The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Yeah, but you would expect the showrunners of the world's premiere amateur art site and a professional who has made his living off art design for 20+ years to take a more nuanced approach.
Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII
- Thread starter Fangu
- Start date
Splintered
unsavory tart
boss fight spoilers
I have enough trouble just staggering normally.
I have enough trouble just staggering normally.
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bk9OLtrCYAAuI6B.jpg:large
the sketches the deviantart contest winners got
the sketches the deviantart contest winners got
Splintered
unsavory tart
Oh I know what you are talking about, the Hoperai fans have been pressing the canon button pretty hard since LR.
As far as the translations go, from what I seen as an observer, I like the stuff she does just because she goes out of the way to translate anything someone asks for and that's pretty cool. I like the translations, I just don't put much stock in the shipper interpretation.
I've seen people convinced because Bhuni is all yandre for Lightning and has Hope's voice, they are trying to say that LightningxHope is canon but eh, I just don't see that.
I view it the same way people insisted that Noel/Serah was a thing, I get it, I get why people like it, I get that some of the moments look shippy, but I don't think it was ever the intent to be romantic.
There is no way Toriyama will allow his waifu Lightning to be with anyone but himself.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I ship Clope (I refuse to use that stupid other term) as much as the next person, but I really don't see how Bhuni's remarks are supposed to canonize it, even when taken in a shipper light. At most, it suggests Hope's feelings for Lightning influenced Bhuni and that Hope digs Lightning (as if that was hard to imagine before), but it doesn't suggest the reverse.
Not that it's necessary to canonize them to enjoy the ship. They're already closer to each other than to anyone else in their series.
Not that it's necessary to canonize them to enjoy the ship. They're already closer to each other than to anyone else in their series.
Kuja9001
Ooooh Salty!
- AKA
- roxas9001, Krat0s9001, DarkSlayerZero
I agree. I just wanna know if the translation is the same.
The "XIII Ultimania" character map thing said he admired her.
Blade
That Man
- AKA
- Darkside-Ky/Mimeblade
If anyone wants a non-shipper's opinion, I'm right here, just give me the story and I will make all you shippers cry blood. 
But seriously I haven't played this game yet, and the urge to get it is increasing the longer it's on the shelf and the price drops.
Oh yeah, and regarding the Art Contest...
Figure, these people are taking time out of their day and investing in great works of art to impress a guy who already HAS a payroll.
I'd hardly call it fair in general.
Nomura is just one guy, he isn't the only paid artist out there, so he isn't word-of-God material. I'm a bigger fan of the Yoshinari brothers (of Valkyrie Profile fame), not to mention Amano has kinda given up on Square-Enix and is doing his own thing.
As an artist myself, I encourage people to not rely on their contemporaries and just learn by doing. Cut your own path, be your own legendary artist/writer/whatever.
I plan on putting guys like Nomura and even Ishiwatari to shame one day, so these guys are on my "going down" list.
But seriously I haven't played this game yet, and the urge to get it is increasing the longer it's on the shelf and the price drops.
Oh yeah, and regarding the Art Contest...
Figure, these people are taking time out of their day and investing in great works of art to impress a guy who already HAS a payroll.
I'd hardly call it fair in general.
Nomura is just one guy, he isn't the only paid artist out there, so he isn't word-of-God material. I'm a bigger fan of the Yoshinari brothers (of Valkyrie Profile fame), not to mention Amano has kinda given up on Square-Enix and is doing his own thing.
As an artist myself, I encourage people to not rely on their contemporaries and just learn by doing. Cut your own path, be your own legendary artist/writer/whatever.
I plan on putting guys like Nomura and even Ishiwatari to shame one day, so these guys are on my "going down" list.
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Alex Strife
Ex-SOLDIER
Their work with the first games (PSX/Lenneth and Silmeria) is fantastic. I did not like their Covenant of the Plume artwork that much though...
