SPOILERS INTERmission Chapter 2 Spoiler Discussion

[Makoeyes987]

Dunno, the way how the ending is cut makes it look like Zack arrives at Aerith's church during the time when the team is on their way. I mean look at Zack before he was majorly fucked up after his fight now there is literally no scratch on him anymore

That doesn't make sense because Zack's last stand happened in September (during Crisis Core) and the party's escape from Midgar happened in December (during FFVII). People are somehow forgetting these events happened at completely different times, even within the same timeline.

For these events to somehow be in sync in the current time period, Zack would have to have been catapulted several months into the future immediately, without his knowledge, despite the fact we see him going to Midgar and arriving there as shown in the ending of the game, during his point in time. In Crisis Core. He goes from battling for his life, defeating the Shinra Army, carrying Cloud, passing the FFVII party, and reaching Midgar.

Cloud and the others pass Zack leaving Midgar, during December. CC Zack and Cloud pass the main characters, during September. Zack having a day or two to recover makes perfect sense, if you look at it from his temporal existence.

If you make it to where Zack is now suddenly in the future, how in the world did the flowers in Aerith's church suddenly die in less than a day? Especially in a location that's known to be the one area of Midgar that's filled with spirit energy? That's why they thrive there in the first place.

 

[Roundhouse]

Discord peeps are pointing out something else that is interesting....apparently the new Stamp is evident through Yuffie's stuff, which would mean that Yuffie is also in the alt timeline if we use Stamp as the indicator for that?

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Very interesting point about the flowers!

Looks more like the flowers got stomped on because Aerith wasn't there to make sure that nobody steps on them

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Over and above the different versions of Stamp; the wilted flowers; the calendar dates; what the Ultimania said; and even the visuals from the ending of FFVIIR: one thing that's being overlooked that points to these being separate timelines? Two Buster Swords.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Discord peeps are pointing out something else that is interesting....apparently the new Stamp is evident through Yuffie's stuff, which would mean that Yuffie is also in the alt timeline if we use Stamp as the indicator for that?

Wait but I saw beagle stamp, some teacher was telling kids a story about him and a mog or something

 

[a_apple 2.0]

That doesn't make sense because Zack's last stand happened in September (during Crisis Core) and the party's escape from Midgar happened in December (during FFVII). People are somehow forgetting these events happened at completely different times, even within the same timeline.

For these events to somehow be in sync in the current time period, Zack would have to have been catapulted several months into the future immediately, without his knowledge, despite the fact we see him going to Midgar and arriving there as shown in the ending of the game, during his point in time. In Crisis Core. He goes from battling for his life, defeating the Shinra Army, carrying Cloud, passing the FFVII party, and reaching Midgar.

Cloud and the others pass Zack leaving Midgar, during December. CC Zack and Cloud pass the main characters, during September. Zack having a day or two to recover makes perfect sense, if you look at it from his temporal existence.

If you make it to where Zack is now suddenly in the future, how in the world did the flowers in Aerith's church suddenly die in less than a day? Especially in a location that's known to be the one area of Midgar that's filled with spirit energy? That's why they thrive there in the first place.

I could see it that Zack was so badly hurt after he arrived in Midgar that he was out for a couple of months. After he was healed up he went to Aerith's church, the flowers don't look withered to me they look more like people stepped on them because Aerith isn't there to make sure people don't step on them

 

[Makoeyes987]

Looks more like the flowers got stomped on because Aerith wasn't there to make sure that nobody steps on them

They're brown, which means they're wilting. Dying. That's not from humans stepping on them. We've seen people step on the flowers and they never looked like that before. Especially not in less than a day.

Discord peeps are pointing out something else that is interesting....apparently the new Stamp is evident through Yuffie's stuff, which would mean that Yuffie is also in the alt timeline if we use Stamp as the indicator for that?

I'm purposefully avoiding the Yuffie stuff to leave that for my own playthrough, but if that's true then yeah. Yuffie is inhabiting the other timeline during the corresponding events of FFVII-R that are experienced by Cloud and the others in their timeline.

I have no idea if that's true or not, why that'd be the case, etc. But if it is, then it is. If that's the case then clearly dimensional distortion is at work. Maybe this is a consequence of all the Arbiters being destroyed.

