to also level up most of my materia in the coliseum
i kind of wish i had another ranged/all materia though, can you get another one of those somewhere
i kind of wish i had another ranged/all materia though, can you get another one of those somewhere
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Cannon_Fodder
Pro Adventurer
I found the best way to manage MP was to use weapons that reduce spell costs and/or increase MP recovery in battle. You can gain quite a bit by just using regular attacks and abilities for a bit. Aerith's Silver Staff is amazing for this; I went into the Jenova fight with low MP and came out with it full.
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
force, you had me going there, only to end in disappointment
ultima786
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- ultima
Anyone?