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
but the people who entered the contest entered of their own free will. no one was forced to do so, or to put a lot of effort into it. it's not really any different than any other competition that is judged on some measure of talent (as opposed to everyone-has-a-chance answer-this-insultingly-easy-question type contests). they entered because they want to and wanted the prize, it's not like they were under duress to slave away on artwork. they all chose to enter, knowing exactly who would be judging it and that there was a limited number of prizes they might win. nomura judging one contest (for a game/character he did designs for) is no more noteworthy than manga artists who judge manga contests. doesn't mean that they're saying they're the best out there, it's just who they selected to judge. if that's a problem that these people are the judges, anyone is free to not enter.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I think the problem is more that Nomura technically wasn't the only judge. The DeviantArt staff chose 50 pieces for him to choose from.
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
i didn't get that from 'nomura's the one with the paycheck and there's better artists out there', but that was mentioned in the rules iirc. so it was small print but still there. to go back to manga contests because it's the only other art related contest i can really think of, the main judges are the editors of whatever magazine is running the contest. the actual artists are 'special judges' or something
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Well, that's still a problem. If you're going to have a special judge, one would expect someone with comparable vision and skill to the artists providing submissions to be doing the judging, not people who may not have any artistic competence beyond "Hey, this is a pretty picture" or "Sweet, this one was designed in an expensive art program on a computer and is, therefore, automatically cooler than any of them done with pen and paper."
Don't get me wrong. I have no art competence.
But I've known enough people who actually do to recognize this fact and why it's important that people who have brains like mine avoid judging art. You really need an artist to do it, and -- based on general consensus -- not all of DeviantArt's staff qualify.
Don't get me wrong. I have no art competence.
But I've known enough people who actually do to recognize this fact and why it's important that people who have brains like mine avoid judging art. You really need an artist to do it, and -- based on general consensus -- not all of DeviantArt's staff qualify.
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
in which case there's no need to rag on nomura for the deviantart team's potential artistic ineptitude i don't know if debate about the judging has gone on elsewhere (and beyond the usually 'this is bullshit [x] should have won' that's a given with any contest), i only remembered this because i saw the winner's prize sketches/signatures
i don't know if debate about the judging has gone on elsewhere (and beyond the usually 'this is bullshit [x] should have won' that's a given with any contest), i only remembered this because i saw the winner's prize sketches/signatures
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I wasn't defending Blade's comment about him so much as commenting on the problem I personally have with the whole thing. I agree that there's no need to rag on Nomura over it.
Blade
That Man
- AKA
- Darkside-Ky/Mimeblade
Even if Nomura was the main judge of the competition (or even if he was an experienced art critic or well known artist for that matter), that doesn't mean that his word is law on the quality of people's art. Which is partly why I question his comment regarding wanting to change how people did things for their own works.
At the end of the day, if you lost the contest, it wasn't because you suck, and it wasn't because they chose someone better either.
You lost because you weren't picked. That's just how life goes in the world of art. Art and its impressions on people are subjective. That means some will love it and some will hate it, regardless of whatever the work is.
Doesn't mean your works wouldn't get picked in the future by someone (or even sold as your own work).
That's my main beef with Nomura. He has no right to criticize people's works by just saying ambiguous things like "I'd draw a better version". If you want a professional critique you ask a professional who knows your strengths and weaknesses after having observed your work, and who can tell you how to improve your work as a whole and how to develop.
I've had conversations with professional artists, and they will almost always tell you that "doing your own thing" is usually the best way to grow. That's why I say you shouldn't let comments from a guy with a payroll bog you down.
Sure, people chose to enter the contest, but they didn't ask for lame half-arsed comments, they asked for valid opinions and recognition on their talents.
At the end of the day, if you lost the contest, it wasn't because you suck, and it wasn't because they chose someone better either.
You lost because you weren't picked. That's just how life goes in the world of art. Art and its impressions on people are subjective. That means some will love it and some will hate it, regardless of whatever the work is.
Doesn't mean your works wouldn't get picked in the future by someone (or even sold as your own work).
