SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[loozzer]

Anyway, did Tifa lie or not?

why are you asking me that like it's some sort of gotcha LOL. yea she did. it doesn't change cloud's feelings at all. even if she told cloud "hey cloud, aerith actually doesn't care about zack at all and actually really really loves you". it's clear from the date that cloud is, like I said, at the very very least got a crush on her. that's clear before cloud even asks about zack.

 

[faefolk]

Anyway, did Tifa lie or not?

Tifa 'lies' to avoid the topic of Zack which is extremely unsurprising given Zack is connected to her biggest trauma.. Cloud retold the Nibelheim incident with himself acting out Zacks part in it and recently attacked Tifa over his mentally instability surrounding this incident.

 

[Nal]

This is gonna be long, apologizes in advance! I also repeat myself a lot and ask tons of questions. Be warned!

Let’s just get this out of the way…

Spoiler

Tifa straight up lied about having a conversation with Aerith about Zack. Watch Tifa’s date, then watch Aerith’s right after. The flashback is the same for both. Tifa says that Cloud knew Zack and Aerith gasps Tifa continues that they were friends five years ago, Aerith only says “What?” In response to the last sentence for both.

Right before Aerith responds to Cloud’s inquiry, Aerith unprompted talks about how she saw a lot of Zack in Cloud. She then says it’s okay that he is not Zack because she wants to be with him and she’s also trying hard to find him. When Cloud finally stumbles out the Zack question, Aerith’s response leads the player/watcher to conclude that not only is she over Zack (if she wasn’t already by what she JUST said) by saying the conversation she had with Tifa about him “Wasn’t important” but also reveals the fact that it actually happened.

On Tifa’s date after the flashback, Tifa just says “Not yet” in response to something we KNOW happened because why is it the same flashback? Why didn’t the development team/writers have a separate cutscene where Aerith says something else? But her saying a sad “Not yet” allows Cloud to assume that it’s a “touchy” subject and Aerith must not be over Zack. He says as much afterwards. He defaults to this because Cloud at his core is a very insecure man. Tifa says “It’s a bit more complicated than that” (complicated for who Tifa? You or Cloud?) and before Cloud can question it, Tifa changes the subject and starts talking about how she can’t remember them ever being that close… that’s… weird. Especially because this is likely the HA version of the date scene. They’ve had tons of moments we can presume: the play, the imposter thing and especially the “almost k***” people talk about.

Why did Tifa lie about having this conversation? If you believe it’s because Tifa doesn’t want to presume Aerith’s feelings or share something private… I’ll give you that but I just have one question: why didn’t she… just say that? Why did she just act as if she never had the conversation with Aerith in the first place after the flashback plays which tells the player/watched she did.

Let me also add that Cloud is clearly jealous that Aerith might have feelings for another guy (Zack). This was referenced in the Ultimania Plus when Toriyama stays that Cloud having “complex feelings” about Aerith going a date with another guy (at Evergreen Park) will enhance the depth of the scene. He asks Tifa to confirm if whether it’s true Aerith still loves Zack. Why? Because he trusts her. By the time of this date, they had already (we can assume) reconciled the whole issue where he believes she’s not real. So he trusts her to tell him the truth. We don’t know what promoted Cloud to be jealous of Zack on both their dates because that hasn’t leaked yet/game hasn’t come out yet so we’ll have to find out. Still CLOUD is bringing up the possible romantic feelings Aerith has for another man in front of Tifa while they are on a very romantic date leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Also instead of Tifa of saying “it’s not my place”, “ask her yourself” she denies the conversation happens ENTIRELY meanwhile on Aerith’s date she doesn’t deny it and proves she has feelings for Cloud even before he asked.

We don’t know the full context, but Marlene also says that Aerith “really really likes Cloud” and Aerith was “really happy” he came to save her to Zack… her ex. Unfortunately I do not know when that takes place.

You can try and bring up the Sleeping Forest date where apparently they friendzone each other but the English version of the scene that leaked proves that whatever is in the presumably original Japanese script that’s going around is untrue or at least extremely biased by purposefully misinterpreting the nuance in the Japanese language. You can also bring up the affinity system, which is only for the GS and does not affect the main story as stated by the development team.

