Highlights from Famitsu
- Thread starter Purple
- Start date
- AKA
- X
I am very curious how people feel about generally expanded scenarios that are completely new (since this game is 2 BluRay discs because of it), and expanded scenarios that involve things that were initially established by the Compilation. Is there a fundamental difference between one of those things vs. the other? When is it something you don't like vs. something that you do? Is it all about where it's drawing the inspiration from, what's taking place, when it was conceived, etc.
X
X
- AKA
- Ite
My thinking is “if it’s good, it’s good.” And Compilation stuff doesn’t have a track record of being good (subject to personal taste, obvs). The potential of something behind a mystery door has more potential than something shackled to something we don’t like.
Bringing SW into it, The Clone Wars show is, essentially, more prequel shit, but was so good it made me like the prequels (at least, when I’m not watching the actual films and gagging). That’s an example of “if it’s good it’s good.” Clone Wars had more work to do to impress me than Force Awakens, because I’m bringing my negative feelings about the prequels with me to the new content.
I mean, it’s... possible... to ‘expand and deepen’ Compilation ideas instead of further obfuscating FF7 proper, but it’s unlikely. I doubt even the sunken cost fallacy could sway me. If I trusted Square-Enix to make Compilation-derived-content that is SO good that I no longer feel negative about the shitty Compilation thing it’s drawing from, I wouldn’t be nervous. I don’t trust them in that way. I don’t know what the writers were thinking when they drummed up that stuff and I’d rather see something new.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Genesis has arguably become the True Calamity. Heaven's Loveless's dark harbinger.
As long as he exists, thefandom Planet will never be able to fully heal itself...
....
LOL no but seriously it's extremely unlikely he's coming back. There's a reason they flipped that secret ending shit in DC. He's pretty much done.
I'll tell you what I will bank money on seeing returning. Here's a hint.
It starts with an M, ends with an A and it gives you a gift that nobody can really say.
As long as he exists, the
....
LOL no but seriously it's extremely unlikely he's coming back. There's a reason they flipped that secret ending shit in DC. He's pretty much done.
I'll tell you what I will bank money on seeing returning. Here's a hint.
It starts with an M, ends with an A and it gives you a gift that nobody can really say.
- AKA
- Ite
There's a reason they flipped that secret ending shit in DC. He's pretty much done.
Flipped the wha? What are you referencing? Genesis first appeared in the DoC secret ending... have they removed it from later releases?
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Originally the secret ending pretty obviously telegraphed that Genesis would be the new threat to the planet and set him up as the new villain. A successor to Sephiroth now that he's been slain.
They 180'd that shit and are now saying Genesis is not a threat, regained his honor as SOLDIER, and is now a force of good. So fuck any chance of seeing him as a villain. In fact, fuck any chance of seeing him at all. That's the gist of it.
I think they low-key decided to end his arc with CC, with a subversion of expected villainy. Which is fine by me. He's great as Zack's antagonist and doesn't need to be a faux-Sephiroth any of longer.
I think it's been made pretty clear so far that they are focused on remaking and expanding Final Fantasy VII, not the Compilation. That's not to say no references will be made at all, but it seems pretty obvious that that is not their focus.
Besides, the only Compilation title that Nomura had any real involvement with is Advent Children, I highly doubt he has any attachment to the others.
Besides, the only Compilation title that Nomura had any real involvement with is Advent Children, I highly doubt he has any attachment to the others.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Also, and this point should dispelga any fears of Genesis showing up..
Square is not about to pay a billion dollars again to regain the rights of using Gackt's likeness in another title. That's done. They are not about to go down that rabbit hole again.
My prediction is aside from the unified continuity of aesthetics, designs and battle style, at most you'll find some Compilation locations with hidden quests and/or items, maybe the return of a superboss that was seen once in a previous title. Vincent's limit break forms might get redesigned to match the aesthetic he previously had, and Bahamut Tremor and Bahamut Fury might be new summons included.
Things like that, that expand and flesh out the FFVII setting but nothing that literally has no place within the plot.
Square is not about to pay a billion dollars again to regain the rights of using Gackt's likeness in another title. That's done. They are not about to go down that rabbit hole again.
