Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII

Lex

Administrator
OK, [spoiler="Ultimate Lair" gameplay spoilers] This was quite a cool idea. By design it's a bit lazy since it's the same room over and over again, but I like that monsters can go extinct and have an ultimate "last one" version, and I like that this dungeon is just a boss gauntlet, it's pretty cool.

Ereshkigal is a bit tough, I'm going to have to revisit my strategy on this one :/ [/spoiler]
 

Lex

Administrator
Well I finally beat
Ereshkigal. And quite honestly, I had more trouble with him than I did with Aeronite, which is surprising because after my first few failed attempts at that all I kept reading about was how much easier Ereshkigal is.

To clarify (and sound a bit pompous probably, but hey ho) I have a ritual when I buy new FF's. I always buy the game and the piggyback guide. I do a playthrough without the guide then check it before the end to see if I've missed anything. Because I had literally nothing left to do on day 9 or so, I opened the guide then and had a read to see what I'd missed. Apparently I did pretty well, there was only one quest I missed and it was the one with the chocobo eater in the chaos infusion that randomly appears on canopus farms on the wildlands. So I went and did it :monster:

Anyway, I tried aeronite twice without the guide, then read the suggested strategy in the guide, which didn't help too much. Then I read some strategies online, which also didn't help much. In the end I went with overclock spamming after the 4th stagger, but at first I was having trouble staggering him quickly enough at all. The main issue is that he's actually quite hard to stagger, yet you're supposed to do it really quickly? Ugh. But managed it in the end.

Now "ultimate" dungeon stuff, first of all I have to say I love the music. It's music from XIII's final chapter almost the whole way down, and it changes depending on what floor you're on. On the last 5 or so floors it plays Barthandelus's theme! <3. Also when you're fighting Ereshkigal its normal boss music until you've very very nearly killed him, when he charges a move that will definitely kill you - which is when the epic final boss music from XIII-2 plays. That was awesome.

I got Ereshkigal down to about 3% of his HP on two attempts and he wiped me out. I would have won the match far earlier had it not been for the fact that I only have the one ether that's in the room right before it. And I could have won much easier if I had an en-something potion because the damage from that is almost doubled by imperil, which he had inflicted. The plan was to spam physical stuff like heavy slash (and therefore either Artemis's Arrows from the Soldier of Peace or Slayer from Cloud's outfit) but that didn't work because the big orange hit numbers stick around for like 3 seconds after you get him to a 4th stagger level, so that's when you have to spam overclock.

Anyway, the key to winning the battle is making sure he's constantly slowed and poisoned. There are strats that say this but don't put enough emphasis on it. I'm playing on normal and I've noticed that most strategies are like "do this and he'll die" - and it's just not correct. Maybe if you're playing on easy those work. I even sounded off on some random guy's YouTube video about it. He has like 3 times the HP on normal and about 5 of his moves will kill you in one hit.

The main issue with him is that he completely ignores defence. The ghostly hood for example is completely useless. So is guarding. You can't even perfect guard any of his attacks (just the normal ones like blizzaga or whatever, nothing that's specific to him) so it's all just about how fast you can pull certain things off and keeping efficient.

One of the best things to do is, during the second and third stagger he's only capable of one move (it's actually just when the little broken magic symbol is up, he can only spam one move for a while) so I used attack on equilibrium then switched to cast aerora on another, then repeated that process until the wave was red then staggered him with heavy slash on whatever schema I've got Caius's sword equipped on since it's like insta-stagger at that stage.

At one point I tried to leave to go find an enaero potion but Ruffian stopped selling them and I didn't want to waste my EP teleporting around. I was hoping to bump into a NPC selling an elixir or an ether so I could just spam more overclock to win. It would still have been technically challenging, just easier.

Anyway yeah, that was really fucking hard. The battle system in this game needs a developed technical skill that no other FF has ever had, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. XIII and XIII-2 almost dipped in that direction but this game requires that you precisely remember which button corresponds to what ability on whatever schemata, and you have to remember the schemata positions, and you have to remember the order they're in because you start on one, and there are a million different combinations so if you change one thing in one schemata you've totally fucked with your own chi. And often enemies require really specific abilities to stagger so it can be a bit of a bitch switching them out then remembering what button to press.

