Love Triangle Spoiler Thread

[Celes Chere]

That's one of my favorite entries, Ryu! XD Because the "Mr Cloti" song is just hilarious.

 

[Tennyo]

V posted a link to that entry on the previous page (or maybe it was two pages back?).

And I'm not getting my knickers in a twist I was just stating my opinion on the matter and how I wasn't entirely sure about that rout. I didn't mean to come off sounding all condescending or anything if I did.

 

[Reference]

Hah, I see why people would think that... lol

But I wasn't putting words in any one's mouth but mine. The creed popped up in my head when I read one of their forum rules written with a tone of a commandment set in stone. It's not entirely my fault that they come off as a strict religously orthodox church with all their passionate devotion and blasphemous attitudes towards anything (even the legitamate, correct, and true) that opposed their beliefs.

I understand that people aren't comfortable with joking about religion, and I apologize for starting.

You won't hear anymore form me.

...feel free to spray me with holy water and compel me with the power of that of which you worship for being so bad.



lol k, srsly, I'm done.

 

[Reference]

Wait, they have a song!?

 

[A]

Uh... anyways.

Tenny, you didn't sound condescending at all, don't worry about it, okay? I apologize if my posts offended you ~

 

[holdthesun]

So, evidently Nomura said Tifa is Cloud's girlfriend, that's fine, but I think it would be more relevant to see what Nojima has to say about it, since he is the strory writter. Does he say anything definite about where he wants Cloud to end up?

Now, I don't really see how they tried to sell the idea of Tifa being the Blond's catalist tho, it's not like she is the only one to motivate him, or even serve as main motivation. Heck, for that matter, I don't even see her being that much of a catalyst in the 1st place. Sure, they have that somewhat heated arguement in the bedroom, where she pushes him to let go of the past and take action. and yet, most of what really motivates him is his conversations with Aerith and her showing him forgiveness. Then come the kids, then comes Zack, which is the strongest catalyst imo.
The promise brought up in relation to the new scene of Cloud comming to the rescue.... I'd think if they really wanted to make that connotation, he would flashback to the scene where me made the promisce, or when he first fullfilled it. Instead, he associatiates the possibility of one loss with another that happened before and left a huge scar. However, can't really complain about that, seeing as it would be more realistic of him to bring up Aerith at that time, just because of the similarity of a events taking place and him going through all the contemplating about not being to protect her.
My point, in a better script, just after he flashbacks to Aerith, we get a voice saying "promise me..." or something salient from Tifa and Cloud's convo when they made the promise. That would have been much better, and I solve a lot of problems.
Zack, Aerith and the kids are just as much (in my view even more., esp. Zack in the end) of a catalyst for Cloud to "be a hero, not at a 0". just my 15141 cents

 

[Ryushikaze]

He said that when writing AC, the first thing he cemented was that Cloud would live with Tifa, that everyone would be where they belonged.

He also wrote Case of Tifa and the revision, where Cloud says his new life is one together with Tifa.

It was also he who called 'words aren't the only way' Risque/ bordering on impropriety, IIRC.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

The purpose of the Aerith (AND ZACK) flashback was to cue us in that Cloud's self doubt is causing him to fail to act, which lost him two dear friends and now will lose him his woman and child if it continues. The apology for being late lets us A: know Cloud is back to usual B: Reference the promise again, a la Nibleheim, and C: gives us Cloud at least starting to apologize for being a dumbass and running off without a word.

And I don't think anyone is saying Zack, Aerith, Denzel, or anything like that aren't motivators for Cloud, they just aren't as much of one as Tifa.
She's the one who got him to go after the kids, on whose words he reflected, and such.

 

[A]

Oh?

