SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Rin]

The side quest was positive and nice, and wholesome as a whole, but Cloud still seemed a bit put out to me, somewhat bothered by Tifa saying/ thinking that, and Tifa going guess we still aren't that close that late in the game had me a bit wait what, but I agree at least it ended on a positive note, and of course I just love the quest as a whole because cats

Idk if you've ever watched the OC but it was very reminiscent of a talk Seth/Summer have where she asks if she was ever mean to him, he says no bc that would've required her to speak to him or for anyone to speak to him bc before his adopted brother came into his life he was an outcast in their town and used sarcasm and his intelligence to shield himself from the loneliness of being excluded. But like Cloud, a lot of it was self-inflicted as he began to choose to be alone out of spite and believing he was better than the rest of them, aside from Summer, the girl he'd liked since he was a little boy.

And this talk happens after Summer/Seth become an official couple and have been together for a while. They're in love, but there's still things to unpack/talk about. So, I quite liked that CT scene in Rebirth cause it reminded me of that.

Also, it was an important callback to ToTP too. Tifa always tried to get Cloud to hang out with them. She never excluded him but he never showed up, so of course she believed he preferred his own company--anyone would. It's either you believe that or believe that he hates you lol which I think Tifa did kind of think he must not like her and the other kids as well, only to be surprised by him inviting her out to the water tower in the end.

 

[r_monk]

Spoiler

One example is later in Nibelheim, Tifa is talking about her memories, and she says something about Cloud having fun/being happy, and Cloud is all like you think I was happy!?, and Tifa was whoops guess we still don't really know each other that well, or something. I vaguely remember something about Cloud thinking frogs weren't going to be all that fun, though I might be remembering that wrong. There might be others.

Uh, I don't know that I would call that snapping. I would say that that was an example of them misunderstanding each other when they were extremely young and then Tifa stating the obvious. And Cloud follows up saying he was a pain in the ass and that there's still time to get to know each other? They end up in a rather sweet place.

 

[Rin]

The side quest was positive and nice, and wholesome as a whole, but Cloud still seemed a bit put out to me, somewhat bothered by Tifa saying/ thinking that, and Tifa going guess we still aren't that close that late in the game had me a bit wait what, but I agree at least it ended on a positive note, and of course I just love the quest as a whole because cats

I still haven't done a lot of these quests myself yet these are just my remembering from friend's stream but I'm really looking forward to the cats. I'm saved just before the second boss in Gongaga reactor. Again I do see things differently as Aerith and Tifa seemed a bit put out by Cloud calling Zack a loser, saying to forget him, and started to say that man is dead, that ended on tragic note, but to me Cloud came across a bit salty at first over Zack getting called charming etc, if he was just curious he had a funny way of showing it. I don't think it's too much of a stretch because of the Ultimania saying Cloud might have complicated feelings at the thought of Aerith being on a date with another.

They seemed downright pissed but I think it was also another test on Clouds memory as Aerith plainly says, "Guess that proves he doesn't know Zack after all." And Tifa immediately rushes to comfort her.

Idk Clouds motivation for saying what he says about Zack, whether it's jealousy or just trying to be a caring friend in general, but when he walks away and looks back his eyes are tracking Tifa specifically and he says, "Another time" to himself bc he wants to speak with her alone so it seems kind of random to make him jealous of Zack and then immediately focus on a different woman in the same scene, so I'm curious to see the script when the ultimania releases.

 

[faefolk]

Guuuuys. I just saw a twitter post comparing Aerith and Clouds scene in the church to Tidus and Yunas final goodbye in FFX and I hate it ahaha. Whyyyyy? It's not the same! Tidus and Yuna were very openly in love and had kissed and everything wth?! Why they gotta do my homies dirty like that?

 

[Rin]

Guuuuys. I just saw a twitter post comparing Aerith and Clouds scene in the church to Tidus and Yunas final goodbye in FFX and I hate it ahaha. Whyyyyy? It's not the same! Tidus and Yuna were very openly in love and had kissed and everything wth?! Why they gotta do my homies dirty like that?

I see TiYu compared to CA a lot and it confuses me greatly because they're nothing alike. TiYu is my fave FF couple and I always feel like I'm missing something when I see them compared lol but then again I saw some CA shippers compare the CT kiss to Yuna and Seymour, so I can't be shocked by anything now.

