SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Yeah, something like Cloud actually handing her a clover.
Honestly, this is like saying Cloud is blonde therefore the girls have a bestiality kink for Chocobos. Complete vapid nonsense.
No correlation. It’s grasping at straws.
Hellenic
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Hellenic
Reminds me of the "look Cloud said Tifa isn't his girlfriend" back when Aerith asks what she is to Cloud and he denies the girlfriend bit, yet doesn't have a proper answer on what Tifa is to him. Like yeah no shit she wasn't his girlfriend. Every player would know that right now.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
It’s funny because you can straight up say yes in the OG.
null
Mr. Thou
- AKA
- null
I'm impressed that writing would even factor into it. The calculus of self-insertion is mysterious and fascinating.
Like my favorite wacky fandom, Riverdale. I thought K.J. Apa would be the fan favorite... he is Archie after all. And he’s good looking, right? But the younger crowd far and away prefers Cole Sprouse. Why? I have absolutely no idea. Maybe it's that Suite Life rizz. (But even I can tell why the 30+ crowd loves Skeet Ulrich.)
As a card carrying Zack Bro I fail to comprehend how Cloud is the Cole to Zack’s A.J. Zack’s such a chad. Like in real life he would be a Seal Team 6 officer.
overheat28
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- Overheat
I personally don't see much of a difference between CC Zack and Rebirth Zack. It's the same guy for all intents and purposes.
The only difference is, we're seeing a slightly different side of him - he is interacting with normal people in Rebirth and not the freaks at Soldier/Shinra. His sole focus is also Aerith so it brings out his tender side more. But it was always there. That church scene where he mourned Angeal is all proof that is required. That is the iconic Zerith scene imo, even more than the shattering DMW with Aerith's picture.
But this is the same guy who kept trying to get Genesis to see reason right up until he transformed into Genesis Avatar. What he does for Biggs, he tried for Genesis, Angeal, and Sephiroth, too. And thats the thing - there is a huge difference between talking to Marlene and a genocidal maniac you know you're going to have to fight.
I think PSP limitations are primarily at fault here too - he should've been more fleshed out. CC should have been a full fat console experience.
The man was also like Sephiroth's last true friend and you can tell he feels very betrayed at what he turned into, it must have stung hard to learn the man you once thought of as a comrade is now coming to kill Aerith. Shame they likely don't have the space to explore this angle more. Zack's relationship with the other First Classes needs more exploration and it must have hurt like hell to watch all of them fall one by one to their own demons.
As for self inserting - imo it's always going to be easier to identify with Kirito than Goku.
The only difference is, we're seeing a slightly different side of him - he is interacting with normal people in Rebirth and not the freaks at Soldier/Shinra. His sole focus is also Aerith so it brings out his tender side more. But it was always there. That church scene where he mourned Angeal is all proof that is required. That is the iconic Zerith scene imo, even more than the shattering DMW with Aerith's picture.
But this is the same guy who kept trying to get Genesis to see reason right up until he transformed into Genesis Avatar. What he does for Biggs, he tried for Genesis, Angeal, and Sephiroth, too. And thats the thing - there is a huge difference between talking to Marlene and a genocidal maniac you know you're going to have to fight.
I think PSP limitations are primarily at fault here too - he should've been more fleshed out. CC should have been a full fat console experience.
The man was also like Sephiroth's last true friend and you can tell he feels very betrayed at what he turned into, it must have stung hard to learn the man you once thought of as a comrade is now coming to kill Aerith. Shame they likely don't have the space to explore this angle more. Zack's relationship with the other First Classes needs more exploration and it must have hurt like hell to watch all of them fall one by one to their own demons.
As for self inserting - imo it's always going to be easier to identify with Kirito than Goku.
abzy1200
Pro Adventurer
Like, do people want Cloud to go around calling Tifa his girlfriend when she isn't? It's literally grasping at straws for some semblance of a talking point from them.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
This is also before Cloud gets his true self back so his feelings for her are muddled up in his SOLDIER persona.
abzy1200
Pro Adventurer
tl;dr: Context.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Honestly, the tweet seems like a parody,
abzy1200
Pro Adventurer
It has to be, surely.
Hisssssss the forbidden word burns us
Ryeleigh
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Rye
I think so? But it's okay, they were using it as a motivation for squats, lol. To be honest, they kind of made me want to join the Zack bro gang, lol.
And to keep this more on topic... um... clovers. Right. Obviously, the three-leafed clovers symbolise the love triangle. However, they all used to be four-leafed clovers and the missing leaf symbolises Zack. (Yes, I just pulled that one out of thin air, lol.)
