SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
As for the LS scene. Nojima is building the shit out of it since Remake. All the forshadowing is not for nothing. It's the devs favorite moment and they know too well why. They know it's Tifa and Cloud moment. Aerith can't do shit to help except showing Tifa the way. And after ? Entering Cloud mind palace and watch all the Tifa's posters ? Pretty rude. So yeah, I'm pretty sure it will stay the same as OG, just extended (we can see their Midgar flat in Tifa LS from chapter 9)

I’m still holding onto that scene where they make up after “fighting” in Kalm. Cloud says they’ll find time to talk and figure it all out. Then Tifa says he better be ready to spill his guts.

I mean come on, their argument is about their clouded memories from 5 years ago (more so on Cloud’s part) so I don’t feel crazy in saying maybe this is a nod to the LS sequence because as far as I remember they do not figure it out in Rebirth lol. That is definitely when they figure it all out and spill their guts out.

I don’t know how I’ll survive the wait…
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I’m still holding onto that scene where they make up after “fighting” in Kalm. Cloud says they’ll find time to talk and figure it all out. Then Tifa says he better be ready to spill his guts.

I mean come on, their argument is about their clouded memories from 5 years ago (more so on Cloud’s part) so I don’t feel crazy in saying maybe this is a nod to the LS sequence because as far as I remember they do not figure it out in Rebirth lol. That is definitely when they figure it all out and spill their guts out.

I don’t know how I’ll survive the wait…
Let’s hope it’s a 2027 release for the 30th Anniversary.

Holy shit, I’ll be Cid’s age.
 
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Yoru

Pro Adventurer
I don't really agree. For me atleast, I was still heartbroken and felt like tearing up playing that Jenova fight, atleast while her theme was playing, even though I had already seen it happen in the original 3 times.
Proof it wasn't that bad then. They didn't give you what you wanted completely and you still felt something.

And it will be even better in Part 3. We can't judge now and be so gloomy.

You're all just too focused on the past.
 
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abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
Proof it wasn't that bad then. They didn't give you what you wanted completely and you still felt something.
I could accept the changes made to it before Aerith showed up to fight Sephiroth with Cloud........ That's when I went "WTF?! she just died! why would they reduce the emotional impact like that!?"

It's not that I was upset because I had hope she would live, (on the contrary, I was really hoping for her to die, since it's such an emotional moment that stuck with me, I was looking forward to seeing it again, redone with better visuals that were easier to take seriously.) I was upset because it was just a sad moment, tragic even. The multiversal stuff didn't really do anything but take away from it.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
This has just conjured in me an image of Tifa invading Cloud’s palace Persona 5-style to steal his heart.

What would her codename be?

I know her aesthetic would totally be a Dolphin though.
Codename: Orca

Actually, let me go through the extended party real quick
Cloud- Merc
Tifa- Orca
Barret- Stamp (Marlene's suggestion)
Jessie - Twinkle toes
Biggs - Hot Shot
Wedge - Hoagie
Aerith - Lily
Red- Maybe Trooper, to reference his masterful human disguise, or Shark, because of his love of card games
Yuffie- Tanuki
Cait- Jester
Vincent - Turk
Cid - Flyboy


Let’s hope it’s a 2027 for the 30th Anniversary.

Holy shit, I’ll be Cid’s age.

Stop because I’m already Cid’s age lmao.

To be fair I’d play the last game if it came out when I was 50. I mean I’ve been into anime and video games my entire life, I love how Rebirth holds the hand of my inner child.
Whippersnappers, the lot of you.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Codename: Orca

Actually, let me go through the extended party real quick
Cloud- Merc
Tifa- Orca
Barret- Stamp (Marlene's suggestion)
Jessie - Twinkle toes
Biggs - Hot Shot
Wedge - Hoagie
Aerith - Lily
Red- Maybe Trooper, to reference his masterful human disguise, or Shark, because of his love of card games
Yuffie- Tanuki
Cait- Jester
Vincent - Turk
Cid - Flyboy





Whippersnappers, the lot of you.
Would Zack just be “Gongaga” ?
 

cgnVirtue

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
Virtue
I’m still holding onto that scene where they make up after “fighting” in Kalm. Cloud says they’ll find time to talk and figure it all out. Then Tifa says he better be ready to spill his guts.

I mean come on, their argument is about their clouded memories from 5 years ago (more so on Cloud’s part) so I don’t feel crazy in saying maybe this is a nod to the LS sequence because as far as I remember they do not figure it out in Rebirth lol. That is definitely when they figure it all out and spill their guts out.

I don’t know how I’ll survive the wait…
They also teased us so hard because the next time they have alone time (if I remember correctly) is in Gongaga after Tifa recovers. And it’s crazy how close Cloud is to realizing what’s actually going on in him at that point in the story.

