SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
So question? how much Aerith and Zack do we think are going to show up in part 3? like playable, the writers have kinda written themselves into a wall where they have to choose between impact of death for players with Aerith, and building up Zerith interactions for newer players to accept it. I hope they don't keep the reunion between them till the end of the game and have a chapter possibly for them after northern crater. However, i also hope we don't spend too much time on them since other characters like Cid and Vincent and Yuffie need more development than characters who are meant to be dead. I truly cant think what they are going to do with them apart from the obvious reunion, they will most likely have a playable section together maybe? but where and what would the goal be something lifestream-related, possibly in sector 5 world. Any ideas for what Aerith and Zack playable section could be like or do you think we won't even have them meet till the later parts of the game?
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
I think the place of the interlude is on
  • Icicle Area. Aside from the inn where Gast & Ifalna ever live, Icicle are also the area where Zack met Cloud at the first time, where he killed Angeal, even where he killed Essai & Sebastian if the devs might put BC & CC reference
  • Wutai, idk, maybe we also get Banora here
  • After Cloud goes missing in Nothern Crater
  • Rising of the Weapon, before Mideel
  • When the party return to Forgotten City and Nibelheim
  • Ending
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
I think the place of the interlude is on
  • Icicle Area. Aside from the inn where Gast & Ifalna ever live, Icicle are also the area where Zack met Cloud at the first time, where he killed Angeal, even where he killed Essai & Sebastian if the devs might put BC & CC reference
  • Wutai, idk, maybe we also get Banora here
  • After Cloud goes missing in Nothern Crater
  • Rising of the Weapon, before Mideel
  • When the party return to Forgotten City and Nibelheim
  • Ending
any ideas for what the interludes could be?
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
any ideas for what the interludes could be?
I think we’ll get a sentimental reunion right off the bat, but that scene will end hinting that while we do main story plot, she’s catching Zack up to what’s going on/has happened.

I think another big moment is going to be the Lifestream Sequence. While I think the main part of that will be between Tifa and Cloud, I think Aerith and Zack will be doing stuff to keep Sephiroth from corrupting it. I also think this is where they move the cutscene explaining the missing 5 years for Zack and Cloud. It’s something both Tifa and Aerith need to see but for different reasons.
 

AncientGrimoire

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Grim
After finishing Rebirth, I went back to the OG and started playing the game again just after the events at the Forgotten Capital (effectively playing through all of Part 3’s content, I did the same after Remake too, playing after Midgar up to the ending)

Refreshing myself on all the story moments that happen post FC (Part 3 has a LOT of story left to cover :mon: ) there were several moments where I thought it could be appropriate for an Aerith “interlude”, as I don’t think anyone should pretend Aerith isn’t going to be having a significant presence in Part 3, in whatever capacity, alive, Jenova illusion, Obi-Wan Kenobi, what have you.

I agree with @eleamaya that Icicle Inn is likely to be the earliest opportunity for there to be a natural and organic way of having an Aerith interlude, since it’s where she’s from. Even if we don’t have any such interlude, or even this be the place where the party discuss with Cloud what happened at the altar in FC, Aerith’s presence will be strongly felt in Icicle Inn regardless.

I seriously don’t think they are going to make the Gast and Ifalna videos optional viewing this time around, as not only is there important character work in them, they contain a lot of essential lore (stuff we already know by this point in Rebirth, but that’s not to say Part 3 could use this as an opportunity to illuminate things further).

After that I reckon the entire Northern Cave/Crater sequence is another fairly likely scenario for there to be an interlude, Aerith mention, or for this to be where things about her death come to light.

But also there’s a strong chance this sequence hues more closely to the original, where it’s a majorly important scene for Cloud and Tifa, and their past and relationship. This sequence strongly goes hand in hand with the Lifestream sequence later on, neither can really exist without the other, and there’s already been very heavy foreshadowing and sign posting throughout Remake and Rebirth that we are still very much on this path towards it in the story.

