Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

[pxp]

i hope we get some more story on what happened to tifa before reuniting with cloud ;_;

Wasn't Zangan meant to have a slightly bigger role in the OG? I can imagine that Tifa's backstory will be elevated alongside his at some point. Not sure where/when though. Maybe in tandem with Cloud's revelation, so that a fuller pictures emerges at that point? Any earlier and too much is revealed of the main story, I guess (and Tifa doesn't want to talk about the past anyway, it seems).

 

[Roger]

i hope we get some more story on what happened to tifa before reuniting with cloud ;_;

Wasn't Zangan meant to have a slightly bigger role in the OG? I can imagine that Tifa's backstory will be elevated alongside his at some point. Not sure where/when though. Maybe in tandem with Cloud's revelation, so that a fuller pictures emerges at that point? Any earlier and too much is revealed of the main story, I guess (and Tifa doesn't want to talk about the past anyway, it seems).

Yeah, he was suppose to show up when you first go to Nibelheim and discuss the presence of the Sephiroth clones and the fact that the town was miraculously rebuilt.

 

[Sorcerologist]

Here's some deleted scenes with regards to Nibelheim. Zangan clarifies what happened to Nibelheim villagers who returned to the village after it burned down:

Cloud: “Did you find something out?”

Zangan: “An immensely vital secret… and it was right here.”

Cloud: “To keep a secret? Shinra shouldn’t have had to go to all that trouble. They could just send in the troops and raze the town. That way everything would be erased.”

Zangan: “If they did that, don’t you think people would start talking a bit? I think Shinra wanted to avoid that. All of the true residents of this village are dead. Several have returned here… and it seems they were killed. You’ve seen the boorish lot who were prowling around here, didn’t you?”

Cloud: “What are they hiding, that they’d go so far..?”

https://thelifestream.net/lifestream-projects/translations/2075/early-material-file-scenarios-and-scripts-p-527-528-of-the-final-fantasy-vii-ultimania-omega/

 

[looneymoon]

Spoiler: spoilers for breath of the wild

link had to cross dress in order to gain entry to the Goron City.

you know what that means

 

[T@ctic]

i hope the turks aren't such a laughingstock. i liked how the side game showed them.

EDIT meant to put aren't in case anyone was confused

 

[T@ctic]

also, found this at random, does anyone remember this? its from 2010.

(http://andriasang.com/comq6w/3rd_birthday_and_crisis_core/)

Crisis Core was originally imagined as a full action game, Tabata revealed. However, because the staff was more skilled with RPGs, they changed the design to have more RPG-like battles. In the end, Tabata feels the change was good.

When moving on to The 3rd Birthday, Tabata assembled people who seemed more capable in the action genre. He believes that The 3rd birthday has turned out according to its original image, although the quality is even greater than expected.

Getting strictly into Crisis Core's development, Tabata revealed a bit of trivia about the early Square Enix PSP title. One parts of Crisis Core ended up having to be cut because the game went beyond what could fit on a UMD. The area that was cut was the period when Zack and Cloud escape the Shinra Mansion in Nibelheim and flee to Midgar. While Tabata felt that by showing the drama as Zack and Cloud fled to Midgar they could better show the ties between the two, they decided that it would instead be better to focus on Zack's activity as a soldier.

hmmmmm ?? will we see this in the RM?

 

[Roger]

I can see them doing a new secret Part 3 dungeon where Cloud reminisces visiting the area once before with Zack.

 

[pxp]

Or maybe the flashback sequence from the OG when you go back to the Shinra Mansion basement (after Cloud’s memory returns) becomes a playable segment, a la this idea for CC?

 

[T@ctic]

i was reading on tvtropes on how originally tifa and aerith were supposed to be opposites of their exterior. tifa was handled good for the most part but the article pointed out that S/E was caught up in the very thing they were supposed to surprise the audience on and stripped away aerith's spunkiness/tomboyish ways to make her appear like a saint. although, these portrayals are in the side games and aren't canon, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal. however i don't think giving back her '97 will be the same for the 2020 (?) release, so i hope they will give her a boost in her character since it's been watered down for so many years.

and this was most likely a discussion here but IDC how do any of you believe the characters will survive for the remake? will they really show their age? will only a few characters be salvaged?