I could see it that Zack was so badly hurt after he arrived in Midgar that he was out for a couple of months. After he was healed up he went to Aerith's church

So Cloud and the others sat on the side of the road for 3 months, until Zack got better and visited the church???

This is why the theory that Zack and the others are moving parallel to each other in the same time period makes no sense.

Wait but I saw beagle stamp, some teacher was telling kids a story about him and a mog or something

Well thank you for that clarification

 

[Theozilla]

Over and above the different versions of Stamp; the wilted flowers; the calendar dates; what the Ultimania said; and even the visuals from the ending of FFVIIR: one thing that's being overlooked that points to these being separate timelines? Two Buster Swords.

Though the two Clouds and two Buster Swords could potentially be existing in the same timeline if Zack and CC!Cloud are some temporal anomaly, that (at least for now) is allowing for two of the same things existing in the same reality.

That said, I think alternate separate timelines seems the more likely scenario at the moment.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

So how does the Zirconiade event along with Sector 6 plate-fall fit now here? Is everything still same for REMAKE?

End of September
· Zack is killed in the wastelands on the outskirts of Midgar. Cloud inherits the Buster Sword and head toward Midgar.


10/5
· The Turks defeat renegade AVALANCHE leader Fuhito and the summon Zirconaide. Elfe, the former leader of AVALANCHE is ostensibly executed along with her father, Veld, but their deaths are actually faked.


· Due to the destruction of Zirconaide, an imbalance in the planet’s ecology is created and the Jade Weapon awakens. It pursues the now exiled Turks who defeated the summon, judging them as threats to the planet.
[Translation note: the following event occurs on an as-yet unidentified date between Zack’s death and 12/9]
· Tifa is reunited with Cloud at the train station in the slums of Sector 7. Feeling that his speech and conduct are strange, she invites him into AVALANCHE so that she can keep an eye on his condition for a while.
12/9
· The renegade Turks destroy the Jade Weapon.
· FFVII Begins

The Turks head to Midgar to rescue Veld. Fuhito and Avalanche invade the city to track down the Turks and seize the support materia. Using Elena as a hostage, Avalanche claims the Turks' support materia while they were given to Shears for safekeeping. On the highways out of Midgar, the Turks find Fuhito and Avalanche amid the process of summoning Zirconiade. The summoning is incomplete because Zirconiade needs more energy. As the player Turk and Fuhito fight, the five materia pieces react to each other, the materia in Elfe removing itself from her body, and the five materia shards fuse. Fuhito seizes the complete summoning materia and rushes to the site of Zirconiade's summoning.

The Turks pursue Fuhito into Midgar as he attempts to get to the site of Zirconiade's appearance. Fuhito inserts the complete Zirconiade materia into his own body and offers himself as a sacrifice to complete the summon. Zirconiade's power transforms Fuhito, the player's Turk defeats him, Shears intercepting Fuhito's final attack on the Turk. Though Fuhito dies, Zirconiade manifests and the Turks head to fight it, battling monsters spawned by Zirconiade that invade Midgar. Transported into a pocket dimension, the Turks destroy Zirconiade by unleashing a Limit Break, saving the planet.
Though Zirconiade is destroyed, its summoning had an unexpected side effect. Sensing a threat, the planet reacted to Zirconiade's summoning by releasing a Weapon, Jade Weapon, to destroy it. With Zirconiade destroyed by the Turks, Jade Weapon begins hunting them, judging the Turks too powerful to be left unchecked.

Yup, I've been lurking a bit lately (not a good mood lately, sorry, I've been and am tired...)

 

[a_apple 2.0]

They're brown, which means they're wilting. Dying. That's not from humans stepping on them. We've seen people step on the flowers and they never looked like that before. Especially not in less than a day.



I'm purposefully avoiding the Yuffie stuff to leave that for my own playthrough, but if that's true then yeah. Yuffie is inhabiting the other timeline during the corresponding events of FFVII-R that are experienced by Cloud and the others in their timeline.

I have no idea if that's true or not, why that'd be the case, etc. But if it is, then it is. If that's the case then clearly dimensional distortion is at work. Maybe this is a consequence of all the Arbiters being destroyed.



