SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Graymouse

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
shersita007 said:
Speaking of the es from Remake, I read the following in a blog. Someone has the Japanese soundtrack of the game, and the theme that plays in chap 8 is not Hollow, is 'Empty sky' - hollow skies. I read somewhere Nojima talked about 'empty skies' like some reference to Zack (but I can't remember 100% what it says, so don't take my word).

While 'Hollow' does plays in the ending crédits and in Remake ending last minutes when Zack is passing by Aerith and Cloud (but only Aerith sense him), this will match with the theme being inspire in a wasteland, raining storm, with earth cracked returning to life (Zack's death).

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Is also funny the part from OG, that was cut on Remake were Tifa ask Cloud if he sleeps well, and player can choose 'next to you who wouldn' t'. This scene obviously is no longer on Remake, but in the other side, is curious to see that on Remake they put Cloud living next to Tifa on sector 7.
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Wow, that is a great find. I truthfully thought that song was Hollow that was playing in Chapter 8. It sounds very familiar. I guess this proves that it is always about ones perception and biases can and does confuse reality.
 
Eerie

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Mmh, it’s Hollow without lyrics, in sector 5... and Zack’s shadow looming over their interactions in ch8. I feel like there’s something to dig there but it’s too early for me XD
 
shersita007

shersita007

Lv. 25 Adventurer
Eerie said:
Mmh, it’s Hollow without lyrics, in sector 5... and Zack’s shadow looming over their interactions in ch8. I feel like there’s something to dig there but it’s too early for me XD
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The song definetely have some shadows about Zack fate (death). Empty sky (they associated Skies with Zack, since there's were he went?). It supposed to reflect Cloud current state of mind, anxiety, so this 'empty sky' or Hollow in JP plays when there is tragic and lost, so the JP theme also plays on the plate fall, is more about the location and current events than what may happens in the future.

Then we have 'hollow' in English, playing at the end while Zack is passing by Aerith and Cloud, and again Aerith mentions the 'sky'.
 
Yumelinh

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
The Twilight Mexican said:
It's referring to love in the broadest sense, though.
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Indeed. But there are at least 2 ( 3 I think?) others in the 'romantic love' category here and since we know that Cloud and Tifa don't really fit into any of the other 'love' categories depicted in this image, I think we can safely assume that they're there to represent 'romantic love' too.

edit: 'category' is definitely not the best word to be used here...but couldn't find a better one ;--;
 
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M

minami758

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Miiwoo
Chaoticgumbo said:
It’s still love. And considering they are both involved in a love triangle, I think it’s a pretty powerful statement from PlayStation Japan to represent these two together in this manner.
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I don't think it's that deep — like I don't think this single Instagram post by PS Japan indicates the ultimate canonical pairing of FFVII. As a CT fan it was really sweet to see them placed side-by-side with these other relationships that represent love (I do think they represent romantic love in this case), and I like that it's endorsed by an official source, but I'm also not gonna take too much stock in it in the long run. The game does enough for me already, haha. This is more like a nice easter egg/extra goodie, imo.
 
Yumelinh

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
minami758 said:
I don't think it's that deep — like I don't think this single Instagram post by PS Japan indicates the ultimate canonical pairing of FFVII. As a CT fan it was really sweet to see them placed side-by-side with these other relationships that represent love (I do think they represent romantic love in this case), and I like that it's endorsed by an official source, but I'm also not gonna take too much stock in it in the long run. The game does enough for me already, haha. This is more like a nice easter egg/extra goodie, imo.
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Pretty much this! It's not like this is the final word or something, but it's a nice thing to see that the admin of that Instagram was confident enough to put their relationship there. But, in the end, it really has no relevance/weight in what's gonna happen the actual game.


But it is still a nice little nod, I'm quite pleased :)

Anyway, @odekopeko also posted in the Cloti thread that CT was also featured in a post by Playstation Weibo about...hugs I guess? :sweatsmile:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1276139020456587267
 
shersita007

shersita007

Lv. 25 Adventurer
Yumelinh said:
Pretty much this! It's not like this is the final word or something, but it's a nice thing to see that the admin of that Instagram was confident enough to put their relationship there. But, in the end, it really has no relevance/weight in what's gonna happen the actual game.


