SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[andover]

Spoiler

Cloud believes its a touchy subject

Spoiler

because of an earlier scene where Aerith straight up says she might still have feelings for Zack

. Tifa and Aerith are not rivals in remake the developers clearly said that by focusing on their friendship. On both Aerith and Tifas date he asks has the other person spoken to each other about Zack and they both say not yet. As them lying here is not a bad thing since Cloud should obviously know who Zack is, thats the point of the story dude. And the way you say that Cloud can only kiss Tifa because he believes Aerith loves Zack is, quite frankly, a disgusting mindset. What kind of character do you think Cloud is for him to then just start kissing the next girl if he thinks he can't get with another?

Then the devs doing all this makes no sense then. Why even have Cloud talk about Aerith at all on a date with Tifa? And then having him conclude from Tifa denying the conversation happened that Aerith still loves her ex. Tifa has to change the conversation, it’s not like Cloud does, in fact he STARTS the conversation asking Tifa if she spoke to Aerith. What does that tell you? Cloud only moves on to Tifa IF and only IF he believes that Aerith loves Zack but Tifa LIED about having the conversation entirely so from that Cloud wrongly concludes Aerith still loves Zack because it’s a “touchy subject”. It looks bad especially when you see the same cutscene play for Aerith’s date. She could have just said it wasn’t her place or to talk to her himself. But she didn’t she lied instead. Because this is a love triangle. It’s not much more simple that that.

Edited to include spoiler tags - Mod

 

[Nal]

I also don't understand what that has to do with all being fair in love and war??

And yeah, Tifa is questioning her own memory, questioning who Cloud is... SIGH.

Its crazy that sounds like the plot to a famous game XD

 

[Nal]

Spoiler

Then the devs doing all this makes no sense then. Why even have Cloud talk about Aerith at all on a date with Tifa? And then having him conclude from Tifa denying the conversation happened that Aerith still loves her ex. Tifa has to change the conversation, it’s not like Cloud does, in fact he STARTS the conversation asking Tifa if she spoke to Aerith. What does that tell you? Cloud only moves on to Tifa IF and only IF he believes that Aerith loves Zack but Tifa LIED about having the conversation entirely so from that Cloud wrongly concludes Aerith still loves Zack because it’s a “touchy subject”. It looks bad especially when you see the same cutscene play for Aerith’s date. She could have just said it wasn’t her place or to talk to her himself. But she didn’t she lied instead. Because this is a love triangle. It’s not much more simple that that.

No it tells you Cloud is wondering who the hell Zack is because his memory is messed up? and Tifa who is close with Aerith since they are roommates, He figures hey maybe you she talked to him about it. How can Cloud move on from a relationship hes not even in? Again the LYING is not a bad thing this a guy who has headaches and faints whenever he hears the wrong thing?

Edited to include spoiler tags - Mod

 

[r_monk]

Then the devs doing all this makes no sense then. Why even have Cloud talk about Aerith at all on a date with Tifa? And then having him conclude from Tifa denying the conversation happened that Aerith still loves her ex. Tifa has to change the conversation, it’s not like Cloud does, in fact he STARTS the conversation asking Tifa if she spoke to Aerith. What does that tell you? Cloud only moves on to Tifa IF and only IF he believes that Aerith loves Zack but Tifa LIED about having the conversation entirely so from that Cloud wrongly concludes Aerith still loves Zack because it’s a “touchy subject”. It looks bad especially when you see the same cutscene play for Aerith’s date. She could have just said it wasn’t her place or to talk to her himself. But she didn’t she lied instead. Because this is a love triangle. It’s not much more simple that that.

I'm glad that you're admitting that to you, all character motivations and actions revolve around a love triangle, and that viewing the narrative through this lens is simplistic, rather than complicated.

 

[andover]

Spoiler

So maybe it's time to ask yourself if the devs really wrote the story that you think you're watching unfold or if you've misinterpreted a lot of things. Like do you really think they've written cloud to be a guy with zero integrity?

