Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (gameplay/combat)

hian

Purist
I'm kind of hoping for an implementation of costume options. Mostly if the Tifa-somersault-panty-shots are going to be too much... I hate her Rinoa-inspired AC outfit, but tbh her OG outfit might manifest differently in a non-FF battle system.* On the one hand, go panty shots! Sex is great, sexy people are great, and on the other hand, I want to focus on a character in a life/death situation, not get a nosebleed. I dunno, how did they handle it in Dissidia?

Gonna have to fire up dissidia to check this out. I have the second one on my Vita.
That being said - a couple of months ago I was playing through the story-mode with Tifa, and never once noticed her panties, so it probably isn't all that hard to manage.

*non-FF meaning anything other than enemies on one side, heroes on the other, all waiting patiently to execute their moves. I realize that FFX was the last title to use this style.

Didn't 13 do this too? Or rather, it did it to the exact same degree as FFVII, VIII and IX?
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
That might confuse people. 'What, they actually set each other on fire in the name of art'?

No...they're play-acting taking damage from a fake magic effect? Did you think they're actually cutting each other with their swords?

Playing Tales of Xillia lately, by the way, I disliked my primary healer (well, more her sock puppet pet), but it was a total non issue because I just used the other one. Which was fine for the vast majority of the game, it only became an issue in the very hardest encounters.

Elize is actually an incredibly powerful offensive magic caster. Once I figured that out she became a lot of fun to play with.

I'm kind of hoping for an implementation of costume options. Mostly if the Tifa-somersault-panty-shots are going to be too much... I hate her Rinoa-inspired AC outfit, but tbh her OG outfit might manifest differently in a non-FF battle system.* On the one hand, go panty shots! Sex is great, sexy people are great, and on the other hand, I want to focus on a character in a life/death situation, not get a nosebleed. I dunno, how did they handle it in Dissidia?

You have manipulate the camera pretty intentionally to see up her skirt. Probably in the character viewer. Her moves happen too fast during gameplay. Good luck finding any underwear in this:
 

Diamonddark

SEPINHORF LIVES!
AKA
Rich
Did anyone read this article yet? I share it's hopes for the remake.

http://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-7-remake-i-am-setsuna/

And random thought; I wonder if SE would consider allowing the user to switch between the modern action-rpg style and a more traditional approach. There wouldn't be any extra development for a traditional approach, it'd be more like turning restrictions on, rather than a completely new system.
 
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Lex

Administrator
I'd like a turn based system/ option too. They're definitely not going full action with it, given known comments. I'm honestly looking forward to whatever they do with the battle system, thinking about it I can't remember a time playing any FF game where I've disliked it.
 

hian

Purist
Although I've yet to really hate an action system from SE, I've never loved one either. It's always a lukewarm affair.
The only thing I want, and I'm worried about not getting, is a system that has strategic depth and allows us to play using the entire party in a meaningful way.

Yes, I know they said we will be able to change characters - but does not mean that changing characters will add much to the game-play. FF Type-0 did the same, but really, it didn't add much depth at all.
In Type-0 you couldn't target party members individually with healing spells for instance.
And on that note - one thing that almost all action based systems lack - is a magic system that even comes close to the versatility and complexity of the ones seen in command based games.
Since the original was so firmly rooted in the use of materias and magic, I want a system that allows the player to target enemies and party members alike, with ease and comfort, so I can set up reliable strategies using magic.

In an action system where for instance, magic is treated like a projectile weapon, or relies on auto-targeting, and where all your targets are running around in real time, where you don't have time to scroll a menu (or worse only have a few spells bound to buttons on the controller), the materia system and the magic system of FFVII would be severely handicapped.

So, please SE - don't got that route.
 

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
I dunno. The thing I'm looking forward to the most in the system is switching characters :/
 

hian

Purist
I dunno. The thing I'm looking forward to the most in the system is switching characters :/

Of course I'm looking forward to changing characters, and indeed it's one of the primary things I want from the system - my worry is simply how they'll pull off action with a multi-character system.

