Empyrea
Pro Adventurer
I feel bad for those guys. Imagine having to read some of those takes.... I don't think I'd last an hour even if I was paid for it (unless it's a really high amount, I guess).
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I’d be able to do the job no problem. My issue would be in the urge to respond back. Be fired immediately.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
I'm not sure what you're talking about because Aerith and Cloud also have a high five in that scene? Which I saw as to show Cloud and Aerith don't feel awkward about giving each other high fives anymore. As in Ultimania in Remake such scenes were meant to show becoming closer or bridging the gap.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I think what they mean is that it longer has romantic connotations, which is I suppose what some people claimed about the high five they had in Remake.
Or rather, that the fist bump between Tifa and Cloud is not evidence of friendzoning otherwise Aerith would have been friendzoned in Remake.
null
Mr. Thou
- AKA
- null
Anyone emotionally invested in a ship to the point that they’ll argue in bad faith is an extremist.
Hellenic
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Hellenic
If this is actually a thing then i'm majorly disappointed.
There were sooo many moments where I wondered if the reason Tifa did stuff was because I got Tifas affection highest, quite annoying. I'd love a list with ALL the changes.
I would like to know the scene where Cloud only asked Tifa if she were tired during the fight is because I dated Tifa or it will happen nonetheless
Gym Leader Devil
True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
- AKA
- So many names
They frequently won't even let Wolverine smoke in shit these days and he's a gut 'em and move on anti-hero when he's playing for keeps. Cid is just gonna have to sit his ass down and chew his goddamn nicotine gum
My question is, how's he gonna light the fuse on his dynamite now? Don't you dare take Cids dynamite limit away, SE, we got our eye on you.On topic and speaking of needing a cigarette, I'm really looking forward to Under the Highwind 2.0 next game. I have a probably delirious hope that they restore the old idea of Cloud/Tifa exiting the onboard chocobo stables the next morning. If it's preceded by Tifa's hand groping around in the hay and finding her tank top or skirt to drag into the room first, even better. We got an onscreen kiss, time to shoot for the moon.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I read that it happens nonetheless but don't quote me on that lol.
Hix
Pro Adventurer
I don't get it, why aren't more people talking about this? Like, anywhere?
Aerith still loves Zack, straight from the horse's mouth and it's canon. This whole scene is such a game changer in the LTD that I don't even know where to begin. The kiss is, rightfully, seen as the most defining and enduring romantic moment so far (and for good reason, as it's our first unambiguous, unquestionable sign that Cloud loves one, and only one, girl) but this right here is a close second in my book - and it's wild we get both in Rebirth, corresponding to the part of OG where CA is ostensibly teased the most.
Nobody is talking about it, so here's my thoughts with apologies;
In English
"So, this Zack guy, you still like him?" "Maybe. He's never given me a reason not to..."
Now, in Japanese
"そいつのこと、まだ好きなのか？" "そうだね。嫌いになる理由、ないもの"
English translation of the Japanese
"Do you still love that guy?" "Yes, I do. There's no reason to not to."
Now, I want to say that despite how overt it seems in Japanese compared to English, I don't think there's a tremendously large difference between either translation if any at all. "Maybe" in this context is functionally a "Yes" as, if it was a "No" then why not say that? Zack has been gone and out of Aerith's life for 5 years - it's hinted that she's aware that he's dead both in Crisis Core and in Remake but even if she doesn't, he's just not there - and the person she's talking to is Cloud who she's interested in romantically (more on this later). It makes no sense to potentially sabotage this, or introduce awkwardness into their dynamic, or hang on to Zack unless...it's true. This scene, undeniably, is Aerith telling Cloud she still loves Zack.
Why does this scene matter? Well for a start, after all these years of us Zeriths being quoted ad nausea "a girl's gotta look forward and not back", it's clear that Aerith's eyes never looked away from Zack, not for a moment. I always thought it strange, you know? This girl's love was never so fickle to change from day to day or even year to year, how could one suggest such when she spent over 4 years writing some 89 unrequited love letters - almost two per month - only to suddenly and instantly give up on him a few short months before the events currently unfolding? Further, in my own limited knowledge of breakups, I certainly wouldn't consider Aerith's wearing of the promised reunion pink and gifted ribbon, or selling flowers as they arranged, to be hallmarks of someone who wanted to move on.