Then why did they write him asking about Aerith while on a date with Tifa with him concluding Aerith must still love her ex? Tifa says “it’s complicated” but Cloud doesn’t respond before Tifa changes the subject. They could’ve had Cloud start the conversation about their journey or childhood like Tifa does after Cloud is led to believe through Tifa’s lie about the conversation not happening yet with Aerith that she still loves Zack instead they have Tifa talk about their journey and childhood to change the subject. Seems to me like you’re purposefully missing the point of how disrespectful it already is for Cloud to be asking about another woman on a romantic date that ends how it does. Seems to me integrity was never in the room. At least in the original date, Tifa brought up Aerith. Here they made Cloud do it.

Edited to include spoiler tags - Mod

 

[r_monk]

My god. This is where I tap out for real lol.

 

[BebeJ]

Am I just imaging things?

Spoiler: GS Dates

I just watched both the leaks for GS dates, on Tifa's date, the Main Theme of FFVII plays. On Aerith's date, it is a different arrangement

 

[Nal]

No it tells you Cloud is wondering who the hell Zack is because his memory is messed up? and Tifa who is close with Aerith since they are roommates, He figures hey maybe you she talked to him about it. How can Cloud move on from a relationship hes not even in? Again the LYING is not a bad thing this a guy who has headaches and faints whenever he hears the wrong thing?

Then the devs doing all this makes no sense then. Why even have Cloud talk about Aerith at all on a date with Tifa? And then having him conclude from Tifa denying the conversation happened that Aerith still loves her ex. Tifa has to change the conversation, it’s not like Cloud does, in fact he STARTS the conversation asking Tifa if she spoke to Aerith. What does that tell you? Cloud only moves on to Tifa IF and only IF he believes that Aerith loves Zack but Tifa LIED about having the conversation entirely so from that Cloud wrongly concludes Aerith still loves Zack because it’s a “touchy subject”. It looks bad especially when you see the same cutscene play for Aerith’s date. She could have just said it wasn’t her place or to talk to her himself. But she didn’t she lied instead. Because this is a love triangle. It’s not much more simple that that.

Then why did they write him asking about Aerith while on a date with Tifa with him concluding Aerith must still love her ex? Tifa says “it’s complicated” but Cloud doesn’t respond before Tifa changes the subject. They could’ve had Cloud start the conversation about their journey or childhood like Tifa does after Cloud is led to believe through Tifa’s lie about the conversation not happening yet with Aerith that she still loves Zack instead they have Tifa talk about their journey and childhood to change the subject. Seems to me like you’re purposefully missing the point of how disrespectful it already is for Cloud to be asking about another woman on a romantic date that ends how it does. Seems to me integrity was never in the room. At least in the original date, Tifa brought up Aerith. Here they made Cloud do it.

Then why did they write him asking about Aerith while on a date with Tifa with him concluding Aerith must still love her ex? Tifa says “it’s complicated” but Cloud doesn’t respond before Tifa changes the subject. They could’ve had Cloud start the conversation about their journey or childhood like Tifa does after Cloud is led to believe through Tifa’s lie about the conversation not happening yet with Aerith that she still loves Zack instead they have Tifa talk about their journey and childhood to change the subject. Seems to me like you’re purposefully missing the point of how disrespectful it already is for Cloud to be asking about another woman on a romantic date that ends how it does. Seems to me integrity was never in the room. At least in the original date, Tifa brought up Aerith. Here they made Cloud do it.

What major event do you think has just happened for why cloud would be asking this. Its to give the date plot relevance aswell. You also leave out the rest of the date scene with Tifa How is it disrepectful to talk about another girl who he is Not in a relationship with in a date when there chat isnt romantic at that point anyway?

 

[andover]

No it tells you Cloud is wondering who the hell Zack is because his memory is messed up? and Tifa who is close with Aerith since they are roommates, He figures hey maybe you she talked to him about it. How can Cloud move on from a relationship hes not even in? Again the LYING is not a bad thing this a guy who has headaches and faints whenever he hears the wrong thing?

Never said that Cloud and Aerith were together. But seriously, why would he even be asking about Aerith on a date with a woman that is not Aerith that we the players/watchers know has feelings for him? He asks because he’s jealous. There is proof of this jealousy in Ultimania Plus. This is a fan translation by ShinraArch but I’ll post the text here:

Q: Cloud suffers a headache right when Aerith utters what appears to be Zack's name. Is this an instance where something is causing him to protect his false memories?