Well thank you for that clarification

They really don't look brown to me, like I said I think this is more of a reference for Aerith not being there making sure that nobody steps on them. It's to highlight that she is gone

 

[Makoeyes987]

They really don't look brown to me, like I said I thing this is more of a reference for Aerith not being there making sure that nobody steps on them. It's to highlight that she is gone

Omg... Nevermind you took one screencap of the scene. Look at the coloring of the pistils of some of the flowers there. They're dark. A black-brownish color which is not the vibrant healthy pigment they were seen carrying less than a day ago, if we're to believe this Zack is following right behind Cloud and the others.

The flowers are also bent down and drooping. The soil patchy. Classic signs of wiltedness. This isn't what the church looked like less than a day ago. Arguing horticulture seems unnecessary at this point. Those flowers are dying.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Omg... Nevermind you took one screencap of the scene. Look at the coloring of the pistils of some of the flowers there. They're dark. A black-brownish color which is not the vibrant healthy pigment they were seen carrying less than a day ago, if we're to believe this Zack is following right behind Cloud and the others.

The flowers are also bent down and drooping. The soil patchy. Classic signs of wiltedness. This isn't what the church looked like less than a day ago. Arguing horticulture seems unnecessary at this point. Those flowers are dying.

let's agree to disagree on the flower question
Anyway one of the kids you see in the church is literally from the opening sequence

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Though the two Clouds and two Buster Swords could potentially be existing in the same timeline if Zack and CC!Cloud are some temporal anomaly, that (at least for now) is allowing for two of the same things existing in the same reality.

Well, yeah, but at the least, it does settle the debates over whether the Cloud in our party could be that same Cloud who was last seen with Zack. There's been plenty of theorizing that Zack and Cloud became separated, and Zack then left his sword with Cloud.

That said, I think alternate separate timelines seems the more likely scenario at the moment.

I never thought this day would come. ?

So how does the Zirconiade event along with Sector 6 plate-fall fit now here? Is everything still same for REMAKE?

I'm unsure what your question is. Could you elaborate?

As for Sector 6, that happened long before Zack's Last Stand, so it definitely should be unaffected.

 

[Makoeyes987]

People have been stepping on the flowers in the church for years yet they've retained their vibrancy and health. Let's not forget post-Aerith's death and Advent Children the flowers continue to growth healthily and robustly.

We have never seen flowers in Aerith's church droop and wilt. We've never seen patchy soil like that. That is something entirely new in Zack's scenario.

I'll throw my theory out there and say it confidently. This is an omen to the fact that something is seriously wrong with Zack's world. The fact the spirit energy that runs beneath the church is now dwindling away speaks to a crisis, beyond the fact Aerith's not there like he had hoped. This is the start of this new Zack adventure.

 

[Theozilla]

So how does the Zirconiade event along with Sector 6 plate-fall fit now here? Is everything still same for REMAKE?





Yup, I've been lurking a bit lately (not a good mood lately, sorry, I've been and am tired...)

Well the Remake itself stated that the Sector 6 plate partially collapsed many years ago during its construction. Pretty sure that's how its always been, or at least assumed to have been even in the OG.

As for the flowers I have to agree with @a_apple 2.0 they just look stamped down, and thus dying from being squashed. Not dying from already having been wilting.


Also for anyone who hasn't seen it yet, here are the Intermission Ending scenes

Nice to see the return of Chocobo Bill in the Remake too, wonder if he's related to Sam, or just business partners, if at all?

Also curious to see how much Kalm will resemble it's depiction in Dirge of Cerebus, from a distance it looks like it has some of that castle-esque architecture to it.

 

[Eerie]

Discord peeps are pointing out something else that is interesting....apparently the new Stamp is evident through Yuffie's stuff, which would mean that Yuffie is also in the alt timeline if we use Stamp as the indicator for that?

Like, this is huge? It would mean that Intergrade happens because of what happens at the end of Remake? And that there aren't two timelines, but one new that it printing over the old one, redoing some things - like Zack being alive? It also means that Zack is alive but late, there are TWO CLOUD and I'm beginning to think about the implications in the Lifestream, this is going to be h u g e if this is indeed the fact.

Like, OMFG.

 

[Roundhouse]

We need proof though...someone has to find a picture, haha.

 

[Makoeyes987]

As for the flowers I have to agree with @a_apple 2.0 they just look stamped down, and thus dying from being squashed. Not dying from already having been wilting.

