SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Lex]

Oh no. Spent way too much time in that thread of chaos and now you're a Zackbro.

See link to rules regarding behaviour in this thread.

How this shitshow works; to be read before posting here (ATTN: updated 8/23/21)

[Addendum made August 23, 2021: If you intend to equate people shipping something you disagree about to the KKK, Nazis, or a similarly hyperbolic real-world point of reference -- or otherwise invoke imagery associated with these and similar real-world references -- please don't. We will ban...

thelifestream.net

To clarify, I am not warning you specifically, it's just that people have been playing fast and loose with the rules in here and this topic is (for very good reason) more strictly moderated than the rest of the site

 

[billy22]

… is what I’d like to say but we got another full game y’all, and we ain’t even started this one!

Let us cope. We all want this shitshow to end. For the sake of our sanity.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I caught up with this thread before I caught up with the spoiler thread so I didn’t know what @Makoeyes987 was referring to, but my immediate reaction was “well, if Mako’s this sure about something, there’s probably some truth to it.”

Then I caught up to the spoiler thread and…ouch. Just…ouch. A good ol’ masamune to the back woulda been less painful, hot damn.

 

[Biscuit]

They really went and killed it in every possible way. When I meant they're making a tribute to cloti, I wasn't expecting this at all. I'm very happy for the cloti fans! Unfortunately SENA has made a few adjustments, but I hope that doesn't deter the enjoyment.

 

[frosty]

I never really used to care much for Aerith, but damn, I want part 3 to give her the happiest reunion with Zack because oouuff I never expected them to end the LTD this way

 

[Maidenofwar]

Nakama stuff doesn't scare me,

Spoiler: hey listen! navi sounds

Cloud also calls Tifa nakama before too, I'm not going to allow some bad faith interpretations (talking about the worst of takes in the other thread nobody here) ruin my enjoyment of the game.

Cloud literally calls the church our place, basically says he wants to do it again, and Aerith gets the Reunion flower brooch like Leslie gives his fiancee, nothing is over, it's not a friendzone.

A few days ago, when nobody was leaking Clerith content, and then I read about my favourite character dying again I decided not to go out of my way to get a new console and the game, then screenshots, etc started happening, etc of stuff Cleriths had theorised, made predictions and wishes for. I'm not going to let different interpretations of scenes ruin that for me. I'm back, still aten't ded, and not getting off that train.

Anyway apparently it's not as in buddy Cloud uses but a comrade word which doesn't quite translate directly to English so localisation did the best with it they could and localised it to fit the context of the scene. I saw it best said somewhere else but it's not some kind of conspiracy theory from square Enix North America or anywhere else to mess with shippers or anything

 

[frosty]

It's not the nakama stuff and the semantics of it and oh Nakama has been used for Tifa, and obsure anime abcd used nakama for a couple that ended up canon so therefore, nakama can be lovers eventually.

its

Spoiler

Aerith herself interpreting Cloud's actions as "this is where I stand", he does not reciprocate the way I had hoped, I will say my farewell with affection and need to sort out what I really feel, it goes no further than this

But the way its set up is, every shipper gets to have their fun, everyone gets their fanservice, and no one should rob yr enjoyment, if that's what you want.

 

[null]

Let us cope. We all want this shitshow to end. For the sake of our sanity.

By all means, cope. If you want to celebrate victory at halftime, that's your perogative. I couldn't stop you even if I wanted to. But this isn't our first rodeo. The LTD has been declared over countless times and the goalposts always find creative ways to shift.

And no matter how devastatingly one-sided and irreversable it seems right now, it's objectively not over yet. There's still multiverse bullshit in play, still a bunch of not-quite-impossibilities that haven't been ruled out, still time for fan pressure in Japan to make shareholders nervous. And all it takes is a one-off comment from Kitase or Nomura to keep the debate raging for years to come.