Toriyama: This is an occasion where Cloud has an excessive reaction to a name he doesn't want to acknowledge or hear. The date sequence in Evergreen Park was a memorable scene in the original Final Fantasy VII, and I think it may add a layer of depth to contemplate Cloud's mixed feelings as he imagines Aerith once going on a date with someone else in that very same place.

So clearly the foundation of the jealousy was already there. We don’t know what happens in Rebirth yet but clearly Cloud is jealous otherwise he has NO reason to ask.

 

[Nal]

Am I just imaging things?

Spoiler: GS Dates

I just watched both the leaks for GS dates, on Tifa's date, the Main Theme of FFVII plays. On Aerith's date, it is a different arrangement

Am I just imaging things?

Spoiler: GS Dates

I just watched both the leaks for GS dates, on Tifa's date, the Main Theme of FFVII plays. On Aerith's date, it is a different arrangement

Your Imagining things both dates are a new version of words drowned by fireworks with the characters themes in them

 

[Nal]

Never said that Cloud and Aerith were together. But seriously, why would he even be asking about Aerith on a date with a woman that is not Aerith that we the players/watchers know has feelings for him? He asks because he’s jealous. There is proof of this jealousy in Ultimania Plus. This is a fan translation by ShinraArch but I’ll post the text here:

Q: Cloud suffers a headache right when Aerith utters what appears to be Zack's name. Is this an instance where something is causing him to protect his false memories?

Toriyama: This is an occasion where Cloud has an excessive reaction to a name he doesn't want to acknowledge or hear. The date sequence in Evergreen Park was a memorable scene in the original Final Fantasy VII, and I think it may add a layer of depth to contemplate Cloud's mixed feelings as he imagines Aerith once going on a date with someone else in that very same place.

So clearly the foundation of the jealousy was already there. We don’t know what happens in Rebirth yet but clearly Cloud is jealous otherwise he has NO reason to ask.

He has reason to ask because Aerith has a very obvious reaction to finding out about Zack from his parents but whatever the game will come out and you will see

 

[Rfcloud88]

Spoiler

Then the devs doing all this makes no sense then. Why even have Cloud talk about Aerith at all on a date with Tifa? And then having him conclude from Tifa denying the conversation happened that Aerith still loves her ex. Tifa has to change the conversation, it’s not like Cloud does, in fact he STARTS the conversation asking Tifa if she spoke to Aerith. What does that tell you? Cloud only moves on to Tifa IF and only IF he believes that Aerith loves Zack but Tifa LIED about having the conversation entirely so from that Cloud wrongly concludes Aerith still loves Zack because it’s a “touchy subject”. It looks bad especially when you see the same cutscene play for Aerith’s date. She could have just said it wasn’t her place or to talk to her himself. But she didn’t she lied instead. Because this is a love triangle. It’s not much more simple that that.

He wouldn’t move on to kiss the next person quick. That’s so stupid The date scenes show that he’s not himself. Which is why both girls lie to cloud. That makes Cloud sound like a playboy. You clearly don’t have any experience in relationships in real life do you? I’m done

Edited to include spoiler tags - Mod

 

[andover]

No not r

I'm glad that you're admitting that to you, all character motivations and actions revolve around a love triangle, and that viewing the narrative through this lens is simplistic, rather than complicated.

No actually. I’m just analyzing what I’ve seen. I never said the LTD is the only thing I care about, you’re assuming this is the case instead of answering what I am saying so you are attacking my motivation for this conversation instead of the points I’m making which leads me to believe they are valid since you aren’t responding to them. People should be able to talk about the LTD without having their motivations attacked because they say something you have no response to other than personal opinion.

