Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge's Roles in the Remake Thread

[Makoeyes987]

Yes, but that doesn't prevent people from drawing conclusions. Basically, that we can expect to see a lot more time and development from the trio in the remake, and that their ends are very likely to be far more dramatic, emotional, and impactful than in the original and likely provide the big emotional gut punch for Part 1 as Aerith did for the OG.

Not everyone will draw the same conclusion as you, especially for a story that's not even out yet. You're expecting people to extrapolate the same conclusions or beliefs as you for a game that's still unreleased. Like, come on.

So one isn't allowed to say what they think about what people in general are doing?

You can say what you want, but this all sounds like fundamentalist fuckery. Again. The game. Isn't. Out. How the hell can you expect some to equate Jessie as important as Aerith when the game is not out yet?

 

[Jairus]

Not everyone will draw the same conclusion as you, especially for a story that's not even out yet. You're expecting people to extrapolate the same conclusions or beliefs as you for a game that's still unreleased. Like, come on.

Not necessarily. But is is really so unrealistic to guess that they'll get a lot more time and development and that their loss will likely have an emotional impact on people?

You can say what you want, but this all sounds like fundamentalist fuckery. Again. The game. Isn't. Out. How the hell can you expect some to equate Jessie as important as Aerith when the game is not out yet?

I didn't say the character herself. Just that SE seems likely to be trying to create a similar emotional effect and impact with Jessie's death (and those of Biggs and Wedge, but hers possibly a bit more) in Part 1 to what they did with Aerith in the OG. I really don't think they want to wait three more years to give us such a moment when they could do it right now in Part 1.

 

[Makoeyes987]

There's no factor of realistic or not. It technically is unknown. Why are you expecting people to somehow extrapolate a conclusion from a hypothetical based on an unknown which is subjective from the start? This literally is like trying to argue, what would Sephiroth's favorite food would be, and then being upset when someone doesn't have the same answer as you. It's not known now. We do not know. You can't expect people to know, or even share your opinion or viewpoint.

You think SE seems to be doing that. You don't know that, that's a guess. And it's based on something not everyone has even saw, let alone share your perspective on. You have no idea what they're doing with her death, no one does. And they can't, because the game's not out yet. Why are you even arguing this?

 

[Jairus]

I know I don't know any specifics about how they're going to handle it. I'm making a guess based on what we've seen so far, the potential of the platform itself for storytelling, SE's stated goals for the trio, what we do know of their fate, and the potential for expansion and added depth that those moments may have with the new tech available for the remake as well as the high quality of the writing. I never said I know for sure, and I don't know why you're putting words in my mouth like that. I'm not upset about anyone's answer, I just don't like that it feels as though because my opinion may sometimes differ from the majority, it gets dismissed and seemingly put down. Why are you even arguing about this?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Actually, it does ...

No.

... because you seem to be saying that a character who doesn't even have a name we know of ...

Don Corneo then. Elmyra. Palmer. Ester. Dyne. Godo. Choco Billy. Any of them.

I wouldn't expect players to discuss any of these characters as much as any playable character.

... is at the same level as characters we got to know at least a little in the OG ...

Only a deliberate misreading would have you conclude that I was trying to make the point that "all NPCs are functionally the same" rather than "almost any NPC is less likely to be a subject of discussion than pretty much any playable character." Why would I even be talking about that? =|

... and will know a great deal more in the remake.

For that matter, we could get to know the Shin-Ra Manager a great deal across the remake series, as much as we do the TAT (Tragic Avalanche Trio). I wasn't discussing that, though, because it's shit we haven't experienced and has no relevance to a discussion of how players talk about the shit they have experienced.

Generally, PC's do get more.

Thank you! Christ on a stair climber, man.

You never specified that the question referred to the OG characters only.

I consistently referenced the reality that the original game is "all anyone has played yet" and emphasized that what players have experienced "for the past 23 years" dictates how they talk about the characters.

So, yes, I specified.

So simply knowing that those characters will get that extra time and development isn't enough to get discussion going? To think about them in a different way, knowing what's likely to be ahead?

Correct. People do not spontaneously conceptualize something in a way different from the only way they have ever known based solely on the proposal of a notion they don't actually have familiarity with.