Lastly, Cloud would have no need to ask Tifa about Aerith’s romantic feelings for another man that has presumably been dead for five years unless he was jealous. Why does he care anyway? Seems strange on a pro Tifa playthrough.

Also to add, Tifa’s doubtfulness is very confusing. Cloud being pretty unreceptive when she is making small talk after he concludes that Aerith still loves her ex leaves a LOT to be desired if you are a fan of the ship. She says before the ending of the scene that she “misread” things between them despite having a high affection with her so it’s pretty clear that the player has favored her to get this date. Her doubtfulness leaves well… doubt that she is the actual date option.
Just because this date ended in a kiss doesn’t mean what lead up to it is earned. Cloud only kissed Tifa because Aerith was no longer a romantic option anymore and it took Tifa lying about a conversation that clearly happened for him to come to that conclusion.

To note: Cloud is slightly mean to Aerith on what we see in the beginning of their date but if you are watching under the assumption he is jealous of Zack for whatever happens before this date his grumpiness makes total sense. He believes Aerith likes another guy even after all the time they’ve spent together.

Why are you making FF7 sound like a Crappy Highschool drama?

 

[Stiggie]

Why are you making FF7 sound like a Crappy Highschool drama?

I swear, if the actual game feels like that then I am done.

 

[kate-kane]

Anyway, did Tifa lie or not?

Didn't Aerith lie to Cloud on her date, too?

 

[Ryushikaze]

Anyway, did Tifa lie or not?

Everyone lies. The plot is predicated on everyone lying about something, usually to themselves and/or by omission, because the truth is complicated. Cloud lied to everyone but especially Tifa about the time of the Nibelheim incident. Tifa lied to cloud by omission by not confronting him about the contradictions in his story because he knows too much of what actually happened to have not been there. Aerith is lying- mostly to herself- about being over Zack. Barret lies about it not being instant coffee and you know what that joke is literally older than I am why would I expect anyone to get it.

 

[Legend45]

Didn't Aerith lie to Cloud on her date, too?

Yup they probably don't wanna mention him for narrative reasons.

 

[Nal]

I swear, if the actual game feels like that then I am done.

Spoiler

On Aerith's date, Cloud straight up asks if she talked to Tifa and she lies to him. Because they are both lying since they know something is wrong with Cloud. You know the major plot of the game. This claim that Cloud only kissed Aerith because he thought she wasn't an option wtf am i reading XD.

 

[Nal]

Spoiler

On Aerith's date, Cloud straight up asks if she talked to Tifa and she lies to him. Because they are both lying since they know something is wrong with Cloud. You know the major plot of the game. This claim that Cloud only kissed Tifa because he thought she wasn't an option wtf am i reading XD.

 

[Rfcloud88]

Hey heard there is a low affection date for Aerith as well? Is it any different from the higher one?

 

[loozzer]

Hey heard there is a low affection date for Aerith as well? Is it any different from the higher one?

From what i've seen no one has confirmed that there is a LA version. Some people say there is, some say there isn't. I think one of the initial 4chan leakers who was right about a lot of stuff said that the only difference is

Spoiler

on the LA version of the date they just normally hold hands and don't interlace their fingers.

but i have not personally seen anything so can't confirm. i believe any videos/text descriptions of the dates so far are all for HA except for yuffie and the cid/vicent/cait sith date

 

[r_monk]

Ah, I see there's a new influx of reductive takes on what I felt were complex and layered character motivations and actions. OH WELL.

Regardless, I see game journalists are loading up their ammo even before the game is out, lol. Highly entertaining. siliconera article on the LTD

 

[r_monk]

Everyone lies. The plot is predicated on everyone lying about something, usually to themselves and/or by omission, because the truth is complicated. Cloud lied to everyone but especially Tifa about the time of the Nibelheim incident. Tifa lied to cloud by omission by not confronting him about the contradictions in his story because he knows too much of what actually happened to have not been there. Aerith is lying- mostly to herself- about being over Zack. Barret lies about it not being instant coffee and you know what that joke is literally older than I am why would I expect anyone to get it.

Thank you!! This is LITERALLY what makes the story so compelling.