 

[loozzer]

Spoiler

Then why did they write him asking about Aerith while on a date with Tifa with him concluding Aerith must still love her ex? Tifa says “it’s complicated” but Cloud doesn’t respond before Tifa changes the subject. They could’ve had Cloud start the conversation about their journey or childhood like Tifa does after Cloud is led to believe through Tifa’s lie about the conversation not happening yet with Aerith that she still loves Zack instead they have Tifa talk about their journey and childhood to change the subject. Seems to me like you’re purposefully missing the point of how disrespectful it already is for Cloud to be asking about another woman on a romantic date that ends how it does. Seems to me integrity was never in the room. At least in the original date, Tifa brought up Aerith. Here they made Cloud do it.

wat lol?? he knows that aerith used to have feelings for zack. he also knows that aerith doesn't have any info about zack's whereabouts for the last 5 years. is it not common sense that cloud would then ask tifa "hey tifa, did you tell your good friend aerith that I actually do remember seeing her boyfriend zack 5 years ago?" this seems like a pretty important thing to tell a girl who's boyfriend has been missing for 5 years?? how is this in any way indicative of cloud's feelings for aerith? he just wants to know if homegirl knows that zack was alive at least 5 years ago.

you are acting under the assumption that the reason cloud brought up aerith was to see if she's still interested in zack. the devs would not write cloud to be a disrespectful jackass who, on a date with tifa, tries to figure out if aerith is interested in him.

Edited to include spoiler tag - Mod.

 

[Nal]

Spoiler

My god. This is where I tap out for real lol

He wouldn’t move on to kiss the next person quick. That’s so stupid The date scenes show that he’s not himself. Which is why both girls lie to cloud. That makes Cloud sound like a playboy. You clearly don’t have any experience in relationships in real life do you?

I just cant comprehend someone actually saying this character kissed this person and immediately confessed that Tifa's feelings for him was mutual with the most confirming words possible, and then kisses her? ONLY because she was his next best thing

Edited to include spoiler tags - Mod

 

[andover]

He wouldn’t move on to kiss the next person quick. That’s so stupid The date scenes show that he’s not himself. Which is why both girls lie to cloud. That makes Cloud sound like a playboy. You clearly don’t have any experience in relationships in real life do you? I’m done

I absolutely do not agree with the playboy thing if this is what the full context is. It makes Cloud look awful. But the development team/writers wrote it so what else would they have people who play/watch believe if it’s analyzed?

 

[Nal]

wat lol?? he knows that aerith used to have feelings for zack. he also knows that aerith doesn't have any info about zack's whereabouts for the last 5 years. is it not common sense that cloud would then ask tifa "hey tifa, did you tell your good friend aerith that I actually do remember seeing her boyfriend zack 5 years ago?" this seems like a pretty important thing to tell a girl who's boyfriend has been missing for 5 years?? how is this in any way indicative of cloud's feelings for aerith? he just wants to know if homegirl knows that zack was alive at least 5 years ago.

you are acting under the assumption that the reason cloud brought up aerith was to see if she's still interested in zack. the devs would not write cloud to be a disrespectful jackass who, on a date with tifa, tries to figure out if aerith is interested in him.

you put it into better words than me

 

[r_monk]

No not r

No actually. I’m just analyzing what I’ve seen. I never said the LTD is the only thing I care about, you’re assuming this is the case instead of answering what I am saying so you are attacking my motivation for this conversation instead of the points I’m making which leads me to believe they are valid since you aren’t responding to them. People should be able to talk about the LTD without having their motivations attacked because they say something you have no response to other than personal opinion.

No, I just know a lost cause when I see one and I'm not in the habit of driving myself crazy by attempting to sway the minds of others when they've already been set like industrial-grade concrete. I don't particularly enjoy circular arguments or bad faith reads, whether that's with a difficult lover at 3am or a stranger on a forum.

 

[Nal]

Spoiler

I absolutely do not agree with the playboy thing if this is what the full context is. It makes Cloud look awful. But the development team/writers wrote it so what else would they have people who play/watch believe if it’s analyzed?

How is Cloud a playboy if hes not currently in a relationship with either yet in only one date confirms Tifas feelings and His are shared and initiates a kiss?

what do you think the writers want to get across here seriously?