 

[r_monk]

IMO Cloud was the opposite of put out during the cat side quest with Tifa. If anything, he was being his typical overprotective self, even going so far as to almost correct the woman on Maru's original name before Tifa stops him.

But that aside, what struck me overall about Rebirth is that we actually don't see Cloud "snapping" at anyone, not even Barret or Yuffie, until he comes under Sephiroth's influence. I was struck by how emotionally intelligent and gentle he was with most of the cast, that the parts where he wasn't, really stood out to me. Those moments were few and far between, and it was mostly him either being dense or acting like a wet blanket. And I hate to say it, but those instances of "not fun" Cloud happened more with Aerith (to the point where I wanted to smack him, actually lol). With Tifa, I noticed that, at the very worst, he overcompensates or overcorrects himself.

FYI, I am historically not the biggest Cloud fan (both Tifa and Aerith have been more compelling to me, and I only really started liking him in OG post-LS sequence), so I was really pleasantly surprised at the way the writers characterized him in Rebirth.

 

[faefolk]

I see TiYu compared to CA a lot and it confuses me greatly because they're nothing alike. TiYu is my fave FF couple and I always feel like I'm missing something when I see them compared lol but then again I saw some CA shippers compare the CT kiss to Yuna and Seymour, so I can't be shocked by anything now.

Me too! Yuna was my first cosplay I ever did as a teenager haha I loved her so much. And man I weep even now when I watch that scene which is probably why I hate the comparison so much. My and my SIL who are both grown ass adults and parents watched that scene not long ago and were sniffling like wee bebes. I can't see that comparison at all. Cloud is nothing like Tidus, Aerith is nothing like Yuna and their dynamics are completely different. I'm so weirdly offended by this comparison lol.

Also whaaaaaat? You cannot be serious?! Please tell me you're joking?!!!!! That would be like if Tifa was forced to make out with Sephiroth. Ewww. I hate it. Why?! D:

 

[Rin]

And I hate to say it, but those instances of "not fun" Cloud happened more with Aerith (to the point where I wanted to smack him, actually lol). With Tifa, I noticed that he overcompensates or overcorrects himself.

YES LOL I also want to smack him!! I'm like "What the hell is wrong with you?!" when they interact sometimes. Thankfully the Costa del Sol date was a one-off, but my god. Even when she comes to find him at the GS and is like "Let's hangout!" He's like ".... what about the others?" as if he doesn't want to hang out. I'm like ?!?! WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? And I'm feeling especially passionate about it right now because I just saw a tweet that shows a video of all three girls coming to his room in the hotel and the only one he's happy/eager to spend time with and doesn't need any coaxing for is Tifa.

It makes it difficult to place CA and CT on equal footing. In fact, most of the time I'm yelling at my TV saying "ZACK WOULD NEVER SAY THAT" ... which I'm fairly sure is the point of these interactions but still lmao.

 

[Rin]

Me too! Yuna was my first cosplay I ever did as a teenager haha I loved her so much. And man I weep even now when I watch that scene which is probably why I hate the comparison so much. My and my SIL who are both grown ass adults and parents watched that scene not long ago and were sniffling like wee bebes. I can't see that comparison at all. Cloud is nothing like Tidus, Aerith is nothing like Yuna and their dynamics are completely different. I'm so weirdly offended by this comparison lol.

Also whaaaaaat? You cannot be serious?! Please tell me you're joking?!!!!! That would be like if Tifa was forced to make out with Sephiroth. Ewww. I hate it. Why?! D:

I wish I was joking.... Sadly, no. Thankfully, they got made fun of and clowned on cause wtf kind of comparison is that LOL

Also, FFX was my first ever FF and I can recite Yuna's entire ending speech lmaooo I've played the game so many times. Ah, I love it. And yeah, the characters and their dynamic is nothing alike so I never know what they're talking about when they make the comparison.

 

[Hix]

Guuuuys. I just saw a twitter post comparing Aerith and Clouds scene in the church to Tidus and Yunas final goodbye in FFX and I hate it ahaha.

You don't remember that bit Yuna said "PLAYERNAME I like you but I'm not sure I like like you" and Tidus was like "You're weird". Definitely seeing the similarities. Also that part where people said Tidus and Yuna don't look like a couple.