That said, I can't complain about the variety, because it's pretty much endless. I do like that you can kind of do what you want. And I'm actually looking forward to weapon and shield upgrading being unlocked in new game plus, because I can just beast out the weapons I like the look of :D. Like the buster sword and brotherhood for example :D.

I'm going to spend the rest of the in-game day beating the last ones I skipped in the ultimate lair. You can skip a few floors if you get a good battle rating, but the clock runs in battles in this place so I might as well see if I can get anything good out of the enemies that aren't extinct yet.

Then it's off to complete the game. Should be done today, wooooo (but also a little sad).
 

Splintered

unsavory tart
Lex you are a lifesaver. I am RIGHT at Ereshkigal and was about to give up. Came to this thread hoping I could ask someone for advice and here it is. ;_;

So guarding is pointless? I was wondering why he was still doing so much damage even with damage reduction abilities. The only thing that seemed okay that I was doing was having bravery thief on my character, and periodically stealing bravery and faith when he casted it.

Seriously though, fuck this guy.
 

Selphie Tilmitt

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Maidenofwar
Gameplay spoilers -

Yeah, I'm nowhere near as far in as you two, but one thing I did notice from very early on is that Poison seems just as broken as ever as par for the FFXIII series. I got one from those wolf things in Luxerion at the beginning of the game, and it really helps, even for big enemies like the dragons, helps for doing the Born of Chaos quest quite early, etc

Did Lex do a summary of the Yusnaan boss/story at all? I seem to have missed it :( I was looking forward to some gushing about
Snow
:monster:

What I want to know is -
did you get shirtless Snow?
:pinkmonster:
 

Lex

Administrator
Genuinely he is the capital cunt of cunts. Like I can't get over how difficult the damn thing is considering I'm (and I'm assuming you are too) maxed or as near maxed as possible in a single playthrough.

Yes, physical and magical resistance accessories are pointless. The battle is basically a race to deplete his HP before you run out of Phoenix items. I went in with 4 and came out with none. I may also have used arise but you should avoid that because you need all your EP for overclock.

The guide basically has a shitty strategy for killing it in one go (big orange usual stagger bit) but I just wasn't doing enough damage because I didn't have an enaero or enthunder potion while it was imperil'd.

The main problem is keeping the ailments on it. Sometimes it looks like they're not going to stick because it says "GUARD" but that just means the magical attack isn't actually doing any damage, the status WILL still go on if you spam it.

So to start the battle, inflict slow. Hit it with poison (might not stick, it's fine) then spam it with magic until it staggers. Keep inflicting slow as soon as it loses it (which is very quickly but it really helps to keep putting it on even though it's a nuisance). Then poison will stick when it's staggered.

Now you have about a minute to stagger it again. This is the stage where it won't use magic attacks, it spams a ground attack. You can completely avoid damage by doing attack - magic attack - attack - magic attack because she'll stay in the air. Try to get in 2 -ra spells between each attack (and the attack and the magic have to be on seperate schemas that are next to each other for the ATB replenishment). As soon as you see the stagger wave going red at any point, switch to Caius's sword schema and do heavy slash because that'll stagger it if not right away, on the second try.

Now repeat that strategy, all the while reapplying slow and poison. On its 4th stagger, you'll get the big happy orange numbers. These last for about 5 seconds in total. Inflict deprotect, imperil, slow, poison and use an enaero potion (which I didn't have) and a warriors potion (which I also didn't have) if you have one. Then overlock and hit it with all the physical attacks you can - artemis's arrows is obviously one of the best but I just alternated between attack and something else. Use overclock forever until you run out of EP and ethers.

That's how I beat it. I ran out of EP long before I actually killed it, so I kind of grinded the rest of the way. But once you get used to that it's simply using overclock to exploit the increased damage modifier. If you take too long he'll kill you. And he'll kill you more times than you have Phoenix Downs. Also if you don't stagger him quick enough you'll have to start again from stagger one. I don't know the exact time limits I just know its quite tight.