Edited to include spoiler tags - Mod

 

[andover]

Spoiler

wat lol?? he knows that aerith used to have feelings for zack. he also knows that aerith doesn't have any info about zack's whereabouts for the last 5 years. is it not common sense that cloud would then ask tifa "hey tifa, did you tell your good friend aerith that I actually do remember seeing her boyfriend zack 5 years ago?" this seems like a pretty important thing to tell a girl who's boyfriend has been missing for 5 years?? how is this in any way indicative of cloud's feelings for aerith? he just wants to know if homegirl knows that zack was alive at least 5 years ago.

you are acting under the assumption that the reason cloud brought up aerith was to see if she's still interested in zack. the devs would not write cloud to be a disrespectful jackass who, on a date with tifa, tries to figure out if aerith is interested in him.

Cloud literally says after she lies and says she hasn’t spoken to her that it’s a “touchy subject” and “She must still have feelings for Zack” which proves that’s why he asked Tifa had they spoken before. That was what he wanted to find out. If Aerith still has feelings for Zack. The development team/writers could have had Cloud say anything else but he says that? She must still have feelings for Zack? Judging from Cloud even asking Tifa in the first place which is disrespectful on a date with her he could have asked her to talk to Aerith about that exact thing. Who knows though since that hasn’t leaked/game hasn’t come out yet. There’s just no reason for him to ask and come to the conclusion she still loves Zack if that’s not what he wanted to find out.

Edited to include spoiler tag - Mod

 

[null]

Does this sound like an accurate summary so far?

• Cloud is disrespectful with no integrity and using Tifa because his first choice was unavailable
• Tifa manipulated Cloud into a kiss using lies and treachery

If so, I guess they were made for each other anyway?

 

[Nal]

Cloud literally says after she lies and says she hasn’t spoken to her that it’s a “touchy subject” and “She must still have feelings for Zack” which proves that’s why he asked Tifa had they spoken before. That was what he wanted to find out. If Aerith still has feelings for Zack. The development team/writers could have had Cloud say anything else but he says that? She must still have feelings for Zack? Judging from Cloud even asking Tifa in the first place which is disrespectful on a date with her he could have asked her to talk to Aerith about that exact thing. Who knows though since that hasn’t leaked/game hasn’t come out yet. There’s just no reason for him to ask and come to the conclusion she still loves Zack if that’s not what he wanted to find out

Cloud literally says after she lies and says she hasn’t spoken to her that it’s a “touchy subject” and “She must still have feelings for Zack” which proves that’s why he asked Tifa had they spoken before. That was what he wanted to find out. If Aerith still has feelings for Zack. The development team/writers could have had Cloud say anything else but he says that? She must still have feelings for Zack? Judging from Cloud even asking Tifa in the first place which is disrespectful on a date with her he could have asked her to talk to Aerith about that exact thing. Who knows though since that hasn’t leaked/game hasn’t come out yet. There’s just no reason for him to ask and come to the conclusion she still loves Zack if that’s not what he wanted to find out.

The word touchy subject coming from a person leads one to assume things.

 

[loozzer]

Cloud literally says after she lies and says she hasn’t spoken to her that it’s a “touchy subject” and “She must still have feelings for Zack” which proves that’s why he asked Tifa had they spoken before. That was what he wanted to find out. If Aerith still has feelings for Zack. The development team/writers could have had Cloud say anything else but he says that? She must still have feelings for Zack? Judging from Cloud even asking Tifa in the first place which is disrespectful on a date with her he could have asked her to talk to Aerith about that exact thing. Who knows though since that hasn’t leaked/game hasn’t come out yet. There’s just no reason for him to ask and come to the conclusion she still loves Zack if that’s not what he wanted to find out.

how does "touchy subject" and "she must still have feelings for zack" indicate that that's what he wanted to find out? that's what he did conclude. but that does not mean that's what he wanted to find out. there's a difference.

edit: like i can ask "hey did karen go to the supermarket?" and my friend say "nope karen and david went on a date". i find out that karen likes david, but what i wanted to find out was if karen went to the supermarket

 

[Nal]

The word touchy subject coming from a person leads one to assume things.

Then Tifa says "its a lot more complicated than that because it is Aeriths stuff with Zack is very complicated she still has feelings and is trying to move on but struggling and Tifa and Aerith Both Know that Cloud Should Know who Zack is. They dont want to talk about it with Him because Cloud has many things wrong with him ITS THE STORY OF FF7

 

[strippedpink]

This is painful to read lmao, Nal and company you are stronger soldiers than I...