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
It's just another side of the "Tifa is lying to Cloud!" bullshit, really. Anything to 'invalidate' her somehow so Aerith can... uh.... thing? And win Cloud's heart.
That was IIRC the usual response.
I was referencing the For the One I love page, trying to remember the exact page number.
Like a lot of AA's stuff, it was doing him more harm than it ever could do his ship any good.
Yeah, she's very clear that what he's looking for isn't her, that she can't help even though she wants to.
I get what you mean, but the ludonarrative events and the canon events are not necessarily the exact same. What happens mechanically and what "actually happens" don't always match up 1:1. This is hypothetical talk anyways.
I hate to say it but I don't think the personality plays into a lot of the Self Insert motivations. I think it's the aesthetic. Hence why there's such a slut-shame vibe from the same people against "the competition."
I have not but like "Holding hands is more serious than kissing" it does not pass the smell test.
It's not strictly speaking future time travel as it is pulling points in space-time together. And I know that probably makes no fucking sense to you. I am used to it.
Like, making a couple get married and have kids is about the only thing more blatant you can do than have a character's literal subconscious spell out his love for a woman to that woman.
He only gets motion sick on vehicles and when he's not driving. As Tifa will be taking him for a ride, that will not be an issue.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Don’t worry, Aerith will gongaga for Zack in Part 3.I think so? But it's okay, they were using it as a motivation for squats, lol. To be honest, they kind of made me want to join the Zack bro gang, lol.
And to keep this more on topic... um... clovers. Right. Obviously, the three-leafed clovers symbolise the love triangle. However, they all used to be four-leafed clovers and the missing leaf symbolises Zack. (Yes, I just pulled that one out of thin air, lol.)
If you google “What do mushrooms represent?”, then you’ll find that it represents spiritual growth, enlightenment, and rebirth.
Gongaga mushrooms, Rebirth, Zack, Aerith becoming a Demi-god. Zerith. Checkmate,
“The mushroom’s life cycle, with its ability to emerge from darkness and decay, represents the cyclical nature of life, death and transformation.”
So mushrooms represent Aerith. LTD finished guys.
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Empyrea
Pro Adventurer
Well, now that my brain is nagging me to look for it, I know who to blame
In all seriousness, though, if I didn't read that fic in MST3K format, I'm almost sure if it would've bothered me more. At least the commentary provided some breaks, if nothing else.
Empyrea
Pro Adventurer
Bloody hell
That face will haunt my nightmares...
The green filter is 100% fitting for it, yup.
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I actually use that image often when speaking to a friend on Discord about Final Fantasy. It’s a great reaction image.Bloody hell
That face will haunt my nightmares...
The green filter is 100% fitting for it, yup.
This is how True Cloud will look next game. He’ll make this face under the Highwind, right after Tifa says “Words aren’t the only way to express your feelings.”
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LunarTarotGirl
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Lunarae
Hi
I promise I'm not ignoring anyone I just always comment before work or after getting home and it's been a day.
About having Tifa and Yuffie should get to play Rosa more I agree. Because it ended up in a half situation where the two girls get unique scenes but only if you pick them. In fact I would have changed it to three different plays. The Dragon King and Loveless are different stories with different characters. Mashing it up like this makes it confusing. But I would have done this: Give Aerith Loveless make her Rosa thats her date. Give Dragon King to Tifa make her another princess could be named Rosa that's her date. Put I Wanna Be Your Canary or something else quirky make Yuffie star in it as yet another princess could be named Rosa too that's her date. This way all three girls can star in a play and have unique scenes. Can be the same dress even just different plays.
As for the other dates the men could watch these plays or be side characters in them and it rotates which. Aerith can still sing at the end of them all.
Alas they didn't do this but it's what I would have done.
As for theories on Rebirth because the play is Loveless Act 2 and 3 but mashed up with the dragon king play I do think it's like a metaphor of the whole thing with Cloud wishing to be a hero and acting out a persona but I don't think it has any hidden reveals about the future.
@eleamaya Did the devs somehow forget Sephiroth exists lol? In CC Genesis sees him Sephiroth and Angeal as the three friends. Though I agree that Zack is the hero as he takes on the mantle the original hero would be Angeal (the successful copy) or Sephiroth the perfect war hero. At least in CC The thing with Rebirth's version is Alphreid is a character from the dragon king play in OG not Loveless and they gave him the lines from Loveless from the final act with the role of the main lead and his lover. So they seem to have made him a lead of the Loveless play here. I think he is technically the hero.
