SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
This would kill the last week they spend before killing Sephiroth. It's something I see more happening towards the end of the game, when they have to think about why they want to fight. We're definitely going to see them all, I think, and we're going to see Cloud and Tifa be like "yeah I can fight because I have you" (and kissing + sex implied). So it would be repetitive to have it beforehand.

And yeah they have to go back to Mideel to get back Cloud and Tifa. We're also definitely going to have whoever is the leader tell how good of a job Cloud did, etc.

What I could see though is Yuffie leaving the band and them going after her once they get Cloud back.

It depends.

When they all leave at the end, we don't have to see what they're doing. So it's not repetitve. You can do their "recruitement" quest with Cloud and Tifa. It's even better because you can live an entire intimate day before the final fight with only Cloud and Tifa while the team is away off-screen.

As for getting back Cloud and Tifa in Mideel... we don't know if we'll find them there this time. Maybe in RE part 3, whales land you somewhere in the world.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
When they all leave at the end, we don't have to see what they're doing. So it's not repetitve.
We don't see them in OG, but they do send them away for this very reason. If you don't do that there is no under the Highwind scene between Cloud and Tifa and you don't see the reason why they keep fighting, even if it's Sephiroth. I do believe we're going to see everyone's reason this time around.

The group remains together because they want to fight for the Planet. It's important that the distinction between them and Tifa is made; Tifa stops everything because she chooses the Hero over the Planet (as opposed to Aerith who chose the Planet over the Hero). If everyone stops then her choice of staying with Cloud loses its weight. It's also part of her own arc where she finally stops putting everyone before her own needs and desire, the others don't have that.
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
We don't see them in OG, but they do send them away for this very reason. If you don't do that there is no under the Highwind scene between Cloud and Tifa and you don't see the reason why they keep fighting, even if it's Sephiroth. I do believe we're going to see everyone's reason this time around.

The group remains together because they want to fight for the Planet. It's important that the distinction between them and Tifa is made; Tifa stops everything because she choose the Hero over the Planet (as opposed to Aerith who chose the Planet over the Hero). If everyone stops then her choice of staying with Cloud loses its weight. It's also part of her own arc where she finally stops putting everyone before her own needs and desire, the others don't have that.
I don’t personally think everyone goes home, but I do think they split off into multiple directions because they can’t agree on what’s the most important thing to do ( do you go to Corel or do you go to Rocket Town or do you go to Wutai or do you go to Fort Condor ). Tifa bows out because, as you say, she makes a “selfish” decision based on her love for Cloud and unwillingness to lose anything else in a fight she’s growing tired of.

But I also think there needs to be a moment where everyone gets on the same page, and I think that moment is the second visit to Forgotten Capital where we get the playback of Aerith’s death and maybe even echoes of her prayer. That refocuses everyone that we’re fighting for the planet.

The scene where they go off to find their own specific reason to fight can still happen, in fact it will need to happen because you’ll know the answer to everyone’s reason by then… save for Cloud’s and Tifa’s. Then we spend extended time with them so it’s clear what they’re fighting for.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
We don't see them in OG, but they do send them away for this very reason. If you don't do that there is no under the Highwind scene between Cloud and Tifa and you don't see the reason why they keep fighting, even if it's Sephiroth. I do believe we're going to see everyone's reason this time around.

The group remains together because they want to fight for the Planet. It's important that the distinction between them and Tifa is made; Tifa stops everything because she chooses the Hero over the Planet (as opposed to Aerith who chose the Planet over the Hero). If everyone stops then her choice of staying with Cloud loses its weight. It's also part of her own arc where she finally stops putting everyone before her own needs and desire, the others don't have that.

You don't understand me. I'm not saying they don't leave at the end.

What I'm saying is the team is splitting when Tifa wants to stay with Cloud. They can totally put them in different place on the world and when you try to get them back in, you have to resolve their problem. It doesn't have to be about their family.

And it doesn't stop you to make them go see their loved ones before the final fight. And during your intimate date with Tifa, you can have interlude where you see what the other are doing.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I don’t personally think everyone goes home, but I do think they split off into multiple directions because they can’t agree on what’s the most important thing to do ( do you go to Corel or do you go to Rocket Town or do you go to Wutai or do you go to Fort Condor ). Tifa bows out because, as you say, she makes a “selfish” decision based on her love for Cloud and unwillingness to lose anything else in a fight she’s growing tired of.

But I also think there needs to be a moment where everyone gets on the same page, and I think that moment is the second visit to Forgotten Capital where we get the playback of Aerith’s death and maybe even echoes of her prayer. That refocuses everyone that we’re fighting for the planet.