Nevermind simply being unrealistic, you are being unreasonable if you expected anyone to hear that we'd see TAT expanded on in the remake and then instantly have the same emotional investment in their as-yet-not-experienced passing that they have had with Aerith's passing for the past two decades. It may well become what you called "the big emotional blow of Part 1" that resonates with them for two decades to come, but players haven't had the chance for it to.

It means that I'm not telling people what to do. I'm just offering an opinion on what I'd like to see.

Judgmentally stating what people should do with the intention that it influences what they do? Yeah, dude, that's just a euphemism for "telling people what to do."

So one isn't allowed to say what they think about what people in general are doing?

Sure you can. Just be grown-up enough to accept that a) people still might not do it; b) they may tell you they don't appreciate the way you said it; and c) if it's a dickish enough/dickily expressed enough opinion, it could have unfavorable consequences for the one expressing it.

 

[LNK]

I like Ody's thought that her flirting could be a bit of a coping mechanism because she's nervous - but perhaps her nerves aren't just about the mission, but also about being around Cloud. She likes him, and maybe the flirting helps her not feel quite so nervous around him and lets her actually talk to him. In that regard, she may be more like her OG self, who did have a certain timidity regarding her feelings for him.

Oh, and did anyone else think that her line - "Keep those baby blues on me!" had a double meaning? Like, aside from wanting to help him through the lasers, she was also flirting with him and inviting him to get closer to her and give her attention and interest. At least, that's the impression I got

I also took her saying that as a way of flirting

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

@Jairus
I should also let you know, as I assume you're avoiding some discussions around the Internet for fear of spoilers and such, that just based on the demo, I've already seen a number of players saying that they really like Jessie or even some variation of "forget Aerith and Tifa" or "I have a new OTP."

If you just back up and give the character a chance for the writers, artists, voice actors, etc. to sell her to people, they'll dig her plenty.

 

[Jairus]

No.

Not much of a rebuttal.

Don Corneo then. Elmyra. Palmer. Ester. Dyne. Godo. Choco Billy. Any of them.
I wouldn't expect players to discuss any of these characters as much as any playable character.

And what about when such characters are given a chance at vastly increased time, development, and attention?

Only a deliberate misreading would have you conclude that I was trying to make the point that "all NPCs are functionally the same" rather than "almost any NPC is less likely to be a subject of discussion than pretty much any playable character." Why would I even be talking about that? =|

No, that's what I took from what you said. You didn't differentiate.

For that matter, we could get to know the Shin-Ra Manager a great deal across the remake series, as much as we do the TAT (Tragic Avalanche Trio). I wasn't discussing that, though, because it's shit we haven't experienced and has no relevance to a discussion of how players talk about the shit they have experienced.

It's just about talking and thinking about what might be and being aware of the new possibilities, that's all.

I consistently referenced the reality that the original game is "all anyone has played yet" and emphasized that what players have experienced "for the past 23 years" dictates how they talk about the characters.

So, yes, I specified.

Not in that direct question. But what they've experienced isn't all anymore, since we have a glimpse of the remake to get an idea of what might be ahead of us. I'm just saying that could be factored in.

Correct. People do not spontaneously conceptualize something in a way different from the only way they have ever known based solely on the proposal of a notion they don't actually have familiarity with.

Nevermind simply being unrealistic, you are being unreasonable if you expected anyone to hear that we'd see TAT expanded on in the remake and then instantly have the same emotional investment in their as-yet-not-experienced passing that they have had with Aerith's passing for the past two decades. It may well become what you called "the big emotional blow of Part 1" that resonates with them for two decades to come, but players haven't had the chance for it to.

I never said they should instantly feel that way. Nowhere did I lay down those words. What I was trying to get across was that I would like people to be aware of the potential those moments have for Part 1 and give it some attention, is all. And incidentally, I've read more than one comment online from people who say that the trio's passing in the OG affected them more than Aerith's. So it's not all her even there.

Judgmentally stating what people should do with the intention that it influences what they do? Yeah, dude, that's just a euphemism for "telling people what to do."

You're only reading that. The world "should" doesn't automatically convey that attitude. If I'm not actually saying "do this" then that's not what I'm saying. That's not how I am or try to be. I chose "should" because I'm trying to express an opinion. It's you who's reading intent into my words that I never had to begin with.