It just made me realize that Tifa was so comfortable getting close to him that they nearly unavoidably kissed and that was just her remembering what Cloud did for her when they were kids. What’s it going to be like when she pieces Cloud back together, realizes that he was there for her in Nibelheim, and that he’s also been in love with her all this time? 😵‍💫

Anyways, that conversation in Gongaga was huge, and he nearly spills his guts there. I think we even hear a hint of the real Cloud there too. I’m so excited for the Lifestream sequence.

Let’s hope it’s a 2027 for the 30th Anniversary.

Holy shit, I’ll be Cid’s age.

LOL. It’s crazy being on the older end of most people on social media and then I come here and I’m pretty average, even younger, comparatively. Just turned 27 last Wednesday. Thank you guys for making me not feel old :monster:.
 

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
Stop because I’m already Cid’s age lmao.

To be fair I’d play the last game if it came out when I was 50. I mean I’ve been into anime and video games my entire life, I love how Rebirth holds the hand of my inner child.

Same! It feels so weird, lol! When I first played OG, Cid seemed sooo old to me, and now here I am... going to be older than him when the next game comes out.

But the takeaway from all of this is that you don't stop liking the things you liked before just because you got older, right?. My interests expanded, but never retreated. I just enjoy even more things now :blush:
 

c.lupara

Pro Adventurer
After a period of closure to play FF 16 and play some Rebirth regions again I'm back!

I can't help but notice how similar some aspects of Cloud and Tifa's relationship are to Clive and Jill's.
Now, I don't know if it's a coincidence, but SE has a problem with childhood friends xD Jokes aside:
the theme of the promise is a constant in both relationships and the feeling is very similar.
C/J almost kiss in the infirmary it's practically the same gongaga situation between C/T.

I don't want to say it but all things considered, in part 3 the path between Cloud and Tifa is almost clear: LS will probably end with a kiss and HW will end as you can easily imagine.

Returning to Aerith: after having replayed some parts of Rebirth I can say that personally I find the evolution of her character insufficient.

It is practically unimportant until chapter 13 and in the chapters preceding this, excluding gongaga, it is practically a trigger to strengthen the development of Cloud and Tifa's relationship.

At Kalm Tower she practically seems like your girlfriend's best friend who tries to make peace between you after an argument;

in the tunnel to exit Kalm she is the instigator of an embarrassing situation (for Cloud);

Nibel tries to understand where Cloud and Tifa's relationship stands.

I don't even consider "the date" of chapter 14 since it's not even the Aerith we have during the game. In short, his character has become, more than central, a narrative device and nothing else.

The ending: it's not bad but it's not good either. I think it's cringe until you leave the forgotten capital, but from that point on it's acceptable.
 

insanehobbit

Pro Adventurer
@Ryushikaze you're probably right (at least more likely to be right than I am lol) about what's happening in the ending, but that's the kind of thing that frustrates me the most about the ReTrilogy. Having multiple versions of characters running around just makes everything so needlessly convoluted w/r/t character motivations.

Sephiroth, I can understand, and I understand the reasoning behind Aerith too, but introducing this at the very end of the game and making some of the final moments we spend with "Aerith" actually being a different version of her was really such a disservice to her character.

Going back to an earlier conversation, I think the way Rebirth "introduces" and "concludes" Aerith's arc really colors people's perception of her character. (That and our collective brain worms from engaging in these debates for the past 27 years, lol.)

We've discussed the "dream date" to death, and I understand the role it plays in the narrative and her character arc, and I'm fine with it being in the final chapter of the game even, but I just don't understand why this ended up being the last real scene we see of her.

Why is the rest of Ch. 14 almost entirely told through Cloud's POV? Why couldn't have we followed Aerith, and "our" Aerith at that, after she is separated from the party and goes to the Forbidden City alone? Wouldn't this have been the perfect conclusion to her arc? To save those she loves, those who saved her from a life of loneliness, she must face her fate as the last Cetra, alone.

Ch. 9 gave us an extended sequence from Tifa's POV when she's facing a near-death experience. Why couldn't Ch. 14 shown us Aerith's POV as she's actually walking to her own death?

Instead, we only hear her disembodied prayer as Cloud walks to the altar, so the last scene we have of her a fully-realized character is one where she's trying to sort out her feelings between Cloud and Zack. This is not all she is, but I don't think the devs have anyone to blame but themselves for people thinking otherwise.

But the way Rebirth introduces her/sets up her arc is even more puzzling to me. In Ch. 1 & 2, we learn that the Whispers have taken away her memories of the future, and then she tells Cloud not to take Tifa for granted and talks about her own wish for a childhood friend growing up. We have a scene with a bit of Cetra lore, and then one where she shows how much she cares about her two new friends and how hard it's been for her to make friends. So far, so good, and pretty much in line with what the devs' intent for her to be.

But then we get to the scene in the tunnel where Aerith calls her Clock Tower outing with Cloud a "date" in front of Tifa. It turns what was previously a really nice scene for all three of their relationships into something that just feels weird, and it really colors how we see all three of these dynamics play out for the rest of the game.

