SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I think it flew over the heads of many that:

- Zack was important to Aerith
- she was not over him when she meets Cloud

To me the park crystallises that the devs want to stress that she did truly love Zack, it was not a fleeting feeling, and that she’s not over him at that moment, at least. I’d even argue, seeing the last scene, that she’s not over him in the whole first part.
 

Graymouse

yoroshiku onegaishimasu
That's not why I'm bringing it up though. I bring it up because there must be a larger overarching reason WHY the devs chose to add that line.
I think I interpret the same way as Ryu and Eerie as well. It is just to let the player know that Aerith isn't quite over Zack yet at this point in the game. Like others have said when she spoke those words I felt that she was trying to force herself to be happy. It is a stark difference in how she has been up to that point in the game. There is a lot of sadness in the delivery.
 
I generally agree, I think they are indicating she isn't totally over Zack, but given we're in the LTD thread I think it is important to note that she does seem aware that she needs to focus on moving on instead of waiting for him to come back.

I took the scene as Aerith hoping Cloud would be able to provide some closure to what happened to Zack, so that she could properly close the book on that part of her life and keep working on moving forward. Cloud wasn't able to do that and I think some of her sadness comes from still not having closure, in addition to the painful memories of talking about Zack.
 
I think I interpret the same way as Ryu and Eerie as well. It is just to let the player know that Aerith isn't quite over Zack yet at this point in the game. Like others have said when she spoke those words I felt that she was trying to force herself to be happy. It is a stark difference in how she has been up to that point in the game. There is a lot of sadness in the delivery.
I generally agree, I think they are indicating she isn't totally over Zack, but given we're in the LTD thread I think it is important to note that she does seem aware that she needs to focus on moving on instead of waiting for him to come back.

I took the scene as Aerith hoping Cloud would be able to provide some closure to what happened to Zack, so that she could properly close the book on that part of her life and keep working on moving forward. Cloud wasn't able to do that and I think some of her sadness comes from still not having closure, in addition to the painful memories of talking about Zack.
I think it flew over the heads of many that:

- Zack was important to Aerith
- she was not over him when she meets Cloud

To me the park crystallises that the devs want to stress that she did truly love Zack, it was not a fleeting feeling, and that she’s not over him at that moment, at least. I’d even argue, seeing the last scene, that she’s not over him in the whole first part.
But we already know Aerith wasn't over Zack based on what she said five seconds earlier on top of the slide. The line about "moving forward" has its own purpose separate from that.

Perhaps it connects to the final scene where she stops and looks up at the sky. I've read that theory, but I'm not sure on it. What I do know however is that Nojima and the rest like symbolic storytelling, and they like to repeat images and lines to call attention to certain things.

You see this with the flower, the Nibelheim watertower, etc.
 

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
I generally agree, I think they are indicating she isn't totally over Zack, but given we're in the LTD thread I think it is important to note that she does seem aware that she needs to focus on moving on instead of waiting for him to come back.

I took the scene as Aerith hoping Cloud would be able to provide some closure to what happened to Zack, so that she could properly close the book on that part of her life and keep working on moving forward. Cloud wasn't able to do that and I think some of her sadness comes from still not having closure, in addition to the painful memories of talking about Zack.

This is an interesting take. Personally, I took her line as a personal call out to herself. I don't think Aerith was consciously reminiscing Zack through Cloud, but unconscious she kind of led it that way, until her realization on the playground.

"Gotta move forward, not back!" I wonder how many times she may have said the same thing to herself in an attempt to let go of her unresolved past with Zack? Nonetheless, I think this scene (and most of her interactions with Cloud before that) strongly suggests that, even after all this time, she still hasn't been able to put her past with Zack aside.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
She is very conflicted at this moment. She is not over Zack, she probably senses that he’s dead but can’t accept it, and this cute guy who has some of Zack’s mannerisms AND his sword has just popped in her life and she’s being attracted to him even though she still loves Zack. Those are words she tells herself because she shouldn’t be stuck in the past, yet still is.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
I think the fact that she's not over Zack is clear enough that I find it weird that it's something that's being discussed. Her lines confirm it, someone who says "I need to move forward" is someone who is not yet at that place, "I need to leave home" only makes sense for people at home.
Likewise "I need to move on" is only said by someone who hasn't moved on.