Where I actually think a better place for an Aerith interlude to take place is, right after NC.

Tifa wakes up in Junon, and learns she was in a coma for 7 days. I think it would be worth Tifa herself either having a dream/receiving a vision, of Aerith.

As far as I’m concerned given Cloud and Aerith got to say goodbye seven or so different times, in seven or so different ways during the end sequences of Rebirth, a lot of their relationship dynamic has reached its conclusion, especially as far as this portion of Part 3’s story is concerned.

What is left unresolved, by virtue of nobody else actually getting to say goodbye to Aerith, is her relationships with everyone else. The other people she speaks about in her Cosmo Canyon speech, her song at the Gold Saucer, her monologue in the Temple of the Ancients, and in her final prayer at the altar. But you would easily think that, much like a lot of those who ship Clerith would want everyone else to fervently believe, all Aerith cares about and thinks about is Cloud, at the expense of everyone else. Only by the creative choice to have the final scenes be so laser focused on Cloud and his perspective, to the detriment of Aerith’s own character, whose development and journey as a character is suddenly ignored, much like all the other characters she has been shown to care about and love.

So this is a big thing Part 3 needs to fix. It would be furthering this undoing of all of Aerith’s growth, if all her scenes in Part 3 are continuously in Cloud’s orbit. This has nothing to do with shipping, nor Zack or any of the unresolved pieces of the narrative for their relationship.

This is all about her relationships with the other characters. Especially Tifa, who like in the original, you could strongly argue is the one member of the party she actually grows closest to, and forges a deeper connection and level of understanding than she ever has with Cloud, the man whose real persona she never meets.

So Part 3 desperately needs a Tifa and Aerith scene. Whether that’s a resolution scene, or maybe more likely something that facilitates the Lifestream sequence. I don’t believe Aerith will be involved or even mentioned, as I don’t see them changing how that sequence is all about Cloud and Tifa. But I can see, personally want even, Aerith helping Tifa in some way, even if it’s just advice or guidance or something, whatever feels appropriate.

I also see this being a likely case for Cloud, but instead of Aerith, it should be Zack helping him.

Again I’m not arguing this from a shipping perspective, but from one where I’m looking at all the character developments and relationship dynamics that were thoroughly explored in Rebirth, and seeing what I believe is currently lacking.

To me that is a Tifa and Aerith resolution, and now, more scenes with Cloud and Zack. Zack should be the “spirit guide” to Cloud, not Aerith.

Given how much they’ve already revealed and explored about the twists and reveals of both the NC and Lifestream scenes, I think a strong way of helping to make the Lifestream scenes as impactful, asides from keeping it focused on Cloud and Tifa’s relationship, is also understanding what really does remain unresolved with the other characters. And to me that is Tifa and Aerith, and Cloud and Zack.

For Cloud to regain his identity and real self, he needs Tifa’s help. But if he is also to shed his identification with Zack, he himself would have some aspect or part to play in that. Not Aerith. She doesn’t know the real Cloud, again not to stress that point too much. But she does know Tifa, and is in a much better position (and by the need of narrative, a necessity at this point) to help her than she is Cloud.

So to sum up, I think the time Tifa is in a coma for 7 days is a suitable place and break in the story for there to be a key scene with Aerith.

As for where it feels appropriate for there to be the scene where the full acceptance of Aerith’s passing comes to play, not NC, nor the Lifestream, but to me the return to the Forgotten Capital is where I feel it would best suit.

It’s returning to the place of her death. By this point in the original, at Cosmo Canyon, they each all remembered Aerith, so maybe the scenes there in Part 3 could actually be where this moment of acceptance comes into place, thus leading them to return to the FC. Because it’s also here where the full understanding of Holy, Aerith’s prayer, and her sacrifice comes into narrative focus, so again it’s both a natural and organic way for Aerith herself to come into focus too.

As to whether that’s in the form of another interlude with her, it’s all still speculation.