 

[loozzer]

It's not the nakama stuff and the semantics of it and oh Nakama has been used for Tifa, and obsure anime abcd used nakama for a couple that ended up canon so therefore, nakama can be lovers eventually.

its

Spoiler

Aerith herself interpreting Cloud's actions as "this is where I stand", he does not reciprocate the way I had hoped, I will say my farewell with affection and need to sort out what I really feel, it goes no further than this

But the way its set up is, every shipper gets to have their fun, everyone gets their fanservice, and no one should rob yr enjoyment, if that's what you want.

the argument right now for cleriths is that cloud misunderstood her intentions and will realise it later on, at which time he will also realise his true feelings. which i mean.... i don't even know what to say LOL

 

[faefolk]

By all means, cope. If you want to celebrate victory at halftime, that's your perogative. I couldn't stop you even if I wanted to. But this isn't our first rodeo. The LTD has been declared over countless times and the goalposts always find creative ways to shift.

And no matter how devastatingly one-sided and irreversable it seems right now, it's objectively not over yet. There's still multiverse bullshit in play, still a bunch of not-quite-impossibilities that haven't been ruled out, still time for fan pressure in Japan to make shareholders nervous. And all it takes is a one-off comment from Kitase or Nomura to keep the debate raging for years to come.

'celebrate a victory at halftime'

Man, I celebrated a 'victory' after the Lifestream and Under the Highwind when I was just eleven. My 'victory' has been reaffirmed by every single thing released by the compilation lol.

But also it's not actually a victory, it's just interpreting the story as it was intended.

I was so not going to comment on a LTD thread but heck, I don't understand what you guys are seeing that I don't. Aerith was literally designed as a manic pixie dream girl and like... She's a great one. But that's what she is.

 

[null]

'celebrate a victory at halftime'

Man, I celebrated a 'victory' after the Lifestream and Under the Highwind when I was just eleven. My 'victory' has been reaffirmed by every single thing released by the compilation lol.

But also it's not actually a victory, it's just interpreting the story as it was intended.

I was so not going to comment on a LTD thread but heck, I don't understand what you guys are seeing that I don't. Aerith was literally designed as a manic pixie dream girl and like... She's a great one. But that's what she is.

I don't follow. 98% of us are in agreement that the debate was over on 31 January 1997. That's never stopped it from happening.

 

[faefolk]

I don't follow. 98% of us are in agreement that the debate was over on 31 January 1997. That's never stopped it from happening.

Oh, ohhhh I thought you were talking about Cloud/Aerith being the endgame. Like Cloud/Tifa shouldn't declare victory haha.

My bad!

I seriously feel like I'm going insane though. I don't know what the other side is seeing. Scenes are being released on YouTube now and Cloud honestly just looks super annoyed at Aerith most of the time. I know he values her friendship but I get 'she's a bit much' and 'why are you touching me' vibes from him constantly.

 

[loozzer]

I've been pretty sure that they'd put the LTD to rest ever since I read an interview that Britt Baron did back in 2020:

Now I have to ask, were you aware of the love triangle stuff before you took the part?

Oh, no. No, no, no. Not at all actually. I don't even think I was really aware of it till recently just through social media? But when we were recording it, I just started getting a little confused about what the relationship is. And so, I asked and... I mean, I think it makes me a little sad that we live in a society where women just always are... It seems to be pinned against each other. And I think what I was really excited about when I talked to the creative team is that that's really not...


she cuts herself off but it was pretty clear to me that she had a discussion with the team where it was confirmed what the character's feelings for each other really were and that there isn't really a love triangle.

 

[faefolk]

I've been pretty sure that they'd put the LTD to rest ever since I read an interview that Britt Baron did back in 2020:

Now I have to ask, were you aware of the love triangle stuff before you took the part?

Oh, no. No, no, no. Not at all actually. I don't even think I was really aware of it till recently just through social media? But when we were recording it, I just started getting a little confused about what the relationship is. And so, I asked and... I mean, I think it makes me a little sad that we live in a society where women just always are... It seems to be pinned against each other. And I think what I was really excited about when I talked to the creative team is that that's really not...


she cuts herself off but it was pretty clear to me that she had a discussion with the team where it was confirmed what the character's feelings for each other really were and that there isn't really a love triangle.

Yeah, the creators intention seems pretty clear - so that's unsurprising. It's a real shame that people insist on turning everything so catty and awful.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Cloud is annoyed at Aerith is an interpretation that has been going around forever that was debunked by the Ultimanias saying he enjoys spending time with her. Why would he want a next time if he's so annoyed. Ultimanias confirm that he has a good time while he is with her. The other side doesn't see Cloud being super annoyed at Aerith because they know he's not.

