SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryushikaze]

There's no way in hell that part 3 supposedly has some parts already leaked right?

Depends. Do you count the script of the OG as a leak?

 

[LNK]

Well yeah, I was never arguing that the retrilogy wouldn't lead into AC, just that it would be folded in.

I don't think OtwTaS will be it's own DLC but I could wrong. If anything I see that more as being included at the end of the retrilogy game or peppered through the credits in a variety of cut scenes tbh. And then ACC and DoC can be their own episodes.

Sorry, but I'm not getting what you mean by "folded in." If ACC and DoC are folded in by being DLC episodes, can't they already be folded in as is?

 

[ChaosandConfusion]

Depends. Do you count the script of the OG as a leak?

Maybe. If the future is rewriting the past annd no idea where I was going with this statement.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Sorry, but I'm not getting what you mean by "folded in." If ACC and DoC are folded in by being DLC episodes, can't they already be folded in as is?

Rin was saying- and Rin may correct me, that the idea was that rather than retrilogy end and AC take over, Retrilogy will remake AC, thus "folding it in" to the whole remake project.

 

[abzy1200]

Well yeah, I was never arguing that the retrilogy wouldn't lead into AC, just that it would be folded in.

I don't think OtwTaS will be it's own DLC but I could wrong. If anything I see that more as being included at the end of the retrilogy game or peppered through the credits in a variety of cut scenes tbh. And then ACC and DoC can be their own episodes.

I feel like Cloud's "because this time I have you" might work well as a post credits scene if it's going to lead to AC.

 

[Rin]

Rin was saying- and Rin may correct me, that the idea was that rather than retrilogy end and AC take over, Retrilogy will remake AC, thus "folding it in" to the whole remake project.

Yes, this!

 

[LNK]

Rin was saying- and Rin may correct me, that the idea was that rather than retrilogy end and AC take over, Retrilogy will remake AC, thus "folding it in" to the whole remake project.

That's what I thought they meant. Then it would also fold in OtwtaS and DoC right? If that were true, then that would go against what the devs have said they're doing with the remake trilogy though. It would no longer be a remake of ff7.

It'd also make the post ff7 compilation material non canon as is currently. At least to the re trilogy

 

[Ryushikaze]

That's what I thought they meant. Then it would also fold in OtwtaS and DoC right? If that were true, then that would go against what the devs have said they're doing with the remake trilogy though. It would no longer be a remake of ff7.

Not automatically it would not. They could in this theoretical just do a playable remake of ACC and not do scenes from any OTWTAS or touch DOC at all. As for being against what the devs said... maybe? If the base game ends with the end of FF7 with AC as DLC that might count as separate enough for them?

This is all speculative still so who even knows. Maybe we'll get a DoC remake with playable AC as a prologue level of sorts. While it was Vincent's game and story, it could have used some more playable moments from other team members.

 

[Rin]

If that were true, then that would go against what the devs have said they're doing with the remake trilogy though. It would no longer be a remake of ff7.

Not really, it'd just be considered another entry in the 'remake project' like Crisis Core: Reunion.
Plus Kitase said the world of FF7 probably won't end with the retrilogy but this may be his final contribution/involvement.

 

[LNK]

Not automatically it would not. They could in this theoretical just do a playable remake of ACC and not do scenes from any OTWTAS or touch DOC at all. As for being against what the devs said... maybe? If the base game ends with the end of FF7 with AC as DLC that might count as separate enough for them?

This is all speculative still so who even knows. Maybe we'll get a DoC remake with playable AC as a prologue level of sorts. While it was Vincent's game and story, it could have used some more playable moments from other team members.

Not really, it'd just be considered another entry in the 'remake project' like Crisis Core: Reunion.
Plus Kitase said the world of FF7 probably won't end with the retrilogy but this may be his final contribution/involvement.