And this is just talking about places in the main narrative where it feels likely for these moments to occur. This isn’t even going into Zack’s ongoing side story that will continuously bleed more I reckon into the main story, and I’m not going to go over the same points I’ve made before about how obviously they’ve made the foreshadowing for Aerith and Zack’s reunion in Part 3.
 
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eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
any ideas for what the interludes could be?
Not a part of this thread, I guess?

This is only if those world didn't vanish. I'm not sure if the only world that exist beside the main one (beagle) was where Zack finds himself in the church, but who knows Cloud's condition in that world is still the same as the conditions before Zack left the house and wavered in which decision he should make. Meanwhile, Aerith is awake.

Maybe Marlene would ask him (and Aerith) about Barret & Tifa again since Zack forgot earlier when he met Biggs. And saving Tifa is the key to save Cloud.

Idk lol.
Cannot speculate this time.

But I imagine the ending would be like this https://thelifestream.net/forums/threads/hopes-for-part-3-story-content.23604/post-951016
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
After finishing Rebirth, I went back to the OG and started playing the game again just after the events at the Forgotten Capital (effectively playing through all of Part 3’s content, I did the same after Remake too, playing after Midgar up to the ending)

Refreshing myself on all the story moments that happen post FC (Part 3 has a LOT of story left to cover :mon: ) there were several moments where I thought it could be appropriate for an Aerith “interlude”, as I don’t think anyone should pretend Aerith isn’t going to be having a significant presence in Part 3, in whatever capacity, alive, Jenova illusion, Obi-Wan Kenobi, what have you.

I agree with @eleamaya that Icicle Inn is likely to be the earliest opportunity for there to be a natural and organic way of having an Aerith interlude, since it’s where she’s from. Even if we don’t have any such interlude, or even this be the place where the party discuss with Cloud what happened at the altar in FC, Aerith’s presence will be strongly felt in Icicle Inn regardless.

I seriously don’t think they are going to make the Gast and Ifalna videos optional viewing this time around, as not only is there important character work in them, they contain a lot of essential lore (stuff we already know by this point in Rebirth, but that’s not to say Part 3 could use this as an opportunity to illuminate things further).

After that I reckon the entire Northern Cave/Crater sequence is another fairly likely scenario for there to be an interlude, Aerith mention, or for this to be where things about her death come to light.

But also there’s a strong chance this sequence hues more closely to the original, where it’s a majorly important scene for Cloud and Tifa, and their past and relationship. This sequence strongly goes hand in hand with the Lifestream sequence later on, neither can really exist without the other, and there’s already been very heavy foreshadowing and sign posting throughout Remake and Rebirth that we are still very much on this path towards it in the story.

Where I actually think a better place for an Aerith interlude to take place is, right after NC.

Tifa wakes up in Junon, and learns she was in a coma for 7 days. I think it would be worth Tifa herself either having a dream/receiving a vision, of Aerith.

As far as I’m concerned given Cloud and Aerith got to say goodbye seven or so different times, in seven or so different ways during the end sequences of Rebirth, a lot of their relationship dynamic has reached its conclusion, especially as far as this portion of Part 3’s story is concerned.

What is left unresolved, by virtue of nobody else actually getting to say goodbye to Aerith, is her relationships with everyone else. The other people she speaks about in her Cosmo Canyon speech, her song at the Gold Saucer, her monologue in the Temple of the Ancients, and in her final prayer at the altar. But you would easily think that, much like a lot of those who ship Clerith would want everyone else to fervently believe, all Aerith cares about and thinks about is Cloud, at the expense of everyone else. Only by the creative choice to have the final scenes be so laser focused on Cloud and his perspective, to the detriment of Aerith’s own character, whose development and journey as a character is suddenly ignored, much like all the other characters she has been shown to care about and love.

So this is a big thing Part 3 needs to fix. It would be furthering this undoing of all of Aerith’s growth, if all her scenes in Part 3 are continuously in Cloud’s orbit. This has nothing to do with shipping, nor Zack or any of the unresolved pieces of the narrative for their relationship.