In all seriousness, the FFX comparisons are intentional because, sadly, the latest Clerith narrative is that the CT kiss is similar, somehow, to Yuna and Seymour kissing. Again highlighting how the ship needs to ignore the events of the game (looking only at select individual scenes with no context) and constantly attack CT to not sink entirely.

 

[r_monk]

YES LOL I also want to smack him!! I'm like "What the hell is wrong with you?!" when they interact sometimes. Thankfully the Costa del Sol date was a one-off, but my god. Even when she comes to find him at the GS and is like "Let's hangout!" He's like ".... what about the others?" as if he doesn't want to hang out. I'm like ?!?! WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? And I'm feeling especially passionate about it right now because I just saw a tweet that shows a video of all three girls coming to his room in the hotel and the only one he's happy/eager to spend time with and doesn't need any coaxing for is Tifa.

It makes it difficult to place CA and CT on equal footing. In fact, most of the time I'm yelling at my TV saying "ZACK WOULD NEVER SAY THAT" ... which I'm fairly sure is the point of these interactions but still lmao.

Yeah, like Jesus Christ, man, you don't have to flirt back or whatever, but lighten up and have some fucking fun lol.

The contrast is painfully stark! I felt like the initial playfulness between him and Aerith from Remake was mostly nowhere to be found? Or at least greatly diminished?

And yeah, mfer is an absolute simp for Tifa. She says jump (asks, in fact, quite politely, no pressure, really), and he says how high lol. Good lord.

 

[faefolk]

I wish I was joking.... Sadly, no. Thankfully, they got made fun of and clowned on cause wtf kind of comparison is that LOL

Also, FFX was my first ever FF and I can recite Yuna's entire ending speech lmaooo I've played the game so many times. Ah, I love it. And yeah, the characters and their dynamic is nothing alike so I never know what they're talking about when they make the comparison.

Good. That is atrocious. What a horrible comparison.

Aw man I just watched the wedding scene and God Seymour sucks (but also PLEASE REMAKE FFX NEXT) and there is no comparison. Also rewatched Tidus and Yunas kiss scene and chefs kiss stunning. The music, the visual... perfection. They're so precious. Man, I need to replay it.

It wasn't my first ever but omg do you remember how unreal the graphics in the cutscenes were for back then? Me and my brothers were so hyped.

 

[faefolk]

You don't remember that bit Yuna said "PLAYERNAME I like you but I'm not sure I like like you" and Tidus was like "You're weird". Definitely seeing the similarities. Also that part where people said Tidus and Yuna don't look like a couple.

In all seriousness, the FFX comparisons are intentional because, sadly, the latest Clerith narrative is that the CT kiss is similar, somehow, to Yuna and Seymour kissing. Again highlighting how the ship needs to ignore the events of the game (looking only at select individual scenes with no context) and constantly attack CT to not sink entirely.

Totally the same thing.

My god though in FFX when she runs to hug him at the end and falls through his body it's just the most tragic thing in the whole world. Ugh.

That's so dumb. So dumb. I don't even have anything much else to add because it just doesn't even make sense and is not even remotely similar.

 

[Rin]

Yeah, like Jesus Christ, man, you don't have to flirt back or whatever, but lighten up and have some fucking fun lol.

The contrast is painfully stark! I felt like the initial playfulness between him and Aerith from Remake was mostly nowhere to be found? Or at least greatly diminished?

And yeah, mfer is an absolute simp for Tifa. She says jump (asks, in fact, quite politely, no pressure, really), and he says how high lol. Good lord.

Right? The only time I felt the playfulness was in the cosmo canyon side quest with the pics, but it wasn't really all that flirty. It was super cute though and I'm glad they got a pic together.

 

[r_monk]

Right? The only time I felt the playfulness was in the cosmo canyon side quest with the pics, but it wasn't really all that flirty. It was super cute though and I'm glad they got a pic together.

I skipped that side quest because I was so eager to push the plot along. Gonna have to do that one during my replay!

 

[Rin]

I skipped that side quest because I was so eager to push the plot along. Gonna have to do that one during my replay!