Anyway yeah, ngl its tough as fuck. Even when I had the strategy down I had to try 3 times because I kept forgetting to stick poison and slow on, both of which are ridiculously important. But again,an enaero potion + nektar of the gods or warriors potion or even bravery potion will work absolute wonders.

And yeah, the heavy slash on the caius's sword schema becomes brave chaser and faith chaser, make sure you use that whenever you see it, it's essential in this fight.

This fight is basically every tricky little strategy in this whole game in a single fight. I don't understand why people say aeronite is easier, because while he was a bastard too, it's not nearly as tricky as this.

EDIT: Ruffian sells anaero potions btw Splintered. I DID NOT realise this ;-;
 
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Lex

Administrator
Gameplay spoilers -

Yeah, I'm nowhere near as far in as you two, but one thing I did notice from very early on is that Poison seems just as broken as ever as par for the FFXIII series. I got one from those wolf things in Luxerion at the beginning of the game, and it really helps, even for big enemies like the dragons, helps for doing the Born of Chaos quest quite early, etc

Did Lex do a summary of the Yusnaan boss/story at all? I seem to have missed it :( I was looking forward to some gushing about
Snow
:monster:

What I want to know is -
did you get shirtless Snow?
:pinkmonster:

NO I DIDN'T I DID IT BEFORE DAY 7 AND MISSED OUT ;-;

Oh well, there's always NG+ <3

I would have gushed at the time (and I did squee much in my own head) but this thread was kinda dead at the time. Like it was the same day I posted like 10 times. I kind of miss the level of activity we had when XIII-2 was released, but it's because people just posted spoiler tags in the main thread when XIII-2 was out instead of posting in the spoiler thread.

And I'm not going in there until I've completed it :monster:
 

Lex

Administrator
OK this is my running commentary of the final day post because

IMMEDIATE FEELS. HOPE AND LIGHTNING BOND. HOPE DISAPPEARING. LIGHTNING BEING EMOSH <3

MOG ON THE COMPUTER (how did you get on the ark mog)

Yes game yes, I am ready for the final day *hits yes*

did not know you can move the camera during the loading screen. I know it works during cutscenes.

Ah. Now I see why anubys is the only enemy you can't make extinct. They're a plot device for killing people.

Wow, Lumina creys. That was slightly unexpected.

lol guards, no.

"confused healing :D"

Ooooo that was kinda cool. Thanks Noel. What a bro <3

Anyway, on to the next part of the dungeon, will no doubt post more later.
 

Splintered

unsavory tart
TY Lex so much, I got him right after your first guide, and wow. What a difference poison makes. Before I barely scratched his HP, after your post I downed him my first try. It was really sloppy though, I tried to juggle attack and magica -ra attacks but it didn't work too well.

I also continued to steal protect and shell from one of my roles, and bravery and faith on the other, although in hindsight both of them might have messed with my staggering cycle.

Speaking of staggering, this fight made me realize how terrible I am at staggering, I have a hard time with it this time around. Especially knockout to staggering. It was only recently did I start paying attention to what attacks are better at staggering or slowing down the stagger meter.

I need to figure that shit out >_>

One day I'm going to try that asshole without using poison, but that's not until far off. At least until I finally get use to making stagger as efficient as possible.

Oh Maiden/Selphie. You had the Aerith outfit right? I was wondering what it was like.
 

Lex

Administrator
Yay Splintered <3. I don't even know how I felt when I finished it, I was just like... thank fuck.

Also yeah I really want that Aerith DLC. And the Yuna DLC. hopefully they make them available at some point. I actually bought the X-2 dress yesterday, I quite like the way it looks :D. The Cloud outfit is best in terms of powers as far as I can tell. Slayer is basically a more reliable version of artemis's arrows with less of an ATB cost. Artemis's arrows has something like 3x attack with a damage variance of 50%, whereas slayer has 3x attack with a damage variance of 3%. So artemis is capable of more damage but only hits it half the time, slayer is a bit more consistent.