 

[loozzer]

Cloud is annoyed at Aerith is an interpretation that has been going around forever that was debunked by the Ultimanias saying he enjoys spending time with her. Why would he want a next time if he's so annoyed. Ultimanias confirm that he has a good time while he is with her.

do you not have friends that are kinda too energetic and a little annoying at times but at the end of the day you still have a good time with them and really like hanging out with them?

 

[faefolk]

Cloud is annoyed at Aerith is an interpretation that has been going around forever that was debunked by the Ultimanias saying he enjoys spending time with her. Why would he want a next time if he's so annoyed. Ultimanias confirm that he has a good time while he is with her. The other side doesn't see Cloud being super annoyed at Aerith because they know he's not.

I have tonnes of close friends I enjoy spending time with who I find a bit much. I'm not very touchy and affectionate. It doesn't mean I don't enjoy our friendship - I just find it kind of exhausting? Like I wouldn't want to be around them all the time but I'll accept their affection with like awkward arm pats or something.

Cloud is very obviously a fairly standoffish and touch adverse person. He probably doesn't enjoy being hung off of - that doesn't mean he doesn't like the person doing it.

 

[Maidenofwar]

He's not super annoyed or bothered by the touching, and I'll leave it at that. Numerous times he touches her as well.

 

[faefolk]

He's not super annoyed or bothered by the touching, and I'll leave it at that. Numerous times he touches her as well.

If you say so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Yumelinh]

I'm with @Maidenofwar that one! Even though he's kinda bothered bc he keeps getting dragged around by Aerith, he clearly does like spending time with her. I don't like the notion that Cloud is always annoyed by Aerith, and it doesn't even need to have anything to do with ship stuff. Barret also pulls all his strings, and we're never bringing this up to say he doesn't like to be around him.

Cloud is pure soft on the inside. I'd say his annoyance is much more of a facade. He was like that too when he was a child after all, lol.

 

[billy22]

By all means, cope. If you want to celebrate victory at halftime, that's your perogative. I couldn't stop you even if I wanted to. But this isn't our first rodeo. The LTD has been declared over countless times and the goalposts always find creative ways to shift.

And no matter how devastatingly one-sided and irreversable it seems right now, it's objectively not over yet. There's still multiverse bullshit in play, still a bunch of not-quite-impossibilities that haven't been ruled out, still time for fan pressure in Japan to make shareholders nervous. And all it takes is a one-off comment from Kitase or Nomura to keep the debate raging for years to come.

Oh don't worry. I have been a part of this fandom for 15 years. I am fully aware that the goalposts just get moved every time.

I still remember those Ultimania's coming out in 2010ish, where it listed couples in Final Fantasy games. And Cloud/Tifa were on those pages, along with Zidane/Garnet and Squall/Rinoa and a bunch of others. But no Cloud/Aerith. Everyone declared it over. So the goalposts just got moved. And for years it was repeated ad nauseum that "Cloud/Tifa need to kiss, or get married, or have biological children, or Square needs to hold a press conference and tell us." Despite MOST couples in the franchise not having any of those things either and others being semantics (they raise adopted children). Because Cloud and Tifa have always been the couple held to impossible standards.

And now he we fucking are. To be fair, Remake was sort of a 'reboot,' so I conceded deep down that it was always possible to go any direction the writers wanted it to go. And I know in Part 3, Cloud is going to have a couple of dream sequences with Aerith that are undoubtedly going to be misconstrued by shippers.

Let us hope the HA highwind scene isn't "optional." But I suppose if that happens the new talking point will be that he was somehow thinking of Aerith the entire time.

 

[faefolk]

I'm with @Maidenofwar that one! Even though he's kinda bothered bc he keeps getting dragged around by Aerith, he clearly does like spending time with her. I don't like the notion that Cloud is always annoyed by Aerith, and it doesn't even need to have anything to do with ship stuff. Barret also pulls all his strings, and we're never bringing this up to say he doesn't like to be around him.

Cloud is pure soft on the inside. I'd say his annoyance is much more of a facade. He was like that too when he was a child after all, lol.