Sure you can. Just be grown-up enough to accept that a) people still might not do it; b) they may tell you they don't appreciate the way you said it; and c) if it's a dickish enough/dickily expressed enough opinion, it could have unfavorable consequences for the one expressing it.

I'm fine with people not doing it. I just don't want to be gotten on just for posting my opinion, that's all. I want to feel like I can say it without being jumped on, no matter what it is. I was not trying to tell any one what to do, honestly.

And yeah, I've seen some of the new youtube vids and their comments, and I like what's happening. It's just the way that interview was presented set me off a little, like it was implying that Aerith's moment was the only such one that mattered or will matter. And that while Aerith and Tifa's eventual interest in Cloud was brought up, Jessie's feelings were never mentioned.

Oh, and what's an OTP?

 

[Ite]

OTP= “one true pairing” it’s when you ship something to the exclusion of other people’s ships or ideas.

@Jairus I honestly think the healthiest thing you can do for these last few weeks is chill out, work on your fic without going online (you get more writing done that way) and letting go of your ideas of canon!Jessie, and enjoy your Jairus!Jessie. I love your Jessie: Heidegger’s daughter and champion of the revolution. I love her more than demo!Jessie. But I want to go into the FF7 Remake with an open mind and accept the Jessie that the writers, directors, musicians, cinematographers, performers, and programmers want to show me. Remake!Jessie will be a new character, maybe she’ll share nothing in common with demo!Jessie, or OG!Jessie, or Jairus!Jessie.

It’s a scary time for long-time fans. There were moments in the demo for me, who spent years feeling alone as a FF7-obsessed-nerd felt very protective of, that felt like “they got the whole thing wrong” but letting go is part of growing old. We have to let go of the world we came into, the world that we built from “nothing.” You know what I’m saying? On the other (better) hand, there were parts of the demo that made me think “Yeah! They love me.” Like the arched door in the train station, or the way the first fight levels you up to level 7, or the subtle way the lighting changes before Cloud says “....Tifa and I...” OR the way Jessie said ‘talking helps me relax’ or whatever — I loved that!

Anyway. I’m excited to go in and enjoy remake!Jessie and to be quite honest I don’t want your voice in my head screaming at me whenever she says anything, so maybe cool it, ok?

@ everyone else: This thread was created specifically for one topic. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY THAT. Please, please, please. Be kind.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's just the way that interview was presented set me off a little, like it was implying that Aerith's moment was the only such one that mattered or will matter. And that while Aerith and Tifa's eventual interest in Cloud was brought up, Jessie's feelings were never mentioned.

You being set off is what @The Twilight Mexican is talking about, when they refer to:

People do not spontaneously conceptualize something in a way different from the only way they have ever known based solely on the proposal of a notion they don't actually have familiarity with.

Nevermind simply being unrealistic, you are being unreasonable if you expected anyone to hear that we'd see TAT expanded on in the remake and then instantly have the same emotional investment in their as-yet-not-experienced passing that they have had with Aerith's passing for the past two decades. It may well become what you called "the big emotional blow of Part 1" that resonates with them for two decades to come, but players haven't had the chance for it to.

Judgmentally stating what people should do with the intention that it influences what they do? Yeah, dude, that's just a euphemism for "telling people what to do."

That set off, is an example of what he and others are referring to.

 

[Jairus]

OTP= “one true pairing” it’s when you ship something to the exclusion of other people’s ships or ideas.

@Jairus I honestly think the healthiest thing you can do for these last few weeks is chill out, work on your fic without going online (you get more writing done that way) and letting go of your ideas of canon!Jessie, and enjoy your Jairus!Jessie. I love your Jessie: Heidegger’s daughter and champion of the revolution. I love her more than demo!Jessie. But I want to go into the FF7 Remake with an open mind and accept the Jessie that the writers, directors, musicians, cinematographers, performers, and programmers want to show me. Remake!Jessie will be a new character, maybe she’ll share nothing in common with demo!Jessie, or OG!Jessie, or Jairus!Jessie.