Ok, I see. So none of it will actually be integrated within the trilogy. That makes sense. I'd prefer they did whole projects instead of DLC though. We got a remaster for CC and a rerelease of AC, I'd rather they not trim the rest of the compilation down. Especially DoC

 

[nars305]

Advent Children can’t fall out of canon because of Denzel

 

[pxl_pushr]

Advent Children can’t fall out of canon because of Denzel

I mean, if it means his parents live then alright, but at least let him still be buds with Marlene

 

[Ryushikaze]

I mean, if it means his parents live then alright, but at least let him still be buds with Marlene

I mean, unless their fate was changed, then they have already perished as they both die in the sector 7 plate drop.

 

[nars305]

As far as what is shown after for more closure. For me personally, if the game nails all the scenes with Cloud and Tifa, their relationship is undeniable, no ambiguity, and it’s just perfect… Then I don’t think I’ll ask for much more.

I’m one of the ten people that like AC, and I like all the other stuff in between. However…I would still love something after showing everyone more stable and living. It’d be a welcome surprise but I’m not counting on anything.

 

[pxl_pushr]

As far as what is shown after for more closure. For me personally, if the game nails all the scenes with Cloud and Tifa, their relationship is undeniable, no ambiguity, and it’s just perfect… Then I don’t think I’ll ask for much more.

I’m one of the ten people that like AC, and I like all the other stuff in between. However…I would still love something after showing everyone more stable and living. It’d be a welcome surprise but I’m not counting on anything.

I just want some more playable motorbike segments and some sweet domestic Cloud and Tifa, I’ll be upfront.

 

[abzy1200]

I just want some more playable motorbike segments and some sweet domestic Cloud and Tifa, I’ll be upfront.

I want to see more of the turks aswell, that's something else I hope they retain in part 3 and or show more of, how they're supposed to be Shinra's equivalent of the CIA but are actually more akin to Team Rocket from the Pokemon anime.

Always loved those guys, especially in Advent Children.

 

[Rin]

Ok, I see. So none of it will actually be integrated within the trilogy. That makes sense. I'd prefer they did whole projects instead of DLC though. We got a remaster for CC and a rerelease of AC, I'd rather they not trim the rest of the compilation down. Especially DoC

Yeah, they can do it however they'd like but no I wasn't necessarily saying it would be within part 3 itself. I don't think there's any room for that given how much of the OG is left to cover + the new Zack/Aerith plot stuff so it'll either be DLC or other official game titles, but DLC would be the most "accessible" for fans, I'd think.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I want to see more of the turks aswell, that's something else I hope they retain in part 3 and or show more of, how they're supposed to be Shinra's equivalent of the CIA but are actually more akin to Team Rocket from the Pokemon anime.

Always loved those guys, especially in Advent Children.

The Turks legitimately contributed to me falling in love with FF7 early in my first playthrough as a kid. Their theme was silky smooth, and they were a good time despite their… questionable actions throughout the story.

I’m looking forward to Cloud interacting with them later in part 3.

 

[abzy1200]

The Turks legitimately contributed to me falling in love with FF7 early in my first playthrough as a kid. Their theme was silky smooth, and they were a good time despite their… questionable actions throughout the story.

I’m looking forward to Cloud interacting with them later in part 3.

Especially at the bar in Wutai, I've always loved that particular interaction.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

His gift is everlasting!

He certainly thinks it should be

So AC, OtwtaS and DoC won't be canon to the Re trilogy?

Not remotely what I mean. I mean that since DoC they've never seemed inclined to move the timeline any further along, excepting Nanaki and his kids 500 years later but that we already had.

For sure! I'm thankful Final Fantasy games are always pretty good about that

S'kinda nice right?

Ironically, despite all my various head traumas, a concussion is one thing I've never had.

I don't recommend them, even the silly giggly phase I usually get early on is scary.

By definition you have the Devil's eyes. Do you have a pickup truck?

I might have, once upon a time. But time means nothing, never will again.

Works for me.

Then give it a raise

Tifa and Ms Pauling teaming up would also be amazing.