Cloud/Aerith: I think the characterization that Aerith spends the whole game trying to drag Cloud around a bunch of dates is unfair (ignoring the GS dates since everyone gets that, there's really only the Costa del Sol side quest, and the "dream date" - which, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Aerith nor the game ever explicitly calls this a "date" though obviously it feels like one. The story summary just calls it a "stroll"), but I can see why some people might get the impression after the scene in Kalm. If Aerith considers the Clock Tower conversation a "date," even though they pretty much talked about Tifa the whole time, then it's not too much of a stretch to think that she considers every one-on-one interaction with Cloud "a date" or to read romantic motivations behind every conversation she has with him. That's definitely not the devs' intended interpretation, but that is the inevitable consequence of having a moment like this so early in the game.

But how Cloud reacts here also frames our interpretations of his actions going forward. He's looking at Tifa while trying to pull his arm away. He went up on the Clock Tower without any romantic intentions, and going forward we should assume the same with his future interactions with Aerith unless something about their dynamic changes. At least that's what I took away from this scene. That's why I was very suspicious about some of the pre-release GS "leaks". If they wanted to build up to Cloud making a romantic gesture towards Aerith on the Gondola, they absolutely would not start their relationship in Rebirth like this.

Aerith/Tifa: This one really bums me out because Aerith and Tifa's relationship in Remake was so fun and refreshing because they took away all the petty jealousy from their first meeting that was present in the OG. So when they spent the entirety of the Sewers chapter getting to know each other better while teasing or ignoring Cloud, I totally bought it. Here, they go back to that dynamic the moment they get to the Grasslands, but it just felt so shallow/surface level. Like they're only playing pretend by not addressing the elephant in the room.

This really is a place where I think having more women on the team would have helped. Because look at it from Tifa's perspective...she confides in Aerith about her relationship with Cloud the night before and finds out that Aerith takes Cloud out on a date the very next morning. Tifa is not a confrontational person, so I don't think it's out of character for her to not bring it up, but it just makes all the interactions between her and Aerith feel very shallow and almost two-faced. Do they address it when they talk about their "first loves" sometime between the Shinra Cruiser and Gongaga? Maybe! But if they did, they really ought to have shown us.

As to why Aerith would call it a "date" in front of Tifa...I'm kind of at a loss. Pre-release, I thought it might be a way for Aerith to try to push Cloud and Tifa together, but it doesn't really feel like that's the dynamic in Rebirth (though you can argue that she's also doing this on the Water Tower in Nibelheim). And her actions on the Clock Tower itself are clearly not those of a someone who is trying to "steal" Tifa's man, so to speak, she's actually looking out for her there...so why on earth would the devs have Aerith do this here in front of Tifa?

If they wanted to (re)-establish Aerith's romantic interest in Cloud, they could easily have done this on the Clock Tower itself or in a later one-on-one conversation with Cloud rather than in front of the rest of the party. Which leads me to think that this moment is actually meant to service the third dynamic.

Cloud/Tifa: The game immediately cuts to Tifa's look of surprise/possible jealousy after Aerith says "date." Then it focuses on Cloud's reaction to Tifa. Ch. 1 establishes that Cloud and Tifa's relationship and their past are going to be a primary focus for the game. While you can read romantic yearning into their fight in Kalm, it's not an explicitly romantic scene. You can also interpret it as a very real disagreement between two close but platonic friends. It's much harder to dismiss their relationship as merely platonic after this, because why should Tifa care that her platonic friend went on a date? And why should Cloud worry what his platonic friend thinks about his romantic liaisons?

This also tracks with Rebirth having Yuffie and Cait Sith whisper "Kiss" outside of the door in Gongaga. The game is about as subtle as a hammer when it comes to making sure that the player understands that Cloud and Tifa's relationship is meant to be romantic.

But again, like in Gongaga, there are ways to establish Cloud and Tifa's romantic dynamic without putting Aerith in such a weird position and undermining Aerith and Tifa's relationship going forward.

So yeah, I really don't know what they were thinking here. Part of me wonders if these were included to really kill the Love Triangle dead, at least when it comes to Cloud's affections. Ch. 2 has Cloud pull his arm away from Aerith after their first scene together. Ch. 14 has Cloud deflect/tell Aerith she's acting weird after she kind of confesses in their last scene together (at least before her death). There's nothing romantic from the start; there's nothing romantic by the end.

But again, there were ways to do this without giving Aerith's character the short end of the stick. The fact that the explanation of what NPTK means has come as a surprise to so many really proves how badly they missed the mark. (That or maybe we should just learn to ignore everything a certain part of the fanbase says, lol).
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Honestly, I never actually took NTPK as a love song even before Nojima clarified it, but perhaps that is because of shipping goggles.

To me, I always felt it had multiple meanings but seeing cameos like the Avalanche trio always stuck out to me as “this is not simply a love song”.
 
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