It’s a scary time for long-time fans. There were moments in the demo for me, who spent years feeling alone as a FF7-obsessed-nerd felt very protective of, that felt like “they got the whole thing wrong” but letting go is part of growing old. We have to let go of the world we came into, the world that we built from “nothing.” You know what I’m saying? On the other (better) hand, there were parts of the demo that made me think “Yeah! They love me.” Like the arched door in the train station, or the way the first fight levels you up to level 7, or the subtle way the lighting changes before Cloud says “....Tifa and I...” OR the way Jessie said ‘talking helps me relax’ or whatever — I loved that!

Anyway. I’m excited to go in and enjoy remake!Jessie and to be quite honest I don’t want your voice in my head screaming at me whenever she says anything, so maybe cool it, ok?

@ everyone else: This thread was created specifically for one topic. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY THAT. Please, please, please. Be kind.

I wasn't even talking about any specifics about Jessie in regards to the interview. Just the general idea that I hope people might think of what SE could potentially do with her and the rest of the trio's stories, expansion, and end to make them really memorable. And I'm not trying to tell you what to think about her, so please enjoy what the remake gives us, whatever it is.

Mako, I try and explain what happened and all you can do is criticize me. I already said it set me off. And I also already addressed the points you mentioned in my response to him. Your antagonistic tone only invites more potential argument. Please back off.

 

[fancy]

nothin but bad vibes in this thread

 

[Jessie Rito]

I thought we were through with this topic.. Like come on that discussion obviously leads to nowhere

 

[Pizzachu]

You know, thinking about Wedge's, Jessie's, and Biggs' eventual death does make me wonder how they could be remembered afterwards. Having three people in an already small group die would be a big blow to any potential plans AVALANCHE had made beforehand. I've heard people mention this before, but how would each character handle grief? Barret had already mentioned something along the lines of sacrifices and the bigger picture. I wonder how he will react to them dying. Also, what about the other characters? Tifa might have known them for quite some time, so it'll be interesting to see how she will respond to this.

If the Remake expands Jessie, Wedge, and Biggs well enough, this could be a much more personal moment than how it was handled in the original.

 

[Jairus]

I'm sure even Cloud will be affected to a certain extent this time by their loss, as he'll have likely had time to get to know them a little and begin forming friendships with them. But yes, it'll be interesting to see how the three deal with it and whether the trio is mentioned after the plate collapse and the group's landing in the park. I'm hoping there'll be a segment where they make some kind of simple memorial for them before heading off to rescue Aerith. A farewell scene in the same vein as Aerith's water burial - though obviously, the trio can't be laid to rest, but something with a similar feel of saying goodbye and that being the entire point of the scene.

Jessie R, it wasn't quite the same topic, as I wasn't talking about her feelings for Cloud at all really. But rather, that basically, I wish people would think of her and the rest of the trio more with the remake coming out and what could potentially be done with them and their stories and not just give attention to the PC's, is all and that I wish interviews like the one that set off this part of the discussion would reflect that more.

 

[fancy]

Hun, I understand that you wish that, but there is no compulsion for anyone to feel that way, ya know? The good news is that I believe that you will be more satisfied when the first part of the Remake comes out and we get to spend more time with the trio than we did in the Original. Folks will undoubtedly be talking about them a bit more than before!

As it stands now, however, I reckon it's only natural that people pay more attention/thought to the main characters not only for the fact that we've spent more time with them in OG and in the Compilation in general but because of the way Square's been marketing the game as well. Who are the consistent four figures that we have seen pop up in advertisement, general media, and in cons/special events? Barret, Tifa, Aerith, and Cloud. And it's for good reason!

I believe that in hoping that The Trio™ gets similar character development/attention to our 4 Major Characters, one is setting themselves up for disappointment, but mayhaps this is not the thread for such naysaying. Mayhaps we must allow ourselves to fall into the imagination and fantasy as much as we'd like to, as it can be a considerable amount of fun just to dream eh.

 

[Jairus]

I wasn't trying to force anyone, fancy, just stating a wish that I had. And I hope you're right. We'll just have to see exactly how that extra time unfolds, I guess, and what happens within it. And I know what you're saying about the main 4, I've just always wondered why SE couldn't include others like the trio in stuff like that sometimes. There's nothing stopping them from doing so, or from breaking with tradition to give them that kind of attention. FF7R itself is, I think, in some ways meant to defy many gaming traditions just as the OG did. What's one more?

