Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

[Tashasaurous]

...........................Tashasaurous.

....? Did I say something wrong?

 

[jazzflower92]

Since we don't know what Hojo's last name is, I think it would be fun if Sepheritoh's last name would be his mother's. I mean Sephiroth Crescent has a nice ring to it. Not to mention he would prefer having the last name of his mother over his abusive father.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

How do you know Hojo was an abusive father?

Edited to add: we have no evidence that Hojo was an abusive father, and no evidence that Sephiroth disliked being a human superweapon, although it started to drag after his friends left. What we do know is that Sephiroth was an abusive son - except, of course, that he didn't know the man he was verbally abusing was his father. But he had contempt for Hojo and had no problems expressing his belief that Gast was a much greater man. If anything, Sephiroth would have rejected Hojo's name not on the grounds that he was abusive, but that he simply wasn't good enough to be the father of the great Sephiroth.

I have this mental image of 14 year old Sephiroth and Hojo out together at the Shinra Mall, and Sephiroth is slouching along about ten paces behind Hojo, hoping that he does't bump into anyone from school and pretending that he isn't connected to this totally embarassing old man in any way.

 

[hian]

....? Did I say something wrong?

Yeah, I think the person you replied to was talking based only on the original, which is why your reply made no sense.
Also you said this :

Only problem with that is that Reeve's surname is Tuesti since his mother's surname is Tuesti too. I can't remember her surname, though.

Why can't Reeve have his mother's surname? It's completely normal. I have both my father's and my mother's surname.

 

[jazzflower92]

How do you know Hojo was an abusive father?

Edited to add: we have no evidence that Hojo was an abusive father, and no evidence that Sephiroth disliked being a human superweapon, although it started to drag after his friends left. What we do know is that Sephiroth was an abusive son - except, of course, that he didn't know the man he was verbally abusing was his father. But he had contempt for Hojo and had no problems expressing his belief that Gast was a much greater man. If anything, Sephiroth would have rejected Hojo's name not on the grounds that he was abusive, but that he simply wasn't good enough to be the father of the great Sephiroth.

I have this mental image of 14 year old Sephiroth and Hojo out together at the Shinra Mall, and Sephiroth is slouching along about ten paces behind Hojo, hoping that he does't bump into anyone from school and pretending that he isn't connected to this totally embarassing old man in any way.

Uh, let's see he allowed his son to be experimented on as fetus, denied him any contact with his mother, lied about his true parentage, and admits in the end he only sees his child as a experiment. Even though we don't see how he raised Sephiroth, I don't think it would have been healthy at all. There are different forms of abuse, and not all of them are physical.

I don't think calling out Hojo as a quack would be considered abuse, because it's really telling it like it is. Even in the game it hints that the kind of upbringing he had with no strong parental figures did take a toll on him emotionally and socially.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

It's true he only sees his child as an experiment, but he does see him as his greatest experiment. He even acknowledges that Sephiroth is more powerful than science. The son has outstripped the father.

It's true that he did experiment on Sephiroth - but nowadays lots of parents tamper with their kids in the womb in order to give them a better chance in life. Sephiroth never seemed to dislike being a SOLDIER.

It's also true that he denied him any contact with his mother, but then again his mother is equally guilty of experimenting on her son in the womb plus she's seriously depressive, suicidal, froze herself inside a giant crystal, and thinks filling people up with monstrous summons materia is better than letting them die a natural death, so maybe it was in Sephiroth's best interests. I'm partly joking, but many parents have lied to their children about serious issues with the very best of intentions. Hojo isn't exactly good when it comes to dealing with emotions. Maybe he felt it would be easier on Sephiroth if he thought his mother was dead. Do you honestly think Lucretia would have made a good mother?

Every child is an experiment as far as its parents are concerned. Sephiroth's relationship with Hojo is like a metaphor for this. And a child's successes are always, in some sense, its parents' successes too. At the end, Hojo was willing to sacrifice everything for his son.

So basically what I'm saying is, there's plenty of room to interpret their relationship as abusive, but we can't say that it definitively was abusive. The only person who could decide that would be Sephiroth.

 

[jazzflower92]

It's true he only sees his child as an experiment, but he does see him as his greatest experiment. He even acknowledges that Sephiroth is more powerful than science. The son has outstripped the father.

It's true that he did experiment on Sephiroth - but nowadays lots of parents tamper with their kids in the womb in order to give them a better chance in life. Sephiroth never seemed to dislike being a SOLDIER.

It's also true that he denied him any contact with his mother, but then again his mother is equally guilty of experimenting on her son in the womb plus she's seriously depressive, suicidal, froze herself inside a giant crystal, and thinks filling people up with monstrous summons materia is better than letting them die a natural death, so maybe it was in Sephiroth's best interests. I'm partly joking, but many parents have lied to their children about serious issues with the very best of intentions. Hojo isn't exactly good when it comes to dealing with emotions. Maybe he felt it would be easier on Sephiroth if he thought his mother was dead. Do you honestly think Lucretia would have made a good mother?