Sure. Nojima mentions about how Tifa and Cloud balance each other out, and that they all belong to their respectable places - including Cloud and Tifa (stated by Nojima). This is your interpretation holdthesun. What SE gives us is official proof that Tifa is Cloud's catalyst, and unfortunately, interpretations can't change the fact that Tifa is Cloud's catalyst, no matter or not you'd like to believe in it or not. If you haven't watched the rest of the scene, he also saves Denzel - and who is he reminded of before he saves Denzel? Zack. Who does he see before Tifa? Aerith. The buildings falling on Tifa is in relation to Sephiroth jumping down and stabbing Aerith before she dies. I think the fact that SE even bothered to show Cloud saving Tifa shows a lot, especially because we've been getting a lot of, "Cloud can't even save Tifa," lines, which shows us that yes, he can. Let's not forget that this is not the only time he's saved her after Last Order. Unfortunately, although your opinion is that Tifa is not Cloud's catalyst, if SE announces it as canon, it's canon. We can't do anything about that.

Also, you sound very familiar. Do I know you from somewhere?

 

[Tennyo]

Uh... anyways.

Tenny, you didn't sound condescending at all, don't worry about it, okay? I apologize if my posts offended you ~

Ah no I'm not offended. I was just being wary. But I think I took it the wrong way. lol More posting on the forums again when I'm tired. When I really sit and think about it it's really not that bad I guess. But I dunno.

I'm rambling now.

 

[A]

No problem Tenny ~

Wait, they have a song!?

Well, a created anti-Cloti song, titled... Mr. Cloti or something?

 

[Ryushikaze]

Actually, they have several. Alex fancies himself a filker. Another he wrote is la resistance, which I think it hilarious, because the point of la resistance is continuing to the last man even though you die and the resistance is losing horribly.

In essence, we are horrible cloti oppressors, and they are fighting the good pink fight is IIRC, the point of that one.

 

[Celes Chere]

Mr. Cloti or something?

The Grinch is creepy! I don't like being compared to him! My heart is not two sizes too small. D<<

 

[A]

WTF, I didn't even know it was from The Grinch! ._.

 

[holdthesun]

Oh?

Sure. Nojima mentions about how Tifa and Cloud balance each other out, and that they all belong to their respectable places - including Cloud and Tifa (stated by Nojima). This is your interpretation holdthesun. What SE gives us is official proof that Tifa is Cloud's catalyst, and unfortunately, interpretations can't change the fact that Tifa is Cloud's catalyst, no matter or not you'd like to believe in it or not.

You know that may be my problem, I don't buy into what is being said somewhere/someone just like that if it doesn't match my understanding. I didn't really see her being that much of a catalyst throughout the thing and It simply wasn't convincing enough for me. But that's how I feel about it. They can say what ever they want, but it isn't even explained why they say that, they just say she's the catalyst. Ok, that fine, if they don't want to spoon feed, then various opinions will follow in most cases. Otherwise, I have to come to Ryushikaze for explanation, who clearly holds a PhD in FF, and gets sponsored by SE.

Also, you sound very familiar. Do I know you from somewhere?

well, there was this one time........................ nevermind, lol

 

[Reference]

...


Wow, they have some strong shit over there. Are they on crystal meth or what?

 

[A]

You know that may be my problem, I don't buy into what is being said somewhere/someone just like that if it doesn't match my understanding. I didn't really see her being that much of a catalyst throughout the thing and It simply wasn't convincing enough for me. But that's how I feel about it. They can say what ever they want, but it isn't even explained why they say that, they just say she's the catalyst. Ok, that fine, if they don't want to spoon feed, then various opinions will follow in most cases.

Of course, you don't buy it, but SE intends to keep it as canon and true. Others buy it (such as me), so SE's facts are something opinions can't override.

well, there was this one time........................ nevermind, lol

.......... Yes?

@ Reference: Seriously, let's stop with the questions about whether or not they're using cocaine/meth/general drugs. Some people take that offensively you know.

Otherwise, I have to come to Ryushikaze for explanation, who clearly holds a PhD in FF, and gets sponsored by SE.

This is true.

 

[Reference]

It would actually sound worse if I don't mention drugs. But alright. Whatever makes you happy, sweetheart.

 

[kelly20]

Hito has been hiding too long.... something is fishy..lols


Anyways.. does anyone know if the New Ultimania's had interesting info?

and I am still confused about the novella CoL , is it in Aeriths POV? or is a narrator?

