SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
faefolk
Pro Adventurer
Again, I'm pretty sure it's been as dead as Aerith since '97. I've read all the newer leaks and haven't seen anything that supports it being alive.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Aerith's been officially coping after Zack's death since CC, if not since OG, really, but yes, spelling it out even more clearly would be nice.
Yumelinh
Pro Adventurer
null
Mr. Thou
- AKA
- null
True enough. However if I understand correctly Aerith directly inserted Cloud into the CC date scenario, which seems like a whole new level of cope. Unfortunately not everyone has played Crisis Core, so I hope things like this aren't left to the players to piece together.
rkss
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Me
Tbh when dev said they'd focus on giving both girl equal contents. I knew what'd be their "priority". So I don't believe it will end, not in part 2.
I'm more worry about the fact that Zack is now a factor and half-alive and so... uh it makes things "weird". Even weirder when the game kinda implies both girls know other loves cloud.
Maybe I'm just too self aware to find it's a strange direction dev are going. People that like interaction between party members probably don't mind much.
I'm more worry about the fact that Zack is now a factor and half-alive and so... uh it makes things "weird". Even weirder when the game kinda implies both girls know other loves cloud.
Maybe I'm just too self aware to find it's a strange direction dev are going. People that like interaction between party members probably don't mind much.
ThePieSamurai
Lv. 25 Adventurer
- AKA
- Pie Samurai
I do not understand how people can deny the obvious. ‘Advent Children’, the absolute canonical movie that takes place two years after the end of the OG, shows that Cloud and Tifa are in a relationship. They live together, they take care of Marlene when Barrett is out scouting for new oil fields, and they have unofficially adopted an orphan son, Denzel. Shoot, Barrett even refers to Tifa as Denzel’s mom when the team winds up in Edge as they prepare to fight the summoned Bahamut. The movie doesn’t leave it up for speculation - Tifa and Cloud are together in a romantic relationship.
So why do people, what y’all refer to as “Shippers”, get so up in arms about Cloud and Tifa being together? Like I’ve stated before in this thread Cloud’s feelings for Aerith are only partially real. Most of his feelings for her and towards her come from his subconscious memories of Zack, who told Cloud a lot about her. While he doesn’t remember Zack and their conversations about Aerith until Tifa is able to help Cloud piece together his fractured psyche in the Lifestream he still has those memories and conversations at the forefront of his subconscious mind. Aerith is similar as well - many of her feelings for Cloud come from the fact that he is so much like Zack. Because he’s basically Zack inside his Cloud shell she is naturally drawn to him.
Had Aerith survived the OG do you think that they would have went on to become man and wife? I don’t, not at all. I don’t think that they would have had a relationship after the end of the OG that would have lasted more than a few months, perhaps even a year or two.
The OG makes it pretty apparent that Cloud has had serious romantic feelings, bordering on infatuation, for Tifa since they were children. Much of his behavior as a child was due to his desire for her to notice him, and the OG definitely hints that she did and had some pre-teen and teenage romantic infatuation with him as well, although she didn’t show it.
Destiny and fate are a big part of the FFVII universe, and I think that Cloud and Tifa were fated to love one another, and that Aerith’s survival wouldn’t change that. I’d be perfectly fine with one of the Aeriths to survive, but I don’t think that she and Cloud would be together for long, if even at all, in a world in which she lives and Zack is dead, and there’s virtually no chance that Aerith would chose to be with Cloud in a world in which Zack survives.
Whether you like it or not Cloud and Aerith are not meant to be together. They are, at best, star-crossed lovers akin to Romeo and Juliet, but Romeo survives while Juliet dies.
animosity07
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Anima
Hardcore shippers need to channel their passion to eroge games instead of inventing scenes in their head those type of games actually let them choose their ending lmao
aeriths
Lv. 25 Adventurer
It’s completely understandable why people feel strongly both to Cloti and Clerith. Both ships are given content and baited because it brings in money.