This is all about her relationships with the other characters. Especially Tifa, who like in the original, you could strongly argue is the one member of the party she actually grows closest to, and forges a deeper connection and level of understanding than she ever has with Cloud, the man whose real persona she never meets.

So Part 3 desperately needs a Tifa and Aerith scene. Whether that’s a resolution scene, or maybe more likely something that facilitates the Lifestream sequence. I don’t believe Aerith will be involved or even mentioned, as I don’t see them changing how that sequence is all about Cloud and Tifa. But I can see, personally want even, Aerith helping Tifa in some way, even if it’s just advice or guidance or something, whatever feels appropriate.

I also see this being a likely case for Cloud, but instead of Aerith, it should be Zack helping him.

Again I’m not arguing this from a shipping perspective, but from one where I’m looking at all the character developments and relationship dynamics that were thoroughly explored in Rebirth, and seeing what I believe is currently lacking.

To me that is a Tifa and Aerith resolution, and now, more scenes with Cloud and Zack. Zack should be the “spirit guide” to Cloud, not Aerith.

Given how much they’ve already revealed and explored about the twists and reveals of both the NC and Lifestream scenes, I think a strong way of helping to make the Lifestream scenes as impactful, asides from keeping it focused on Cloud and Tifa’s relationship, is also understanding what really does remain unresolved with the other characters. And to me that is Tifa and Aerith, and Cloud and Zack.

For Cloud to regain his identity and real self, he needs Tifa’s help. But if he is also to shed his identification with Zack, he himself would have some aspect or part to play in that. Not Aerith. She doesn’t know the real Cloud, again not to stress that point too much. But she does know Tifa, and is in a much better position (and by the need of narrative, a necessity at this point) to help her than she is Cloud.

So to sum up, I think the time Tifa is in a coma for 7 days is a suitable place and break in the story for there to be a key scene with Aerith.

As for where it feels appropriate for there to be the scene where the full acceptance of Aerith’s passing comes to play, not NC, nor the Lifestream, but to me the return to the Forgotten Capital is where I feel it would best suit.

It’s returning to the place of her death. By this point in the original, at Cosmo Canyon, they each all remembered Aerith, so maybe the scenes there in Part 3 could actually be where this moment of acceptance comes into place, thus leading them to return to the FC. Because it’s also here where the full understanding of Holy, Aerith’s prayer, and her sacrifice comes into narrative focus, so again it’s both a natural and organic way for Aerith herself to come into focus too.

As to whether that’s in the form of another interlude with her, it’s all still speculation.

And this is just talking about places in the main narrative where it feels likely for these moments to occur. This isn’t even going into Zack’s ongoing side story that will continuously bleed more I reckon into the main story, and I’m not going to go over the same points I’ve made before about how obviously they’ve made the foreshadowing for Aerith and Zack’s reunion in Part 3.
Yes this sounds perfect one of my disappointments was how for all the Tifa Aerith build up. Aerith lifestream spirit at the end didn't try to comfort Tifa she just touched Nanaki. Having lifestream Aerith appear throughout to Tifa in her dreams would be fantastic, theres foreshadowing for it too she appeared reaching out her hand to Tifa in the Gongaga lifestream. I think we will also in moments of doubt, with Tifa flashback to her conversations we never got to see with Aerith.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Some people are saying Tifa groped Cloud and I want to know when lol.

Edit nevermind it’s that crazy CA lol
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Maybe not.... but the time they decided to kill her, if they didn't split the Cetra to two characters; the outcome would be extremely similar. Who knows they're aware of other media. X manga is commercial success in Japan with over 12 million copies (based on Wiki).
Yeah, I agree, it's just that as far as I am ware, Cetra dying to division of character into Tifa and Aerith was basically immediate.