There's also the fact that this effectively debunks any lingering arguments by Cleriths that Aerith genuinely believes Zack is/was unfaithful or a ladies man. This has long been thrown out, such as by Cissnei herself in Crisis Core, but we all know fans of CA avoid that game like the plague.
Perhaps most importantly of all, the revelation both to Cloud and to us compels both to view Aerith's actions in the rest of the trilogy in light of it. Instead of being this super clingy and forward girl who ignores her friend's long held feelings for Cloud and pursues him even against his own desires, Aerith is a girl desperately attempting to recapture the magic of her lost love with Zack.
This is beautifully bookended in her final moments when she tells Cloud "I like you, but there's liking and there's liking". The whole scene takes place in the backdrop of a recreation of her Sector 5 date with Zack, followed by a few final moments in the Church - the special place where Zack fell into her life, where she comforted him over his loss of Angeal, where they built the wagon together and much more. Here there is the moment of clarity, while in Gongaga she can say outright "I still like Zack romantically" with no doubts, now by contrast she says of Cloud "I like Cloud, but I don't know if I do so romantically", this is why she is disappointed regardless of his responses until that point, he's great and they have such an amazing bond but...he's not the one her heart yearns for.
One could say we didn't have so much for Zerith in Rebirth, but the build up is absolutely there for part 3. Had SE made Aerith and Zack meet again in Rebirth, it would have ended all doubt there and then - can anyone now doubt she would shun him after this? - but the devs clearly aren't ready for the payoff. It's coming, it'll be a tough wait, but there's more than enough here in this one scene alone to prove it. Watch this space!
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GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Nah, she’ll just sit with her head on Cloud’s shoulder. Duh. /sThey frequently won't even let Wolverine smoke in shit these days and he's a gut 'em and move on anti-hero when he's playing for keeps. Cid is just gonna have to sit his ass down and chew his goddamn nicotine gum
On topic and speaking of needing a cigarette, I'm really looking forward to Under the Highwind 2.0 next game. I have a probably delirious hope that they restore the old idea of Cloud/Tifa exiting the onboard chocobo stables the next morning. If it's preceded by Tifa's hand groping around in the hay and finding her tank top or skirt to drag into the room first, even better. We got an onscreen kiss, time to shoot for the moon.
AncientGrimoire
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Grim
I’m kind of seeing this sort of parallel, with the overall emotion and feeling of Aerith and Cloud’s Gold Saucer date. To anyone who’s seen this scene from the film and knows the context behind it may also similarly get what I’m hopefully getting at by drawing this parallel.
This is just my personal interpretation of it, but this is the emotion it evoked for me.
Aerith and Cloud’s Gold Saucer date is beautiful, gorgeously shot and animated, but there is also this air of a deep melancholy to it, and it reminded me of this scene from Half-Blood Prince.
Also of the Aragorn and Éowyn scene in Return of the King, which I’ve already mentioned before.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
So if the Ultimania comes out and the devs say “while not all of the scenes occur due to player choice, all of the feelings presented within them are all true” using that specific wording, would that kill the LTD?
Yeah, I can actually kinda see the parallel there. It fits.
Ahhh, my old enemy, Kanji.
Really, it's depressing that I've learned to read Hiragana, and yet am barely any closer to being able to actually read japanese since all the key words of the sentence are always written with F-ing Kanji.
I do recognize Suki now though so I suppose that's something.
Hellenic
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Hellenic
Pretty much this. By no means i meant to take away from the moment that Cloud and Aerith had in Remake that build up towards it, couse it was an important character moment for them at the time.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Yeah, I feel like some of these instances are people using shipping goggles to analyze every interaction. Like Cloud pushing Tifa away in the Temple of Ancients, or Aerith grabbing Cloud’s hand at the Gold Saucer and telling him he needs to lie down.
