SPOILERS INTERmission Chapter 2 Spoiler Discussion

[Makoeyes987]

Probably why any CG by Visual Works uses different models for everything, presumably because you can't just dump the in-engine stuff into whatever they use to animate that shit and call it a day
Which makes more sense than this half-destroyed chuch being squeaky clean white for years but suddenly turning "brown" within the few months between CC and VII. And it's not even that, it's literally just the lighting.

Again, this is Stamp's friends territory for me.

No, this believing what is clearly visually demonstrated to us.

Again, why would they go through the effort of creating entirely new textures, for a location that has textures already made which match how the church looks in FFVII-R?

These churches are not the same with at least 6 differences now pointed out. The church's appearance is different from multiple angles, including the symbol behind the alter having an entirely different wood paneling appearance that is opposite of how it appears in FFVII-R. Again, why would they make that different?

Especially when it matches how it looks in Crisis Core.

The church clearly changes over time to appear different from Crisis Core to FFVII, which this now demonstrates in the Remake. Which makes sense, given Zack has just come back from the final battle of Crisis Core. This time alive.

 

[Eerie]

So, let me put it this way: FFVII Remake happens in an alternate timeline to the OG and CC, and Zack is still in the original timeline?

 

[Makoeyes987]

So, let me put it this way: FFVII Remake happens in an alternate timeline to the OG and CC, and Zack is still in the original timeline?

Zack being alive would be the alternate timeline given that... He's not supposed to be alive and survived only thanks to Cloud and the others destroying the Whispers in Part 1.

What Zack is experiencing is new. He never made it back to the Midgar to visit Aerith again.

But now she's not there and people are in the church crying.

 

[Tetsujin]

No, this believing what is clearly visually demonstrated to us.

Like how Remake's ending clearly visually demonstrated that Zack survived his encounter, right?

Again, why would they go through the effort of creating entirely new textures, for a location that has textures already made which match how the church looks in FFVII-R?

These churches are not the same. They are different from multiple angles, including the symbol behind the alter having an entirely different wood paneling appearance that is opposite of how it appears in FFVII-R. Again, why would they make that different?

I literally just explained it. The main characters also have entirely different models in CG and minor differences in facial structure. Most people complain that Cloud and Aerith look off in their CGs compared to in-game. Inconsistencies happen.

Especially when it matches how it looks in Crisis Core.

You keep saying that and yet the one image you posted actually looks less like the Remake church.

 

[Shademp]

The simplest explanation to me is that Visual Works (apparently they have changed their name to Square Enix Image Studio Division, yeah sorry that's not gonna stick ) were given visual references from most of FF7 franchise history, but ultimately they decided to take their own liberties with the church designs because that's what creative artists do: Take liberties and pride in doing their own work. If the divisions of Square was adamant on Visual Works to copy the designs from the real-time renderings, then there wouldn't be such a gap between how our main characters look in-engine versus how they look in FMVs.

I take this as a sign that other divisions in Square are not comfortable with walking up to the SE Image Studio Division and saying "HEY, DON'T DETRACT! COPY THE PLANS EXACTLY FROM THE REAL-TIME STUFF!"

Let us also not forget Rule #1 of Midgar: If it doesn't show design/architectural inconsistencies between scenes, it's not a TRUE Midgar.

 

[Eerie]

No. What I mean is: if the church in Zack's timeline is more reminiscent to the church in CC, then the Remake church makes *no sense*. It should not be *that* different from the church in CC, but it is. So the Remake timeline can only be a parallel universe to the OG and the CC timelines.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The simplest explanation to me is that Visual Works (apparently they have changed their name to Square Enix Image Studio Division, yeah sorry that's not gonna stick ) were given reference from most of FF7 franchise history, but ultimately they decided to take their own liberties with the church designs because that's what creative artists do: Take liberties and pride in doing their own work. If the divisions of Square was adamant on Visual Works to copy the designs from the real-time renderings, then there wouldn't be such a gap between how our main characters look in-engine versus how they look in FMVs.

And why would there be an inconsistency like that when they've went straight to designing Intermission after completing FFVII-R? Numerous visual cues and call backs exist that tie the church to Crisis Core's design (in a scene with Zack no less) yet you think that's by accident/coincidence? These aren't character models, these are textures that are opposite in appearance. Textures that show a church in disrepair and dilapidation. And textures that show a church in a newer, cleaner and brighter light.

After we've seen how much painstaking detail was made to recreate the locations from FFVII, such as the Shinra Building, Wall Market, etc, you think that they somehow accidentally made one church clean and reminiscent of CC, while another is dilapidated and brown like FFVII?

There is consistency. It's just with a past church reminiscent of Crisis Core, which just so happens to be when Zack's final battle took place, where he then he began marching towards Midgar to see Aerith.

No. What I mean is: if the church in Zack's timeline is more reminiscent to the church in CC, then the Remake church makes *no sense*. It should not be *that* different from the church in CC, but it is. So the Remake timeline can only be a parallel universe to the OG and the CC timelines.