Ach, yeah. I also read RG Veda, it's brutal too, and the villain has Sephiroth's appearance.
Somehow, I realize it's CLAMP's stories (RG Veda, X, Magic Knight Rayearth) I read in 1995-1998 that make me love tragic plot twist before I was ever hooked by FFVII
CLAMP? Tragic? Never.... [Always]

Earisu though doesn’t work very well with Tifaret being split in 2. And I raise you the existence of the song “Princess Tiffa” I think which Nojima used to listen to in the 80s. And honestly could be Tifa’s starting point lol.
I don't think they literally split the name down the middle, but we do know factually that the proto version was named Tifa, and it's somewhat plausible to go from the "aret" in tifaret to work toward "Aerith" since they had English names for these people in mind from the very start. They could have also changed her name before the split too.

@eleamaya I followed X even earlier lol probably around 2016 as it was released earlier in France.

Coming back to Tifa’s name, here are the lyrics for Princess Tiffa:

View attachment 16661 View attachment 16662
I could see how that could be inspiration for the name as well yes.

I think we’ll get a sentimental reunion right off the bat, but that scene will end hinting that while we do main story plot, she’s catching Zack up to what’s going on/has happened.

I think another big moment is going to be the Lifestream Sequence. While I think the main part of that will be between Tifa and Cloud, I think Aerith and Zack will be doing stuff to keep Sephiroth from corrupting it. I also think this is where they move the cutscene explaining the missing 5 years for Zack and Cloud. It’s something both Tifa and Aerith need to see but for different reasons.
I think the "where have you been these last five years" should be immediately post Lifestream rather than part of it, but I do think it would make an excellent point to transition into a Zack and Aerith segment.

Arguing online with people thinking a kiss means nothing.

View attachment 16664
So the wife lived in Japan for several years as a teacher. Has played the KH series but not FF7. I offhandedly mentioned the "hand holding more serious than a kiss" line to her in a "would you like to hear what my corner of the internet is arguing about" sense and what I got in response was a laugh and a question if Cleriths were shut ins who wanted a pure japanese waifu type. There was incredulity when I explained Clerith skewed primarily female.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Yeah, I agree, it's just that as far as I am ware, Cetra dying to division of character into Tifa and Aerith was basically immediate.


CLAMP? Tragic? Never.... [Always]


I don't think they literally split the name down the middle, but we do know factually that the proto version was named Tifa, and it's somewhat plausible to go from the "aret" in tifaret to work toward "Aerith" since they had English names for these people in mind from the very start. They could have also changed her name before the split too.


I could see how that could be inspiration for the name as well yes.


I think the "where have you been these last five years" should be immediately post Lifestream rather than part of it, but I do think it would make an excellent point to transition into a Zack and Aerith segment.


So the wife lived in Japan for several years as a teacher. Has played the KH series but not FF7. I offhandedly mentioned the "hand holding more serious than a kiss" line to her in a "would you like to hear what my corner of the internet is arguing about" sense and what I got in response was a laugh and a question if Cleriths were shut ins who wanted a pure japanese waifu type. There was incredulity when I explained Clerith skewed primarily female.
Obviously this is probably not true but that does make think that a majority of Clerith shippers are women, predominantly.

I wonder if more men ship Cloti. Dunno.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
@eleamaya wow, X, I hadn’t heard of that one since a long time ago lol. I was following it and dropped it when I heard it wasn’t finished, though for me I did hear that CLAMP put it in pause themselves, not that the publisher did. After that, looking at what they worked on, I kinda thought they did not, in fact, want to come back to it, despite all the rumours around it.


Earisu though doesn’t work very well with Tifaret being split in 2. And I raise you the existence of the song “Princess Tiffa” I think which Nojima used to listen to in the 80s. And honestly could be Tifa’s starting point lol.
So I only noticed when Ryu quoted that but of course it was 1996. Sighhhhh
So how would they explain all the times Aerith grabs his arms (and he’s clearly not comfortable) ?
Don’t you know how holding hands is dirty?! Well when it’s Tifa it’s groping (yes it was about the bedroom Gongaga scene, LOL). After all Aerith did it first in Remake but it’s ok since it’s Aerith.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Obviously this is probably not true but that does make think that a majority of Clerith shippers are women, predominantly.