Think watching Pauling drool over Tifa will clue Scout in on why waiting patiently isn't working for him? ... Nah me either.

A love that burns, as opposed to one that crushes like a mace.

LA-LA-LA-LA-LA

Sometimes that just happens to sonic, you know. At least '06 times.

Ouch. Gonna need a Burn Heal for that one.

Sadly it never is.

They say nothing worth doing us ever easy. Which is demonstrably false but sounds good.

I don't think you will. Still best of luck.

Unlikely as it is, I know I've strained things to "everything tastes like blood" levels before so We'll have to see.

He's raising a daughter as a single black dad with one arm AND managing a bar and an ecoterrorist cell at the same time.

Yeah, dude deserved a real vacation.

Imagine, if you will, the alternate timeline where Aerith watches the kids for the afternoon so Cloud and Tifa can have some alone time. (Or, if you like, one where they get Yuffie to do it so the three of them can have fun)

Beware of CAltists pouring gasoline while viewing the wholesome and beautiful alternate future.

Shipping in general gets a lot of people very very worked up. Not just over "which pair is endgame" but also the other dark aspects of shipping discourse.

I Have seen those dark places. The Devil Himself (me) shudders at the thought.

That's why I'm sure it's been made before.

Simpsons did it?

By counting their copes as they lay down at night.

Well now you made it adorable.

Oh, the Deepground Color Guard.... I mean Tsviets.

Indeed.

Imagine the mines, or better yet, Gold Saucer as a TF2 map.

Picturing a sentry nest built into the gondola now. I love it.

Possibly less ethical, but definitely less creepy than Hojo.

Hojo: What did you do to my specimen?! You told me you were filling a cavity...

Medic: I was! The one I made in his abdomen.

We'll find out.

TIs the plan.

Mostly I think he'd fit in with the dumbass punks around there.

I mean, he did until they exploded

The reason I say possible is because he might be active still. He might even be... Cloud's Father!

Scout has a brother? Wait nah his dad is Tome Jones, silly me.

The only known fact about Pyro is that Pyro is the CEO of a megacorp when not being Pyro.

An engineering firm, mind you. Pyro and Engie have been roomies for years after all.

Cid's cousin, in fact.

I could see Cid saying most of Engie's lines, so can't argue that.

Yep. She's got them hooked, the poor bastards.

New product, mako infused marijuana. We call it 1st Class, want a hit? -- Aerith in this darker timeline

Tifa's attention is the reward he wants anyways.

It's good to have a goal in your early twenties, and hey it's even an achievable, realistic goal. It gets him through.

Imagine him needing to get dragged there by like Golbez and Jecht.

On the other hand, M. Bison and Kano are both there seemingly if their own accord. Maybe a self-aware Sephiroth has hope yet... but yeah Golbez in particular would be the one trying to get him to his first meeting.

You think they'd pair off and solve the issue, but no.

We don't have time for obvious rational solutions.

We'll call it Mom of War and there won't be any legal issues at all ever.

None at all. No resemblance between Mom of War and Dad of Boy. That's silly.

I know, right?

When you know you know.

I mean he probably is, he's just not thinking about it.

Now I want you to read this in MasakoX's Goku voice specifically: Yeah, i know. That's what subconsciously means.

I am a beacon of kindness and patience. A modern day buddha, if you will. But you may still only strike the buddha three times, after all.

As the Devil and Dark-type Gym Leader alike, I counteroffer Sucker Punching the aggressor before the first hit lands.

Pretty much this. Do you know how hard it is to fill that gauge when you're dead?

And she had just used Fury Brand. She needed a minute.

Yes. She does not succeed at moving on from Zack. She knows she should, but...

Aerith too needs a hug.

One might indeed.

So I shall.

You can find it online pretty easily. "2000 gil to be a hero" brought it up quick for me.

Good to know.

It helps that in this case Cloud is both not interested in pursuing a romance and not aware a romance was being considered. He's more like "I have a friend!"