Every child is an experiment as far as its parents are concerned. Sephiroth's relationship with Hojo is like a metaphor for this. And a child's successes are always, in some sense, its parents' successes too. At the end, Hojo was willing to sacrifice everything for his son.

So basically what I'm saying is, there's plenty of room to interpret their relationship as abusive, but we can't say that it definitively was abusive. The only person who could decide that would be Sephiroth.

I think it would be too charitable to think that it's really any positive form of fatherly love, but just a scientist who sees his own offspring as an experiment. The Ultimanias themselves say that Hojo ultimately saw it more as an example of a long term experiment finally come to blossom. It's more like an experiment that just happens to be his son. Also Hojo isn't one of those parents who experiments to give a child a better chance at life, but to make a name for themselves in the science world.

Sorry, but I think your view on Hojo is too rosy, due to the fact of how he has been shown to be maniacally evil in canon. The fact he would even think to experiment on his unborn child with an unknown entity just shows how immoral he is.

 

[ForceStealer]

While there's definitely no cause to be charitable to Hojo, I'm just willing to bet that Sephiroth himself wouldn't categorize his childhood as an abusive one. Simply that he detests Hojo and views the so-called scientist as beneath him.

If Sephiroth doesn't know, then Hojo's probably right that Sephiroth would be dismayed to learn it. But if he figured it out along the way or during his trip through the lifestream, I imagine he would find it inconsequential to his goals.

 

[Roger]

Uh, let's see he allowed his son to be experimented on as fetus, denied him any contact with his mother, lied about his true parentage, and admits in the end he only sees his child as a experiment. Even though we don't see how he raised Sephiroth, I don't think it would have been healthy at all. There are different forms of abuse, and not all of them are physical.

I don't think calling out Hojo as a quack would be considered abuse, because it's really telling it like it is. Even in the game it hints that the kind of upbringing he had with no strong parental figures did take a toll on him emotionally and socially.

There was abuse and he was the father, medically speaking but as you say Hojo lied about Sephiroth's true parentage. He did not claim Sephiroth as his child and raise Sephiroth at all. Sephiroth never conciously suffered under an abusive father. As far as he knew he had parental abandonment and also his personal hero Gast was replaced by some dick.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yeah, there's a difference between an abusive father and an abusive person who happens to also be the biological father.

As far as we were ever made aware, Sephiroth didn't know Hojo to be his father, so even if he felt abused by Hojo (which we don't know for sure), he wouldn't have felt abused by his father figure. That makes for an appreciable difference.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Up until he lost his marbles, Sephiroth actually seemed pretty well-adjusted. I mean he's not cruel to the people under his command. He can laugh at himself. He's pretty well-informed about the world he lives in. When the bridge snaps and they lose one of the infantrymen, he apologises for not being able to stop and search for him.

Sephiroth doesn't appear to have any particular grudge against Shinra - even if we include the expanded canon, he's in no hurry to abandon Shinra, and it seems as if he would rather bring his friends back to the company fold than desert and join them.

He seems, in short, to be content with his life, up until the Nibelheim incident. He doesn't manifest any of the characteristics of an abused child - aside, of course, from massacring an entire village and deciding to turn himself into a planet-munching god, but we are given a canon reason for that and it has nothing to do with him having suffered an unhappy childhood.

Angeal and Genesis were given normal childhoods. Angeal's mother and step-father were devoted to him. Genesis had a foster family who apparently loved him very much. We have no reason to suppose that Sephiroth's childhood was any different. On the other hand, we also have no evidence that his childhood was pleasant. It's all what you choose to make of it.

 

[Tashasaurous]

....? Did I say something wrong?

Yeah, I think the person you replied to was talking based only on the original, which is why your reply made no sense.

Sorry, my bad.

Also you said this :

Only problem with that is that Reeve's surname is Tuesti since his mother's surname is Tuesti too. I can't remember her surname, though.

Why can't Reeve have his mother's surname? It's completely normal. I have both my father's and my mother's surname.

I'm not saying he can't have his mother's surname.(I have my dad's surname since my mum changed hers when she got married) It's just that people were questioning about, well, Reeve being either his first name or surname and I was just pointing out that his surname was Tuesti. So he's off the "mystery first name/surname" list in FFVII franchise.

 

[jazzflower92]

Up until he lost his marbles, Sephiroth actually seemed pretty well-adjusted. I mean he's not cruel to the people under his command. He can laugh at himself. He's pretty well-informed about the world he lives in. When the bridge snaps and they lose one of the infantrymen, he apologises for not being able to stop and search for him.