I can see with Cleriths enjoy it, it can be seen as a tragic budding romance cut short by a horrible fate. Cloti because it’s childhood crush turned into something more with a perfect crescendo within the lifestream sequence.
That being said, with rebirth I don’t think it’s a coincidence despite being optional or not there is a scene where Cloud can confess and kiss Tifa—his first kiss and only kiss in the entire franchise with one of the two main love interests and why we have Zack back showing how much he cares for Aerith with Aerith being conflicted over her feelings/coping with lies on why Zack is gone, and still ultimately dying. This with everything supposedly ending up with Advent Children there is a messy, but pretty clear narrative they’re planning out.
Tl;dr: both ships have appeal, but the endgame narrative is pretty clear when you take off shipping goggles
Maidenofwar
They/Them
Follow up from earlier,
I guess, I mean, maybe I'm just googly eyed about everything, or compartmentalise in different ways, seeing everything as distinct and different possibilities, in my game if I'm dating Aerith, I'm not in a relationship with Tifa, and vice verca, etc. So I don't really see Tifa or Aerith as bad characters in the way some do. Similarly I don't see Aerith as knowing all this about Zack, she's been losing her memories. I think after the party emerges to face the unknown future she has lost a lot. Also this Aerith is not the one Zack gets back to, well idk, it's not the Aerith he reunites with? and meanwhile our Aerith lost memories and went on a journey making new ones even if some of them might have been recreating ones she already had. It's confusing xD
I guess, I mean, maybe I'm just googly eyed about everything, or compartmentalise in different ways, seeing everything as distinct and different possibilities, in my game if I'm dating Aerith, I'm not in a relationship with Tifa, and vice verca, etc. So I don't really see Tifa or Aerith as bad characters in the way some do. Similarly I don't see Aerith as knowing all this about Zack, she's been losing her memories. I think after the party emerges to face the unknown future she has lost a lot. Also this Aerith is not the one Zack gets back to, well idk, it's not the Aerith he reunites with? and meanwhile our Aerith lost memories and went on a journey making new ones even if some of them might have been recreating ones she already had. It's confusing xD
null
Mr. Thou
- AKA
- null
@Maidenofwar I definitely don't view it as taking different routes when I play. It's more like bringing a dynamic that already exists to the forefront. Everything that happens on the Barret date? To me that's 100% what Cloud and Barret's relationship is, whether I get the cutscene or not.
Same with everyone else. There's no way for the player to seriously change any relationships; only the story itself affects that. Like, I couldn't make Tifa give up on Cloud no matter how hard I tried to blow her off.
Same with everyone else. There's no way for the player to seriously change any relationships; only the story itself affects that. Like, I couldn't make Tifa give up on Cloud no matter how hard I tried to blow her off.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
I don't really see Tifa pursuing Cloud that zealously for most of disc 1 tbh. Rebirth seems different. Tifa
trying to kiss Cloud in Gongaga? Like wow.
Yumelinh
Pro Adventurer
null
Mr. Thou
- AKA
- null
Just put your comment in between the tags.
Code:
[SPOILER="Rebirth Spoiler!"]Super secret spoilers go here[/SPOILER]
Zach1545
Rookie Adventurer
[ I'm focused on the unlockable romantic scenes in Rebirth, according to the leaks. Aerith stumbles into Cloud's arms on the gold saucer date. she says she's trying so hard to find Cloud. she rest her head on his shoulder and they hold hands. On the date with Tifa, she tries to express her feelings for Cloud, who in response pulls her in for a hug and kisses her. That's a night and day difference in my opinion. Which is not like OG FF7 at all. ]
Stiggie said:
Perhaps a gentler way to look at Aerith's behavior without demonizing her as "backstabbing, boyfriend stealing person, who has no loyalty to Zack" in Rebirth (if what I get from the leaks is correct) is that she is HAS already been constantly trying to suss out Cloud and Tifa's relationship to see if it's safe to admit to Cloud what she feels about him - that's why she keeps asking Cloud questions about Tifa, flirts with Cloud in front of Tifa etc. But because the both of them are not forthcoming in admitting their feelings for each other to anyone else, and the bulk of their affection happens in private spaces, she isn't given a clear "he's taken" signal, perhaps tries to shoot her last shot before death. The good way to think about her is: If Cloud and Tifa just fessed up, Aerith would have supported her friends and taken her feelings to the grave.