Oh, and nice gif, btw. Didn't know Dumbledore could dance.

 

[fancy]

Ah, sorry for suggesting that you were! I only brought it up because it was a pattern of conversation earlier in the thread where you seemed to have difficulty reconciling with the fact that you're largely in the minority with your opinions on Jessie! Just don't want you to take it personally. <3

I reckon they're not marketing more than the main 4 because a) they're largely drawing in folks for the nostalgia and those are the characters you would have spent the most significant time with in the OG and b) to suggest to potential players that The Trio™ is on equal footing with The Main Four™ would be dishonest.

Spoiler: amazing spiderman 2 spoiler lol?

Like when The Amazing Spiderman 2 marketing team had Rhino all over it's teaser material only for the rando to JUST show up in the last ten seconds of the film or sommat is like... excuse me what.

lol yeh he's a champ!

 

[Odysseus]

At the current point in time only weirdos like you and I really care about the AVALANCHE gang, Jairus. It's in the post-Remake world that I expect them to start seeing more love, not now. It's only natural that the initial marketing push is based around what people remember from the original, the landscape will surely change once people have experienced this new version of the story they grew up with.

GIVE ME THE JESSIE PLAY ARTS, SQUARE. GIVE IT TO MEEEEEE

 

[Jessie Rito]

At the current point in time only weirdos like you and I really care about the AVALANCHE gang, Jairus. It's in the post-Remake world that I expect them to start seeing more love, not now. It's only natural that the initial marketing push is based around what people remember from the original, the landscape will surely change once people have experienced this new version of the story they grew up with.

GIVE ME THE JESSIE PLAY ARTS, SQUARE. GIVE IT TO MEEEEEE

So were weirdos now? Nice.

 

[LNK]

I finally caved, and played the demo. From that and the couple spoilers read, it really seems like SE is putting more focus on the trio for this game. That's already a win in my opinion.
I think a lot more people will like those three even more by the time they've played the game. Especially those who never played the OG and don't know their fate.

 

[Saven]

At the current point in time only weirdos like you and I really care about the AVALANCHE gang, Jairus. It's in the post-Remake world that I expect them to start seeing more love, not now. It's only natural that the initial marketing push is based around what people remember from the original, the landscape will surely change once people have experienced this new version of the story they grew up with.

GIVE ME THE JESSIE PLAY ARTS, SQUARE. GIVE IT TO MEEEEEE

So were weirdos now? Nice.

 

[LNK]

At the current point in time only weirdos like you and I really care about the AVALANCHE gang, Jairus. It's in the post-Remake world that I expect them to start seeing more love, not now. It's only natural that the initial marketing push is based around what people remember from the original, the landscape will surely change once people have experienced this new version of the story they grew up with.

GIVE ME THE JESSIE PLAY ARTS, SQUARE. GIVE IT TO MEEEEEE

Whoa Whoa Whoa, I like them too! haha

 

[Odysseus]

So were weirdos now? Nice.

You know it

 

[Jairus]

Ah, sorry for suggesting that you were! I only brought it up because it was a pattern of conversation earlier in the thread where you seemed to have difficulty reconciling with the fact that you're largely in the minority with your opinions on Jessie! Just don't want you to take it personally. <3

I reckon they're not marketing more than the main 4 because a) they're largely drawing in folks for the nostalgia and those are the characters you would have spent the most significant time with in the OG and b) to suggest to potential players that The Trio™ is on equal footing with The Main Four™ would be dishonest.

lol yeh he's a champ!

It's alright, fancy, and I guess I can understand your point about the main 4. I wasn't saying for them to suggest that they'd be on equal footing, just that they'd have some significance. I wouldn't expect them to be included in everything, but I don't think it would hurt to include them in a few marketing-type things outside the trailers, is all - teasing their expanded roles and development, as it were. They just gave President Shinra and Heidegger a combined bio mini-vid on the twitter feed the other day, for example, so it might nice to see one for each member of the trio or one for all of them together. Hopefully we'll get something like that soon.

And Ody, we're not weirdos, we just know which way the wind's gonna blow and where the real love of FF7R Part 1 is, hehe.

+1 for PAK figures for the trio, too! Who knows, maybe after the remake hits they'll actually get them if the gang has enough of an impact on people and their popularity grows enough.