Sephiroth doesn't appear to have any particular grudge against Shinra - even if we include the expanded canon, he's in no hurry to abandon Shinra, and it seems as if he would rather bring his friends back to the company fold than desert and join them.

He seems, in short, to be content with his life, up until the Nibelheim incident. He doesn't manifest any of the characteristics of an abused child - aside, of course, from massacring an entire village and deciding to turn himself into a planet-munching god, but we are given a canon reason for that and it has nothing to do with him having suffered an unhappy childhood.

Angeal and Genesis were given normal childhoods. Angeal's mother and step-father were devoted to him. Genesis had a foster family who apparently loved him very much. We have no reason to suppose that Sephiroth's childhood was any different. On the other hand, we also have no evidence that his childhood was pleasant. It's all what you choose to make of it.

You know some abused individuals don't always lash against their abusive situations due to being used to that kind of environment. I think the interpretation that it wasn't abusive is kind of just an interpretation and not really set in canon.

Not all abuse victims act the same way as everyone, because some of that abuse can be more subtle than others. Even though he was friendly, he still seemed to be very detached from others and only had a few companions that he could latch onto.

 

[hian]

I think the interpretation that it wasn't abusive is kind of just an interpretation and not really set in canon.

As is the theory that he was abused.
The nature of Sephiroth's childhood is not made explicit in the canon of the game period, one way or the other.

Not all abuse victims act the same way as everyone, because some of that abuse can be more subtle than others. Even though he was friendly, he still seemed to be very detached from others and only had a few companions that he could latch onto.

There are plenty of people who are detached and aloof from other people without being abused.
I was never abused, and my need for social interaction and "close" relationships is almost non-existent.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Hian beat me to it.

Jazz, I'm not saying you can't think of him as having been abused in his childhood, or that there's no scope for interpreting him as abused. But it's not a slam dunk. It would be possible to portray him, in his childhood and pre-Nibelheim, as being well-treated, even loved, and well-adjusted, without contradicting anything in canon. That doesn't stop you from thinking about him any way you like.

 

[Lulcielid]

First time posting in this thread, I think...

MY HOPES FOR THE REMAKE:

1. Incorporate elements from the Compilation of FFVII into the story
Mostly limited to fleshing out more characters like Vincent & Zack, who didn´t get too attention.

2. Seenless transition between areas.
This means no loading screens each time I want to to open a door to enter a house or entering a new zone in the map.

3. No permanent item lost.
No magic pots stealing your ultimate weapons and loosing them permanently because you encountered them for the first time, accidently fight them beofre giving the elixir and then the b***es fleeing from battle. (This happened to me...)

4. Dinamyc day & night cycle.
Mostly to increase the inmersion when travelling and exploring the world (of course this hope is under the assumption that you will be able to "explore" Gaia in some kind of fashion)

5. The Advent Children cast returning to voice the characters.

 

[Ite]

I'm all for 2 and 4! And fully against 1, 3, and 5 lol. It's nice to know that it's impossible for them to please everybody. We can all take what they give us for what it is.

 

[Claymore]

(of course this hope is under the assumption that you will be able to "explore" Gaia in some kind of fashion)

They really have to. It's an emotional game, and a lot of people have a big emotional attachment to it. Even if you only gain full access right towards the end, they must know how important it is to implement a fully explorable world. My faith in SE isn't exactly high right now, but this is something they won't mess with. (He says ... crossing fingers ...)

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I would really like the world map to have more place names even if we can't visit them. This would save me having to invent my own.

 

[RedFFWolf]

^Indeed, even the region areas on the world map could be a little more inspiring this time around than "Woodlands Area" and "Grasslands Area", for example.

Having something equivalent to the FFXII's Clan Primer would make me a very happy boyo.

Regarding the Day/Night cycle, this is something I would love very much. Ever since I got into the Zelda franchise I've really come to value any game that does this. I would love for the music to change at night, too. Imagine a subtle version of Anxious Heart playing on the world map or certain cities/towns when it rolls around to night-time (depending on what part of the game you're on, too).

 

[Tashasaurous]

First time posting in this thread, I think...

MY HOPES FOR THE REMAKE:

1. Incorporate elements from the Compilation of FFVII into the story
Mostly limited to fleshing out more characters like Vincent & Zack, who didn´t get too attention.

Yes to the first, and also fleshing out the Turks to show that they are more good-hearted, just following orders. (And to keep Reno's hair bright red)

2. Seenless transition between areas.

This means no loading screens each time I want to to open a door to enter a house or entering a new zone in the map.

Agree with the second.

3. No

permanent item lost.
No magic pots stealing your ultimate weapons and loosing them permanently because you encountered them for the first time, accidently fight them beofre giving the elixir and then the b***es fleeing from battle. (This happened to me...)