I wonder if more men ship Cloti. Dunno.
Actually more men are into CA I think, and more women into CT. There were several polls highlighting that.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I would garner that men enjoy Aerith being forward and flirty. While Tifa is an iconic model for many many women, even more so with ToTP where she also showed she was a feminist at heart, not accepting to be a trophy wife - and making Cloud the only one right for her because he was the only one who respected her opinions.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
Interesting. I wonder why.
This is only for toxic cleriths but I think some of it might be holier than thou. Such as for example saying they are better because they are not tempted by the looks of Tifa,
and see Aerith as a angelic, perfect type of character. Instead of a sassy mischevious character. You will notice a lot of toxic male cleriths love to bring up Tifas boobs or the way she dresses
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
This is only for toxic cleriths but I think some of it might be holier than thou. Such as for example saying they are better because they are not tempted by the looks of Tifa,
and see Aerith as a angelic, perfect type of character. Instead of a sassy mischevious character. You will notice a lot of toxic male cleriths love to bring up Tifas boobs or the way she dresses
Feel like… that’s actually the opposite of what they are “trying to be”. In that they are being misogynistic by saying that Tifa is a mysoginistic representation of women.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
Feel like… that’s actually the opposite of what they are “trying to be”. In that they are being misogynistic by saying that Tifa is a mysoginistic representation of women.
Yep the toxic ones are hypocrites its really weird what they say. For example Tifa having a passion for cooking is seen as mysoginistic, When its good for anyone to know how to cook in general.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Yep the toxic ones are hypocrites it’s really weird what they say. For example Tifa having a passion for cooking is seen as mysoginistic, When it’s good for anyone to know how to cook in general.
It also, you know, helps her out with her job. People forget that 7th Heaven also serves food.

Moreover, these are just good qualities to have. Everyone should learn to cook.

Tifa also has a passion for Martial Arts. And being physically fit. Being able to cook well goes hand-in-hand with that. Food is also an important part of being healthy.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Obviously this is probably not true but that does make think that a majority of Clerith shippers are women, predominantly.

I wonder if more men ship Cloti. Dunno.
I don't know. I just know that pro-clerith sites and debaters were primarily women. Men did exist, Drake, AA, etc. but it was fewer than women.
It'd be interesting to properly do a poll to see the split between "I see X pairing as endgame" "I ship X pairing but see pairing Y as endgame" etc. and the age/ sex/ etc. breakdowns of that. Like if it's primarily older verse younger fans. Add a question about what FF7 material they've consumed.

Actually more men are into CA I think, and more women into CT. There were several polls highlighting that.
Do you have links to those polls? Because it runs against my experience in debates where men arguing pro-clerith were less common than women.
 

Ryeleigh

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Rye
It’s unfortunate the women characters get shit on. Aerith is a flirtations backstabbing huzzy and Tifa is a big boobed bimbo somehow.

Wish people who had these toxic views just understand they don’t like the game and move on.
And Cloud's a "two-timing emotional cheater loser" and Zack is an "unimportant NPC war criminal".

To be honest, it's the war criminal remarks that I find the most baffling. No one ever explains what war crimes he allegedly did but people apparently call characters they don't like "war criminals" in other fandoms as well.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Do you have links to those polls? Because it runs against my experience in debates where men arguing pro-clerith were less common than women.
Sorry no, those were done after Remake. But in Twitter there are a lot of guys arguing, though some do pretend to be neutral (but they’re always arguing CA is canon, Tifa bad, the kiss means nothing, are moots with CA and always moving goalposts).

You are right in that there is a CA heart that is mainly composed of women though. I would say that a lot of shippers don’t really take part in the LTD though.
 
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