The bigger question is why is she saying that, or rather, why did the developers decide to make her say it? It could be she says it because its an actual part of her character arc that she moves on from Zack (with Cloud), or it could be just to indicate how despite her efforts, she can't really move on. My personal opinion is that it's done to first make the bond between Aerith and Zack stronger, not weaker, to make it that extra bit tragic that when she thinks she's moving on, she still really hasn't, since it's still Zack she fell in love with, again.

I have to admit that in general I think FFVII has a lot of themes about moving on, which makes me apprehensive to say that Aerith never really does move on from Zack, so while I don't think Aerith really moves on from Zack by replacing him with Cloud (Zack2.0), I do think she's supposed to get some closure from her time with Cloud.

Her one wish was to spend more time with Zack, and through Cloud, that final promise was sorta fulfilled.
 
Her one wish was to spend more time with Zack, and through Cloud, that final promise was sorta fulfilled.
Except, it wasn't. I think this was partly why she left Cloud after Temple of the Ancients and why I feel the "koibito" line from Nojima was an outright retcon, if not a misunderstanding of the original story.

When Aerith left the party after Seph took the black materia, it was a rejection of Cloud. It was a rejection of her "bodyguard," because not only could he not protect her; he was an outright threat to her. None of this directly ties to Zack, but I find it interesting that immediately before Temple of the Ancients we get two scenes that relate back to Zack, 1) the Gold Saucer date where Aerith admits she has a hard time discerning the real Cloud from the qualities he adopted from Zack, and 2) the trip through Gongaga where you are forced to take Aerith with you.

Aerith's date is optional, but perhaps canon, and I'm not entirely sure the game forces you to talk to Zack's parents, but those two scenes are very much about Cloud, Aerith and Zack. Why keep bringing Zack up right before Aerith leaves your party?
 
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“Gotta look forward, not back” is not meant to be taken literally in the context of that scene. In my opinion.

The English language has nuances too that could fly over some people’s heads. Another example is

A: “But she’s someone special”
C: “It’s not like that! More like, I don’t know how to explain”

It’s not meant to be read as Cloud denying Tifa’s importance. If any, it drives home the point that she is special. Aerith was still ribbing him in this scene which is not far from the literal translation of the JP script


Is Max lurking and backreading in this thread? Jk :mon:
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
In Remake, I see all Aerith's interaction with Cloud after she said that line "Gotta move forward" is genuine, she stopped projecting Cloud to be Zack 2.0. Just that. But her heart, who knows, is still longing for Zack, still need an answer which she gets it eventually on the highway where she got a vision of Zack's last stand. And later, with her words of "The sky, I hate it" can be a callback of her once again, reminded that Zack is forever gone; but now she knows why. I think, she would try to move forward again in Part 2, repeating the words in her head positively 'til meeting Zack's parents hit her hard once again. No matter how she tried to leave Zack in the past, a new event is gonna make her be reminded again. That's the saddest part.

Okay, we then get Gold Saucer date and if the dialogue was still the same in OG, it's just Aerith admitted she was attracted to Cloud at first because of Zack, and the player has seen it 'til the playground at least (not in entire journey they have). Once again, it's a good point for her to be ready to move on but...

In OG, Aerith left Cloud to go praying for Holy by herself in Gongaga btw. Well, there's no indication of what exact place did she leave but the place Cloud woke up after the dream where Tifa tells him Aerith had left is in Gongaga Inn. I wonder if FF7R would still emphasize it or even expand it. Why do they return to Gongaga after Temple of Ancient? Why not something new location near it? Did Aerith meet Zack's parents again before deciding to leave the party?

Oh, and don't forget Zack survives in another timelime. But for now, it's all unknown to what would happen next and how it would affect Aerith and Cloud.
 
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Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
When Aerith left the party after Seph took the black materia, it was a rejection of Cloud. It was a rejection of her "bodyguard," because not only could he not protect her; he was an outright threat to her
This I don't agree with, I don't think Aerith chose to leave Cloud behind because he was a threat to her, on the contrary, I think she chose to leave Cloud behind because she started to realize she was a threat to him.