My biggest issue with most multi-character action systems is that it becomes difficult to manage party strategy, with the NPC characters dying on you whilst you're frantically running about trying to fight a difficult foe, or conversely, that they simply cease to matter because they either do too much, or don't do anything to significantly impact the battle at all.

There is a reason most action games limit you to a single character, or feature some sort of player co-op mode, and why people tend to hate sections that force an NPC ally on you - and it's because it's near impossible to do well.

The best way I've seen so far is in games like Star Ocean, and Rogue Galaxy - that allow the player to pause at any given time to assign the use of items or magic. This allows for full action for melee, but also for the versatility and ease of use of the command systems usually used in turn-based games when you want/have to rely on magic and items.

Hopefully, SE will adopt such an approach - but looking at some of the games they've made the last decade there's no guarantee really.
 

Airling

Ninja-Fairy-Jedi-Princess
The best way I've seen so far is in games like Star Ocean, and Rogue Galaxy - that allow the player to pause at any given time to assign the use of items or magic. This allows for full action for melee, but also for the versatility and ease of use of the command systems usually used in turn-based games when you want/have to rely on magic and items.

I think XII pulled off the single-controlable-character thing while maintaining a party dynamic pretty well.

But it is a bit of a difficult situation for SE I think. On the one hand, they probably want to innovate and do something exciting, but on the other hand, turn-based micro-managing is something FF players obviously love. So they have to manage expectations while still doing something else so we don't get bored off our brains and stop playing(buying). It feels quite that way when they've been going back and forth between more action-based and more turn-based for a few years.
 

hian

Purist
I think XII pulled off the single-controlable-character thing while maintaining a party dynamic pretty well.

XII does not have an action battle system though. It's a command-based system, using the ATB.
It's also really slow, to enable the players time to register and think about the flow of battle.

I don't mind an action system though - as long as they add the option to halt/slow down the fight and use a menu and manual target system for items and magic. That's all I would need for the system to work optimally.

I'm just really worried that they'll do something dumb which makes it really hard for me to heal my allies, or something that limits my ability to put thought into spell-craft etc.

I really don't want to have to scroll through a menu in real time looking for the phoenix down, or the life spell, whilst one of the weapons is trampling all over my party-members (Oh hai thur Type-0!).
 

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
XII's "pause-n-scroll" worked beautifully, and it looks like they're implementing something like that in XV as well. Square did Star Ocean, so I have confidence in the battle system.
 

t0mmyg

Rookie Adventurer
A pause and scroll/ select like 12, or Mass Effect 2 would probably work well. As long as the characters have more uniqueness and depth you'd have a pretty good system on your hands.
 

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
I hate the Power Wheel and everything about it. It's only tolerable in Mass Effect because I typically only use one power per character, and our guns do the rest of the work. In Dragon Age though it was a game-killer. It's not elegant to give your hands a cramp if you want to employ a strategy. L2 and R2 are not friendly buttons.
 

Lulcielid

Eyes of the Lord
AKA
Lulcy
For the gameplay I´d like the materia system to work the same way as in the original VII (gaining ap per battle battle/defeated enemy, decreasing/increasing stats when equipping them) but I personally would like to reduce the numbers of spells in the game. To be honest every JRPG that I played that had a large spell pool only a handful of them are actually useful.
I´m pretty ok with only having the basic elemental spell (with their tiers) and maybe some healing/buff-debuffs spells at most.
 

hian

Purist
I was just watching through the trailer again, and noticed something interesting about the combat, especially in light of what Kitase and Co. said in the interviews.

When Cloud and Barret are doing regular attacks, the "attack" command in the menu is blue, and blinking - in fact the entire command menu is blue and pulsing.
However, when doing special attacks and the ATB bar is full red, everything is grayed out.
Also, the part where Barret is doing his special, and Cloud's ATB is completely drained, Cloud is standing entirely inactive next to Barret until Barret fires his charged attack, and only then does Cloud start running towards the enemies.

This might suggest some kind of cool-down, or "end of turn" mechanic.