 

[andover]

Didn't Aerith lie to Cloud on her date, too?

She didn’t. Before he asks, She says it’s okay he isn’t like Zack because she wants to be with Cloud. When Cloud does ask, Aerith says “I think so? But not about anything important” which means whatever the conversation she had with Tifa about Zack was just that… not important. Her saying this means she DID have that conversation with Tifa which Tifa denies in her date.

 

[loozzer]

I'm hearing from someone i know that

Spoiler

the friendzone line in the clerith dream date before her death isn't even the worst part of the date? cause i think that line can be avoided if you get aerith's GS date. they are talking about something that's not good for clerith that happens during the dream date before the friendzone line.

They are a really big cloti fan so take that with a grain of salt. I haven't seen it with my own eyes and it's nothing that i've heard of before. I don't think they would lie to me though, their take just might not be completely objective.

 

[Nal]

Spoiler

Thank you!! This is LITERALLY what makes the story so compelling.

I just can't believe that post quite literally missed the entire point of Cloud's character arc to say he was jealous before he then kisses Tifa. Its like the whole rest of the game is being forgotten. The last thing cloud would be thinking of is, well that Zack guy who is missing is my rival against Aerith. Not the whole why don't I remember this guy everyone else does from the same memory I have. This take just butchers the characters, and they wrote a whole essay on it?

Edited to hide spoiler - Mod

 

[andover]

Spoiler

Why are you making FF7 sound like a Crappy Highschool drama?

Everyone lies. The plot is predicated on everyone lying about something, usually to themselves and/or by omission, because the truth is complicated. Cloud lied to everyone but especially Tifa about the time of the Nibelheim incident. Tifa lied to cloud by omission by not confronting him about the contradictions in his story because he knows too much of what actually happened to have not been there. Aerith is lying- mostly to herself- about being over Zack. Barret lies about it not being instant coffee and you know what that joke is literally older than I am why would I expect anyone to get it.

Cloud has memory issues and insecurity from a crappy childhood not the same thing. Aerith says in her date she is over Zack by saying she wants to be with Cloud and she is trying to find him. She never lies about being over him, that’s just you believing she does because you are ignoring what she’s said since the original game. As for Barret that’s personal opinion, haha but seriously please watch the full scene because clearly you have not.

Edited post to include spoiler tags - Mod

 

[r_monk]

I just can't believe that post quite literally missed the entire point of Cloud's character arc to say he was jealous before he then kisses Tifa. Its like the whole rest of the game is being forgotten. The last thing cloud would be thinking of is, well that Zack guy who is missing is my rival against Aerith. Not the whole why don't I remember this guy everyone else does from the same memory I have. This take just butchers the characters, and they wrote a whole essay on it?

People will think whatever they want to think. It's a shame that such richly drawn characters are reduced to paper dolls in service of whatever pairing someone favors. Before all these new developments, I actually enjoyed how complicated and fucked up and tragic the dynamics between both couples were—more than anything, it was additive because it just felt more true to life than the typical depiction of "romance" in the typical FF game. The miscommunication, the hedging, the confusion, the withholding amongst these characters is what makes them and this game so timeless!!!

Sorry, I actually could write an essay on this topic alone but, uh, in favor lol.

 

[Nal]

Oh i have, and then some, and Aerith's arc is She is conflicted over her feelings for Zack and if she actually likes Cloud in that way. But this is just the gold saucer, so you can see in the rest of the game.

 

[r_monk]

I just can't believe that post quite literally missed the entire point of Cloud's character arc to say he was jealous before he then kisses Tifa. Its like the whole rest of the game is being forgotten. The last thing cloud would be thinking of is, well that Zack guy who is missing is my rival against Aerith. Not the whole why don't I remember this guy everyone else does from the same memory I have. This take just butchers the characters, and they wrote a whole essay on it?

Yeah, that just isn't in character for Cloud. He does not strike me as someone who'd be petty and act on said pettiness to the point of leading someone else on. Like.... wut.

 

[loozzer]

Spoiler

I just can't believe that post quite literally missed the entire point of Cloud's character arc to say he was jealous before he then kisses Tifa. Its like the whole rest of the game is being forgotten. The last thing cloud would be thinking of is, well that Zack guy who is missing is my rival against Aerith. Not the whole why don't I remember this guy everyone else does from the same memory I have. This take just butchers the characters, and they wrote a whole essay on it?