Exactly. May everyone who gets friend zoned be unaware there were other options and mega happy to have the friend.

Aerith's red dress was very sexual, though.

Let's be honest that is an amazing dress. I do not know women's fashion and I can tell you that much. It's undeniably a sexy dress what with...

So many closeups on the exposed flesh and her cleavage.

That It's wonderfully tailored to flatter her, and has all the elements needed to take it from a nice fuck-me dress to an elegant piece. Aerith wouldn't look out of place at a Hollywood awards ceremony in that dress.

Which is understandable, Aerith is pretty, but for Cloud she is a candle next to the Bonfire called Tifa.

Pretty much.

No, this makes perfect sense. Both ships need to establish that Cloud has romantic intentions for the woman in question.

As in that's the entire debate.

Finding them attractive is sort of the bare minimum here. It gets you to the starting line.

Hence us admitting Aerith has a place in this race at all.

Cloud has numerous textual and extra-textual (Ultimanias, being outside the narrative but commenting on it) examples of his continuing attraction to and intentions toward Tifa. Aerith, not quite.

Hence Aerith rapidly flagging and falling behind in said race.

I mean, their feelings to match, after all.

It never gets old.

It's a weird line, because you want characters to come across as real and as though they have agency even though they literally do not- they are fictional and cannot have their own agency external to the will of a writer, natch -but even then they have to feel real while still serving the needs of the narrative.

People don't connect this strongly with characters who don't feel alive, real, with agency. It's a rather important enabler to willing suspension of disbelief. So no, they have none of that and will do whatever the writers say, however they say, whenever they say. But if it feels like that's what is happening... Well I for one probably wouldn't even finish that story, let alone sign up to chat about it 27 years later.

 

[pxl_pushr]

so in the years since Advent Children, we have all caught on that Denzel basically = Cloud and Marlene basically = Aerith and their dynamic sums up their relationship… right? Not siblings, but they are siblings? Just me?

 

[Rin]

so in the years since Advent Children, we have all caught on that Denzel basically = Cloud and Marlene basically = Aerith and their dynamic sums up their relationship… right? Not siblings, but they are siblings? Just me?

I can see what you mean, yeah.
I don't deny the romantic implications of Clerith cause that's silly, but it didn't escape me that they framed Cloud holding Aerith post death the exact same way Sonon held his sister as she was dying.

 

[Eerie]

so in the years since Advent Children, we have all caught on that Denzel basically = Cloud and Marlene basically = Aerith and their dynamic sums up their relationship… right? Not siblings, but they are siblings? Just me?

??? Marlene is described as a mini-Tifa lol.

I also don’t think the relationship Denzel and Marlene have is anything like CT’s lol.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I can see what you mean, yeah.
I don't deny the romantic implications of Clerith cause that's silly, but it didn't escape me that they framed Cloud holding Aerith post death the exact same way Sonon held his sister as she was dying.

In the original I could easily see the beginnings of the romantic angle, but Rebirth very much has Cloud draw a line he won’t cross in those terms. Personally enjoy him trying to be caring to a friend who is clearly hurting while also trying to maintain his boundaries.

Not sure if it says somewhere Marlene is more like Tifa, but to me she always came off as more Aerith coded in AC, but maybe it’s the ribbon that’s throwing me off. That and she has words for Tifa and Cloud like how Aerith would tell them they’re being ridiculous

 

[insanehobbit]

God, I hope they do incorporate ACC/some sort of post-DoC epilogue into part 3, if only so I can finally be free. It feels like Nomura/Nojima want that too, lol.

I finally finished my hard mode run/platinum'd the game last night (I never want to see Chadley/Odin again in my life). And I have to say, while the game still has pacing issues up the wazoo, the ending works better for me the second time around, and I also think I understand/appreciate Ch. 14 more overall.