Also I am just now remembering I have the elgato. I'll probably stream my NG+, the only reason I didn't stream this time is because I didn't want people in the chat giving me spoilers XD. But I should have taken the screenshots with that in glorious HD rather than taking them on my phone. I'll picdump a few later.
 

Splintered

unsavory tart
I would use Artemis Arrows more if the garb didn't offend my eyes. From what I heard about Artemis Arrows, it basically gives you stagger damage without the stagger because it ignores defense? But Slayer is stronger in general, but you need to be in stagger form.

Cloud's was OP for early game but I didn't make much of use of it because the before mentioned I can't stagger very well but it was good. But I switched it out once I got higher levels of heavy slash, because I wanted to try out other abilities. Now, without Cloud's or Solder of Peace, I just sort of cycle through different garbs. I got the "monk" outfit that I use a lot, just because whirlwind kick is helluvafun.

EDIT

Underwhelming besides the hard ass boss. I ran the majority of the monsters to extinction so they weren't there, but even so, how uncreative do you have to be?

Wish they tried something more interesting for the secret dungeon. Although I suppose if you didn't run most of the monsters out before hand, the ticking clock would be scary as hell.

Also, is Ultima worth it? I'll have to look at damage numbers when the min maxers start posting stuff.
 

Lex

Administrator
^
I think Ultima is pretty damn crap tbh. I mean there's possibly a specialist way to unlock its power but its totally overwhelming. One casting of it does the same as my heavy slash and it's worth almost 3 times the ATB cost. Haven't tried it staggered though.

No spoilers but I am about to fight the final boss and I am actually vibrating with excitement. 0_0 0_0 0_0

POSSIBLY TOO MUCH SUGAR
 

Kuja9001

Ooooh Salty!
AKA
roxas9001, Krat0s9001, DarkSlayerZero
Well I finally beat
Ereshkigal. And quite honestly, I had more trouble with him than I did with Aeronite, which is surprising because after my first few failed attempts at that all I kept reading about was how much easier Ereshkigal is.

To clarify (and sound a bit pompous probably, but hey ho) I have a ritual when I buy new FF's. I always buy the game and the piggyback guide. I do a playthrough without the guide then check it before the end to see if I've missed anything. Because I had literally nothing left to do on day 9 or so, I opened the guide then and had a read to see what I'd missed. Apparently I did pretty well, there was only one quest I missed and it was the one with the chocobo eater in the chaos infusion that randomly appears on canopus farms on the wildlands. So I went and did it :monster:

Anyway, I tried aeronite twice without the guide, then read the suggested strategy in the guide, which didn't help too much. Then I read some strategies online, which also didn't help much. In the end I went with overclock spamming after the 4th stagger, but at first I was having trouble staggering him quickly enough at all. The main issue is that he's actually quite hard to stagger, yet you're supposed to do it really quickly? Ugh. But managed it in the end.

Now "ultimate" dungeon stuff, first of all I have to say I love the music. It's music from XIII's final chapter almost the whole way down, and it changes depending on what floor you're on. On the last 5 or so floors it plays Barthandelus's theme! <3. Also when you're fighting Ereshkigal its normal boss music until you've very very nearly killed him, when he charges a move that will definitely kill you - which is when the epic final boss music from XIII-2 plays. That was awesome.

I got Ereshkigal down to about 3% of his HP on two attempts and he wiped me out. I would have won the match far earlier had it not been for the fact that I only have the one ether that's in the room right before it. And I could have won much easier if I had an en-something potion because the damage from that is almost doubled by imperil, which he had inflicted. The plan was to spam physical stuff like heavy slash (and therefore either Artemis's Arrows from the Soldier of Peace or Slayer from Cloud's outfit) but that didn't work because the big orange hit numbers stick around for like 3 seconds after you get him to a 4th stagger level, so that's when you have to spam overclock.

Anyway, the key to winning the battle is making sure he's constantly slowed and poisoned. There are strats that say this but don't put enough emphasis on it. I'm playing on normal and I've noticed that most strategies are like "do this and he'll die" - and it's just not correct. Maybe if you're playing on easy those work. I even sounded off on some random guy's YouTube video about it. He has like 3 times the HP on normal and about 5 of his moves will kill you in one hit.

