Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge's Roles in the Remake Thread

[Ite]

re: Bechdel test, it’s something that is hard to unsee. Both characters have to have names as well.

@Pandemonium yeah I just caught that watching my wife play through. Poor Jessie, Cloud was such a jerk to her! The “help a girl out” line still feels inhuman to me, but the rest being her nerves is really good

 

[ForceStealer]

Well she *was* being a bit annoying by that point, haha. And once she explained that she had to keep talking Cloud says it's fine then.

Also were you trying to tag Odysseus? I can't find a pandemonium post, lol

 

[Jairus]

I like Ody's thought that her flirting could be a bit of a coping mechanism because she's nervous - but perhaps her nerves aren't just about the mission, but also about being around Cloud. She likes him, and maybe the flirting helps her not feel quite so nervous around him and lets her actually talk to him. In that regard, she may be more like her OG self, who did have a certain timidity regarding her feelings for him.

Oh, and did anyone else think that her line - "Keep those baby blues on me!" had a double meaning? Like, aside from wanting to help him through the lasers, she was also flirting with him and inviting him to get closer to her and give her attention and interest. At least, that's the impression I got.

 

[Erotic Materia]

Yes, it will be interesting to see if the Remake passes the Bechdel test.

Huh. Never heard of this before now. I like it.

I took her ultra flirtatious-ness to be a bit of a coping mechanism to keep her nerves down during the mission. I know the "I've got to keep talking or I'll freak out" line was specifically during the escape sequence, but I figure she was more nervous than she was letting on during the entire bombing run.

I didn't get that vibe. From the get-go, she seemed confident and self-assured. No one else seems surprised about the way she's acting. The only time she showed any nervousness was when the reactor was literally collapsing around her, i.e. she was in immediate danger. I'm of the mind that she's a flirt because she's a flirt. She meets this hunky, spiky-haired SOULJA-BOY and likes what she sees. And maybe the adrenaline rush of the potentially-suicidal act of infiltrating and bombing a mako reactor is a good way to kill inhibitions.

 

[Jairus]

Yeah, I can see that about her, EM. We'll see how she is during the escape and on the train. Maybe, with the danger behind them, her flirtatiousness might be a little less over the top and a bit more reserved since the situation would be calmer by then. Might lead to the beginning of her feelings going beyond just the flirting as she spends time with him there - alone in the cargo car and then going over the map monitor with him. And whatever else new that might have been added.

 

[Jessie Rito]

I'd like to add something about the relationship between Biggs and Jessie:
In the german version of the remake demo their conversation after cloud talking about the mission being a one time gig goes like this:
B:" He isn't a sunshine, is he"
J:" He is really pretty though"
B:"Not that again"
J :" With a face like his? Always!"
B:" And what is wrong with my face?"
J:" Where should I start..?"
B: " Okay okay I got it. Keep it to yourself.."
J:" If you ask me..."
B :" I dont."

I think its kinda funny that Biggs kinda asks her in that version what she thinks of him ^^°

 

[Eerie]

I read somewhere that the European versions of the dub/subs are closer to what the JP script says, I wonder if that's true. Also Jessie needs to wash her eyes if she doesn't think Biggs is hot

 

[Jessie Rito]

I read somewhere that the European versions of the dub/subs are closer to what the JP script says, I wonder if that's true. Also Jessie needs to wash her eyes if she doesn't think Biggs is hot

Well maybe she does think hes hot but he is more like a brother to her ??‍ maybe we lern more in april ^^°

 

[Rydeen]

I think I may be a minority on here, not finding Biggs hot. :p

But I see the appeal.

 

[Odysseus]

I saw somebody compare him to Charlie Sheen and I can't unsee it. Still pretty hot though.

 

[Lex]

I definitely think Biggs is hot. I'd give the flower to him if I could. CLIGGS. Or CLOGGS. omg

Anyway I'm only just getting around to reading some of the interviews recently released or translated and I saw this from Nomura re: Jessie (minor spoilers):

Spoiler

That might have been revealed already idk.

From this interview that Tets posted in the interview thread:

https://www.dualshockers.com/tetsuya-nomura-new-details-final-fantasy-vii-remake/

 

[Odysseus]

Spoiler

Cloud fucking meets Jessie's parents!? What!? Jeez, maybe they are gonna be a thing lol. I need to stop looking at these interview snippets, there's gonna be no surprises left at this rate.

 

[Jairus]

Cue Neoism:

"Whoa..."

Well, seems like Jessie's not wasting any time trying to move things along with Cloud.

And Jessie R, that's the approach I've taken with her and Biggs in my stories. They're close, and rumors say they were or are an item, but it's never been like that between them. He's very protective of her and they're close and mess with each other, but like brother and sister.