The scene where they go off to find their own specific reason to fight can still happen, in fact it will need to happen because you’ll know the answer to everyone’s reason by then… save for Cloud’s and Tifa’s. Then we spend extended time with them so it’s clear what they’re fighting for.
You don't understand me. I'm not saying they don't leave at the end.

What I'm saying is the team is splitting when Tifa wants to stay with Cloud. They can totally put them in different place on the world and when you try to get them back in, you have to resolve their problem. It doesn't have to be about their family.

And it doesn't stop you to make them go see their loved ones before the final fight. And during your intimate date with Tifa, you can have interlude where you see what the other are doing.
I think both of you don't really understand but we're likely to cut corners rather than add too much in the main story in p3. Do you realise how gigantic the story from 2 discs that is left remains to be told? We have so much shit to do and that with a completely redone Wutai plot.

What they are going to do is streamline this to the ground so it makes sense to follow a main storyquest and not be like in the OG and have plenty of threads to follow or not. We're going to have nods to the Compilation, but things like splitting the party after Tifa leaves etc. creates too much confusion when we have the huge materia quest brewing since p2 already, the Weapons awoken, Meteor summoned etc. And with probably new parts for Aerith and Zack too!

I mean really look at what we have to do and what you ask for: that's several hours of gameplay for something that is truly not necessary, especially if you consider that Kitase was ready to cut off Barret's back story in Corel. I'm just saying, but honestly when I make predictions I try to remain reasonable considering that they have to cram the two heavy story discs into one game.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I don’t think the party will split up until after the Midgar raid. I think it will likely be the same in which Tifa stays with Cloud while everyone else goes after the huge materia. I think we will see everyone’s “reason for fighting” scene though with Cloud and Tifa’s being the last.

I definitely think they have quite a bit to get through in Part 3 so I actually expect the pacing to quicken.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
I think both of you don't really understand but we're likely to cut corners rather than add too much in the main story in p3. Do you realise how gigantic the story from 2 discs that is left remains to be told? We have so much shit to do and that with a completely redone Wutai plot.

What they are going to do is streamline this to the ground so it makes sense to follow a main storyquest and not be like in the OG and have plenty of threads to follow or not. We're going to have nods to the Compilation, but things like splitting the party after Tifa leaves etc. creates too much confusion when we have the huge materia quest brewing since p2 already, the Weapons awoken, Meteor summoned etc. And with probably new parts for Aerith and Zack too!

I mean really look at what we have to do and what you ask for: that's several hours of gameplay for something that is truly not necessary, especially if you consider that Kitase was ready to cut off Barret's back story in Corel. I'm just saying, but honestly when I make predictions I try to remain reasonable considering that they have to cram the two heavy story discs into one game.

I'd just like to point out that CD3 only contains the final dungeon.

I'm not saying you're wrong. Sure there is a lot to cover. But for example... we didn't see rocket town. So you can streamline your main quest and do it with this idea of re-assemble the team. Same with Wutai. You can make it work without adding that much. These are places we have to go whatever happens. So we might as well do it the easy way, with Tifa and Cloud picking up everyone along the way.
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
I think both of you don't really understand but we're likely to cut corners rather than add too much in the main story in p3. Do you realise how gigantic the story from 2 discs that is left remains to be told? We have so much shit to do and that with a completely redone Wutai plot.

What they are going to do is streamline this to the ground so it makes sense to follow a main storyquest and not be like in the OG and have plenty of threads to follow or not. We're going to have nods to the Compilation, but things like splitting the party after Tifa leaves etc. creates too much confusion when we have the huge materia quest brewing since p2 already, the Weapons awoken, Meteor summoned etc. And with probably new parts for Aerith and Zack too!

I mean really look at what we have to do and what you ask for: that's several hours of gameplay for something that is truly not necessary, especially if you consider that Kitase was ready to cut off Barret's back story in Corel. I'm just saying, but honestly when I make predictions I try to remain reasonable considering that they have to cram the two heavy story discs into one game.
I’ll be honest, I think the giant materia plot point is the most likely to get streamlined as a whole, especially if we’re keeping Weapon encounters. You’ll still go where you should go, but it’ll be less fetch questy and a more logical point A to B to C with moments to go do overworld stuff in between.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
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Imagine that after the LS, the baby weapons leave you on the coast near Rocket City. You reach the town and bump into Cid, and the game introduces you to his personal quest linked to his character and his town (because since we already know him and we already had the tiny bronco, whatever happens we can't follow OG anymore, all the events in Rocket Town must be different now).

So it's a good way to introduce this place, with a quest linked to it (like every other place in Rebirth)
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I would imagine they’ll probably combine both Rocket Town visits from the OG into one longer visit. It will start to get messy and the pacing might suffer if we suddenly have to go around recruiting everyone again.
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
View attachment 16778

Imagine that after the LS, the baby weapons leave you on the coast near Rocket City. You reach the town and bump into Cid, and the game introduces you to his personal quest linked to his character and his town (because since we already know him and we already had the tiny bronco, whatever happens we can't follow OG anymore, all the events in Rocket Town must be different now).

