Master Bates
Do you enjoy your life?
- AKA
- Mr. Koiwai
Inb4 the LTD evolves to a Cloud-Tifa-Barret triangle.
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
Yeah, I was thinking the same during that scene. I really like how it played out
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
The Tifa garden scene is probably one of my favorite moments in the game. It almost makes me retroactively upset with the original for not exploring how the plate drop effected her. The OG was always in a bit of a rush to get to its next big set piece, I'm glad the remake could explore things a bit more.
looneymoon
they/them
- AKA
- Rishi
The "Cloud comforts Tifa" story beat actually starts on the plate, when Jessie dies. Tifa starts sobbing and Cloud let's out a little "hey..." but doesn't know what to say to her. I mention this because I was really irritated with Cloud there, but I am glad that scene came made up later to resolve that.
Tangentially related: when I was in high school, my friend burst into tears and started crying on my shoulder. Another one of my friends whispered/mouthed the words "her dog died." Me, being a complete idiot, misheard that as "her DAD died." Having little experience confronting such a serious emotion, I just sort of awkwardly patted her back and said "sorry about your dad..." Her response was "it was my dog!" and me, dumbass that I am, went "oh thank god!" She ran off to the bathroom, now upset and annoyed.
As she ran off, everyone was like, "Rishi what the fuck."
I was Cloud in that situation.
Don't be me.
Tangentially related: when I was in high school, my friend burst into tears and started crying on my shoulder. Another one of my friends whispered/mouthed the words "her dog died." Me, being a complete idiot, misheard that as "her DAD died." Having little experience confronting such a serious emotion, I just sort of awkwardly patted her back and said "sorry about your dad..." Her response was "it was my dog!" and me, dumbass that I am, went "oh thank god!" She ran off to the bathroom, now upset and annoyed.
As she ran off, everyone was like, "Rishi what the fuck."
I was Cloud in that situation.
Don't be me.
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LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
Yeah, between that one and the one of Barret punching the concrete slab, it's tough to pick between the two. Jessie and Biggs. plate scenes are up there as well.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
While I don't see it as necessarily romantic too, I disagree with the "compassionate" gesture. I think it's a highly intimate moment between two characters who aren't normally used to such closeness, who have troubles communicating especially since Cloud is super awkward with well... people. I do think it's Cloud's desire to protect her too that surfaces - as I said in the CloTi fanclub, this little scene is a bit fascinating to me because it encapsulates CloTi as a whole:
- first, Cloud tries to impress Tifa by reminding her that he's a SOLDIER
- then she does the talking and he's stunned/doesn't know really how to react to her pain
- so she takes the next step to get that shoulder she needs to cry
- and he ends up hugging her (too strongly lol), which does end the scene in a physical way
All the while following a nice narrative with great character development for Cloud (yay he can comfort too now! lol), and showing Tifa's fragility, which is something we tend to forget because she usually is like "nah it's nothing, forget about it". It also follows the early chapter where Cloud invites her to talk to him.
Also while the scene is not romantic per se, where and when it happens is romantic (they are after all in a field of those "reunion" flowers) - some have also pointed out the pan out camera to the water source nearby, thinking it may be a hint to the Lifestream scene, but ehhhhhh maybe that's just wishful thinking.
Oh wow thanks for correcting me, I had the impression from interviews that Tifa didn't exist yet! Indeed, it's absolutely fascinating to dive into those times!
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
I think that scene could go either way. For the people that really want Cloud and Tifa to be together, it can be looked as romantic. For people that don't want them to/don't care, it can just be looked at as compassionate. Either way, SE did a great job with that scene
Eerie
Fire and Blood
See, that's exactly the thing I was complaining about earlier: if you don't want to aknowledge this as a special moment that clearly has romantic subtext, you don't. Which I obviously disagree with, especially since it's Cloud we're talking about, and he's not the kind of person to go and comfort about anyone, who we are shown that he felt hopeless when he saw Tifa crying when Jessie died (and who felt powerless about it), who we are shown that he learned from Barret how he could comfort Tifa and who finally is able to share such an intimate moment with her.
It is not romantic, but it definitely has romantic subtones, just like the clerith scene is not romantic per se but has romantic subtones - except everyone is going "oh yeah it definitely has, Cloud is definitely interested" (because he protests when Aerith tells him to not fall in love with him) - and I mean why aknowledging clerith and not cloti then? Cloud is literally showned since chapter 12 that he wants to comfort Tifa, I mean at some point, you gotta aknowledge the guy's work
It is not romantic, but it definitely has romantic subtones, just like the clerith scene is not romantic per se but has romantic subtones - except everyone is going "oh yeah it definitely has, Cloud is definitely interested" (because he protests when Aerith tells him to not fall in love with him) - and I mean why aknowledging clerith and not cloti then? Cloud is literally showned since chapter 12 that he wants to comfort Tifa, I mean at some point, you gotta aknowledge the guy's work
billy22
Pro Adventurer
Uh...I agree with a lot of what you're saying. 'Subtext' is probably the better way to put it- and that is certainly there. The optional scene is more of a subtle undertone as you say. The act of comforting someone over a destroyed home isn't particularly romantic itself. Barret does that himself, in his own way.
When I said 'not much romance,' I meant something more straightforward and less subjective with the romantic content. Which the subway tumble with her was, as well as the blatant (and smooth I might add) flirting over the drink.