The latter is just normal thing a friend does and the former is just Cloud gradually going Full Sephiroth… but with shipping goggles everything’s a “moment” or the opposite.
Jane Fane
Rookie Adventurer
YES. This might be considered a hot take coming from a longtime CT, but I quite enjoyed the CA date. Was it a sweeping crescendo of romance, no, but it was a nice display of care and compassion. It ended with CA at their best, when they're just quiet, understanding, and most importantly, natural. Aerith is so often her worst enemy in this regard, trying to squeeze water out of stone by dragging Cloud around and forcing their interactions. Reasonable, mature, "Thanks for tonight" Aerith is best Aerith, and we didn't get nearly enough of her.
(Oh yes, hello everyone, I'm new as well. I've been a CT since 1997 and have mostly lurked on Twitter for fanart and memes since Remake was rolled out. Came here when someone linked to one of insanehobbit's masterful posts and decided to join in on the great LTD discourse happening here that doesn't seem to happen anywhere else on the internet.
)
insanehobbit
Pro Adventurer
I'm not 100% sure, but I think all the scripted events in the Corneo fight post-date happen regardless of who your date is -- your date just determines your party for the first fight. I just skimmed through someone's playthrough who got the Aerith date, and Cloud still asks Tifa if she's tired, they still all do the high fives, and Cloud still seems to gesture only at Tifa before he does the Rufus fight solo.
I meant the particular framing of Cloud + Tifa's high five (the close up and the lingering on their hands). I can see no other reason for them to do this just for the two of them vs. the Cloud/Aerith or Aerith/Tifa high five right before. They're drawing attention to it for no particular story/character reason?
One could also argue that Cloud's (optional?) reaction to Tifa's bathing suit reveal is an answer to Cloud's (optional) reaction to Aerith's red dress reveal in Remake, but I don't think I would necessarily go that far, haha.
That being said, I would not be surprised if we see what explicitly romantic "interlocking hands" looked like Under the Highwind(TM) in part 3
I meant the particular framing of Cloud + Tifa's high five (the close up and the lingering on their hands). I can see no other reason for them to do this just for the two of them vs. the Cloud/Aerith or Aerith/Tifa high five right before. They're drawing attention to it for no particular story/character reason?
One could also argue that Cloud's (optional?) reaction to Tifa's bathing suit reveal is an answer to Cloud's (optional) reaction to Aerith's red dress reveal in Remake, but I don't think I would necessarily go that far, haha.
That being said, I would not be surprised if we see what explicitly romantic "interlocking hands" looked like Under the Highwind(TM) in part 3
I still haven't watched the Aerith date tbh XD.YES. This might be considered a hot take coming from a longtime CT, but I quite enjoyed the CA date. Was it a sweeping crescendo of romance, no, but it was a nice display of care and compassion. It ended with CA at their best, when they're just quiet, understanding, and most importantly, natural. Aerith is so often her worst enemy in this regard, trying to squeeze water out of stone by dragging Cloud around and forcing their interactions. Reasonable, mature, "Thanks for tonight" Aerith is best Aerith, and we didn't get nearly enough of her.
(Oh yes, hello everyone, I'm new as well. I've been a CT since 1997 and have mostly lurked on Twitter for fanart and memes since Remake was rolled out. Came here when someone linked to one of insanehobbit's masterful posts and decided to join in on the great LTD discourse happening here that doesn't seem to happen anywhere else on the internet.
I have a prediction though about the hand holding, since I find it extremely out of character for Cloud. I'm guessing it will be implied that he's holding her hand specifically because of the whole "just give me this day/moment" concept, or whatever she says. Something about indulging her.
Since you get points with Either Aerith or Tifa depending on whose bathing suit matches your taste I assumed that both had a version of that scene where they're more "highlighted" if you will. Does only Tifa have one?I'm not 100% sure, but I think all the scripted events in the Corneo fight post-date happen regardless of who your date is -- your date just determines your party for the first fight. I just skimmed through someone's playthrough who got the Aerith date, and Cloud still asks Tifa if she's tired, they still all do the high fives, and Cloud still seems to gesture only at Tifa before he does the Rufus fight solo.