The devs say they made Aerith first because the Cetra was first. The Cetra however was named Tifaret. The Cetra probably went through several drafts in at least two drafts the Sepiroth character who was originally Vincent was her sibling. At some point way later they changed it to the Sephiroth character was her ex, then her first love but unrequited then then they decided to make Zack who was originally Cloud her ex and first love. Yep. Lots of drafts for several characters. The Cetra was also split in two when they decided someone had to die. I basically figure Tifa and Aerith the characters come from breaking up the Cetra into two girls.
And yeah the original Cetra design and childhood friend role was given to Tifa. The Cetra role captured by the Turks was given to Aerith with a different design.
I promise I'm not ignoring anyone I just always comment before work or after getting home and it's been a day.
About having Tifa and Yuffie should get to play Rosa more I agree. Because it ended up in a half situation where the two girls get unique scenes but only if you pick them. In fact I would have changed it to three different plays. The Dragon King and Loveless are different stories with different characters. Mashing it up like this makes it confusing. But I would have done this: Give Aerith Loveless make her Rosa thats her date. Give Dragon King to Tifa make her another princess could be named Rosa that's her date. Put I Wanna Be Your Canary or something else quirky make Yuffie star in it as yet another princess could be named Rosa too that's her date. This way all three girls can star in a play and have unique scenes. Can be the same dress even just different plays.
As for the other dates the men could watch these plays or be side characters in them and it rotates which. Aerith can still sing at the end of them all.
Alas they didn't do this but it's what I would have done.
As for theories on Rebirth because the play is Loveless Act 2 and 3 but mashed up with the dragon king play I do think it's like a metaphor of the whole thing with Cloud wishing to be a hero and acting out a persona but I don't think it has any hidden reveals about the future.
@eleamaya Did the devs somehow forget Sephiroth exists lol? In CC Genesis sees him Sephiroth and Angeal as the three friends. Though I agree that Zack is the hero as he takes on the mantle the original hero would be Angeal (the successful copy) or Sephiroth the perfect war hero. At least in CC The thing with Rebirth's version is Alphreid is a character from the dragon king play in OG not Loveless and they gave him the lines from Loveless from the final act with the role of the main lead and his lover. So they seem to have made him a lead of the Loveless play here. I think he is technically the hero.
The devs say they made Aerith first because the Cetra was first. The Cetra however was named Tifaret. The Cetra probably went through several drafts in at least two drafts the Sepiroth character who was originally Vincent was her sibling. At some point way later they changed it to the Sephiroth character was her ex, then her first love but unrequited then then they decided to make Zack who was originally Cloud her ex and first love. Yep. Lots of drafts for several characters. The Cetra was also split in two when they decided someone had to die. I basically figure Tifa and Aerith the characters come from breaking up the Cetra into two girls.
And yeah the original Cetra design and childhood friend role was given to Tifa. The Cetra role captured by the Turks was given to Aerith with a different design.
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GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Yeah, Aerith was sorta “created first” but she had the design of Tifa at the time. And then yeah, it was moved around when they decided the Cetra would die.
abzy1200
Pro Adventurer
I was just trying to find the exact one that said 'desire', since the word 'desire' is missing from the 'For the one I love' page.
They convey the same message, anyway.
again, what exactly is new here? Still can't get over him thinking that third graders would ever prove his point, always gets a laugh out of me when I think about it.
He also isn't very receptive to her. From what I remember he was quite unwilling to chat with her.
Yeah, I guess. It just kind of makes sense for Aerith to be Rosa, Loveless has always been related to her/Zack.
It's a shame too, since the two women are already pitted against each other by the fandom for other reasons, when there's no need to.
Still waiting on the sources for their 'lovers tie'.
I gave up trying to understand it myself a long time ago, so I'll take your word for it.
Even funnier, Cleriths simultaneously claim that the scene is aromantic, yet fight for Aerith to be involved in it.
Plus, Cloud and Tifa already have an adopted son, so...
She won't put her experience riding Chocobos at the Gold Saucer to waste.
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Sacky
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- SackyBoy
I think its because but i could be wrong Tifa's design is a
Yamato nadeshiko - meaning the "personification of an idealized Japanese woman", or "the epitome of pure, feminine beauty"
GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
I imagine it’s a bit like One Piece where
Sabo is essentially created to replace Ace. Oda was able to kill the latter off and still have a character take essentially that same role