SPOILERS INTERmission Chapter 2 Spoiler Discussion

[Alex Strife]

But than what was Aerith's line about of suddenly having a weird feeling and than a moment later we are shown Zack how he is looking for her?

If I recall correctly, in the Japanese she says "Oh, suddenly I feel anxious". That was my take at the time. She was feeling anxious. Considering the things she says about the sky, the fact that it is likely that she had not felt rain over her while in Midgar, etc. it would make sense.

Not saying it can't be otherwise! Just that this is how I see it.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

I like how none of this speculation is even about what Zack's role in the story will be, it's all just about the very nature of his being at the moment.

Her line about "where's a ceiling when you need one?" To me makes it seem like a reference to her fear of the sky. Cloud asks if she's going to be okay because he knows about it.

In the japanese line she says "Weird, I suddenly feel uneasy" so it seems to be something unusual for her to experience in that moment and you have to keep in mind that the game then cuts over to Zack so it seems to be a deliberate choice of her saying that line.

 

[cold_spirit]

Here's @aitaikimochi's English translation of the Japanese scene.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1403033244774195200

 

[a_apple 2.0]

If I recall correctly, in the Japanese she says "Oh, suddenly I feel anxious". That was my take at the time. She was feeling anxious. Considering the things she says about the sky, the fact that it is likely that she had not felt rain over her while in Midgar, etc. it would make sense.

Not saying it can't be otherwise! Just that this is how I see it.

I think the way how the scene goes is just to deliberate to assume she is just referencing her fear of the sky even more so when you consider that she was totally fine through out the entire day

 

[Alex Strife]

[...] you have to keep in mind that the game then cuts over to Zack so it seems to be a deliberate choice of her saying that line.

That's what "red herrings" are, though! Making you think something's going to go in one direction, but actually...

 

[KindOfBlue]

But than what was Aerith's line about of suddenly having a weird feeling and than a moment later we are shown Zack how he is looking for her?

(Also did anyone else realized that there seems to be some kind of connection happening between Aerith and Zack everytime it rains? First in Crisis Core when Zack croaks, than we see it happening again in part one at the ending when she crosses paths with him and now again in the new ending)

I mean the knot in her stomach thing is surely something to do with Zack being alive, but the exaxt timing of how these events line up isn’t always clear. I still think Zack arrived to the church at some point after the platefall, but we don’t know when exactly compared to where Cloud and company are at the same point in time.

 

[Odysseus]

Probably worth pointing out that they reach Kalm towards sunset while it's midday with Zack in Midgar.

 

[kathy202]

When Aerith said that, I thought it was just travel anxiety. She's never left Midgar before, and now she's about to walk into another city. But reading the posts here, with the rain and all that, I guess it's probably something about Zack. Just didn't seem particularly obvious to me even when rewatching it.

 

[Shademp]

Assuming Zack has not suddenly jumped forwards in time, then Zack's return to Midgar is either still at the end of September or at the beginning of October, [ν] – εуλ 0007. This coincides with the summoning of Zirconiade, so one possible role Zack might play is him getting thrown into the battle against Fuhito and Zirconiade along with the Turks.

I doubt that is what will happen but it would be a neat way to show the ending to both old Avalanche and the old Turks guard. Fighting as Zack, with Cissnei by your side, would be pretty sweet.

This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the distressed people Zack find at the church. Just throwing ideas out there as to Zack's general potential role.

 

[Eerie]

Maximilian's poiting out some interesting things; Aerith's dead - the kids aren't hurt except one, and they're all crying. And we know the kids loved her so it makes sense. In Zack's timeline, Aerith's dead. He's saying SE's going full on with "you have the last Cetra alive, and she's going to die" ouch.

Also pointing out that we're going to see Roche wilting out, that we're going to see what the SOLDIER program did to people.

 

[Shademp]

What if the very explosion that occurred because the Whispers got destroyed, the one powerful enough to send Zack flying even though he was out in the wastelands, is the explosion that killed Aerith? That would be a cruel twist.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

If Aerith is, as many have speculated, an Aerith who has somehow travelled backwards in time, then she doesn't exist in time in the same way that mortal humans do, which means her feelings and Zack's actions don't have to happen simultaneously (in human time) in order to be synchronous in her time.

 

[Odysseus]

Seeing as they are clearly not afraid of Dirge of Cerberus material, I wonder if they're going to take the opportunity to patch up the biggest plot hole with that game in regards to the original.