You know, I just had a thought:

Spoiler

I wonder if, after the plate collapse, we'll go back at some point to see Jessie's parents again. Imagine seeing Cloud and Tifa trying to tell them that their daughter is dead. That would be one emotional scene.

 

[Jairus]

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/final-fantasy-7-remake-cast-gives-voice-to-a-class/1100-6474470/

Gamespot did an interview with the English voice cast, that includes Erica Lindbeck (Jessie), Gideon Emery (Biggs), Briana White (Aerith), and Britt Baron (Tifa), who were sharing their thoughts on the characters.

Not bad, but it gets a little old seeing sites like this act like Aerith was the only one who died, the only one whose death mattered or meant anything. I think Part 1 is going to challenge that assumption with how they handle the trio's fates, especially Jessie, and it would be nice to see that realization reflected in pieces like these and not have them go so overboard on Aerith's moment. She's not the only one who dies in this story.

 

[Eerie]

You have to understand that 30min with the secondary trio (which you don't really interact with in the first place) is not the same as 2/3rd of a game with a main character who also happened to be special (she was the last Cetra) and had seemingly a role to play still (which she did from the lifestream but that wasn't what the player was waiting for). So yes Aerith's death was much more important to any player than Jessie's (since let's not joke around, this is who you are thinking about).

And yes, the trio's death will be more touching this time around but yes I do believe that Aerith's death will still be MORE important to the player than theirs. Which is normal since, you know, she is a MAIN character you spend MUCH MORE TIME with.

 

[Jairus]

Except hers happens in a separate game, so there's still room for them both to be extremely impactful, with the trio's loss (especially Jessie's, given her prominence compared to the other two) on the same emotional level as Aerith's will be later on. No need to dismiss characters or think less of them just because they aren't "main". That shouldn't make a difference, and I'm tired of people instinctively putting certain characters on a lesser tier simply because they're not directly playable. With their expanded stories and the heightened impact and emotion of their loss, they should be remembered just as much as her.

And we're going to have a lot more than 30min with the trio this time. A whole lot more.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

If it makes you feel better, I dismiss Jessie/think less of her because, based on the demo, I actively dislike her. I know you're passionate about her, and that's cool, but jumping on completely unrelated topics to talk about Jessie yet again really, really isn't helping me warm up to her.

 

[Eerie]

@Jairus you are placing expectations from an upcoming game (you spend more time with Jessie their loss will be as impactful as Aerith's in the OG) at the same level as what players went through with the OG decades ago. You are complaining that back then, people felt more touched/devastated by Aerith's loss than what they did with a very minor character simply because you think that Jessie's death will be as impactful this time around. It doesn't work that way. People felt more for Aerith back then, and will comment on this more than on a secondary character who didn't make any impression on them. I don't know, but if you expect anything else, it's just... weird man. You have weird expectations of people commenting on the OG.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Except hers happens in a separate game ...

For the past 23 years, it's been in the same game. Players have yet to experience anything different.

No need to dismiss characters or think less of them just because they aren't "main". That shouldn't make a difference ...

Would you expect the Shin-Ra Manager dude to get as much discussion as Cid?

... and I'm tired of people instinctively putting certain characters on a lesser tier simply because they're not directly playable.

Those are literally different tiers to begin with. The developers put them there.

 

[Jairus]

@Jairus you are placing expectations from an upcoming game (you spend more time with Jessie their loss will be as impactful as Aerith's in the OG) at the same level as what players went through with the OG decades ago. You are complaining that back then, people felt more touched/devastated by Aerith's loss than what they did with a very minor character simply because you think that Jessie's death will be as impactful this time around. It doesn't work that way. People felt more for Aerith back then, and will comment on this more than on a secondary character who didn't make any impression on them. I don't know, but if you expect anything else, it's just... weird man. You have weird expectations of people commenting on the OG.

Except that this isn't the OG. Things will be different. I just want people to realize that and really understand that she and the rest of the trio aren't bit characters anymore and to look at them in terms of how they'll be in the remake, not how they were in the OG. And that includes the fact that said secondary character now has much more of a presence than she once did and thus, can have more of an impact on the player. In some cases, possibly even just as much as a "main" character.

For the past 23 years, it's been in the same game. Players have yet to experience anything different.

But they will, when the remake comes out. I just want them to realize that what was once minor isn't so much anymore and give it the attention it's due.

Would you expect the Shin-Ra Manager dude to get as much discussion as Cid?

Except that SE has specifically gone out of their way to expand and develop Jessie and the rest of the trio. So the amount of attention people give them, and how they think of them, should reflect that.

Those are literally different tiers to begin with. The developers put them there.