But it is still a nice little nod, I'm quite pleased :)

Anyway, @odekopeko also posted in the Cloti thread that CT was also featured in a post by Playstation Weibo about...hugs I guess? :sweatsmile:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1276139020456587267
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Well, they are the endgame couple of FF7 OG and they are described as living together after it. So, is not unusual for PS to put them in the context of love.

Unless SE decides to provide another type of ending to Remake, but what we have until now from compilations and OG, is about them being together in a platónical or a real romántic way, depends how the person wants to intérpret it.
 
Graymouse

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
Alright, I have taken a break from this thread for a bit so I would like to add some thoughts here because I have seen this argument stated many times over on the many forums and blogs.

So for this, let's talk about the Cloud X Aerith argument about the Cloud X Tifa hug scene being manipulative and abusive to Cloud.


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Booby traps the hallway outside of her room so that she can hear if Cloud tries to leave without her knowing.

Forces Cloud back into his room when he sets off said booby traps, and also calling him a jerk as she pushes Cloud back into to his room while saying “I thought I told you to stay in your room.”

When Cloud does make it out of the house she sneaks on ahead so he absolutely will not be able to continue without her.

Takes him through a long and dangerous route just because SHE wants to spend more time with him (to back up this claim, while in the playground
when Cloud asks if she’ll be ok getting home by herself she says she has a backup route for emergencies that’s safer) Also, she said it herself that she "isn't tired of him yet."

Wants to stop and relight a campfire to have a break just to draw out their time together despite him trying to leave her house multiple times and constantly saying he needs to get back to Sector 7 as fast as possible.

When finally at the door to sector 7 she says “more importantly, how about a break” and completely ignores his protests, that he has to get back to Sector 7

Cloud has no choice but to follow her because he doesn’t know the way back on his own.
She ignores Cloud’s constant protests and saying he needs to get back, essentially holds him hostage just because she wants to spend more time with him.

These are all things that she subjectively does. She knew he wanted to get back, so instead she takes him through a long and dangerous route despite having a safer alternative route and ignores what he wants and says.

As I have stated before, these are some of the reasons why I do not like Aerith. So, in case you are wondering I do not find these moments above cute and shippy, no I am not bashing on Aerith for doing these things. I am simply pointing out the double standard that whenever Tifa has a moment with Cloud she is somehow being manipulative and abusive, yet Aerith who is actively being manipulative is ignored or twisted to be something cute, endearing, and shippy, and to believe otherwise is somehow unfair don't you think?

Just a reminder like Tifa, Aerith has flaws too and pointing out a flaw she has when another character is being given a flaw she doesn’t have isn’t bashing. What is bashing is hating on Tifa for saying that she is manipulative and giving her flaws and personality traits she doesn’t have just because Cloud hugged her in the CH14 resolution scene.
 
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Eerie

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Yes, it’s a very direct reference to the promise lol. It’s the fact that it was done for Tanabata that makes it even more shippy. And even I, who doesn’t care about Tanabata, must admit it really fits cloti, with the stars, the wish and the reunion which are all cloti motifs.
 
L

loozzer

Pro Adventurer
TifaxCloud said:
Correct. Then it's pretty telling that CLoud and Aerith don't even have love in the broadest sense, let alone a romantic one.
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that's a reach, anyone can tell that aerith and cloud care for each other and have some sort of romantic feelings/attraction for each other. just because there isn't a post about it doesn't mean it's not there. I mean they didn't include a photo of barret and marlene, would you argue that they also don't have love in the broadest sense?

the only thing this post (and all the other pro-cloti posts from playstation) proves is the popularity of cloti and how popular opinion has shifted from cloud/aerith as the main couple.
 
S

Stiggie

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AKA
Stiggie
loozzer said:
that's a reach, anyone can tell that aerith and cloud care for each other and have some sort of romantic feelings/attraction for each other. just because there isn't a post about it doesn't mean it's not there. I mean they didn't include a photo of barret and marlene, would you argue that they also don't have love in the broadest sense?

the only thing this post (and all the other pro-cloti posts from playstation) proves is the popularity of cloti and how popular opinion has shifted from cloud/aerith as the main couple.
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Agreed, although it bothers me that love is used so broadly. There are so many different feelings that we describe as "love".
I've noticed that words very much determine the way we think, if we have a word for something, it helps us understand it more.
Some cultures divide colors up into more categories than we tend to do, and as a result, they apparently are simply better at recognizing different colors.