 

[Isabella]

I think someone said the updated ultimania didn't have much new.

CoL White is Aerith's point of view. It appears it was written in third person limited, like the rest of the novellas IIRC.

For people who aren't lit geeks, Wiki does a pretty good job of summing up what that means.

Also known as "close third person," this perspective is distinct from the omniscient mode in that the reader experiences the story through the senses and thoughts of just one character.
In third-person limited, the narration is limited in the same way a first-person narrative might be--i.e., the narrator cannot tell the reader things that the main character does not know, or depict scenes at which the main character is not present--but the text is written in the third person. Third-person limited is a type of third-person subjective narration in that it gives the reader access to the character's thoughts and feelings.

This is totally taking me back to my college days.

 

[I Am Not Me]

On the subject of religions...

http://destinyfailed.blogspot.com/2008/12/come-all-ye-faithful-and-devoted.html

Wow, that site's pretty interesting...

Evil...but interesting.

Is the person writing those things anyone we know?




And what's a pencilneck?

You idiots.

CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK....

















Beats both Clerith and Cloti any day.

~ Wee.

I SAW THAT CLACK FTW

 

[A]

Mei, a pencilneck:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pencil neck

 

[Fairheartstrife]

So, evidently Nomura said Tifa is Cloud's girlfriend, that's fine, but I think it would be more relevant to see what Nojima has to say about it, since he is the strory writter. Does he say anything definite about where he wants Cloud to end up?

Now, I don't really see how they tried to sell the idea of Tifa being the Blond's catalist tho, it's not like she is the only one to motivate him, or even serve as main motivation. Heck, for that matter, I don't even see her being that much of a catalyst in the 1st place. Sure, they have that somewhat heated arguement in the bedroom, where she pushes him to let go of the past and take action. and yet, most of what really motivates him is his conversations with Aerith and her showing him forgiveness. Then come the kids, then comes Zack, which is the strongest catalyst imo.
The promise brought up in relation to the new scene of Cloud comming to the rescue.... I'd think if they really wanted to make that connotation, he would flashback to the scene where me made the promisce, or when he first fullfilled it. Instead, he associatiates the possibility of one loss with another that happened before and left a huge scar. However, can't really complain about that, seeing as it would be more realistic of him to bring up Aerith at that time, just because of the similarity of a events taking place and him going through all the contemplating about not being to protect her.
My point, in a better script, just after he flashbacks to Aerith, we get a voice saying "promise me..." or something salient from Tifa and Cloud's convo when they made the promise. That would have been much better, and I solve a lot of problems.
Zack, Aerith and the kids are just as much (in my view even more., esp. Zack in the end) of a catalyst for Cloud to "be a hero, not at a 0". just my 15141 cents

Well, Nojima has said repeatedly that Cloud would be with Tifa, where he belongs. Nomura also toned down Nojima's Cloud x Tifa relationship in KH because it was too defined romantically and Nomura wanted to give the player a more ambiguous representation of the pairing with Tifa being Cloud's light--and yes, he states that Tifa not Aerith is Cloud's light...anyway onto FFVII compilation. Nojima is actually more pro-Cloti than Nomura is.

As for Aerith being the catalyst...uhm He doesn't "see" her until AFTER he gets his ass in gear to go after the kids, so how you can say that Aerith prompts him...I've no idea. In fact all he says to her is "I want to be forgiven" and if one was so inclined they could infer that he means by Zack and not her. I mean she does say "By who?" (and I know, I know, people that Cloud does seek forgiveness for failing her and that her comment is more about Cloud forgiving himself, but given the "interpretation" angle some people are using...)

Also, Cloud never speaks to her directly as he does Zack... Just saying. He never says her name. Says Zack...Says Tifa (a number of times....maybe he likes how it sounds...) and even speaks to the Buster Sword as if he were talking to Zack.... So...Clack? YES!