Doesn't mean we have to put our liking for them in those same categories. What I mean is, tiers of thought. As in, how people think of them and remember them.

And Cannon, the topic wasn't completely unrelated because the interview talked about her and involved her VA. So she was a part of it.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Except that this isn't the OG.

That's all anyone has played yet.

But they will, when the remake comes out.

Until then, complaining about how people talk about something they have experienced rather than something they haven't is asinine.

Except that SE has specifically gone out of their way to expand and develop Jessie and the rest of the trio.

Don't evade the question. Would you expect people to discuss the Shin-Ra Manager dude as much as they discuss Cid, yes or no?

So the amount of attention people give them, and how they think of them, should reflect that.

Says who?

Doesn't mean we have to put our liking for them in those same categories.

It doesn't, but you're the only one who keeps saying what people should do.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Just because the Remake is not the OG, doesn't mean all characterization, experience, framed expectation or narrative knowledge goes out the window.

It came first, and is the baseline of everything going on here.

Sure. Maybe it will be different in comparison to the OG's depiction of Jessie's death, how it's handled, or how her character is handled in the Remake. Sure, they're going to develop.

But that hasn't happened yet. How can it reflect something not yet depicted?

The game hasn't been released, dude. Ergo, you cannot expect this sudden shift in perception or whatever. That literally makes no sense. Jessie is a tertiary character. Jessie's death was not as weighty as Aerith's. Fact. That's how it's been for 20 plus years. Now again. Maybe the Remake will change that, but stop expecting people somehow adhere to this equivalency of Aerith!Death = Jessie!Death. Because that's not true. Like, I don't understand how you can suddenly be clapping at people over that. It's unreal.

It'd be like me getting extremely upset over Rosso the Crimson not being shown up in the Remake. Because hey. She's a SOLDIER, goddamnit. A Deepground SOLDIER, and she was just as important and significant. She fought with Cloud too and didn't die. So clearly she's legitimate. And you know, she has the potential to be fleshed out and given more backstory. Maybe she could etc etc etc etc blah blah blinding bias statements here

Like. Seriously, tone it down.

 

[Jairus]

That's all anyone has played yet.
Until then, complaining about how people talk about something they have experienced rather than something they haven't is asinine.

But we've seen a fair bit of the remake and have at least some idea of what to expect.

Don't evade the question. Would you expect people to discuss the Shin-Ra Manager dude as much as they discuss Cid, yes or no?

Actually, SE said he was another character who was being expanded. But basically, if there were people who liked him enough, sure. You're still differentiating between characters like Jessie who have a fairly significant role in Part 1 and those like the SM who aren't likely to have as much of an impact. There's a difference.

Says who?

Common sense. When characters are given more attention and development than they once had, naturally they should be thought of more than they used to be.

It doesn't, but you're the only one who keeps saying what people should do.

Should is not the same as is. I'm allowed to have an opinion, aren't I?

Just because the Remake is not the OG, doesn't mean all characterization, experience, framed expectation or narrative knowledge goes out the window.

It came first, and is the baseline of everything going on here.

Sure. Maybe it will be different in comparison to the OG's depiction of Jessie's death, how it's handled, or how her character is handled in the Remake. Sure, they're going to develop.

But that hasn't happened yet. How can it reflect something not yet depicted?

The game hasn't been released, dude. Ergo, you cannot expect this sudden shift in perception or whatever. That literally makes no sense. Jessie is a tertiary character. Jessie's death was not as weighty as Aerith's. Fact. That's how it's been for 20 plus years. Now again. Maybe the Remake will change that, but stop expecting people somehow adhere to this equivalency of Aerith!Death = Jessie!Death. Because that's not true. Like, I don't understand how you can suddenly be clapping at people over that. It's unreal.

It'd be like me getting extremely upset over Rosso the Crimson not being shown up in the Remake. Because hey. She's a SOLDIER, goddamnit. A Deepground SOLDIER, and she was just as important and significant. She fought with Cloud too and didn't die. So clearly she's legitimate. And you know, she has the potential to be fleshed out and given more backstory. Maybe she could etc etc etc etc blah blah blinding bias statements here

Like. Seriously, tone it down.

You forget, we've seen enough of the remake to get at least some idea of what to expect. Plus the fact that SE's deliberately done everything they can to make her likeable and get us attached to her, all while we all know what her ultimate fate is, if not the specifics of how. She's not tertiary anymore, she's secondary, like the rest of the trio. It's not like the OG. And her death is likely to be the big emotional blow of Part 1, especially if SE does it as well as I think they can. And thus, its weight in Part 1 could become just as much as Aerith's was in the OG as far as the effect it may have on people. So there's enough there for people to draw the conclusion that the trio's ends in the remake will be as emotional and impactful as SE can possibly make them. Thus, allowing the thought and acknowledgement that Aerith isn't the only one who dies in the story and that her death won't be the only one that's important or impactful.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

But we've seen a fair bit of the remake ...