She understood that she was doing him a disservice by vicariously reliving her relationship with Zack through Cloud. she thought Clouds issues were a part of her story, that it was "their" story, and that it was her role to deal with it. But after he attacked her she realized that she'd been selfish, that she'd been using Cloud to get over her own issues, even though it was clearly taking a toll on Clouds psyche.
I think that she realized that Cloud wasn't her issue to fix, an intuition that I think was confirmed when Tifa helped Cloud in the lifestream. It was their story, their shared history, not Aeriths, and Aerith used it to fill the void of Zack. I think that at a point, she realized that sub-conciously, and let Cloud go, and I think that by doing so, the closed the door on Zacks chapter of the story, and her desire to spend more time with him. And by doing so, I think she was reunited with Zack,
 
This I don't agree with, I don't think Aerith chose to leave Cloud behind because he was a threat to her, on the contrary, I think she chose to leave Cloud behind because she started to realize she was a threat to him.

She understood that she was doing him a disservice by vicariously reliving her relationship with Zack through Cloud. she thought Clouds issues were a part of her story, that it was "their" story, and that it was her role to deal with it. But after he attacked her she realized that she'd been selfish, that she'd been using Cloud to get over her own issues, even though it was clearly taking a toll on Clouds psyche.
I think that she realized that Cloud wasn't her issue to fix, an intuition that I think was confirmed when Tifa helped Cloud in the lifestream. It was their story, their shared history, not Aeriths, and Aerith used it to fill the void of Zack. I think that at a point, she realized that sub-conciously, and let Cloud go, and I think that by doing so, the closed the door on Zacks chapter of the story, and her desire to spend more time with him. And by doing so, I think she was reunited with Zack,
I don't see a lot of proof for this theory. It doesn't exactly fit the sequence of events since Aerith left after Cloud attacked her. On top of that, it's not Aerith's fault Cloud attacked her. It's Sephiroth's. Aerith isn't responsible for Cloud's broken psyche.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
I don't see a lot of proof for this theory. It doesn't exactly fit the sequence of events since Aerith left after Cloud attacked her. On top of that, it's not Aerith's fault Cloud attacked her. It's Sephiroth's. Aerith isn't responsible for Cloud's broken psyche.
That's exactly why it fits. Aerith is not the sort of girl who would blame Cloud for that, she knows there is something weird going on, it's just that that's the moment where she realizes "man, maybe going along with me isn't helping his mental state, but just making it worse".

I never said she's responsible, I am just saying that by going on this quest with her, it's getting worse, like you said, because of Sephiroth, that doesn't change the fact that it's seemingly bad for him, and that she would think that she should leave him behind for his own sake.

Aerith isn't thinking about her own safety, she's thinking about Clouds, that's just the way Aerith is I think, which is why she says "Then why don't you really worry about it? And let me handle Sephiroth And Cloud, you take care of yourself. So you don't have a breakdown, okay?". She knows that continuing on the quest isn't safe for Cloud, that he should make sure he himself is ok first.
 
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Eerie

Fire and Blood
I hope the devs will explain it better why Aerith went alone. Personally, I didn't dwell too much on it when I played - it seemed that she didn't think it'd be dangerous, since she was planning on coming back. So I thought she was just letting Cloud rest, because he was all broken down and had beaten her up right before this.
 
Aerith isn't thinking about her own safety, she's thinking about Clouds, that's just the way Aerith is I think, which is why she says "Then why don't you really worry about it? And let me handle Sephiroth And Cloud, you take care of yourself. So you don't have a breakdown, okay?". She knows that continuing on the quest isn't safe for Cloud, that he should make sure he himself is ok first.
Well, that makes more sense, however, I don't think that negates my original point. She still rejected Cloud on some level.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
Well, that makes more sense, however, I don't think that negates my original point. She still rejected Cloud on some level.
Oh I agree, I definitely think she did. I think she sort of realizes she was projecting her own desires onto Cloud, she saw something in him specifically because she was looking for something in him.


Even disregarding the fact that Cloud is in a sense, Zack, and that Aeriths feelings for Zack seemingly latched onto Cloud, I think that even without that, Aeriths' attraction to Cloud is still not really natural, or perhaps "normal" is a better word.