This is probably just repeating myself/repeating what others have already said, but just to get everything down in one place:
The "dream date" is considered part of Zack's Interlude for a reason. We cannot understand the Cloud/Aerith scenes without the context of the Zack scenes and vice versa.

The interlude begins with Zack faced with a branching path, and then a flashback to Zack asking Marlene if Aerith likes Cloud, raising two dramatic questions to be answered by the scenes that follow:
1) Does Zack make the right choice?
2) Does Aerith "like" Cloud?

Question 1 can be answered through Zack's scenes alone. There is no "right" choice. No matter what choice he makes, he dies/that "world" ends.

The Cloud/Aerith scenes reiterate this point in parallel. Zack has three "choices." The outcomes of his "choices" are intercut with Cloud and Aerith at three vendors, each who offer the player three "choices." Like with Zack, your choice doesn't matter. No matter what you choose, the outcome doesn't change. The story stays the same.

I think that's why there are two options for Cloud's dialogue in the church. The interlude also incorporates all the "choices" you've made throughout Rebirth. But like with Zack's "choices," like with the vendor "choices," they don't matter. The rest of the scene plays out the exact same way. No matter your choices, the story doesn't change.

The ending of Remake made a lot of players believe that things could be different this time around. That they could choose the direction in which the story will go. The ending of Rebirth is telling us that your choices do not matter. The story of FF7 is the same as its always been, even if it's different from how some people have remembered/interpreted it.

As for the second question, this cannot be answered through Zack's scenes alone. The question wouldn't even be posed if the Cloud/Aerith scenes weren't there to answer it.

What these scenes also do is give finality/closure to the relationship that the OG and even the Compilation lacked. Yes, Cloud likes her/wants to spend more time with her, but even if he doesn't explicitly nakama-zone her, the way he immediately deflects after Aerith questions what kind of "like" she has for him makes it clear he doesn't like her like that.

As for the question itself, about Aerith's feelings for Cloud -- the answer is yes, she does like him, but not in the way we think/Zack fears.

While Aerith never explicitly mentions Zack during the date, the game tells us for her. Even if you haven't played CCR and connected the "dream date" to her first date with Zack, Rebirth forces you to make the connection when Aerith tells Cloud to meet her at "our place" / "a place of memories" -- to which Cloud is confused, then the game immediately cuts to Zack sitting in front of the Church.

And if you think about it, this transition is a bit jarring. The beginning of the interlude suggests that Zack has two choices: to find a cure for Cloud or to save Biggs from blowing himself up. We've already seen the outcome of both these "choices," so we could assume this part of his story is done. We're not necessarily expecting to see Zack again, especially not in front of the church.

In front of the church, Zack acts as if he's been torn between three choices all along (even though that doesn't really make sense, since saving Cloud was ostensibly how he was going to save Aerith). But even if we're following his logic...we see him try to find a cure for Cloud by going after Hojo, we seen him trying to save Biggs by going to the Sector 6 reactor...now how exactly is he supposed to save Aerith by sitting in front of the church?

All this is just a long-winded way to say that there is absolutely no other story reason for Zack to be sitting in front of the church at this particular moment in the game other than the fact that the devs want the player to make the connection that, whether consciously or not, Aerith has been thinking about Zack this whole time, and that's why she's not sure what kind of like she has for Cloud.

The devs are sledge-hammering the point home in the final boss fights. We have so many party iterations: Cloud solo, Cloud/Zack, Zack solo, Cloud/Aerith...why is the Zack solo fight the only one that takes place at the church? Why not have the final Cloud/Aerith vs. Sephiroth fight take place at "Our Place"?

And then of course, look at where Zack ends up at the very end of the game.

Which is why seeing all the Zerith dooming has been crazy to me. It could not be more obvious that they're endgame. What's left is a bit of dramatic irony. We the player know the truth, but Zack does not. He'll have to wait until part 3.

And if anyone still legitimately thinks part 3 is gonna have a choose your own adventure/romance ending...just go play Baldur's Gate instead, lol.