Hojo's plan to steal Weiss' body and become a vessel for Omega is initiated upon him seeing Vincent turn into Chaos and realizing Lucrecia's thesis was true. He expressly credits this as the reason he chose to inject himself with Jenova cells at the Mako cannon. The problem is... there's no point in the game before the mako cannon where he could possibly have seen Vincent do that.

Since Chaos has been more strongly tied to Vincent in Dirge, I wonder if he'll be able to transform into chaos when under duress (not as a proper limit break until later) and Hojo will put him into such a situation in a new scene and see it happen. The VR boss in the Yuffie DLC and the cutscene after you beat Weiss seem to imply he's already messing around with some of these ideas.

 

[cold_spirit]

Maximilian's poiting out some interesting things; Aerith's dead - the kids aren't hurt except one, and they're all crying. And we know the kids loved her so it makes sense. In Zack's timeline, Aerith's dead.

Okay, I can start to see this.

Wild theory, just something I think would be cool:

Throughout Remake, Aerith appears to already be aware that Sephiroth has returned. We also don't know when Aerith began seeing the Whispers (Nomura dodged that question during an interview). What if these two things are related? Perhaps Sephiroth made an attempt on Aerith's life before the events of the game. The Whispers intervened to save her. Contact with the Whispers gave Aerith visions of the future and the ability to see them. Later, Aerith unknowingly spreads this ability to others, ironically leading to the Whispers defeat. As a consequence, Sephiroth is free to carry out his plan in Zack's timeline, taking her life.

 

[eleamaya]

Maximilian's pointing out some interesting things; Aerith's dead - the kids aren't hurt except one, and they're all crying. And we know the kids loved her so it makes sense. In Zack's timeline, Aerith's dead. He's saying SE's going full on with "you have the last Cetra alive, and she's going to die" ouch.

If that happened, Nojima implemented Laguna's story to Zack in this timeline. Keep separating from the women he loves and particularly with Raine, he returns only to find out that she's already dead. But this works to have a separate adventure of FF7 double heroes as well as FF8.

 

[Eerie]

I'm really hoping that the next novel will clear out when did Aerith begin to see the whispers. Did she already see them when she was a kid? Or did she begin to see them after a while? When she had visions about her drawing in the Shinra tower, or when they stopped (caused by the whispers)? If we think about it, pretty logically, there must be an event that started it all, especially since Nomura is a bit of an arse with it, we can guess that it's an information that is important AND going to be released, either in a novel, either in game (or both). That's really something that makes me think... just how much did they have an impact on her life up until now? I'm reminded of her words, how she loses herself in a maze, and I still wonder if that's like... the Lifestream flow of information (from far back in the past to far away in the future), there is so much and she doesn't know where to look, only the flowers can guide her since she is the last of the Cetras but hasn't been taught by Ilfana. I feel that this speech in chapter 17 is the key to understand it all.

And @eleamaya yes, Maximilian mentioned Laguna's story as a parallel. I do think that the start of FFVII/Remake is basically the time when they get separated, only to get reunited by death. Their love is tragic like that. Before that they 'could' be reunited (technically, one being alive didn't mean the other could only be dead, even if the events prevented them to get reunited), but once FFVII's story kicks in, there is no way that they can be both alive at the same time. And to sum it up, I do think that they're both up to die *again*, to the fans' great dismay. And yet, if one could save Aerith, that would be Zack - but this is something that cannot happen. It's the whole tragedy of that pair. Prepare your handkerchieves.

 

[Edley]

What if the party crossed unkowingly from Beagle to Terrier at the end of remake?

 

[Odysseus]

Yuffie never went through destiny's crossroads, and i doubt we'd get a different Yuffie that joins the party from the DLC one. Also all the other characters besides the main party, too. There's clearly something going on with Rufus.

 

[Edley]

Oh I know it's easily debunkable, but what if two Clouds show up to the reunion at Northern Crater?

 

[Eerie]

Yeah I don't think there's a crossing lines thing. I think at the very end of the spectrum of possibilities, we do have a "merging realities" ala what Nomura already did in another game apparently (KH series?). But the bet is clearly safer with two timelines (even if I enjoy looking at the merging realities one because my brain works like that, and who doesn't like poking at Mako lol).