I clarified that being annoyed by someone hanging off you doesn't equate to disliking being around them.

Also re Barret - I'm far less likely to be annoyed by a straightforward person who likes antagonising me (literally married one of those) than I am to be annoyed by someone who is always physically in my space. Again - I have really close friends who are touchy-feely. I don't love it but I love them.

Like.. Cloud is clearly not an overly physically affectionate person. Everything in the compilation supports this.

 

[Yumelinh]

I clarified that being annoyed by someone hanging off you doesn't equate to disliking being around them.

Also re Barret - I'm far less likely to be annoyed by a straightforward person who likes antagonising me (literally married one of those) than I am to be annoyed by someone who is always physically in my space. Again - I have really close friends who are touchy-feely. I don't love it but I love them.

Like.. Cloud is clearly not an overly physically affectionate person. Everything in the compilation supports this.

It wasn't for your post in specific. I did see your clarification. I just don't like when people try to paint Cloud as being super annoyed with Aerith because I feel it cheapens the relationships he has with the people he's close with and are clearly super important to him. And yes, he IS bothered by Aerith's mannerisms sometimes, but he clearly does like being around her, so I wouldn't say he's annoyed per se, but rather that they are just two very different people that still enjoy each other's company in the end.

 

[Yumelinh]

Oh don't worry. I have been a part of this fandom for 15 years. I am fully aware that the goalposts just get moved every time.

I still remember those Ultimania's coming out in 2010ish, where it listed couples in Final Fantasy games. And Cloud/Tifa were on those pages, along with Zidane/Garnet and Squall/Rinoa and a bunch of others. But no Cloud/Aerith. Everyone declared it over. So the goalposts just got moved. And for years it was repeated ad nauseum that "Cloud/Tifa need to kiss, or get married, or have biological children, or Square needs to hold a press conference and tell us." Despite MOST couples in the franchise not having any of those things either and others being semantics (they raise adopted children). Because Cloud and Tifa have always been the couple held to impossible standards.

And now he we fucking are. To be fair, Remake was sort of a 'reboot,' so I conceded deep down that it was always possible to go any direction the writers wanted it to go. And I know in Part 3, Cloud is going to have a couple of dream sequences with Aerith that are undoubtedly going to be misconstrued by shippers.

Let us hope the HA highwind scene isn't "optional." But I suppose if that happens the new talking point will be that he was somehow thinking of Aerith the entire time.

True, lol! There's no better way to describe the LTD than with 'the goalposts keep moving every time.'
Every once in a while, I remember that specific Ultimania you mentioned, and it all feels kind of silly that we're still debating it and calling it 'ambiguous' or that SE 'never confirmed anything' when, well... they clearly did. This led me to thinking that, in a sort of way, they're just making clear in the game, and for the wider audience, what they already confirmed a long time ago. I guess I was just not expecting them to be this direct tho

I have the same opinion about Remake as you did, that they could go any direction they wanted, and I made peace with it as long as they give us a definitive answer. Since it seems that Aerith didn't get Great Gospel in Rebirth, that leads me to believe she will be around in part 3, and with that, the LTD stuff will probably be back again.

But part 3 is where Cloti should shine! That's where their most important scenes will happen. So hopefully, if done well (and being non-optional), we will get our definitive answer for real this time

 

[faefolk]

It wasn't for your post in specific. I did see your clarification. I just don't like when people try to paint Cloud as being super annoyed with Aerith because I feel it cheapens the relationships he has with the people he's close with and are clearly super important to him. And yes, he IS bothered by Aerith's mannerisms sometimes, but he clearly does like being around her, so I wouldn't say he's annoyed per se, but rather that they are just two very different people that still enjoy each other's company in the end.

Fair, I may be projecting. I love my friends a lot, a lot but fr it's genuinely annoying when they don't respect that I don't enjoy affection. I feel bad for feeling like that because I know it's all love to them but it feels low key disrespectful when people keep touching you when they know you don't enjoy that whole thing. So I've always read Cloud as similar.

That scene that was put on YouTube the other day from Rebirth with Aerith saying they went on a date and latching on to his arm and him like... Holding his arm away from his body and looking low key distressed resonated with me on a deeply personal level