Not too sure about the third.

4. Dinamyc day & night cycle.

Mostly to increase the inmersion when travelling and exploring the world (of course this hope is under the assumption that you will be able to "explore" Gaia in some kind of fashion)

Yes to the fourth.

5. The Advent Children cast returning to voice the characters.

Definately yes to the fifth!...except that it's already been confirmed that those who had cameo speeches in the film(Nanaki for example) will have a change in voice casting. (I'm hoping Elena's voice actress reprises her role in the remake since she was called back to voice Elena in new scenes in ACC).

I'm all for 2 and 4! And fully against 1, 3, and 5 lol. It's nice to know that it's impossible for them to please everybody. We can all take what they give us for what it is.

True, but the only one I'm half-against is the third one. The rest of them I'm all for, lol.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I know you and I are both big Turk fans, Tasha, so I hope you won't take it amiss if I say I hope they don't whitewash the Turks. Yes, they are only following orders, but they don't seem to have any qualms about working for a company that issues such orders. I kind of like them a bit on the dirty and vicious side.

(Also if you read "The Kids Are All Right" you'll see that all four of them love nothing better than knocking the shit out of people, and Elena is the most gleeful torturer of the four. Reno calls it "doing things the Turks way" and Rufus is always reining him in. Tseng shows some awareness of his own badness, but can't always control it either. They're Mafia enforcers, can they really be good-hearted people?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Reno especially has shown a lot of "tortured soul" elements on the morality front (in Before Crisis, Advent Children Complete, Episode:Shin-Ra of On the Way to a Smile, The Kids Are Alright), and even outright refused an order from Tseng that would have meant collateral damage.

I don't know how much I want the remake to emphasize this, but the Turks are about like Barret's AVALANCHE in terms of guilt and ends-justify-the-means-ness.

 

[hian]

In the original, Reno didn't seem like he cared at all about collateral damage though.

I don't know. Not all characters need to struggle with their morality to be interesting. Some people literally just don't care. Some people relish in the torture and death of others.
Not saying the Turks are like this - simply that I don't think the Turks being more on the "dirty merc" side of things detracts in any way from the story.

 

[Tashasaurous]

I know you and I are both big Turk fans, Tash, so I hope you won't take it amiss if I say I hope they don't whitewash the Turks. Yes, they are only following orders, but they don't seem to have any qualms about working for a company that issues such orders. I kind of like them a bit on the dirty and vicious side.

(Also if you read "The Kids Are All Right" you'll see that all four of them love nothing better than knocking the shit out of people, and Elena is the most gleeful torturer of the four. Reno calls it "doing things the Turks way" and Rufus is always reining him in. Tseng shows some awareness of his own badness, but can't always control it either. They're Mafia enforcers, can they really be good-hearted people?

Reno especially has shown a lot of "tortured soul" elements on the morality front (in Before Crisis, Advent Children Complete, Episode:Shin-Ra of On the Way to a Smile, The Kids Are Alright), and even outright refused an order from Tseng that would have meant collateral damage.

I don't know how much I want the remake to emphasize this, but the Turks are about like Barret's AVALANCHE in terms of guilt and ends-justify-the-means-ness.

LicoriceAllsorts, I can see where you're coming from, and actually, I've read "The Kids Are Alright"(at least the first half and part of the second half) at least 20 times already since I love it so much, and yes the Turks loved that sort of thing on their jobs, but as The Twlight Mexican has pointed out, Reno did show a bit of emotions of guilt and wasn't sure on how to solve them, but he only revealed his feelings to those closest to him(Tseng, Rude, Elena, the BC Turks,) and the reason why he refused Tseng's order was that

Spoiler

he didn't want to hurt or kill Evan

.

None of us really have any idea where Nomura and the others are going with the Remake, since they're working on which elements from the Compilation they want to put in along with some new content to connect them with the original story.

In the original, Reno didn't seem like he cared at all about collateral damage though.

I don't know. Not all characters need to struggle with their morality to be interesting. Some people literally just don't care. Some people relish in the torture and death of others.
Not saying the Turks are like this - simply that I don't think the Turks being more on the "dirty merc" side of things detracts in any way from the story.

Well, the Turks also kept secrets. For all we know, on the outside Reno didn't care much on what was happening(and I think he at first thought the AVALANCHE Cloud was with was still the original AVLANCHE reborn from Before Crisis), but deep down, he had to bottle up his feelings and was still mourning for the "loss" of both Veld and the BC Turks since he and everyone else thought they were dead.

In fact, maybe that's why Reno took Rude and Elena to Wutai on vacation in the first place in the original, because he couldn't handle the stress. And where's the first place he'd go to in order to sober up?

The Bar.