It's worth it!! So cute. Honestly, I don't ship CA at all but to me they are a great definition of "best friends" where there's a line that gets kinda blurry w/o it needing romantic connotations. Sometimes, you just really love your friends but you aren't IN LOVE with them, you know? For that reason, CA was my fave dynamic in Remake. Less so in Rebirth because.... idk what the hell is going on lmao it almost feels like Cloud is too anxious to be too friendly with her in Tifa's presence just in case Tifa gets the wrong idea but in reality, Tifa would probably prefer him to be nice to Aerith cause Tifa likes it when Cloud is nice to others.

 

[r_monk]

It's worth it!! So cute. Honestly, I don't ship CA at all but to me they are a great definition of "best friends" where there's a line that gets kinda blurry w/o it needing romantic connotations. Sometimes, you just really love your friends but you aren't IN LOVE with them, you know? For that reason, CA was my fave dynamic in Remake. Less so in Rebirth because.... idk what the hell is going on lmao it almost feels like Cloud is too anxious to be too friendly with her in Tifa's presence just in case Tifa gets the wrong idea but in reality, Tifa would probably prefer him to be nice to Aerith cause Tifa likes it when Cloud is nice to others.

I will always be a CT at heart, but mostly I really enjoy seeing what each character brings out in the other! Which, yeah, I really enjoyed and thought the moments between him and Aerith in Remake were sweet and cute. And like you said, it's like there's a block in Rebirth? I don't see him opening up to her in the same way... and that isn't even taking into account the myriad ways he opens up to Tifa.

Anyway, whatever. I just felt for Aerith. Dude was just not receptive or fun, at least not until the dream date where it seemed like he was going along with it for the most part, despite the general confusion.

 

[Rin]

Anyway, whatever. I just felt for Aerith. Dude was just not receptive or fun, at least not until the dream date where it seemed like he was going along with it for the most part, despite the general confusion.

He was pissing me off in the dream date to start but he got better as it went along. But when the shop owner gives her the flower pin and he's mad about it cause he knows the meaning I was like "This is so painful, I can't do this." Thankfully, he lightened up but then the NPCs just kept driving it home I heard in Spanish the photographer says they have no chemistry. I was like OK OK WE GET IT

Actually, now that I think about it... that's the issue for me. They have no chemistry anymore. In the OG, they had a lot but it's almost nonexistent now which makes it difficult for me to read their interactions as romantic. Even when other NPCs are fully leaning into the idea of them as a couple, it's undercut by the reality of Clouds overall disinterest (a la Costa del Sol)

 

[Empyrea]

FYI, I am historically not the biggest Cloud fan (both Tifa and Aerith have been more compelling to me, historically, and I only really started liking him in OG post-LS sequence), so I was really pleasantly surprised at the way the writers characterized him in Rebirth.

Yoooo! A kindred soul!
What you said here is basically me when I first played FF7. I looped back to not caring for him in AC (which I also saw when I was 14) and started warming up to him again in his appearances in later works in the Compilation (namely CC).

He was pissing me off in the dream date to start but he got better as it went along. But when the shop owner gives her the flower pin and he's mad about it cause he knows the meaning I was like "This is so painful, I can't do this." Thankfully, he lightened up but then the NPCs just kept driving it home I heard in Spanish the photographer says they have no chemistry. I was like OK OK WE GET IT

Cloud's treatment of Aerith is a pretty stark contrast in comparison to Zack's but...much as I wanna get mad at him on Aerith's behalf... I just can't xD I relate with him in disliking being forced to hang out, especially with someone who's bound to not give me the space I need to catch up and breathe, but also being unable to just say no. Basically, his reaction is normal to me xP

That said, the photographer saying they have no chemistry is...overkill. And kinda untrue from a meta perspective


Re: All the FFX comparisons... Can the CAs please find another ship for comparison? Tidus and Yuna --also my personal fave FF OTP-- don't deserve this! And as you all have said, they're not comparable anyway!

 

[Rin]

Yoooo! A kindred soul!
What you said here is basically me when I first played FF7. I looped back to not caring for him in AC (which I also saw when I was 14) and started warming up to him again in his appearances in later works in the Compilation (namely CC).