That's my main beef with Nomura. He has no right to criticize people's works by just saying ambiguous things like "I'd draw a better version". If you want a professional critique you ask a professional who knows your strengths and weaknesses after having observed your work, and who can tell you how to improve your work as a whole and how to develop.
I've had conversations with professional artists, and they will almost always tell you that "doing your own thing" is usually the best way to grow. That's why I say you shouldn't let comments from a guy with a payroll bog you down.
Sure, people chose to enter the contest, but they didn't ask for lame half-arsed comments, they asked for valid opinions and recognition on their talents.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I'm still not convinced Nomura meant "I'd do it better." He could just as easily have meant "I'd do it differently because of X reasons."
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
From my experience learning graphic design, I get those types of comments from people all the time, heck, I give them myself a lot. And nine times out of ten, it doesn't mean the artwork is bad, just that whoever is critiquing the artwork would have done it differently. And usually, I want people to tell me how they would change it because that's how I improve or at the very least, see what someone else could do with it.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I myself do this constantly, but in different ways -- e.g. "I'd have cast that sentence differently" or "I'd have resolved that sub-plot another way." Particularly with the first example and pondering Splintered's posts, it becomes clear that this isn't necessarily negative.
Fangu
Great Old One
I read it more as appreciation, to be honest. "I like seeing other artists' vision because I'm just one person so there's all these other awesome ways of doing things differently than I would." That's how I feel about writing and even code. Looking at other people's work can make me go "now why didn't I think of that!" or "that's really interesting - I'd usually end up doing [x] but this is a neat way of solving it."
It's a sentence that leaves a lot up for interpretation. If people wants to insist he sees this as a good opportunity to brag about himself - that's fine. But why would he do that. It's not a clever thing to do in any way.
It's a sentence that leaves a lot up for interpretation. If people wants to insist he sees this as a good opportunity to brag about himself - that's fine. But why would he do that. It's not a clever thing to do in any way.
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
i don't think this contest was even set up as a way for people to get criticism from the judge(s).
and his comment about doing things differently was specifically that he didn't think that this time:
his comment is vague about what 'it' would be. the entire image? the composition? the costume? i don't think it's unusual to see things and think of other ways you would have done it personally, it doesn't mean that you think the original isn't good. maybe you wouldn't have use that line of dialogue or you would have done this outfit differently. everyone just has their own aesthetics and tastes. i sure as hell don't think anything i could make would reach the level of technical skill of the winning entries, but i still see things i would have done differently. i think it's an inevitable reaction if you're even remotely interested or involved in whatever type of art you're talking about.
at the end of the day it wasn't really an 'art for art's sake' contest, it was just a little promo event for the game. they promised the contest would be 'judged by nomura' but nothing about you getting any kind of feedback. you were just entering in the hopes that one guy (after entries being filtered through other people) would pick yours and you'd win a prize.
i would say a bigger issue is the abundance of digital painting style images over others in the selected entries, which is still more a problem with deviantart and their apparently narrow view on what makes good art than nomura. their diablo 3 contest is the same. lots of digital paintings and apparently not a single traditional media entry. or even in a different style of digital art. i think this entries for the lr contest was more interesting and unique than the scorpion armour one than won. having more entries like this one in the semi-finalists would have made it seem less like they were just picking ones that stuck the closest to some narrow 'realistic digital art' criteria.
and his comment about doing things differently was specifically that he didn't think that this time:
his comment is vague about what 'it' would be. the entire image? the composition? the costume? i don't think it's unusual to see things and think of other ways you would have done it personally, it doesn't mean that you think the original isn't good. maybe you wouldn't have use that line of dialogue or you would have done this outfit differently. everyone just has their own aesthetics and tastes. i sure as hell don't think anything i could make would reach the level of technical skill of the winning entries, but i still see things i would have done differently. i think it's an inevitable reaction if you're even remotely interested or involved in whatever type of art you're talking about.
at the end of the day it wasn't really an 'art for art's sake' contest, it was just a little promo event for the game. they promised the contest would be 'judged by nomura' but nothing about you getting any kind of feedback. you were just entering in the hopes that one guy (after entries being filtered through other people) would pick yours and you'd win a prize.
i would say a bigger issue is the abundance of digital painting style images over others in the selected entries, which is still more a problem with deviantart and their apparently narrow view on what makes good art than nomura. their diablo 3 contest is the same. lots of digital paintings and apparently not a single traditional media entry. or even in a different style of digital art. i think this entries for the lr contest was more interesting and unique than the scorpion armour one than won. having more entries like this one in the semi-finalists would have made it seem less like they were just picking ones that stuck the closest to some narrow 'realistic digital art' criteria.