My prediction is aside from the unified continuity of aesthetics, designs and battle style, at most you'll find some Compilation locations with hidden quests and/or items, maybe the return of a superboss that was seen once in a previous title. Vincent's limit break forms might get redesigned to match the aesthetic he previously had, and Bahamut Tremor and Bahamut Fury might be new summons included.
Things like that, that expand and flesh out the FFVII setting but nothing that literally has no place within the plot.
- AKA
- TresDias
Ehh, they never said he's "a force for good." They said he sealed himself away "in order to prepare for a crisis that threatens the world." Essentially like a Weapon.
That could very much be a bad thing, seeing as a) the Weapons have historically proven to be very bad for humanity even though they exist to protect the planet; b) Jade Weapon woke up and came after the Turks for destroying Zirconiade, even though they had to destroy the summon to save humanity; c) Genesis woke up right after Vincent saved the world -- i.e. preserved its capacity to be a hospitable place for humanity; and d) humankind has already been "deemed evil by the planet."
Neither CC's ending nor DC's bonus ending offer anything that compels me to believe Genesis is going to be any less of a sycophant and zealot than before. He's seemingly traded his wackass obsession with an ambiguously defined deity of dubious existence for an obsession with a somewhat more defined deity who has been described as like a scared child -- one that sees humanity as threatening, and tends to send powerful living weapons after stuff that it finds threatening.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Well, there's the whole "regained his SOLDIER pride" thing.
I mean, if he's regained such a thing, and Zack was the one that helped him gain that, it sounds like its a repudiation of his previous mad obsession and violence. Why else place emphasis on Zack being the one to save Genesis and get him back on the path of being a SOLIDER with pride, and no longer a "monster?"
And then there's this whole thing:
So, given the complete 180 of Genesis's ominous, and dangerous appearance that would normally herald, "an ominous being... has been released onto the world," it looks like they're saying it's not that way. Especially since there's nothing really coming after DC or with him in the first place. It seems like a neat and effective way to just sorta... Close the book on him and move on. I really don't think they have any real intention of drawing out Genesis any further than where he's been. It'd be really hard, logistically and in terms of FFVII's story.
I mean, if he's regained such a thing, and Zack was the one that helped him gain that, it sounds like its a repudiation of his previous mad obsession and violence. Why else place emphasis on Zack being the one to save Genesis and get him back on the path of being a SOLIDER with pride, and no longer a "monster?"
And then there's this whole thing:
So, given the complete 180 of Genesis's ominous, and dangerous appearance that would normally herald, "an ominous being... has been released onto the world," it looks like they're saying it's not that way. Especially since there's nothing really coming after DC or with him in the first place. It seems like a neat and effective way to just sorta... Close the book on him and move on. I really don't think they have any real intention of drawing out Genesis any further than where he's been. It'd be really hard, logistically and in terms of FFVII's story.
Cannon_Fodder
Pro Adventurer
As Mr. Ite said, I prefer something new that might be really good compared to something from the Compilation that I know I don't like. Specifically, a lot of my problems come from the scope of the Compilation. I get that they're all self-contained stories, and as such all of them need an antagonist or threat for the player to fight against. But do all of these threats in all of these games need to endanger the planet? I think it's exhausting and boring to find out that the Turks took out a world-killer summon, that Zack fought a super-SOLDIER in the same vein as Sephiroth, and that Vincent fought against an army of super-SOLDIERs that wanted to summon a super-WEAPON.I am very curious how people feel about generally expanded scenarios that are completely new (since this game is 2 BluRay discs because of it), and expanded scenarios that involve things that were initially established by the Compilation. Is there a fundamental difference between one of those things vs. the other? When is it something you don't like vs. something that you do? Is it all about where it's drawing the inspiration from, what's taking place, when it was conceived, etc.
X
So, by extension, I automatically have more hope for new scenes in the Remake. We already have our planet-killing threats; Shinra and Sephiroth. That gives the new scenes the chance to be quiet and personal or funny and endearing. I really don't want higher stakes, they're high enough already. What I want is a chance to enjoy the world and the characters that I still care about.
Edit: I should add that I agree they're likely not going to add the bad guys from the Compilation, I was just trying to explain why a lot of elements didn't gel with me. I hope this makes sense haha.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
But the same people doing the new stuff, were the people doing the Compilation stuff.