Cloud's treatment of Aerith is a pretty stark contrast in comparison to Zack's but...much as I wanna get mad at him on Aerith's behalf... I just can't xD I relate with him in disliking being forced to hang out, especially with someone who's bound to not give me the space I need to catch up and breathe, but also being unable to just say no. Basically, his reaction is normal to me xP

That said, the photographer saying they have no chemistry is...overkill. And kinda untrue from a meta perspective


Re: All the FFX comparisons... Can the CAs please find another ship for comparison? Tidus and Yuna --also my personal fave FF OTP-- don't deserve this! And as you all have said, they're not comparable anyway!

I'll take the English line "you look like you're at a funeral" over the no-chemistry line even tho I agree that they have minimal chemistry in the retrilogy compared to the OG. They have good chemistry as friends, but not love interests if that makes sense. Like they're toeing a line but never directly crossing it, so it doesn't read as romantic chemistry the way it used to back in 1997.

Also, as an introvert I totally get Clouds responses to her and back in my teenage days/early 20s I'd probably act similarly or say something akin to him. But now that I'm older and I've learned how to deal with people or excuse myself from situations I don't want to be in, I just see his behaviour and shake my head lmao but I don't hold it against him, I just wanna smack some sense into him. Like go make memories with your friend, dude!! You're gonna regret it if you don't.... quite literally.

 

[Graymouse]

I'll take the English line "you look like you're at a funeral" over the no-chemistry line even tho I agree that they have minimal chemistry in the retrilogy compared to the OG. They have good chemistry as friends, but not love interests if that makes sense. Like they're toeing a line but never directly crossing it, so it doesn't read as romantic chemistry the way it used to back in 1997.

Isn't this kinda what the CloTi wanted for years? A clear cut line drawn into the sand. C/A = platonic friends. C/T = Lovers?

We often times have to remember that when we get what we want it doesn't necessarily make you happy.

I think the Devs are finally coming to terms with this stupid LTD and that it has lasted for way too long and they finally have the balls to put an end to it and leave no doubt with who Cloud's end game is.

(did not mean to come off a hard ass. I'm sorry )

 

[Rin]

Isn't this kinda what the CloTi wanted for years? A clear cut line drawn into the sand. C/A = platonic friends. C/T = Lovers?

We often times have to remember that when we get what we want it doesn't necessarily make you happy.

I think the Devs are finally coming to terms with this stupid LTD and that it has lasted for way too long and they finally have the balls to put an end to it and leave no doubt with who Cloud's end game is.

(did not mean to come off a hard ass. I'm sorry )

Oh, no I'm not complaining lol it's just hard to reconcile with after 27 years. I quite like that it's clear cut and plain to see!

 

[Graymouse]

Oh, no I'm not complaining lol it's just hard to reconcile with after 27 years. I quite like that it's clear cut and plain to see!

yeah, i know I was venting. Sorry!

 

[Empyrea]

Isn't this kinda what the CloTi wanted for years? A clear cut line drawn into the sand. C/A = platonic friends. C/T = Lovers?

We often times have to remember that when we get what we want it doesn't necessarily make you happy.

I think the Devs are finally coming to terms with this stupid LTD and that it has lasted for way too long and they finally have the balls to put an end to it and leave no doubt with who Cloud's end game is.

(did not mean to come off a hard ass. I'm sorry )

Personally I like that it's plain as day. I just have some niggles with how they did it overall, none of which are anywhere near being dealbreakers.

 

[Hix]

Oh, no I'm not complaining lol it's just hard to reconcile with after 27 years. I quite like that it's clear cut and plain to see!

I think it's important to remember what the devs said about this project;




Less ambiguity but in exchange a far greater connection to Cloud, because he has a very defined personality with clear preferences and tastes. It doesn't only apply to the LTD of course, but the devs have very clearly spelled out that Cloud loves Tifa. This fact has always been integral to Cloud's character and the overall story, but, now that it's being spelled out, it allows the devs to show much more without worrying about mixed signals.

I don't think the execution of this vision has been flawless, by any means. That said, I'm not sure it was ever going to be possible to make every scene 100% free of ambiguity or multiple interpretations. I think things will be easier for them in part three and, when looking back on the trilogy once complete, certain scenes that could be interpreted as romantic will be much more easily viewed as platonic.

On another topic, I love Nojima's words here "Cloud's fiery flame", because that's a perfect descriptor for the kind of sheer passion we see in Rebirth when Cloud kisses Tifa.