The church has changed in every depiction of the Compilation of FFVII. It changing from how it looked in Crisis Core to now is not that unusual.

 

[Shademp]

It was humorous to watch Intermission while believing that I had been spoiled about Genesis appearing at the end. In actuality I had just misinterpreted what somebody else said online. I still believe that Genesis will appear sooner or later in the FF7R series, but because I was expecting a Genesis revealed I ended up *almost* feeling like Intermission didn't have enough surprises.

 

[Eerie]

The church has changed in every depiction of the Compilation of FFVII. It changing from how it looked in Crisis Core to now is not that unusual.

In short, if there is a universe merging, it will be a new church... so it makes sense in that perspective. And I still think it's something ala skybox error, due to the CGI team lol.

 

[waw]

I don't even understand the argument. Passage of time? When is this supposed to take place then? Years in the past?

Idk, I'm applying Occam's Razor. Lighting differences and the fact that Visual Works uses different models for the CG than the in-game stuff account for the minor differences.

Any other argument just leads to Stamp's friends nonsense.

Zack's Death and Cloud's Midgar arrival happens at what... September something, right?
And the Midgar Escape/plate fall happens in early December.

So in theory, if Zack survived his fight and heads straight to the church, it could look a bit fresher by a manner of months/weeks. Yes, the developer could chalk up these changes to time. Maybe Zack gets so pissed, he throws out the pews and puts a big whole in the floor.

Or, there's parallel universes here with small differences between them and the game is highlighting those on purpose.

Or...

The simplest explanation to me is that Visual Works (apparently they have changed their name to Square Enix Image Studio Division, yeah sorry that's not gonna stick ) were given visual references from most of FF7 franchise history, but ultimately they decided to take their own liberties with the church designs because that's what creative artists do

As Shademp said, there's NOTHING significant going on here whatsoever and it's just developer's rendering that creates the issues we see. Mako's theory isn't confirmed, but this is a head scratcher, and if it's an accident, it's quite the weird one.

No. What I mean is: if the church in Zack's timeline is more reminiscent to the church in CC, then the Remake church makes *no sense*. It should not be *that* different from the church in CC, but it is. So the Remake timeline can only be a parallel universe to the OG and the CC timelines.

I hope y'all are ready. FF7 Remake Part 7 will be a Crisis of 7 Gaias (a la DC's Crisis of Infinite Earths) with a Legion of Doom consisting entirely of Sephiroths show up to collapse all of reality/FF7 multiverses into one FFSephi-verse. Clouds upon Clouds will show up allowing you to have a Cloud Party as you fight. But don't worry, the realities will all converge afterward. There'll be the Original Timeline Cloud now going by Nimbus (and later, we'll find out an evil version survived, going by Cumulous).

The Sephiroths will do the Fusion Dance and being Seephiroth a la Luuke or some crazy shit....

OR, it's just some art errors that are incredibly misleading. I have an on going theory that fans catch way more details than creators intend! It's a very original theory.

That said, I hope Mako is right on this one.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Ironically, I thought the Stamp design change between the one in the ending and the entire game itself was simply a meaningless difference.

Yet that was proven false.

The designers/artists aren't as careless as you make them out to be. If you wish to believe that an entirely different church with textures, layout and motifs reminiscent of Crisis Core is a result of errors with no intentionality... Then as confirmed before, you'll be surprised.

They clearly didn't make that church with zero planning, intention or meaning. They make effort to call attention to differences concerning Zack given his significance, as shown with Stamp before. And this is clearly evocative of that.

As Shademp said, there's NOTHING significant going on here whatsoever and it's just developer's rendering that creates the issues we see. Mako's theory isn't confirmed, but this is a head scratcher, and if it's an accident, it's quite the weird one.

The significance is the fact Zack made it to Midgar's Sector 5 Church alive. And he's looking for Aerith but she's gone and in her place are a bunch of people crying. Seemingly in mourning.

You think that's meaningless?

OR, it's just some art errors that are incredibly misleading. I have an on going theory that fans catch way more details than creators intend! It's a very original theory.

Even at their worst, the writers never pull meaningless or misleading shit like that. So again, I am extremely doubtful that the designers just happened to coincidentally manifest a church that's brighter, cleaner and evocative of CC with no meaning attached to it. In a scene with Zack, no less.

 

[waw]

The designers/artists aren't as careless as you make them out to be. If you wish to believe that an entirely different church with textures, layout and motifs reminiscent of Crisis Core is a result of errors with no intentionality...
You think that's meaningless?

Sometimes I wonder if you actually read posts other than your own. I've been very supportive of your theory and helped point out some of these differences. Nothing you've posted though confirms an alternate timeline or intentionality, or discrepencies by design in this case. I agree, I think it will be the case, but if we start pulling in all the art differences by different art teams at different generations, we'll end up in a series of multiverses that are totally different because each of these discrepencies.