Blade
That Man
- AKA
- Darkside-Ky/Mimeblade
I finally caved in and bought Lightning Returns.
No DLC, used, etc.
Even so, because I've been so "faithful" I got FFXIII and FFXIII-2 ATB garbs (which have really nice equips), so that's nice (I colored Goddess Lightning in Lenneth Valkyrie's colors just cuz I can).
So here I am, running around Luxerion for 2 days straight (no sleep, easy mode), trying to figure out just what the heck I can do to earn some easy Eradia in this place and get stronger.
Strangely enough the Synthesis shops speed up the process, and having new garbs to buy certainly helps.
I run in to a former actress, a girl who can't pay the Pharmacy bills, a cynical 5 year old, and a talking cat.
What do these people have in common? SIDE QUESTS.
So, I am thinking up ways of farming the simplest side quests with each new New Game Plus I come across and ignoring the more tedious ones until I get stronger and have more EP to spend.
I'm told Hard mode maximizes your potential but as yet I am ignoring it since right now most common enemies at night feel like a boss fight every time, so I'm going to take it nice and slow and chew the scenery a bit.
And I haven't even LEFT Luxerion yet!
And a bunch of random people online with things to sell that are WAaaaay out of my Gil price range (lol someone was selling a Masamune for like umpteen kajillion gil on the first day I started... and I'm like, isn't that a final dungeon thing?)
And despite people feeling like this world is... "fake seemingly" the people are talkative and lively, so that's fun, it's engrossing.
Battles I need to get used to, for sure, but I don't exactly like the fact that it's way too easy to blow all your ATB in a single combo.
I already know this is going to end in a Game Over, but I don't care, since I'm getting nice things and wandering around.
No DLC, used, etc.
Even so, because I've been so "faithful" I got FFXIII and FFXIII-2 ATB garbs (which have really nice equips), so that's nice (I colored Goddess Lightning in Lenneth Valkyrie's colors just cuz I can).
So here I am, running around Luxerion for 2 days straight (no sleep, easy mode), trying to figure out just what the heck I can do to earn some easy Eradia in this place and get stronger.
Strangely enough the Synthesis shops speed up the process, and having new garbs to buy certainly helps.
I run in to a former actress, a girl who can't pay the Pharmacy bills, a cynical 5 year old, and a talking cat.
What do these people have in common? SIDE QUESTS.
So, I am thinking up ways of farming the simplest side quests with each new New Game Plus I come across and ignoring the more tedious ones until I get stronger and have more EP to spend.
I'm told Hard mode maximizes your potential but as yet I am ignoring it since right now most common enemies at night feel like a boss fight every time, so I'm going to take it nice and slow and chew the scenery a bit.
And I haven't even LEFT Luxerion yet!
And a bunch of random people online with things to sell that are WAaaaay out of my Gil price range (lol someone was selling a Masamune for like umpteen kajillion gil on the first day I started... and I'm like, isn't that a final dungeon thing?)
And despite people feeling like this world is... "fake seemingly" the people are talkative and lively, so that's fun, it's engrossing.
Battles I need to get used to, for sure, but I don't exactly like the fact that it's way too easy to blow all your ATB in a single combo.
I already know this is going to end in a Game Over, but I don't care, since I'm getting nice things and wandering around.
Splintered
unsavory tart
Oh man don't worry about the time limit at all. If you liberally use your chronostasis you'll have more than enough time to nearly complete everything, plus do all your own exploration, and you'll probably still have to sleep at an inn to waste time.