The main issue with him is that he completely ignores defence. The ghostly hood for example is completely useless. So is guarding. You can't even perfect guard any of his attacks (just the normal ones like blizzaga or whatever, nothing that's specific to him) so it's all just about how fast you can pull certain things off and keeping efficient.

One of the best things to do is, during the second and third stagger he's only capable of one move (it's actually just when the little broken magic symbol is up, he can only spam one move for a while) so I used attack on equilibrium then switched to cast aerora on another, then repeated that process until the wave was red then staggered him with heavy slash on whatever schema I've got Caius's sword equipped on since it's like insta-stagger at that stage.

At one point I tried to leave to go find an enaero potion but Ruffian stopped selling them and I didn't want to waste my EP teleporting around. I was hoping to bump into a NPC selling an elixir or an ether so I could just spam more overclock to win. It would still have been technically challenging, just easier.

Anyway yeah, that was really fucking hard. The battle system in this game needs a developed technical skill that no other FF has ever had, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. XIII and XIII-2 almost dipped in that direction but this game requires that you precisely remember which button corresponds to what ability on whatever schemata, and you have to remember the schemata positions, and you have to remember the order they're in because you start on one, and there are a million different combinations so if you change one thing in one schemata you've totally fucked with your own chi. And often enemies require really specific abilities to stagger so it can be a bit of a bitch switching them out then remembering what button to press.

That said, I can't complain about the variety, because it's pretty much endless. I do like that you can kind of do what you want. And I'm actually looking forward to weapon and shield upgrading being unlocked in new game plus, because I can just beast out the weapons I like the look of :D. Like the buster sword and brotherhood for example :D.

I'm going to spend the rest of the in-game day beating the last ones I skipped in the ultimate lair. You can skip a few floors if you get a good battle rating, but the clock runs in battles in this place so I might as well see if I can get anything good out of the enemies that aren't extinct yet.

Then it's off to complete the game. Should be done today, wooooo (but also a little sad).

A minor detail,
Ereshkigal
is a female.
 

Lex

Administrator
I am not kidding when I say this, but
I was actually going to write "she" even though I didn't know the sex! It doesn't really matter what it's got between its numerous wings though, It's a big ugly dragon and I stabbed-ded it. The end. :monster:
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I love reading your posts (Lex and Splintered), even as you play a game with a mediocre-to-poor story. You guys manage to make the gameplay alone sound like it's all you could ever want.

You did the same thing with XIII-2. Granted, LR's story is way better than that.
 
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Lex

Administrator
Well not really, because tbh I can't articulate a post right now. There were actual real life tears on my face during lots of the ending. Then I thought they'd dried up. Then the trilogy flashback bit happened and I just wept like a baby.

OK so these games haven't been everyone's favourite, that's totally coo. But honestly, that ending was top notch in my honest opinion. This game has been so faithful to the characters, the gameplay was fun, it's the least linear FF ever created, there's a shit load to do. I truly believe this game doesn't deserve the shit its been getting.

It took me 2-3 rounds of XIII to consider it a Final Fantasy. I'm a masochist. The first time I played through it I had the same reaction as every other FF fan. Or at least, my version of events went like this:

XII was a good game, but it wasn't really FF
there hasn't been a real FF style story since X
im so excited for this shiny new XIII game I wonder what its going to be like

plays game

Where are all the people. Why am I going in a straight line. Where am I even going. Who are these people. Why don't they talk about anything that's actually relevant to the plot. What is going on... oh, that Leona Lewis song actually fit in really well there. What a cool ending. This game was really pretty. The battle system was pretty cool too.

plays game again

OK so the first 20 hours are boring when you've done it already. The rest of it is pretty cool. I now like 5 of the characters a lot. Awesome. I now understand the story. This game isn't as terrible as I thought it was.

plays game with fangu, has many in-depth discussions about mechanics and story, realises that in this respect its no different to me than any other FF game in the sense that I can have in depth discussions about the mechanics and the story. Cool.

plays XIII-2 - enjoyed it. Kind of laughed at the ending. Annoyed at the lack of characters I care about. Impossible to dislike either Noel or Serah. Loved the vareity and the craziness. Was annoyed at the story being so completely random. Fun pokemon style stuff. Cool final dungeon. Nice paradox endings. Cool little puzzle things.