How do I say this? It's strong evidence, but not proof? Does that help? I could see these all being errors, but I don't really believe that'll be the case. Do you understand?

The "nothing significant" is in the church changes only. I really shouldn't have to clarify that, that's all I talked about.

 

[Lestat]

Nothing is confirmed until it's confirmed.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sometimes I wonder if you actually read posts other than your own. I've been very supportive of your theory and helped point out some of these differences. Nothing you've posted though confirms an alternate timeline or intentionality, or discrepencies by design in this case. I agree, I think it will be the case, but if we start pulling in all the art differences by different art teams at different generations, we'll end up in a series of multiverses that are totally different because each of these discrepencies.

How do I say this? It's strong evidence, but not proof? Does that help? I could see these all being errors, but I don't really believe that'll be the case. Do you understand?

The "nothing significant" is in the church changes only. I really shouldn't have to clarify that, that's all I talked about.

Ummm.... I wasn't responding to you there.

That was actually in response to Shademp because his post was right underneath mine and I cba to quote it, however because posts were made while typing mine, the layout changed. But no, I wasn't replying to you there. Because yes, I am in agreement with you, lol

The parts quoted in my post were in direct response to you.

 

[Tetsujin]

I mean for one thing I think claiming it's *entirely* different is not even accurate. There are very minor differences and they don't call attention to them like they did with Stamp.

There are a way bigger inconsistencies that are in the game where they just didn't give a fuck

Like sector 7 being buried completely under the plate and yet the slums are still there with nary a hint of the mountain of rubble that should, at the very least, surround the slums if it didn't entirely bury them.

Yes I'm still salty about this like where the fuck is it

 

[Shademp]

Looking forward to the Ultimania translations to settle all these matters...

Like sector 7 being buried completely under the plate and yet the slums are still there with nary a hint of the mountain of rubble that should, at the very least, surround the slums if it didn't entirely bury them.

^...except for this part, obviously. No Ultimania will even attempt to salvage a reasonable explanation for these oddities. It is known since Dirge of Cerberus lore of old that the Sector 7 plate magically disappeared and nothing underneath was crushed.

 

[Odysseus]

Somebody picked up the pizza slice before it went bad. 5 second rule.

 

[Theozilla]

There's also a sector 6 plate above sector 7 in the ending, so

Sigh, this and the Sector 5 slums having the Sector 6 slums skybox will always bug me. I wonder if it just hasn’t been noticed by SE? Or if they have noticed, do they just not care enough to put resources into correcting it? Or is there some scene breaking deal in regards to the lighting that requires the Sector 6 slums’ skybox to be reused where it shouldn’t be? (it’s especially befuddling when some of the early trailers did show the Sector 5 slums with the correct plate above for its skybox l)

 

[Shademp]

Oh and the rubble reflected in Yuffie's eye was just rubble all along.

imactingastonished.jpg
surprisedpikachuface.jpg

 

[Odysseus]

If anybody wants to use the INTERmission (not that dumb weapon) code that came with my physical game disc, here:

MEKK-C2NF-5KHL

I already just bought it on PSN because I'm stupid, so I don't need this code. Even if you don't have a PS5 you can still redeem it on PSN for later probably.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Some things regarding Whispers and Timelines I want to see people's reactions too...

When Zack has his Last Stand in Remake, the Whispers are never around him. They are only around the Troopers. Does this mean the Whispers aren't interfering in Zack's fate?

Zack "wins" the Last Stand *before* the Whisper Dome dissipates. The Whisper Dome dissipating does not cause Zack to win the Last Stand. Does this mean Zack "wins" the Last Stand *in spite* of the Whispers rather than *because* of them?

The Whisper Dome is first created in the "present" of Remake while Cloud and Co. are at the Highway. But then we see it in the Past with Zack as well. Could it mean that the Whisper Dome is a 4th Dimensional "object"?

When we see Cloud and Co. on the cliff in the Wasteland. It is mid-morning (at least). Given they went into the Singularity in the dead of night, is it possible the Singularity deposited them into the future by a few hours rather than where/when they should have been if they had never gone into the Singularity?

Zack's Last Stand, the cleaning up of Sector 7, and Biggs waking up all show the same golden particles of the dissipating Whisper Dome. Do all these happen at the same time?

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Welp! Upon defeating Weiss in the VR Room... You get this...

 

[waw]

The parts quoted in my post were in direct response to you.

Just gonna see myself out over here.... XD My apologies!

I really hope this isn't the case of art accident and it's important to it all somehow. God, I'd love a Zack-led party.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Welp! Upon defeating Weiss in the VR Room... You get this...

So Hojo had his hooks in Weiss this early, huh?

Or maybe, Hojo was "playing" Weiss' combat simulator data, ala a fighting game?

 

[Tetsujin]

"Eitherway, see you in Deepground."