SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Stiggie]

btw I'm not sure if matters so much but Cloud called Aerith Nakama even back in Remake but in rebirth he called Jessie - Tomodachi


I'm not an expert in japanese languange but someone told me that a Nakama is like a colleague or comrade ( part of the team ) nothing personal but tomdachi is like a close friend.

Soo cloud is not treating Aerith like a close friend?? Just comrade?? I'm not downgrading or anything negative but just curious.

Correct, Nakama is like a partner or ally, essentially a friend with a business connotation. Tomodachi is just friend.

 

[Yoru]

Just wanted to point out that Cloud reaction to Aerith death vs Tifa death is pretty sstraightforward and I don't understand how people "can't read the room"

Tifa in Nibleheim : Cloud thinks she's dead already, bro go 1 on 1 with Captain America, only fueled by rage.

Tifa in the Gongaga Reactor : Cloud now under Jenova shenanigans realize what he has done, screams at the top of his lungs (have you HEARD the VAs work?) and becomes a vegetable (like he is at the end of CC, and how did he resurface ? When Tifa found him at the station in Midgar. She's literally the reason he came back to his senses)

Aerith at the end of Rebirth : He's crying... but not really. Why do you think we see the OG scene happening at the same time ? Because in the OG Cloud doesn't cry. He's just talking over her corpse. So why do we see him cry now ? Because Sephiroth is calling him a puppet from the start of the game and Cloud doesn't want it to be true. So what is he doing here ? He's being delulu and create a memory where he's crying and Aerith is talking to him. But no, she's dead in his arms.

So again... yes he cares about Aerith, always had, always will. But Tifa is his obsession and his only goal in life.

 

[abzy1200]

Because in the OG Cloud doesn't cry

I always interpreted this scene as him tearing up but not quite crying. I mean, what else could "My eyes are burning" mean, especially in this context.

 

[abzy1200]

Cloud to even call Aerith specifically a friend (in the Japanese dub)

Okay, I hope I'm not coming off as rude here but doesn't Cloud also refer to Tifa as "nakama" in some spin-off game? So I don't know if it's fair to say Cloud calling someone his "nakama" is a friendzone.

again, sorry and thanks for writing this analysis.

 

[Yoru]

I always interpreted this scene as him tearing up but not quite crying. I mean, what else could "My eyes are burning" mean, especially in this context.

You can interpret everything you want, not blaming you for this. All i'm saying is they chose to depict him not crying in OG.

Because it's important. It's the reason he's gonna lose it at the Northern Crater. It's the reason he'll really think he's a real puppet created by Hojo. Because Sephiroth is not lying. Yes Cloud, why do you not cry when someone close to you die ? BECAUSE MY MOM SAID SO.
And that's where Tifa saves the day in the LS. When we discover Cloud was not a puppet, he's always been here, hided. How he's a teenage loving dork who cares about every one. How his love for Tifa made him move mountains, the living proof he as a real heart.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Nakama is a term for a person or group of people with whom you have a deep bond. It neither requires nor precludes friendship, romance, or even literal familial bonds. I would say the best English equivalent is the idea of a found family?

 

[Yoru]

Okay, I hope I'm not coming off as rude here but doesn't Cloud also refer to Tifa as "nakama" in some spin-off game? So I don't know if it's fair to say Cloud calling someone his "nakama" is a friendzone.

again, sorry and thanks for writing this analysis.

Don't wanna be rude myself but were you really looking ? Because there's a ton of evidence and video examples of how he's doing everything in his power to not call Tifa a "friend" or a "nakama"

He's even sad/angry whe she is the one calling him a friend

 

[abzy1200]

Don't wanna be rude myself but were you really looking ? Because there's a ton of evidence and video examples of how he's doing everything in his power to not call Tifa a "friend" or a "nakama"

He's even sad/angry whe she is the one calling him a friend

See, I don't know what it's from, and I agree with you. Cloud doesn't see Tifa as a friend, but the fact that he calls Tifa "nakama" means that, to Cloud, calling somebody "nakama" isn't a friendzone. Which is why I can't help but feel it's a little disingenuous to point fingers to the scene at the church and say "friendzoned".

 

[Yoru]

See, I don't know what it's from, and I agree with you. Cloud doesn't see Tifa as a friend, but the fact that he calls Tifa "nakama" means that, to Cloud, calling somebody "nakama" isn't a friendzone. Which is why I can't help but feel it's a little disingenuous to point fingers to the scene at the church and say "friendzoned".

I'm telling you he doesn't call her nakama... that's the point.

Nakama is comrade. Like a person in a team you trust. So again, saying that to Aerith face in the church is pretty telling. You're just the one who don't wanna see it I'm sorry. For a CloTi enjoyer you seem strangely hyper focused on Aerith my friend.