I don't think Aerith slowly fell in love with Cloud because of their time together and an appreciation of who he is (how could that be the case when she literally doesn't know who he is).
I think Aerith was looking to fall in love with Cloud, I think that she not only saw Zack in him, but perhaps a way to get over Zack. She wanted him to be someone, and started acting towards him in a way that fit that vision. In a way, she was acting out a fantasy much like Cloud was, and he played the role of her emotional savior, he's her rebound.

I don't think she really thought about it that much of course, I just think that when she saw Cloud, there was simply a conglomeration of emotions there. A wish to relive her time with Zack, a hope that Cloud was like Zack, or somehow even was Zack, a hope that she could get over Zack with this Soldier, a hope that she could fall in love again, etc. And all of that primed her to develop feelings, and be a bit blind to reality, or at least look at it through a colored lens.

But when Cloud attacks her, I think that's a bit of a reality check for her, a lot of those hopes sort of break, there is a realization that that was a big burden to put on someone, especially someone whose not emotionally well. She realizes he's not her savior, and that both of them have kind of been putting on an act, using each other to avoid facing reality.

So while I do think Aerith rejects Cloud at that point, I don't think she rejects Cloud as an individual, I think she rejects the validity of how their feelings for each other came to be, she rejects the process. I think that had she lived, she'd have tried approaching Cloud as if from square one, trying to see him for who he really is, and seeing whether or not she's attracted to that, instead of forcing herself and him into that role a priori.

Even though Aerith talks a lot about wanting to meet the real Cloud, and gives off the impression of "just wanting Cloud to be himself", I fundamentally don't believe her. She has feelings for (Fake)Cloud, which means that she has SOME vision of who she thinks/hopes/wants him to be. Her feelings come first, her desire for him to be himself followed after, which means it's not pure, there is a weight that comes with her push for him to become "himself", which fundamentally skews the goal.

IF Aerith had lived, I think she'd have rejected all her feelings and hopes for Cloud until after he'd become himself again and both of them are able to have an objective look at who the other truly is. But that's just speculation.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Something I want to talk about because I see the idea being thrown around a lot in some tumblr (yeah don't ask me I was curious what cloti fans were talking about in tumblr), the idea that Aerith is "stepping down", so to speak, because she knows it's pointless.

I'll have to have a hard disagree there. I think what people are forgetting, comparing to the OG, is Crisis Core. People forget that because Zack and his love story with Aerith have been fleshed out, what was before a very fleeting "oh but she's not over Zack!" became much more complicated feelings. It's heavily hinted that she is falling for Cloud, but the fact is that her story with Zack never had closure, so she's right now stuck between her feelings for Zack, and her feelings for Cloud. It doesn't really matter that one is dead and the other is not really himself, because Zack died not so long ago and she still denies it, and Cloud is still super cool and gentle with her. So I find this little story of "Aerith has given up on Cloud" very pervasive and wrong. It is true that by the end of the game, she has taken on her Cetra role. But I still believe there will be more clerith in the next game.

There's also the fact that Tifa is clearly her best friend now, and we're not in 1997 anymore, girls don't flirt openly just to make their friends jealous. This was already such a bad point for Aerith back then in the OG, let's just celebrate that she doesn't do that anymore, shall we?
 
Something I want to talk about because I see the idea being thrown around a lot in some tumblr (yeah don't ask me I was curious what cloti fans were talking about in tumblr), the idea that Aerith is "stepping down", so to speak, because she knows it's pointless.

I'll have to have a hard disagree there. I think what people are forgetting, comparing to the OG, is Crisis Core. People forget that because Zack and his love story with Aerith have been fleshed out, what was before a very fleeting "oh but she's not over Zack!" became much more complicated feelings. It's heavily hinted that she is falling for Cloud, but the fact is that her story with Zack never had closure, so she's right now stuck between her feelings for Zack, and her feelings for Cloud. It doesn't really matter that one is dead and the other is not really himself, because Zack died not so long ago and she still denies it, and Cloud is still super cool and gentle with her. So I find this little story of "Aerith has given up on Cloud" very pervasive and wrong. It is true that by the end of the game, she has taken on her Cetra role. But I still believe there will be more clerith in the next game.

There's also the fact that Tifa is clearly her best friend now, and we're not in 1997 anymore, girls don't flirt openly just to make their friends jealous. This was already such a bad point for Aerith back then in the OG, let's just celebrate that she doesn't do that anymore, shall we?
I mean I've said it before, but I just don't see it. The Remake pushes CxA even less than the original did up to this point. I don't think Cloud is compelling her much, but I do think she desperately wants to move on with her life.