I mean, does a new plot thread by any other name, smell as sweet?
If anything, I think what we've seen is how the Compilation was an experimental project from the start for these guys. There were many concepts and ideas the creators introduced and got to play with. Some ideas worked, and some didn't. With the ideas that worked, they fleshed them out and kept. With others, they were just let go. It all was part of the project of keeping FFVII going and it's what gave us the Remake today. The success and interest that each entry made was what allowed FFVII to be essentially reborn.
Obviously, as you said, the stories had to have an antagonist which fit the bill and actually felt like a threat given the game's context. And it makes sense for them to not carry over or bleed into other stories or rather, the main story of FFVII. They're self-contained and in the end, don't really take away from FFVII or matter in the grand scheme of things.
The BC Turks are retired, DG's buried under ground, and Genesis is sleep in a fucking cave where he belongs.
So yeah.
I mean, does a new plot thread by any other name, smell as sweet?
If anything, I think what we've seen is how the Compilation was an experimental project from the start for these guys. There were many concepts and ideas the creators introduced and got to play with. Some ideas worked, and some didn't. With the ideas that worked, they fleshed them out and kept. With others, they were just let go. It all was part of the project of keeping FFVII going and it's what gave us the Remake today. The success and interest that each entry made was what allowed FFVII to be essentially reborn.
Obviously, as you said, the stories had to have an antagonist which fit the bill and actually felt like a threat given the game's context. And it makes sense for them to not carry over or bleed into other stories or rather, the main story of FFVII. They're self-contained and in the end, don't really take away from FFVII or matter in the grand scheme of things.
The BC Turks are retired, DG's buried under ground, and Genesis is sleep in a fucking cave where he belongs.
So yeah.
NeithOF
Rookie Adventurer
- AKA
- Nathan
I think SE knows that the most hated element of the compilation is Genesis/Gackt so they'd be dumb to bring him back in the remake.
My prediction is that they'll bring over backstory elements from BC in order to expand the Turks and Avalanche, backstory elements from DoC in order to expand Vincent, Jenova etc and backstory elements from Crisis Core in order to add more Zack scenes and add Buster Sword's backstory.
At least that's what i am hoping for. In my opinion, not everything from the compilation was bad, it had lots of interesting ideas and added much needed lore and had some interesting characters, it's just that the execution was kinda iffy.
My prediction is that they'll bring over backstory elements from BC in order to expand the Turks and Avalanche, backstory elements from DoC in order to expand Vincent, Jenova etc and backstory elements from Crisis Core in order to add more Zack scenes and add Buster Sword's backstory.
At least that's what i am hoping for. In my opinion, not everything from the compilation was bad, it had lots of interesting ideas and added much needed lore and had some interesting characters, it's just that the execution was kinda iffy.
Tashasaurous
Tash for Short
- AKA
- Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
Not only that, having Sephiroth as the same main villain in each new title over and over again can get tiresome after a while.
Cannon_Fodder
Pro Adventurer
I don't really see how you can say they fleshed out the ideas that worked and let the bad ones go. There wasn't a ton of overlap in the Compilation (from what I remember anyway), so it's like they came up with new ideas each time. I never got the sense that they saw particular ideas as better than others, outside of Zack's popularity. You are very right though in that the Compilation kept interest in FFVII going, and a lot of it was pretty fun.But the same people doing the new stuff, were the people doing the Compilation stuff.
I mean, does a new plot thread by any other name, smell as sweet?
If anything, I think what we've seen is how the Compilation was an experimental project from the start for these guys. There were many concepts and ideas the creators introduced and got to play with. Some ideas worked, and some didn't. With the ideas that worked, they fleshed them out and kept. With others, they were just let go. It all was part of the project of keeping FFVII going and it's what gave us the Remake today. The success and interest that each entry made was what allowed FFVII to be essentially reborn.
Obviously, as you said, the stories had to have an antagonist which fit the bill and actually felt like a threat given the game's context. And it makes sense for them to not carry over or bleed into other stories or rather, the main story of FFVII. They're self-contained and in the end, don't really take away from FFVII or matter in the grand scheme of things.
The BC Turks are retired, DG's buried under ground, and Genesis is sleep in a fucking cave where he belongs.