When I said 'not much romance,' I meant something more straightforward and less subjective with the romantic content. Which the subway tumble with her was, as well as the blatant (and smooth I might add) flirting over the drink.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
To me, both the flirting at the bar and the tumble out of the train is more unresolved sexual tension than romance though lol. But I think you can't say "Cloud is jujst being compassionate, I'd do the same" because Cloud. Is. Not. Like. Everyone. Lol. He's a kid inside who's trying to act like a grown up and trying to learn what he doesn't know. I think for it to be mentioned in the Ultimania, it shows that it is a big deal. Bigger than what people give credit for.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Ah, the LTD. Where saying you found something more platonic than romantic means you are against the pairing 
billy22
Pro Adventurer
If the ship sinks we all drownAh, the LTD. Where saying you found something more platonic than romantic means you are against the pairing
True story
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Ah, the LTD. Where saying you found something more platonic than romantic means you are against the pairing
Nah I take offense in the compassionate term
you know who’s compassionate? Tifa when she asks Cloud to not kill Johnny. And in the idea that Cloud would do this with everyone. And I don’t even see that as romantic, more like romantic subtext as I said. I just don’t like it when characters are distorted I guess. So I like to be more precise. Sorry about that
Yumelinh
Pro Adventurer
I agree that the hug isn't romantic in itself, they aren't passionately hugging each other, it's more of a comforting hug, however, as has been said here, it's the subtext that counts: it works as a build-up for the development of their relationship in a romantic way in the future. The distance between them is lessened, and Cloud is finally able to act on his desire to help, understand, and comfort Tifa in this scene.
In short: if you look at the hug on its own it's just a hug, but if you look at the big picture is two people who clearly have some tension going on getting more closer to each other.
In short: if you look at the hug on its own it's just a hug, but if you look at the big picture is two people who clearly have some tension going on getting more closer to each other.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I agree that he wouldn't do it for anyone. I just felt it served the story more than the 'ship (which is why I loved it. Used our knowledge about these characters to enhance the story). I would say the romantic tension lay more in Cloud's hesitation in hugging her than in the actual hug itself.
I interpreted him hugging her too hard as the gesture being something he needed (with regard to the stress of the day and burning of Nibelheim) as much as she did.
I interpreted him hugging her too hard as the gesture being something he needed (with regard to the stress of the day and burning of Nibelheim) as much as she did.
Enthralled
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- a dude
Honestly, if you really buy into the idea that Cloud and Tifa have "hidden feelings" then it makes sense to see them as somewhere between platonic and romantic for most of the story, that tension is what makes the pairing dramatic at all. There's a lot I could say about how the Love Triangle blinkers people's perceptions but I'll just leave it there.
It was certainly never as romantic as the Dream just because of how the story is paced for each character. The Dream being more romantic serves a story purpose, he is about to go fight the whole army to get her, the hug being so doesn't as much at this juncture because the story isn't about them (Cloud and Tifa) at this point
It was certainly never as romantic as the Dream just because of how the story is paced for each character. The Dream being more romantic serves a story purpose, he is about to go fight the whole army to get her, the hug being so doesn't as much at this juncture because the story isn't about them (Cloud and Tifa) at this point
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
I hope there's a moment in a future part where Cloud gets some catharsis on all the stress in his life. Even with the compilation there's really never a moment where he just let's it all out. Maybe the revised version of the highwind scene?
Shadowfox
You look like you need a monkey
I interpret it that way too. I think Tifa's "they took our home away from us again" is the first actual reference to the Nibelheim massacre in the Remake, isn't it?
I saw the Chpt 14 scene between Tifa & Cloud, and specifically Cloud's behaviour it, is one of the setups for when we find out about his hidden self. It's not completely romantic, but it is a very sweet, touching scene where two childhood friends try to reunite in the midst of their shared pain.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
What about the luxury hand massage? He seemed to be letting it all out then.
This topic really seems to bring out the inner Talmudic scholar in people. Personally I never had a problem with him loving them both. He (and we by extension) need to care deeply about Aerith for her death to have the necessary impact on us. The makers of the OG knew this and they were clearly exceptionally successful in their goal. It now seems to be the case in the Remake that we're going to be allowed to feel the bonds of love and affection between Aerith and all the member of Avalanche, not just Cloud. They have already done a fantastic job of developing her friendship with Tifa (or more, if you want to see it that way).
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Theozilla
Kaiju Member
Personally, I found Cloud and Tifa's Chapter 14 scenes as more romantic than Cloud and Aerith's. But no surprise, different people, different reactions.
I just don't think one can objectively claim either Chapter 14 scene is "more" romantic than the other.
Enthralled
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- a dude
I find most people who argue it is only claim it is "as romantic" and even that's with the hindsight of knowing how Cloud and Tifa end up. Learning he was comforting her like Barrett did makes it hard to claim the scene is very romantic to me. Partly romantic? Sure. But it could also be a scene between friends and it would work. The Dream scene and its dialogue is not one friends could have without immense confusion.
I guess it's a question of focus: the dream scene discusses love outright and it's not denied, while the hug is primarily about loss and comfort. That's my rationale anyway. And it fits with the slower pace of Cloud and Tifa and their manner of talking around their feelings. It has potential energy yet to be unleashed, while the Cloud and Aerith ball is bouncing around already.
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
Really? For me the Barret factoid makes it even more romantic in my view, because it makes Cloud's intention even more clear.
While for me, Aerith telling Cloud he can't fall in love with her, makes it come off as less romantic in my experience. Though I can completely understand how for others, that same line makes it more romantic for them.
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LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Since Aerith is going to die, the Clerith ball has to be set in motion hard and fast, otherwise we won't feel the terrible pain of senseless loss we experience when she's ripped away from us. The Cloti ball can be left on the back burner to cook more slowly. Sorry for the mixed metaphor.