Friends don't chase after the same person, period, and it's pretty clear Aerith is bowing out early. Whether or not she maintains this stance, we shall see.

Like I said before, I think the devs are going to use CxA moments to push CxT and AxZ, like they've been doing throughout several moments in the Remake. Maybe this is wishful thinking, but my interpretation is that the devs are done with the LT. I mean think about it, what options are they left with?
 

minami758

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Miiwoo
I don't think the LTD is over just yet. The ending suggests that Aerith and everyone else think their fates have changed so she might still shoot her shot now that she might think she has a future. Do I know how they're gonna do it? No, especially not with Zack in the picture somehow.

Speaking personally? I don't know if they'll be able to pull off a convincing LTD in future parts without painting Aerith in a somewhat negative light. Not that Tifa has any claim to Cloud's feelings, but given Aerith's foreknowledge (and just her intuition), she can at least tell there's something there. Tifa clearly also feels a bit insecure about herself, so I don't know if Remake Aerith would do that to her, especially given how much their friendship has been pushed. Obviously it's no fault of Aerith's if she does pursue Cloud, but I could see how it might rub people the wrong way, given the way she's been depicted in Part 1. But that's just me.
 

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
We don't have enough evidence to back up that Aerith is "stepping down" as of now (plus it is too early in the game). Whether we like it or not, the LTD is still an important part of FFVII, so I don't see them throwing in the towel just yet =( And well, It isn't just Aerith...there's Cloud too...

Speaking personally? I don't know if they'll be able to pull off a convincing LTD in future parts without painting Aerith in a somewhat negative light. Not that Tifa has any claim to Cloud's feelings, but given Aerith's foreknowledge (and just her intuition), she can at least tell there's something there. Tifa clearly also feels a bit insecure about herself, so I don't know if Remake Aerith would do that to her, especially given how much their friendship has been pushed. Obviously it's no fault of Aerith's if she does pursue Cloud, but I could see how it might rub people the wrong way, given the way she's been depicted in Part 1. But that's just me.
I've been worrying about this too, tbh. I came to perceive Aerith and Tifa's friendship/rivalry in OG as a product of its time, but now that this is (thankfully) out of the table I do wonder how are they gonna make the LTD work?

Aerith and Tifa clearly love adore each other and Aerith, being the most intuitive person of the trio, should be able to sense what's going on among them. So, I can't see her actively pursuing/flirting with Cloud as she did in OG knowing it can hurt Tifa..!? At the same time, it's just not fair to Aerith either if being with Cloud is what she wants.

Unless they decide to have their characters being oblivious to each other's feelings..?! And while I can excuse Cloud on this ( my man keeps seeing visions and then act as nothing is happening...yeah, he gets a free pass here lol) that would be too unrealistic for both girls, honestly.

The easiest way to resolve this in real life would be to have an honest conversation between these two girls. Where they could go through their feelings and reach a consensus of "whatever happens, happens" and "no hard feelings between them". But would SE have their characters so openly talking about their feelings like this? I can't see it happening either.

But maybe we're thinking too much and they've already thought of an easy way to solve all of this? :sweatsmile: Well, as long as they keep my Aerti safe I'll be cool with it =)

Edit: typos everywherrre
 
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shersita007

Rookie Adventurer
Speaking of the es from Remake, I read the following in a blog. Someone has the Japanese soundtrack of the game, and the theme that plays in chap 8 is not Hollow, is 'Empty sky' - hollow skies. I read somewhere Nojima talked about 'empty skies' like some reference to Zack (but I can't remember 100% what it says, so don't take my word).

While 'Hollow' does plays in the ending crédits and in Remake ending last minutes when Zack is passing by Aerith and Cloud (but only Aerith sense him), this will match with the theme being inspire in a wasteland, raining storm, with earth cracked returning to life (Zack's death).

Link_1

Is also funny the part from OG, that was cut on Remake were Tifa ask Cloud if he sleeps well, and player can choose 'next to you who wouldn' t'. This scene obviously is no longer on Remake, but in the other side, is curious to see that on Remake they put Cloud living next to Tifa on sector 7.
 
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