I meant the particular framing of Cloud + Tifa's high five (the close up and the lingering on their hands). I can see no other reason for them to do this just for the two of them vs. the Cloud/Aerith or Aerith/Tifa high five right before. They're drawing attention to it for no particular story/character reason?
One could also argue that Cloud's (optional?) reaction to Tifa's bathing suit reveal is an answer to Cloud's (optional) reaction to Aerith's red dress reveal in Remake, but I don't think I would necessarily go that far, haha.
That being said, I would not be surprised if we see what explicitly romantic "interlocking hands" looked like Under the Highwind(TM) in part 3
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I think one can claim he reacts to both the girls’ bathing suits. (Yes, it’s pretty obvious it’s Tifa but ‘reasonable doubt.)I'm not 100% sure, but I think all the scripted events in the Corneo fight post-date happen regardless of who your date is -- your date just determines your party for the first fight. I just skimmed through someone's playthrough who got the Aerith date, and Cloud still asks Tifa if she's tired, they still all do the high fives, and Cloud still seems to gesture only at Tifa before he does the Rufus fight solo.
I meant the particular framing of Cloud + Tifa's high five (the close up and the lingering on their hands). I can see no other reason for them to do this just for the two of them vs. the Cloud/Aerith or Aerith/Tifa high five right before. They're drawing attention to it for no particular story/character reason?
One could also argue that Cloud's (optional?) reaction to Tifa's bathing suit reveal is an answer to Cloud's (optional) reaction to Aerith's red dress reveal in Remake, but I don't think I would necessarily go that far, haha.
That being said, I would not be surprised if we see what explicitly romantic "interlocking hands" looked like Under the Highwind(TM) in part 3
Empyrea
Pro Adventurer
I mean, in most romance series and soaps I've seen throughout the years, zooming in on a couple's interlocked hands/fingers before panning out to the ceiling lights or fading to black as they get started on getting funky is a common tactic, sooo...That being said, I would not be surprised if we see what explicitly romantic "interlocking hands" looked like Under the Highwind(TM) in part 3
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Forgive me for making a crass joke but there will be no Highwind scene in Part 3. It will actually happen elsewhere, in the Italian Senate.
I’m sorry, everyone. I just couldn’t resist.
I’m sorry, everyone. I just couldn’t resist.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
It's him indulging and comforting her, definitely. He knows that Aerith wanted something romantic, however he had his own boundaries: he didn't want her to take his arm, but accepted to comfort her with that handholding. That's how I see it and that's why Aerith does it again to comfort him, because that's what he did at that time.
There was a message posted earlier today (for me
) that basically said that the LTD kills any talk about the game in itself and I agree. The LTD has had this problem of looking at scenes taken out of context to argue for one side or the other; however a story must not be analysed out of context, when we play we feel emotions and have thoughts that are what the devs want to make us feel/think (or maybe not, maybe they botched, that is possible too xD). Since REMAKE I've tried to step away from that to understand the characters and story better; personally I feel that in FFVIIR, the story is carried by the characters, which is why I enjoy analysing them, to try to understand what is shown to me, and to try to understand where the story is going. This is why I've never believed that Aerith would live, not one second - and it was the red dress that gave it to me.
Talking about the LTD is, for me, a way to gauge my anlysing skills, to see what others think and open myself to other theories. On some things I will be adamant, on others I will ponder and try to understand. Make no mistake, all these dates, we are supposed to watch them all. Because it gives us understanding on where Cloud stands with everyone, what type of relationship they have - which is great because it also allows for those characters to be developped in unique ways; I yelled when I saw Yuffie talking about Zack,, I was like "OMG this is referencing CC/R and OMG Yuffie crushed on him!!!" It's those moments too that fans love in FFVII, to see their own favourite being expanded upon like this. In this regard, perhaps the Cloti date was the least telling because we didn't learn anything new, however it was the most satisfying as it tied all their relationship for the past chapters. In contrast, I think the Aerith date explains the last chapters.