The cloud kisses her because he's jealous idea is like the worst take ever LOL. so he either

1. didn't really like aerith that much cause damn he moved on quick after getting jealous. or
2. he's actually a truly horrible person who is leading tifa on and using her after learning that he can't be with the one person he truly wants.

let's accept the idea that he felt jealousy in that moment and decided to kiss tifa anyways despite loving aerith. well that just makes him either an awful person or a very fickle one. I doubt that's what the devs were going for in that scene

Edited to hide Rebirth spoilers - Mod.

 

[Nal]

The cloud kisses her because he's jealous idea is like the worst take ever LOL. so he either

1. didn't really like aerith that much cause damn he moved on quick after getting jealous. or
2. he's actually a truly horrible person who is leading tifa on and using her after learning that he can't be with the one person he truly wants.

let's accept the idea that he felt jealousy in that moment and decided to kiss tifa anyways despite loving aerith. well that just makes him either an awful person or a very fickle one. I doubt that's what the devs were going for in that scene

like that whole take just makes Cloud the main character look like the worst possible person Why does this person even want Aerith to like that type of guy?

 

[andover]

Spoiler

I just can't believe that post quite literally missed the entire point of Cloud's character arc to say he was jealous before he then kisses Tifa. It’s like the whole rest of the game is being forgotten. The last thing cloud would be thinking of is, well that Zack guy who is missing is my rival against Aerith. Not the whole why don't I remember this guy everyone else does from the same memory I have. This take just butchers the characters, and they wrote a whole essay on it?

Then question why Cloud had to ask on a date with Tifa about whether she talked to Aerith to which Tifa says “Not Yet” which is a complete lie. From that lie, Cloud then believes it’s a “touchy subject” for Aerith. He trusts Tifa that she had not spoken to Aerith which again… is a lie. He then immediately assumes from that as well that Aerith must still have feelings for Zack. Cloud had to have asked Tifa at some point to talk to Aerith about Zack or Aerith’s feelings for Zack before the date because why is that the subject of conversation on a romantic high affection date before Tifa changes the subject? Tifa is believing she’s misreading their relationship, she feels like this because she’s insecure likely because of Cloud and Aerith’s relationship. Makes no sense if, as the player, you actively pursued Tifa. Cloud only ends up doing what he does at the end of the scene because he believes Aerith loves Zack and Tifa lied about having the conversation entirely for him to come to that conclusion.

Edited to hide Rebirth Spoilers - Mod.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Can someone confirm if it's true Aerith has a date in nearly every town and does Tifa (and Yuffie ???) also have many.

Edited to get rid of minor spoiler detail - Mod.

 

[r_monk]

Then question why Cloud had to ask on a date with Tifa about whether she talked to Aerith to which Tifa says “Not Yet” which is a complete lie. From that lie, Cloud then believes it’s a “touchy subject” for Aerith. He trusts Tifa that she had not spoken to Aerith which again… is a lie. He then immediately assumes from that as well that Aerith must still have feelings for Zack. Cloud had to have asked Tifa at some point to talk to Aerith about Zack or Aerith’s feelings for Zack before the date because why is that the subject of conversation on a romantic high affection date before Tifa changes the subject? Tifa is believing she’s misreading their relationship, she feels like this because she’s insecure likely because of Cloud and Aerith’s relationship. Makes no sense if, as the player, you actively pursued Tifa. Cloud only ends up doing what he does at the end of the scene because he believes Aerith loves Zack and Tifa lied about having the conversation entirely for him to come to that conclusion.

Keep in mind that Aerith and Tifa are very close friends at this point? We don't even know to what extent they've confided in each other with regards to the topic of Zack/Cloud mental instability and confusion. It is a touchy subject, but Cloud doesn't even know just how touchy. Maybe Tifa and Aerith prefer not to betray each other's confidence because they're still processing and unpacking the situation themselves, both together and individually, and are emotionally intelligent enough to know that divulging such information to Cloud right now is a very bad idea given his mental state? Good lord.