Up until this point, people have just guessed that the ATB gauge was just some sort of combo-guage - but it might actually be the case that gauge doubles as a limit on the actions you can take "in 1 turn" so to speak.
I.E attacking builds the gauge, allows you to top it off with a special, and then puts the player on the defensive until it goes back down (which would be the ideal time to swap to another character that's no currently on cool-down).

Even if this turns out to be wrong though - at the very least it probably suggests that the moves/actions of characters cannot be spammed into one another the way that you can usually do in action games.
Taken together with the how the devs envision the system as being "Dissidia > KH > FFVIIR", the inclusion of the wait system in FFXV (which shows that SE devs are conscious of how action battle systems impact strategical play involving the use of a party) I'm actually less and less concerned about this turning into an action fest.

I think we're looking at something like a mix of Dissidia's RPG battle system setting in turns of how commands are carried out and KH in terms of mobility and how enemies are encountered -
Selecting commands and targets, whilst the characters largely attack automatically - and then using some sort of cool-down to create breaks in the game-play that allows the player to focus on browsing through spells, changing targets, which character to control etc.
Another hint suggesting such a system, if combined with everything else, is that at the first point where the player is controlling Barret, Barret is moving towards the screen firing at an enemy that isn't even on screen.
That's pretty unusually for action systems with a functional targeting systems because usually targeting an enemy (which you probably have to do to hit an enemy with someone like Barret to begin with) usually auto-focused the camera over the shoulder of the character directly at the enemy.

If however, characters move pretty automatically as is the case in Dissidia's RPG setting, it wouldn't matter. You'd be free to move the camera around in whatever way you please whilst leaving the character to its own machine (at least for the duration of one attack-loop, until the ATB bar resets).
In the context of having a party - that makes even more sense, because, as you can see in the trailer, you can keep track of Cloud's movements in the background, which is vital if you're aspiring to retain full control over your party at all times.

Of course that part might simply be a fluke caused by some sort of soft-targeting system, and the player not attending to the camera, but combined with everything else we know, I think there is a chance that it's more deliberate than that.


Anyway, so I guess my predictions for the battle system summarized are as follows :

1.) You have partial control over movement in battle, but the characters will move around automatically even if you don't push the movement stick, which allows you to constantly survey the battle-field using the right analogue to keep track of what's going on even as your party members carry out their commands.

2.) You'll select commands from the menu, which the characters will then carry out automatically for the duration of one ATB meter, or round.
Selecting attack will probably end with a special attack and the game will probably allow you to customize and set up combos.
Selecting magic, items, or summons rather than how the attack fills the ATB meter by connected hits, will fill the ATB meter in one go, and cannot be used again until its empty again.


The strategy of the game then is found in rapidly switching between characters to give them orders as their ATB is on zero, and using the time when they're either working their attacks up to their special (and using the special), or in the period after casting magic or items to consider your options - your next round so to speak.


So guys, write it down in stone. If I'm right when it comes out, I'll be going, "CALLED IT!!11!1!11!1111!!!!!"
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
hian said:
Up until this point, people have just guessed that the ATB gauge was just some sort of combo-guage - but it might actually be the case that gauge doubles as a limit on the actions you can take "in 1 turn" so to speak.
I.E attacking builds the gauge, allows you to top it off with a special, and then puts the player on the defensive until it goes back down (which would be the ideal time to swap to another character that's no currently on cool-down).

Even if this turns out to be wrong though - at the very least it probably suggests that the moves/actions of characters cannot be spammed into one another the way that you can usually do in action games.

Well I mean...they've said in a couple interviews now that the combat was not going to be as action-heavy as Kingdom Hearts or FFXV.
 

hian

Purist
Well I mean...they've said in a couple interviews now that the combat was not going to be as action-heavy as Kingdom Hearts or FFXV.

I know that. As do you. The vast majority of youtube comments, comment videos etc. though seem to be either lamenting or celebrating the games transition to an "action system".

On the surface it also looks pretty action based - but if you slow it down to a 25% play-rate and look at it closer to frame by frame, you just notice that even as it is right now, it does not look much like an action game.