So moving on:

Lightning Returns - this game kicks ass. It's weird because it needed to be a sequel to work the way it did, but it's just an enjoyable game. Tiny nods here and there to everything you could think of, I love this game. XIII and XIII-2 were like a big weight and a little weight on a set of scales. What was completely lacking in one was present in the other. Lightning returns does something completely new and finds what I think is finally the perfect balance between story and gameplay, and I actually thought the story was great. I mean it's not winning awards, but I don't think it was terrible. And I genuinely thought the ending was amazing.

I just found it to be a really satisfying conclusion to the series. I'm not glad its over. I don't want more - 3 games is plenty, but I am sitting here thinking "I wonder what Serah and Snow are up to? Are they in France too?" so I'd say it was pretty successful for me.

Honestly I don't think I could ask for more. I'm pretty shocked they managed to pull something off that's this decent. And I'm kind of pissed that this game has been rated lower than XIII and XIII-2 almost across the board? It's like... that makes no sense at all. XIII has been rated the highest in the trilogy and I think that's because it was still living in the afterglow of old FF glory so people expected amazing. Now people are expecting crap and they're rating it crap. I'd like these people to look at this game objectively, because for the first time in 8 years you don't have to put "Final Fantasy" on the label of this game to actually know it's a Final Fantasy game.

I'm not sure what to say about the ending. I recorded my entire Bhuni fight (it is genuinely terrible, but it was my first try so give me a break :D) so I'll post a vid later. Yeah he was tough. This game has bosses that rival the difficulty of FFV bosses. Probably the some of the hardest bosses in the FF series to date.

All the characters were there in the end, that's good enough for me. I know people were complaining that they wanted more Sazh but I'm neither here nor there on him so I was totally fine with it. I wouldn't have expected him to burst through on an airship or whatever, he was probably just enjoying spending time with Dajh. Canonical sense was made (for once) by his absence.

What an epic thing to happen though? In terms of scope I mean. They literally killed the god that created their dimension and went to a new one.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
i thought lr's last boss was more interesting than xiii-2's, but i have a soft spot for xiii's

i actually haven't beat the dragon boss whose name i can't be bothered with now, but i got the ultimate lair one on the second attempt (granted on easy but still) after looking at a strategy for it. but that dragon, i just had one attempt and was like 'nope'
 

Lex

Administrator
The one you managed is easier than the one you didn't. At least, that's how I felt when playing it.

Also I only have one more trophy until I've gotten the platinum, woohoo! Will probably finish it off tomorrow or saturday. Stupid accessories.
 

Lex

Administrator
Because it's not all that challenging a platinum I guess. More challenging than XIII-2, I had that done in 4 days. The original XIII is always going to be the holy grail. About 20 hours of mindlessly grinding turtles and calculating how many stones and components you need and checklists.

Heaven <3
 

Lex

Administrator
Next month watch me do FFX in the same period of time (and it'll be live on stream too, since I don't have to worry about spoilers in the chat).
 

Jason Tandro

Banned
AKA
Jason Tandro, Doc Brown, Santa Christ, FearAddict, Thibault Stormrunner, RN: Micah Rodney
i thought lr's last boss was more interesting than xiii-2's, but i have a soft spot for xiii's

i actually haven't beat the dragon boss whose name i can't be bothered with now, but i got the ultimate lair one on the second attempt (granted on easy but still) after looking at a strategy for it. but that dragon, i just had one attempt and was like 'nope'

Bhunivelze is absolutely the coolest final boss in recent Final Fantasy games. I mean its not every Final Fantasy game you get to fight GOD. The set pieces of the fight was interesting too. The flat field in space was reminiscent of the old school games (and even kind of reminded me of Lunar 2's final boss) and in the end when it curves up to make him an aerial target... So cool.
 
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