 

[GamerSkull]

See, I don't know what it's from, and I agree with you. Cloud doesn't see Tifa as a friend, but the fact that he calls Tifa "nakama" means that, to Cloud, calling somebody "nakama" isn't a friendzone. Which is why I can't help but feel it's a little disingenuous to point fingers to the scene at the church and say "friendzoned".

Hmm… I’m very suspicious now. LMAO

Anyway, I think the S5 date is a pretty subtle way to show that;

1. Aerith and Cloud like each other but perhaps it’s not a romantic like.
2. Aerith’s subconscious is still yearning for Zack.

It’s not necessarily Cloud saying “Nakama” to Aerith. It’s him saying that in the context of what is supposed to be a date, in which Aerith responds with “I see. I guess I know where we stand now.”

 

[abzy1200]

I'm telling you he doesn't call her nakama... that's the point.

I swear Cloud does call Tifa his "nakama"? I just checked it's in Dissidia 012 I think.

Nakama is comrade. Like a person in a team you trust. So again, saying that to Aerith face in the church is pretty telling. You're just the one who don't wanna see it I'm sorry. For a CloTi enjoyer you seem strangely hyper focused on Aerith my friend.

I know it seems odd, I'm just a negative person by nature. But trust me, in this short time I've been on this forum a lot of my confusion has been cleared up. I thank everyone here for it.

Hmm… I’m very suspicious now. LMAO

Okay dude I swear I'm not an undercover Clerith, I'm just like this sorry.

 

[GamerSkull]

Fair. At this point, I still think you’re worried over nothing then.

I definitely think it’s less to do with the term “nakama”, and more just the greater context of saying that during a date.

And the fact that Aerith responds with “I guess I know where we stand now. There’s a difference between liking and LIKING.”

And even if Cloud has called Tifa “nakama”, he straight up kissed her so it’s just not the same.

But I get it, you’re super anxious. But you don’t really need to be.

 

[Yoru]

Hmm… I’m very suspicious now. LMAO

Anyway, I think the S5 date is a pretty subtle way to show that;

1. Aerith and Cloud like each other but perhaps it’s not a romantic like.
2. Aerith’s subconscious is still yearning for Zack.

Nobody in the whole known universe use the phrase "Now I know where we stand" after exchanging mutual love declaration.

You say something like "I'm happy we share the same thought"

Maybe it's just me but "Standing" is quite the graphic word.

And again, there is no need to use grammar analysis when the only answers from Cloud are "..?" "We're friends" "Why are you so weird?"

 

[GamerSkull]

Nobody in the whole known universe use the phrase "Now I know where we stand" after exchanging mutual love declaration.

You say something like "I'm happy we share the same thought"

Maybe it's just me but "Standing" is quite the graphic word.

And again, there is no need to use grammar analysis when the only answers from Cloud are "..?" "We're friends" "Why are you so weird?"

Plus, Cloud truly just doesn’t act the same around her. He is very bashful when it comes to Tifa. Like when she takes his hand during the first GS date.

Whereas, he just seems like he’s almost avoiding doing something similar to Aerith.

 

[abzy1200]

I definitely think it’s less to do with the term “nakama”, and more just the greater context of saying that during a date.

Yeah I think so too. Whatever it was, it definitely wasn't a confession.

 

[LNK]

I ask because you seem to be spiraling on this subject in a similar matter to anxiety spirals my wife and some other people I have known with anxiety have fallen into.

Can I dm you about this? I promise I won't barrage you haha. It relates to my gf having anxiety. I'd appreciate some input

 

[GamerSkull]

It's really unreal, only in this fan base, we still question who the main character love after kissing one and only one other character.
The devs went out of their way to have that kiss specifically in the game where Aerith is still alive to shutdown all the "what if" and yet here we are.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

Cloud could literally start making babies with Tifa and there’d still be “Okay, but who does Cloud love?” discussions.

 

[cgnVirtue]

I swear Cloud does call Tifa his "nakama"? I just checked it's in Dissidia 012 I think.


I know it seems odd, I'm just a negative person by nature. But trust me, in this short time I've been on this forum a lot of my confusion has been cleared up. I thank everyone here for it.


Okay dude I swear I'm not an undercover Clerith, I'm just like this sorry.

Okay so I’m not that well versed in FFVII lore so I’m pretty far from an expert on all this. But I really feel like considering Dissidia and other spin off titles makes things complicated. It seems like the intended way to digest the lore is from FFVII OG and other mainline titles, including books and other media (like movies) published or distributed by SE, and then the Remakes. Plus, spin off titles, more often than not, aren’t supposed to move major plot points or character arcs. So I’d take what’s said in Dissidia, Kingdom Hearts, and other things like that with a grain of salt.
I’ve never played Dissidia or Kingdom Hearts either and I’m just making assumptions, so I guess also take what I say with a grain of salt lol.