Oy vey.

The color of the flowers alone indicate something has happened to them. The close up shows them carrying a distinctly dull, lifeless color. They're drooping. Why would they show that close up?

And let's say what you're saying is the case... How would they have gotten to that state so quickly, in less than a day? They didn't look like that during the Remake.

Like, this is huge? It would mean that Intergrade happens because of what happens at the end of Remake? And that there aren't two timelines, but one new that it printing over the old one, redoing some things - like Zack being alive? It also means that Zack is alive but late, there are TWO CLOUD and I'm beginning to think about the implications in the Lifestream, this is going to be h u g e if this is indeed the fact.

It's not though. Because in one of the preview videos for Intermission you do see the normal Stamp being shown to some children. I forgot about that.

 

[Roundhouse]

What if both are shown, Mako?

 

[Theozilla]

Oy vey.

The color of the flowers alone indicate something has happened to them. The close up shows them carrying a distinctly dull, lifeless color. They're drooping. Why would they show that close up?

And let's say what you're saying is the case... How would they have gotten to that state so quickly, in less than a day? They didn't look like that during the Remake.

Well probably because the flowers in the Remake are just real time rendered assets, and the Intermission ending scene appears to be pre-rendered. And being smooshed changes a flower's hue/colors if the smooshing was fatal to a flower (also the flowers don't look very brown to me, or even slightly brown IMO).

 

[Makoeyes987]

What if both are shown, Mako?

Are you going to keep tossing hypotheticals at me?

If that happens, that'd be extremely unusual. It'd mean that the dimensions crossed or something.

Well probably because the flowers in the Remake are just real time rendered assets, and the Intermission ending scene appears to be pre-rendered. And being smooshed changes a flower's hue/colors if the smooshing was fatal to a flower (also the flowers don't look very brown to me, or even slightly brown IMO).

I'm gonna smoosh you!!!

Just kidding, just kidding

I don't know what to say because given the vastly different appearances, they don't look the same as they did earlier, and I certainly don't think it's attributable to graphics. This is the PS5, I'm not going to just brush off clear visual cues as simply errors in graphical fidelity. The flowerbed doesn't look as full here. That close up zoom of the flowers shows the flowers bent over, in classic wilted position.

Why would the equivalent of a Riverdance have happened on the flowers? And people have stepped on the flowers before. We've seen what the flowers have looked like with no one taking care of them through FFVII and AC.

They didn't look like that. Something is different.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

So what about the kid?

 

[Eerie]

For the flowers, it's definitely a lighting thing. They appear like this because of the lighting.

It's not though. Because in one of the preview videos for Intermission you do see the normal Stamp being shown to some children. I forgot about that.

What if it means that both timelines coexist in the same one though? Because Remake still has the old Stamp I guess, only Intergrade has the new one. So there would be a mix of both Stamps, indicating a mix of both timelines.

It's really interesting because Zack arrives too late. I think that's why there are discrepancies too in what we see - the 7th Heaven logo, for example, possibly the plate - but with Zack arriving too late, they allow the FFVII storyline to go on.

Us seeing Zack and Cloud crossing paths without seeing each other indicated strongly a parallel universe. But what if it simply meant that they cross paths at different times? I've always said that only Zack could save Aerith, but for him to follow the party, isn't it going to be difficult?

 

[a_apple 2.0]

For the flowers, it's definitely a lighting thing. They appear like this because of the lighting.



What if it means that both timelines coexist in the same one though? Because Remake still has the old Stamp I guess, only Intergrade has the new one. So there would be a mix of both Stamps, indicating a mix of both timelines.

It's really interesting because Zack arrives too late. I think that's why there are discrepancies too in what we see - the 7th Heaven logo, for example, possibly the plate - but with Zack arriving too late, they allow the FFVII storyline to go on.

Us seeing Zack and Cloud crossing paths without seeing each other indicated strongly a parallel universe. But what if it simply meant that they cross paths at different times? I've always said that only Zack could save Aerith, but for him to follow the party, isn't it going to be difficult?

Does anyone have the image of terrier Stamp tho?

 

[Maidenofwar]

I don't know why refugees would be in Aerith's church all of a sudden .... we get to go back to the church for the Kyrie event ... and then after that there is an old couple praying. Unless it's some kind of gameplay/story segregation thing