I know a lot of LTD combatants interpret Rebirth Aerith's behavior to try to "steal her friends man" but from a person that's dying, she does not have 100% confirmation that the man she likes is in love with someone else, and she just takes her small and final chance to see he feels the same way, and, well, die knowing, so she tries. But to the viewer we all know she's just coping with Zack, and when she doesn't get the reinforcement she needs at her very last chance, she acknowledges this. It's a little sad, really.
That's the gentlest, most sympathetic explanation I can give on behalf of Aerith, because there are a lot of bad takes out there ripping Aerith apart.
MaidenofWar said:
It sounds like you're positioning it like Tifa is coming onto Cloud the way Aerith hits on him, but I'm sure that conversation between them is so emotionally charged that
even YUFFIE
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faefolk
Pro Adventurer
Yeah, the whole thing with *extreme Cleriths is to say that Cloud is completely romantically illiterate and 'he just doesn't express it with Aerith because he's soooo clueless' but that's just not the case and they've gone out of their way to show us that.
[ The scene up on YouTube after the clock tower where they meet up in the tunnel and Barret asks where they've been and Aerith says 'a date' and latches on to Clouds arm - you can see he's aware of Tifas feelings because he looks straight at her and pushes his arm out to distance Aerith and looks very uncomfortable. Like he's not the most savvy at navigating things and is definitely awkward- but Cleriths act like he's mentally a child with zero clue. It's cemented on the GS date when Tifa vaguely alludes to her feelings and he jumps straight to reassure her and makes a move. I keep seeing *extreme Cleriths saying 'oh he's not even acting like him in this scene' because they avoid seeing that he's actually his own person with agency who has romantic feelings and can act on them. ]
Editing to add that I'm specifically referencing really extreme people. You get them on both sides, I'm aware.
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Maidenofwar
They/Them
Well...they actually tried to kiss each other
Edit: forgot to censor spoilers
I didn't see any full video or context yet so
I thought maybe Tifa tries to kiss Cloud, things start happening, but then they get Interrupted
null
Mr. Thou
- AKA
- null
Yeah, I found it shocking to be honest. After I heard Tifa got a kiss I was positive Aerith had one on the way. We kept hearing about them being treated "equally" and this is Aerith's farewell tour after all. I didn't think SE had the chutzpah to draw the line like that.
Now, Tifa and Cloud already had sparks flying every which way in Remake. They kept ending up in each other's arms, touching, reaching, yelling each other's names, and the body language in Cloud's room... my goodness the body language. So it doesn't surprise me they're heading to first base at this point.
And yeah, OG date was just Cloud being dense with different partners. Glad to see him take the initiative in Rebirth like a manly man.
Now, Tifa and Cloud already had sparks flying every which way in Remake. They kept ending up in each other's arms, touching, reaching, yelling each other's names, and the body language in Cloud's room... my goodness the body language. So it doesn't surprise me they're heading to first base at this point.
And yeah, OG date was just Cloud being dense with different partners. Glad to see him take the initiative in Rebirth like a manly man.
faefolk
Pro Adventurer
Maidenofwar
They/Them
PS the whole vaguing with "Clotis" and "Cleriths" we don't really do that here. Let's not make generalisations.
faefolk
Pro Adventurer
There was a SS compilation of the lead up to the interruption and
I didn't see any full video or context yet soI thought maybe Tifa tries to kiss Cloud, things start happening, but then they get Interrupted
you see them both leaning in. I'm assuming this is where the GS dialogue comes in where Tifa is like 'am I getting ahead of myself again' I assumed it was reference to their near kiss earlier on