 

[Yoru]

Okay so I’m not that well versed in FFVII lore so I’m pretty far from an expert on all this. But I really feel like considering Dissidia and other spin off titles makes things complicated. It seems like the intended way to digest the lore is from FFVII OG and other mainline titles, including books and other media (like movies) published or distributed by SE, and then the Remakes. Plus, spin off titles, more often than not, aren’t supposed to move major plot points or character arcs. So I’d take what’s said in Dissidia, Kingdom Hearts, and other things like that with a grain of salt.
I’ve never played Dissidia or Kingdom Hearts either and I’m just making assumptions, so I guess also take what I say with a grain of salt lol.

No you're totally right.

Dissidia is not even written by the same people. People who never worked on FF7 by the way.

 

[abzy1200]

Okay so I’m not that well versed in FFVII lore so I’m pretty far from an expert on all this. But I really feel like considering Dissidia and other spin off titles makes things complicated. It seems like the intended way to digest the lore is from FFVII OG and other mainline titles, including books and other media (like movies) published or distributed by SE, and then the Remakes. Plus, spin off titles, more often than not, aren’t supposed to move major plot points or character arcs. So I’d take what’s said in Dissidia, Kingdom Hearts, and other things like that with a grain of salt.
I’ve never played Dissidia or Kingdom Hearts either and I’m just making assumptions, so I guess also take what I say with a grain of salt lol.

Oh yeah I've never played dissidia either.

and of course, what happens in Dissidia doesn't trump actual ff7, I just felt like it was something that should be accounted for.

Dissidia is not even written by the same people. People who never worked on FF7 by the way.

Really? guess I was worried over nothing then.

 

[LNK]

Aerith at the end of Rebirth : He's crying... but not really. Why do you think we see the OG scene happening at the same time ? Because in the OG Cloud doesn't cry. He's just talking over her corpse. So why do we see him cry now ? Because Sephiroth is calling him a puppet from the start of the game and Cloud doesn't want it to be true. So what is he doing here ? He's being delulu and create a memory where he's crying and Aerith is talking to him. But no, she's dead in his arms.

To be fair, I don't think Cloud knows she's dead. He actually thinks he saved her.

 

[GamerSkull]

Okay so I’m not that well versed in FFVII lore so I’m pretty far from an expert on all this. But I really feel like considering Dissidia and other spin off titles makes things complicated. It seems like the intended way to digest the lore is from FFVII OG and other mainline titles, including books and other media (like movies) published or distributed by SE, and then the Remakes. Plus, spin off titles, more often than not, aren’t supposed to move major plot points or character arcs. So I’d take what’s said in Dissidia, Kingdom Hearts, and other things like that with a grain of salt.
I’ve never played Dissidia or Kingdom Hearts either and I’m just making assumptions, so I guess also take what I say with a grain of salt lol.

Kingdom Hearts is an AU. Dissidia almost implies that they get plucked from their respective games, then take part in Dissidia, then are placed back in their games with no memory of what happened. But then they remember if they’re called back (Dissidia NT).

Thing is, Dissidia isn’t gonna get into the nitty gritty of canon events for each game so they need to come up with short and simple things so that players can glean whatever they need to about these characters to understand the functioning story.

If you’re a new player and haven’t played OG FF7, the game needs to fast track Cloud and Tifa’s relationship so that it can at least work within the bounds of Dissidia’s story. So just quickly calling her “Nakama” or childhood friend makes for a short and simple introduction for who she is as she pertains to Cloud, Dissidia isn’t gonna bog itself down with a play-by-play of how exactly Cloud and Tifa’s relationship is for two reasons. It’s irrelevant to Dissidia’s story… and also because then it spoils the OG for any new players that might be interested as a result of Dissidia.

Does that make sense? That was a bit long-winded.

 

[abzy1200]

If you’re a new player and haven’t played OG FF7, the game needs to fast track Cloud and Tifa’s relationship so that it can at least work within the bounds of Dissidia’s story. So just quickly calling her “Nakama” or childhood friend makes for a short and simple introduction for who she is as she pertains to Cloud, Dissidia isn’t gonna bog itself down with a play-by-play of how exactly Cloud and Tifa’s relationship is for two reasons. It’s irrelevant to Dissidia’s story… and also because then it spoils the OG for any new players that might be interested as a result of Dissidia.

Does that make sense? That was a bit long-winded.

That's a good way to put it, I think.

 

[Yoru]

To be fair, I don't think Cloud knows she's dead. He actually thinks he saved her.

He thinks he saved her AFTER she puts her hand on his cheek and tells him everything will be alright. So no, the "fake cry"/OG monologue is still being used with a dead Aerith in mind.

 

[GamerSkull]

He thinks he saved her AFTER she puts her hand on his cheek and tells him everything will be alright. So no, the "fake cry"/OG monologue is still being used with a dead Aerith in mind.

That monologue is blocked out. As if Cloud is repressing it.

But yeah, you see him mouth it.