Or rather, it looks like an action game, but does not seem to be playing like one (from most of the enemies just standing around not attacking, to Cloud standing still at certain points when Barret is attacking, the way the menu grays out etc.)

I just wanted to point out that there's more to indicate the retention of a more command-based system than just the interviews, and also put my theory on how the battle system will play out there for reference in case I'm right =P
 

Lulcielid

Eyes of the Lord
AKA
Lulcy
The enemies "not attacking" in trailer could probably be explained as the devs playing with the AI while recording footage for trailer.
 

hian

Purist
The enemies "not attacking" in trailer could probably be explained as the devs playing with the AI while recording footage for trailer.

If non of the enemies were attacking period, then you'd have a point.
They're not though. They attack at times, move at times, and then they have dead-periods where they hardly seem to move at all.

Of course you could be right though. As I said though - I'm making this argument based on all the various signs in the trailer put together.

If the enemies not attacking was the only thing there, then I'd probably lean towards what you're saying here.

That being said, there should be very little reason, if any, to mess with the A.I for the sake of recording footage when they've already boosted the HP of the characters, and given them basic one-hit-kill skills that are doing 300 plus damage to infantry that are also dying from 1-3 regular strikes in either case.
 

paleofan

Pro Adventurer
I was fine with either action or turn based but automatic attacks are something I can't stand. In terms of feelings, it removes all the satisfaction of choosing (in comparison to turn based) or doing (in comparison to action) the attacks. In my opinion, it's best to either go full action or full turn based rather than trying to make hybrids, it seems to me like these never work out. Probably because these two kinds of games aren't compatible, when you put some elements of one, it removes aspects from the other. In the end, hybrids always end up with the worst of both worlds to me, like they get the cons of both types but none of the pros.
Anyway, that's just my opinion but I hope this automatic attacks part of your prediction is wrong :puppy:
 

hian

Purist
I was fine with either action or turn based but automatic attacks are something I can't stand. In terms of feelings, it removes all the satisfaction of choosing (in comparison to turn based) or doing (in comparison to action) the attacks. In my opinion, it's best to either go full action or full turn based rather than trying to make hybrids, it seems to me like these never work out. Probably because these two kinds of games aren't compatible, when you put some elements of one, it removes aspects from the other. In the end, hybrids always end up with the worst of both worlds to me, like they get the cons of both types but none of the pros.
Anyway, that's just my opinion but I hope this automatic attacks part of your prediction is wrong :puppy:

I'm not entirely in disagreement with you there.

However, I don't exactly see the distinction between choosing, in a command-based system, to attack once and then waiting until the meter fills up, or choosing for your character to do a sequence of attacks and waiting for the meter to go back down.

Personally, I don't think the new system will be as automatic as, for example, the RPG system set-up of the PSP Dissidia game. Simply similar to some extent.

Of course I could very well be wrong. It's also important to note that due to the fact that the game is still apparently very much WIP when it comes to the battle-system, the next trailer might show something very different from what we saw this time around.
 

paleofan

Pro Adventurer
Hello everyone!
I wondered, was there ever a difficulty setting in one of the main Final Fantasy entry?
I know there usually isn't but I would like one for FF7 Remake so I can start directly in difficult mode. I know I love the FF7 world enough to motivate me going through hard challenges and failing against some bosses. Also I need to have my ass handed by Sephiroth like, a million times before I can defeat him: it's important to me :awesomonster:
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
Hello everyone!
I wondered, was there ever a difficulty setting in one of the main Final Fantasy entry?
I know there usually isn't but I would like one for FF7 Remake so I can start directly in difficult mode. I know I love the FF7 world enough to motivate me going through hard challenges and failing against some bosses. Also I need to have my ass handed by Sephiroth like, a million times before I can defeat him: it's important to me :awesomonster:

FFXV has a difficulty setting. I think it might be the first?

Wouldn't be surprised if FFVIIR lets you choose difficulties as well, especially with Nomura directing.
 

Random Nobody

local roach
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