The thing is, if we expect Zack to be there in another reality... then at *some point* he will have to interact with the "OG" timeline. It makes no sense to have him there, on an alternate reality, and to do nothing with it (because he's not the hero, we're not going to focus on his story).

To me the merging realities does have the appeal of solving how tf does Zack rejoin the party. Because they are in the same world now, so it's easily solvable, unlike the second timeline where Aerith has to juggle with another singularity to maybe bring him back? Unlikely. The two Cloud in Northern Crater would be absolutely siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick and a big reason why I'm not letting the merging worlds theory die just yet lol (I did say my brain liked that kind of puzzles didn't I? XD).

 

[Edley]

Remake Part Deux: Schrodinger's Zack.

 

[eleamaya]

And @eleamaya yes, Maximilian mentioned Laguna's story as a parallel. I do think that the start of FFVII/Remake is basically the time when they get separated, only to get reunited by death. Their love is tragic like that. Before that they 'could' be reunited (technically, one being alive didn't mean the other could only be dead, even if the events prevented them to get reunited), but once FFVII's story kicks in, there is no way that they can be both alive at the same time. And to sum it up, I do think that they're both up to die *again*, to the fans' great dismay. And yet, if one could save Aerith, that would be Zack - but this is something that cannot happen. It's the whole tragedy of that pair. Prepare your handkerchieves.

I ship Zerith since AC knowing them as ghost so... that kind of story for them would still be appealing to me. And I really imagine any scenario that does not just end up as "oh they would be happily ever after, married, and have kids" haha nope. Aside from few wishful thinkings I already have to imagine how their story, after Intermission ending, I keep one scenario that Aerith in Zack's universe perhaps was already dead, and we already know that Zack in her timeline is dead. But I really really hope that they would keep sensing each other's presence since their love is strong, and while Aerith prefers to focus on her role 'cause deep in heart she knew so well it's impossible to meet this Zack from another universe, this leads Zack's motivation to go on journey to find a way to reunite since he would never give up on her. And this drives the story on his side that probably also affects Cloud's world and at one point, it'd be converged. But the real reunion? Only in death.

 

[Shademp]

Hojo's plan to steal Weiss' body and become a vessel for Omega is initiated upon him seeing Vincent turn into Chaos and realizing Lucrecia's thesis was true. He expressly credits this as the reason he chose to inject himself with Jenova cells at the Mako cannon. The problem is... there's no point in the game before the mako cannon where he could possibly have seen Vincent do that.

My bet remains that this scene where Hojo sees Vincent transform into Chaos will happen at the Northern Crater in the minutes before, during or after The Reunion takes place. Vincent is there and so is Hojo. Perhaps Vincent ends up unwillingly transforming into Chaos, due to this form resonating with the awakening of the other Weapon at the Northern Crater. This could happen when everybody is escaping to the Highwind, right after Cloud has given the Black Materia to Sephiroth.

 

[waw]

Furthermore, I think the appearance of Hojo at the conclusion of Weiss' fight is meant to set up him beginning to take an interest in Weiss as a SOLDIER, and the subject of digitization of consciousness. The experiment was to replicate Weiss's strength and consciousness via data and then import it into the Combat Simulator network. Hojo more than likely oversaw that experiment or may have even tested it out. But it clearly seems to lay the groundwork for Hojo's scheme to cheat death.

I honestly expect the digitization tech to be something President Shinra expected to use to live forever. He's big enough egomaniac and hates Rufus enough to never want to pass on or believe he has a true heir. He likes showing up as a hologram. Having his mind downloaded, living forever in Neo-Midgar as the eternal president seems like a plausible goal for this guy.

Hojo was just his tool to achieve it but Hojo had his own plans. #headcanon

Zack Stuff

I expect we'll see Zack being pinned as a sort of Last Whisper meant to fix the timeline or save things and he'll get to reunite with and/or save Aerith. I know, folks expect her to still die, and I could see that happening and it's a very important plot element. But if Zack lives, he'll save Aerith. Even if it means sacrificing himself.

If Zack is in the Remake timeline/universe, Aerith won't die.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I finally realized what people meant by Cloud and Aerith's appearance in the ending CGI when the streamer I was watching got to that part. At first I had just been seeing the HQ stills and they still looked yummy to me especially Aerith and even video recordings I couldn't really tell but yeah watching it being streamed on twitch I now get why some aren't happy with the way they look in the CGI