So yeah.
As far as not mattering in the grand scheme of things, that's actually part of my problem. If the goal of these games is to not take away from the main game or matter, why set the stakes so high? Why not tell a more personal story, rather than another end of the world scenario that is actually so secret that no one cares?
That's why the solution is to tell the kind of story that doesn't need Sephiroth as a villain either, haha. Maybe some kind of human conflict--like a war--instead.
Tashasaurous
Tash for Short
- AKA
- Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
Or have a villain that doesn't involve destroying the world and act on having revenge and/or kidnapping situation. Like say...if Heidegger and Scarlet survived the explosion of their stupid Potato machine Proud Clod and have formed their own Organization to claim the remains of the ShinRa Company as their own as well as plot their revenge on Cloud's group while attempting to kill anyone who are the supports/allies of both ShinRa and/or Cloud and his friends. Doesn't have to have them plot in destroying the world.
In both Compilation added sense as well as maybe a Remake-exclusive sequel sense.
FFShinra
Sharp Shinra Shill
Totally down with this as an actual post script game/episode of the remake.
Tashasaurous
Tash for Short
- AKA
- Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
Maybe, but if that really happened, they probably want to extend it to make it a new full game rather than a DLC for the Remake. But we won't know until the Remake is fully finished and even Square's got no idea how many episodes the game will have. I'm still gonna stick with my guess in it being a trilogy, or even four episodes.
- AKA
- TresDias
All of that is very vague. Was it the fact alone of being defeated by Zack that did this -- or was it that Zack pummeled him within an inch of his life, making it possible for Minerva to appear to him and communicate that he hadn't yet fulfilled an objective worthy of his "goddess"? It seems more to be the latter.
And speaking of vague, what even is this "SOLDIER pride," particularly where Genesis is concerned? =P
Given the context we're discussing all this in, normally positive sounding words and phrases like "pride" and "protecting the planet" can't be taken at face value. Remember how Sephiroth was a "hero"?
Genesis exists now to protect the planet, but that doesn't mean he isn't a threat to the world we care about.
Mako said:
They said "one could" interpret it a different way, not necessarily that they should. They were also plenty vague in who or what does need to see Genesis's awakening as ominous given their choice of words about whether an ominous being "has been released onto the world."
Any time I see a reference to "the world" or "the planet" in the context of FFVII, I'm asking myself whether there is wordplay at work -- i.e. are we talking about the Lifestream or human civilization?
Again, Genesis is awake now to protect the planet from a perceived threat -- and what seems to have triggered his awakening is Vincent destroying Omega. If the Turks got a Weapon sicced on them, circumstances be damned, for destroying Zirconiade since it's part of the planet's natural ecology, what has Vincent called down on humanity's ass for destroying the Weapon that literally serves as the planet's lifeboat when the physical substance constituting the planet has been abandoned?
What's good for the planet isn't necessarily what's good for humanity, and vice versa. When Genesis told Weiss they have a lot of work to do, he probably didn't mean they have to plan a world tour of congratulating humanity on being awesome.
After all these years as a Final Fantasy fan, you know better than to trust deities. =P
Mako said:
They didn't know that at the time they were giving interviews about CC.
Tashasaurous
Tash for Short
- AKA
- Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
Right, and knowing Genesis, he's really gone completely nuts by now, calling Weiss his "brother" and if the Goddess thing has really gotten into his head after the four years of slumber in a water ball, he's really into Loveless now.
After all, he created his own version of the mysterious fifth act, "Even if the morrow is barren of promises,
Nothing shall forestall my return,
To become the dew that quenches the land,
To spare the sands, the seas, the skies,
I offer thee this silent sacrifice."
Given the situation, his idea of protecting the Planet may be doing what Fuhito attempted to do with Zirconiade in Before Crisis, only Genesis IS a Weapon/Summon now, and has Weiss's corpse by his side.
The BC Turks are retired, DG's buried under ground, and Genesis is sleep in a fucking cave where he belongs.
This. As I've been saying from the beginning, even if the Compilation were totally in play, we still shouldn't see any of it. It was the Compilation's job to fit FF7, not the other way around. And all those games provided, however sloppily, for why we didn't see or hear from those elements when we played the original.