So it's a good way to introduce this place, with a quest linked to it (like every other place in Rebirth)
It makes way more sense for Rocket Town to be about the HW instead of the Tiny Bronco, holy shit
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
It makes way more sense for Rocket Town to be about the HW instead of the Tiny Bronco, holy shit
But the Highwind is already at Junon. Why would Rufus go there to get it? It would also have to be stolen at Junon too.

Likely, they’ll cut out the stealing of the Tiny Bronco since we already have it. Rufus and the company will show up to launch the rocket with the Huge Materia this time instead. And they’ll combine both Rocket Town visits into one.
 
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Yoru

Pro Adventurer
I'm not saying "my idea is better than yours."

I'm just trying to find a way to make their journey coherent. Because in OG Wutai/Rocket/Midgar/Fort Condor etc. it goes all over the place. So I think this idea of a reunion with the disbanded team works very well with a game built in chapters.

In any case, I liked the idea of having Tifa and Cloud as a duo now that Cloud is himself. Gives us more time to play with him like this. And more interactions with Tifa. And a cool way to show every party member how Cloud has changed. It's stronger if it's one by one than a simple meeting in the HW to say "hi guys I've changed. let's go save the world uwu".
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Yeah for Rocket Town that's basically my stream of thoughts. We'll also discover Cid's grumpy side there, no doubt.

They have to finish Barret's arc and the huge materia in Corel while Tifa and Cloud are in Mideel. It makes so much sense for us to get the doctor from Corel to Mideel for Cloud. And like this it streamlines the huge materia quest in Corel, the doctor's help for Cloud, Mideel all together in a coherent setting. But that means no member goes away, except maybe Yuffie. I imagine Rocket Town will be on the way to Wutai so we'll be able to go to space before going to fetch her or something.
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
I certainly hope Vincent and Cid will be playable in p3! They better be!
I mean, that's a no brainer. Vincent will probably join us first from the get go similarly to Red in Rebirth when we get to Icicle Inn or whatever the first area will be and Cid will officially join later when his arc happens.
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
Yeah for Rocket Town that's basically my stream of thoughts. We'll also discover Cid's grumpy side there, no doubt.

They have to finish Barret's arc and the huge materia in Corel while Tifa and Cloud are in Mideel. It makes so much sense for us to get the doctor from Corel to Mideel for Cloud. And like this it streamlines the huge materia quest in Corel, the doctor's help for Cloud, Mideel all together in a coherent setting. But that means no member goes away, except maybe Yuffie. I imagine Rocket Town will be on the way to Wutai so we'll be able to go to space before going to fetch her or something.
This is kind of what I’m getting at, and it’s my fault for maybe wording it poorly, but do you see how you’re weaving these disjointed plot points together that leaves room for character-driven plot progression?

If Barett recruits the doctor from Corel because Tifa gives him a plate of humble pie, that advances his character and justifies their going back to Mideel in one stroke. I want part 3 to find ways to bring the characters together so it makes sense when Cloud has his “For Frodo” moment at the end.

And if they manage to make Vincent fun to play, then gimme a redo of Dirge as an Integrade dlc lol
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I don't see it because what we need for Barret's story is:

  • Cloud and Tifa in Mideel
  • a full party member of Barret +2 for the main quest (so that means either Yuffie, Vincent, Cait Sith)
  • Cid to pilot the HW (and the whole crew) or at least the Tiny Bronco

You have the space for one party member leaving, literally. That you have to pick amongst Yuffie, Vincent and Cait Sith.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
I think both of you don't really understand but we're likely to cut corners rather than add too much in the main story in p3. Do you realise how gigantic the story from 2 discs that is left remains to be told? We have so much shit to do and that with a completely redone Wutai plot.

What they are going to do is streamline this to the ground so it makes sense to follow a main storyquest and not be like in the OG and have plenty of threads to follow or not. We're going to have nods to the Compilation, but things like splitting the party after Tifa leaves etc. creates too much confusion when we have the huge materia quest brewing since p2 already, the Weapons awoken, Meteor summoned etc. And with probably new parts for Aerith and Zack too!

I mean really look at what we have to do and what you ask for: that's several hours of gameplay for something that is truly not necessary, especially if you consider that Kitase was ready to cut off Barret's back story in Corel. I'm just saying, but honestly when I make predictions I try to remain reasonable considering that they have to cram the two heavy story discs into one game.
We also need to remember one crucial difference between p2 and p3.
Rebirth was the introduction to the worldmap segment of the game. This was the fun adventure segment of the story
And the vast majority of the 100+ hour gametime is in world exploration and discovery, in that adventure.
P3 will most likely have way less time devoted to that, since the majority of the regions of the story have already been discovered.
Not only that but the party itself is now in a more focused part of the arc.