 

[Random Nobody]

I don't think Tifa was handled particularly well either, but Cloud and Aerith definitely got the worst of it.

In any case, Nomura did make that "dork" comment, so presumably that means they're taking a second look at the EU's characterisations.

 

[Kain424]

I think some of that will be up to how they translate the dialog. I always think of that bit where Cloud and Aerith are hopping along the junk in the slums, and Cloud starts ribbing her for her lack of athleticism. It's a nice scene, and I'd hate for something like that to be lost. It shows her tenacity, but also informs us about her strengths and weaknesses. For Cloud's part, it let's him be the showy, Zack-like character he wants to be. It basically ends with both of them having a laugh, and bonding over expectations.

 

[Claymore]

As long as they spend some time re-playing the original game and seeing what the characters were like at that specific point in time, then I think we'll be ok. It's if they start looking at the characterisations outside of the original that we'll run into all sorts of problems. If Aerith gets retroactively turned into Saint/Holy/Angel from the get go and Cloud doesn't have his dorkiness/flashiness, then it is all going to fall apart.

 

[Theozilla]

I think their KH characterizations are fine for what the KH games are. People forget that the KH games are E10+ games and not T rated in terms of target demographic and allowed content. Also surface layer characterizations are par for the course for non-original KH characters, particularly when all the Square Enix characters only share a couple worlds between them so any plot specific characterizations can't really be included (compared to the Disney characters who get their own world for each film, and even then that's limited in characterization).

(Also IMO Aerith doesn't come off as saintly at all in KH, she's just plain and her VA (english ones at least) don't have great voice direction)

 

[T@ctic]

to be fair i never really saw any spin offs so i can't really say anything, it was just what i read on tvtropes so i was just going off what they had said and observed. but i have seen aerith in her praying pose which can make her appear as if she is a saint? idk...

 

[Theozilla]

I wouldn’t recommend relying on TV tropes to get an accurate impartial impression any piece of media, unless you’re just doing it for fun to read comedic/witty descriptions of a work.

 

[Random Nobody]

I think their KH characterizations are fine for what the KH games are. People forget that the KH games are E10+ games and not T rated in terms of target demographic and allowed content. Also surface layer characterizations are par for the course for non-original KH characters, particularly when all the Square Enix characters only share a couple worlds between them so any plot specific characterizations can't really be included (compared to the Disney characters who get their own world for each film, and even then that's limited in characterization).

(Also IMO Aerith doesn't come off as saintly at all in KH, she's just plain and her VA (english ones at least) don't have great voice direction)

I've only played one KH (I don't even remember if I finished it) and that was over ten years ago, so when talking about the EU characterisations, I'm more thinking about the Compilation.

 

[ForceStealer]

I don't mind Aerith being the way she was in Crisis Core, that was seven years before FF7. The difference between being 15 and 22 is a pretty big one, she could have very easily developed her asssertiveness/spunkiness after that, having seven years in the slums to get more streetwise. I was certainly more self-confident at 22 than I was at 15, and I didn't spend my formative years as a science experiment.

But yes, hopefully they keep that in mind for the remake.

 

[T@ctic]

I wouldn’t recommend relying on TV tropes to get an accurate impartial impression any piece of media, unless you’re just doing it for fun to read comedic/witty descriptions of a work.

oh no, i wasn't looking at it as a sort of hardcore legitimacy, i was just juggling around the idea of how they viewed her. tbh, my struggle to like her is because of the way the game tried to portray her, even for her spunkiness. not as a saint, but just...innocent? like nagisa from clannad, if anyone has watched it. she had her own character but the show shoe horned in her "innocence" where she was almost unlikable and it wasn't even her fault.