It's weird to me that something as nuanced and multi-faceted as "love" is so often just thrown under this umbrella term.

Sure, we sometimes try to differentiate "it's not love, it's a crush", or "in love" instead of "love". Either implying something temporary or else a process. But when I look at the amount of words there are for different types of rain, I feel like what Cloud feels for Tifa and for Aerith shouldn't be given the same word, the feelings are too unique I'd wager.

I guess affection is the best thing I can come up with.
 
Yumelinh

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
@Stiggie We had a similar discussion on this topic not too long ago here, and I think @Theozilla's post summed up this topic in the best possible way:

Theozilla said:
Romantic topics by their very nature are also extremely subjective subjects. Terms like "in love", "loving someone", "having romantic feelings", "having a major crush", etc. can essentially mean the same thing to some people, while for others each of those terms are significantly different in meaning, as well what it takes to qualify as those things. Making the topic in general a prime ground for miscommunication.
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So, I guess this is more about our personal perceptions of love and its aspects. And since the nature of Cloud's feelings for Aerith in OG has never been officially stated before, it leaves room for people to interpret it either as affection/attraction as you do (and so do I) or just simply... love.

Cloud's feelings for Tifa are a completely different matter. We know for a fact what's the nature of it and that it runs as deep as Tifa's feelings for him. There's not much room for interpretations here.

So, now that I think of it, the ambiguity of the LTD doesn't lie too much onto who Cloud loves or ends up with (we know the answer for that), but what was the nature of Cloud's feelings for Aerith at the time they spent together?! And I guess this is how the devs intended it to be...?!

Because in OG, If you favored Tifa in your playthrough during the first Disc, you might end up thinking that Cloud’s feelings for Aerith were just a small crush, but if you favored Aerith instead then you may ending up thinking it was something stronger than that.

The remake seems to be less likely to play it in the same way as before. They seem to be setting boundaries at what leave up to interpretation and what not to, so maybe we will get a definitive answer to that (or maybe not... it's SE after all).
 
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Ryushikaze

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Stiggie said:
Agreed, although it bothers me that love is used so broadly. There are so many different feelings that we describe as "love".
I've noticed that words very much determine the way we think, if we have a word for something, it helps us understand it more.
Some cultures divide colors up into more categories than we tend to do, and as a result, they apparently are simply better at recognizing different colors.

It's weird to me that something as nuanced and multi-faceted as "love" is so often just thrown under this umbrella term.

Sure, we sometimes try to differentiate "it's not love, it's a crush", or "in love" instead of "love". Either implying something temporary or else a process. But when I look at the amount of words there are for different types of rain, I feel like what Cloud feels for Tifa and for Aerith shouldn't be given the same word, the feelings are too unique I'd wager.

I guess affection is the best thing I can come up with.
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The equivocal nature of the word love and how people use it especially in the LTD always remids me of this sketch
 
TifaxCloud

TifaxCloud

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TiaxZatch
Member was warned to refrain from hostile and unnecessary personal remarks
loozzer said:
that's a reach, anyone can tell that aerith and cloud care for each other and have some sort of romantic feelings/attraction for each other.
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Sounds like you're projecting. "omg its so obvious they luv each othr" isn't evidence. Every "romantic" gesture Cloud shows towards Aerith is player choice and can be entirely skipped. You can go out of your way to make the most anti-Tifa playthrough you want but Cloud is locked into multiple scenes with Tifa. Developer's comments also back up what Cloud is feeling during these moments. It' a bigger stretch to assume there's any proven, canon romantic "relationship" with Aerith and the only "evidence" you said is "wah its so obvious!!!1"

the only thing this post (and all the other pro-cloti posts from playstation) proves is the popularity of cloti and how popular opinion has shifted from cloud/aerith as the main couple.
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lmao, crying conspiracy because Clerith isn't a thing. This isn't the Witcher bro, this isn't a choice of your liking where you can choose dialogue and project your feelings into the main character as designed. Where Geralt is a combination of his backstory and the player's choices; Cloud is his own character and the developers give you absolutely no choice on deviating from it.

Aerith fans use projection way too hard in their arguments. It's like y'all think this is a BioWare game or a dating sim. Preferences are one thing, and you can ship Clerith all you want, but making up your own story and saying it's a fact (when all the evidence is quite literally the contrary) is another thing entirely.
 
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