In Lord of the rings terms you start in the shire, then you spread out your story, Frodo goes to mordor, the rest to Rohan, then Rohan AND Gondor, And the paths of the dead, more characters, more story-arc, more time required to flesh them all out, things slow down. In the end though you get the counteroffensive and everything focusses back in on one point, Mordor, and everyone is reunited after completing their arcs.

FFVII, like most stories, started at a very focused point, Midgar and the bombings of the reactors and the fight against Shinra. Then the plot opened up and the possibilities became broader with Sephiroth, Aerith, (and now fate), as we fled Midgar in pursuit of Sephiroth we had a very broad vision of what the future held, stuff had to be handled and figured out. Things had to be explored. We then get the world map, or Rebirths open world in remake. Here we can do all kinds of things tangentially, it all runs parallel as we slowly move towards climax. We're exploring, we're bonding, we're setting up parallel character arcs, all kinds of stuff.

Through all that we get insight into the final objective concerning Sephiroth and the black materia and as certain concepts start popping up in different parts the story slowly starts to converge again and pick up pace. Aeriths death is essentially the end of the part of the story that I call "the halcyon days", where the characters build up the bonds that will then in turn give them the strength to together overcome what they would otherwise not have been able to handle. Think of how Zidane helps everyone throughout FFIX and how that then returns in "you're not alone". Cloud has essentially done that build up in Rebirth, and P3 will be the pay-off.

But the point is that once the story conglomerates it refocuses, with Aeriths death the party is now firmly pointed towards Sephiroth in North crater, the first encounter with the great evil that will result in the heroes failure because he has not yet overcome his inner trial.
After this we'll get a period of re-adjustment, the party goes away, it broadens a bit again so that people can finalize their personal arcs and achieve the narrative state needed to overcome the final trial. Then the story will refocus and move towards the final showdown.

This mean that P3 will have a very similar structure to p1/2 together, it will have way less time to spend on exploration, because the broad part of the story mostly consists of wrapping things up, and by stint of it being story wrap-ups these will be very story focused. All this points towards the same thing imo, WAY less time spent on mini-games and exploration, way more time on 'non-filler" scenes.
This also has implications on things like Affection mechanics btw, great for the broad team building part of "halcyon days", not that fitting for the arrow focused part coming up next.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
You know.... there's a lot about the original that some people seem to have missed.

And I'm really curious to see if the developers will dare to keep it that way (=Aerith really not present for most of the story).
hope she shows up in dreams to talk with tifa at a certain moment. There bond is
the one that needs the most closure now and if with the story going full cloti
showing more of their friendship would be smart
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I'm a fan of the Classy Burn, so don't mistake my surprise for disapproval :awesomonster:
I shant.

Don't mind her, she's just back in the trenches.
SHellshocked because of Shipping.

I mean, if you have the option of being the Carlin and you don't take it, you know you've fucked up.
I always take the option to be the Carlin.

For the edification of all, let's just say this. If you assume a conclusion and seek evidence to prove it/ignore evidence that would disprove it, you are wrong. Even if your assumption is genuinely proven by the narrative, you are wrong. The end.
Yes. Build a hypothesis from observation, and then test it test it test it, discarding whatever does not work.

So... Brutally Cunning then?
Decidedly.

That is good. I need to check the DMG now, are explosions a possible effect from the ol' Bag of Beans?
Not near mine to check.

Let's see, "garbage in garbage out" is well known and broadly accepted. Does it then follow that "same garbage in, even worse garbage out" holds true?
There's definitely something to be said of the garbage growing more fetid over time.

After all these years I'm still mad at The Sci-fi Channel.
Everyone is.

Pfft, you can always find new purpose, and should when your original purpose is wrong.
I know, but they are definitely attached to their current one.

In the context of the LTD respectively, right? Cause in general this just always be happening.
It has been, but on the internet it seems to be happening at an ever increasing pace.

Someone has to clean the pool.
Yeah, it's unhygienic to leave it like that.

That axe-kick she used would turn a trooper's head and torso to jelly, so yeah it's pretty Spiderish.
Now I'm trying to figure which Marvel Heroes best fit the gang.




On the subject of party splitups, If we get it, it might be in a "we need to go after two Magnus Material at once" deal while Cloud and Tifa are both at Mideel. Barret and Cid and Cait Sith go to Corel, while Yuffie, Vincent and Cid go to fight off a Shinra Assault on Ft Condor or the like.

I personally think the Wutai Arc should at least be started while Tifa is the party leader. We need more time for her to lead and for Cloud to be missing so we can miss him mechanically.
 
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