Also, this isn't live-action or random, with actors that can improve or make gestures/statements, etc. that are other than dictated. Each scene is carefully crafted out for specific purposes. For every shot of Cloud we usually have an answering shot of Tifa. So the added rescue isn't just thrown in without reason. And the lines have specific representation. And why would they flash back to the well promise when throughout compilation hey've already done just that. this rescue wasn't about keeping his promise at the well, it was about his newfound faith in himself (courtesy of Tifa and the others) and his determination to never be late again.

And maybe you're misunderstanding catalyst...because Tifa is that for Cloud. The others, they sustain that motivation that she provides. Their roles are important, yes, but without Tifa Cloud would never have gone to the Forgotten City. Remember he was fully prepared to let Rude and Reno handle that...and knowing full well that he can whoop their asses without trying. So...he was essentially giving up at that point.

Ok, that ramble was way longer than intended.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Oh god, I had the weirdest dream ever, and I blame all of you. There was this neutral forum where Cloti and Clerith could hang out and talk about their pairings peacefully and then someone hacked my account and was being a Cloud/Aerith troll and then Anastar showed up and was like "This is ridiculous, stop this immediately." After that I dreamed something about Doctor Who and rogue elephants. Totally your guy's fault.

Now, I don't really see how they tried to sell the idea of Tifa being the Blond's catalist tho, it's not like she is the only one to motivate him, or even serve as main motivation. Heck, for that matter, I don't even see her being that much of a catalyst in the 1st place. Sure, they have that somewhat heated arguement in the bedroom, where she pushes him to let go of the past and take action. and yet, most of what really motivates him is his conversations with Aerith and her showing him forgiveness. Then come the kids, then comes Zack, which is the strongest catalyst imo.

I think this whole thing would help if you knew what a catalyst is. A catalyst is not the thing in a reaction that is one of the products or even one of the ones who's causing it. A catalyst merely speeds the process that is inevitable given the circumstances. Eventually, he would have tried to forgive himself for his past mistakes, but Tifa's urging sped the process up.

 

[Celes Chere]

@Nin- When you're dreaming about the LTD.... I'm a little scared, lol. I think I'd freak if I actually dreamed about the LT. There is no escape.

Nomura also toned down Nojima's Cloud x Tifa relationship in KH because it was too defined romantically and Nomura wanted to give the player a more ambiguous representation of the pairing with Tifa being Cloud's light

Huh, really? Or are you talking about the line where he says he isn't going to outright say who Cloud's light is, or what Tifa is because he wants players to really think about it?

So...he was essentially giving up at that point.

I definitely agree. I always thought that Tifa, Aerith, and Vincent were the main contributers to helping Cloud regain his strength. Now it's more like Tifa, Aerith, Vincent, and Zack! <3 Though, I haven't seen Vincent mentioned by the creators as a major help to Cloud... I thought his talk with Cloud about sins being forgiven was a push for him. Anyway, I think the way they portrayed Tifa's importance to Cloud was perfect in AC (having Cloud say: "I feel lighter. I lost weight. Must have been all that dilly dally" with Tifa's smile in return), and even better in ACC. Not only do we get Tifa's 'lecture', but we get a new rescue scene. For anyone who said Tifa was 'mean' about the promise, notice this time she's smiling, saying "It's alright". <3 I never thought Tifa was mean in the first place, but it's kind of a slap in the face to those Tifa haters.

 

[Ryushikaze]

You know that may be my problem, I don't buy into what is being said somewhere/someone just like that if it doesn't match my understanding. I didn't really see her being that much of a catalyst throughout the thing and It simply wasn't convincing enough for me. But that's how I feel about it. They can say what ever they want, but it isn't even explained why they say that, they just say she's the catalyst.

Think of it sort of like a kick in the pants/ jump start. Tifa gets Cloud to go do things faster, or that he wouldn't normally do, just by asking.

Ok, that fine, if they don't want to spoon feed, then various opinions will follow in most cases. Otherwise, I have to come to Ryushikaze for explanation, who clearly holds a PhD in FF, and gets sponsored by SE. [/FONT]

Clearly.

well, there was this one time........................ nevermind, lol

At camp? They always seem to be at camp.