I don't mind Aerith being the way she was in Crisis Core, that was seven years before FF7. The difference between being 15 and 22 is a pretty big one, she could have very easily developed her asssertiveness/spunkiness after that, having seven years in the slums to get more streetwise. I was certainly more self-confident at 22 than I was at 15, and I didn't spend my formative years as a science experiment.

But yes, hopefully they keep that in mind for the remake.

i liked how she was in CC as well! so many aerith fans hate for what the game did to her, but it makes absolute sense. her spunkiness had to have been developed afterwards, she had met one of the spunkiest characters in the game! besides, a lot of characters were one way before they met zack, and they changed afterwards because of him and how he touched their lives, that's just what he does.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I guess when I hear "spunky" I think more "bold" than "plucky" -- and while Zack is plucky, he never struck me as particularly audacious. Frankly, quite the opposite.

I don't know, I really can't see what Zack could have imparted that should have toughened her up significantly more than her life in the slums and what happened to her and her mother before that. Not that he had no effect on her whatsoever, of course, but not in this way.

 

[ForceStealer]

Because of the British members here I always try to avoid the word "spunky," but I couldn't find a good word aside from "assertive" which didn't seem to capture all of it.

And yeah, I think living in the slums had more impact than Zack did. But given Zack's huge influence on Cloud, it seems reasonable that he affected her at least a little.

 

[Theozilla]

Yeah, I really like Aerith in Crisis Core. And regardless of whether or not Zack (or any person in general) had an affect on her, a 15 (to 17) year old is not (nor should be) going to act same as they are when they are 22 years old even with growing up in the slums, particularly in regards to audacity. Also her English voice direction in Crisis Core is probably the best she has had in her English dubbing history.

The only times Aerith has come off as “innocent/saintly” to me was in AC/C, and for that case the context of her role kinda justifies it IMO, since she’s literally dead and only serves the narrative to be a personification/rumination on Cloud’s guilt. Expecting the full characterization of a posthumous character would kinda take away from the consequences of her death. And even then AC/C still has her dialogue (what little there is) include a few teasy moments.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Where I disagree with your assessment here, Theo, is that Aerith was otherwise shown to be audacious even when she was a much younger child than 15.

And yes, given the nature of the slums, I would fully expect a 15-year-old who has grown up there for more than half their life to be quite "street." Children considerably younger than that who grow up in less shitty environments have more edge than CC's Aerith.

This just goes back to the generally poor portrayal of the slums from CC. The difference between FFVII's portrayal of the slums and CC's portrayal is night and day.

 

[ForceStealer]

What is the basis for her being "street" before that, though? Saying "no" to going with Tseng?

I just don't see her being a little shy and flirty at 15 with the 17 year old SOLDIER boy as being out of character. She should be authoritative with Cloud, but again, that's seven years later.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Let's not put words in mouths. =P

I said "street" by 15, "audacious" when she was younger. And I also said "she was otherwise [emphasis added] shown to be audacious" -- meaning with regard to what we were shown of her.

Granted, on both occasions where we witness her as a child, she was dealing with Tseng, but that characterization of her as a young child has been at least noticeably consistent with her brash attitude as an adult. Particularly when we're looking at how she's presented to us in the original game as a work unto itself this becomes poignant.

Furthermore, reducing the portrayal of her as a child in the original game to just saying "no" drastically undersells how willful she behaved. And further furthermore, during the same narration that features this flashback, the woman who raised her described her with "That child loved to talk."

So, yeah. Audacious.

tl;dr: no u =P

 

[Theozilla]

I don’t think using Aerith’s interactions with Tseng, situations in which she is being combative/in conflict someone else, is really comparable to situations she is in with Zack in CC which are far more positive/relaxed, in which she still plenty chatty. Being aggressive with a person you’re in a conflict with is a distinct social situation than being aggressive with someone your having positive interaction with. Being somewhat shy with one’s first major crush doesn’t preclude being able to be willful in an argument (or audacious in other scenarios). So for me personally, that isn’t sufficient evidence to claim her CC characterization was conflicting/inconsistent with the OG (especially since Nojima was still the main writer in CC).