Even counting the demo, we've barely seen anything, and certainly not enough to be comparable to however many hours we spent with Aerith in the original game.

Hell, wouldn't you be disappointed if what we got of Jessie in the final product was only what was in the original+what little extra we've seen so far? Would you feel that it was comparable to the attention Aerith had in the original? Would you not feel that she was cheated of promised expanded development and an opportunity for more players to come to love her?

... and have at least some idea of what to expect.

So you acknowledge that people haven't experienced it yet?

Actually, SE said he was another character who was being expanded.

That -- and the entirety of the remake itself, for that matter -- has nothing to do with what I asked you.

But basically, if there were people who liked him enough, sure.

You're practically trolling my ass at this point. You know what's being asked: do you generally expect players to have more discussion about playable cast members who they spent dozens -- possibly hundreds -- of hours with or incidental characters who they had 1/10 (or less) of that time with?

Don't answer in terms of the remake or with a hypothetical about what they might have done if things were different. If you can't answer what I'm asking you, just don't bother responding.

You're still differentiating between characters like Jessie who have a fairly significant role in Part 1 and those like the SM who aren't likely to have as much of an impact.

My question is not even talking about the remake at all.

Common sense. When characters are given more attention and development than they once had, naturally they should be thought of more than they used to be.

Perhaps after people have experienced that additional attention and development. Until then, expecting people to act like they already have doesn't make any sense.

Should is not the same as is.

What is this non sequitur even supposed to mean? I said you're the only one saying what people should be doing.

I'm allowed to have an opinion, aren't I?

Your freedom to have an opinion is unlimited, but your freedom to express it comes with caveats. You can't express an opinion about what other people should be doing and then act surprised or victimized when they tell you to step off.

 

[Jairus]

Even counting the demo, we've barely seen anything, and certainly not enough to be comparable to however many hours we spent with Aerith in the original game.

Hell, wouldn't you be disappointed if what we got of Jessie in the final product was only what was in the original+what little extra we've seen so far? Would you feel that it was comparable to the attention Aerith had in the original? Would you not feel that she was cheated of promised expanded development and an opportunity for more players to come to love her?

I would be disappointed, yes, but I also know that it's not likely to turn out that way. She's bound to get a lot more than what we've seen.

So you acknowledge that people haven't experienced it yet?

Yes, but that doesn't prevent people from drawing conclusions. Basically, that we can expect to see a lot more time and development from the trio in the remake, and that their ends are very likely to be far more dramatic, emotional, and impactful than in the original and likely provide the big emotional gut punch for Part 1 as Aerith did for the OG.

That -- and the entirety of the remake itself, for that matter -- has nothing to do with what I asked you.

Actually, it does, because you seem to be saying that a character who doesn't even have a name we know of is at the same level as characters we got to know at least a little in the OG and will know a great deal more in the remake.

You're practically trolling my ass at this point. You know what's being asked: do you generally expect players to have more discussion about playable cast members who they spent dozens -- possibly hundreds -- of hours with or incidental characters who they had 1/10 (or less) of that time with?

Don't answer in terms of the remake or with a hypothetical about what they might have done if things were different. If you can't answer what I'm asking you, just don't bother responding.

Generally, PC's do get more. But the trio's going to get more than a 1/10 of that time, at least in Part 1 and will be far from incidental. And I'm sure you know that. Saying Jessie or Biggs are the same kind of character now as the SM, who doesn't even have a proper name that we know, isn't accurate because of how much the trio's being expanded and developed. So they'll naturally be thought of more than they used to be because of that. So for Part 1 at least, they could get close to the level of attention and discussion as the PC's.

My question is not even talking about the remake at all.

You never specified that the question referred to the OG characters only.

Perhaps after people have experienced that additional attention and development. Until then, expecting people to act like they already have doesn't make any sense.

So simply knowing that those characters will get that extra time and development isn't enough to get discussion going? To think about them in a different way, knowing what's likely to be ahead? What we might potentially see and experience shouldn't be talked about or thought about until we actually see it?

What is this non sequitur even supposed to mean? I said you're the only one saying what people should be doing.

It means that I'm not telling people what to do. I'm just offering an opinion on what I'd like to see.

Your freedom to have an opinion is unlimited, but your freedom to express it comes with caveats. You can't express an opinion about what other people should be doing and then act surprised or victimized when they tell you to step off.

So one isn't allowed to say what they think about what people in general are doing?